They have locked down Italy completely. Also in Italy inmates have rioted, killed some guards, and taken some as hostages. I think everyone needs to calm down and take a deep breath.
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They have locked down Italy completely. Also in Italy inmates have rioted, killed some guards, and taken some as hostages. I think everyone needs to calm down and take a deep breath.
You can still travel into and out of Italy. It is just only on necessary and unavoidable reasons https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-51810673
"The government has said only those with a valid work or family reason that cannot be postponed will be permitted to travel. Passengers departing on flights, except temporary visitors, will have to justify themselves, as will all those arriving by plane. There are controls at train stations to check temperatures. Cruise ships are forbidden to dock at various ports."
It appears that it may have only been inmates that died as a result of drug overdoses during the riots/protests over the cessation of visiting privileges to the prison. No mention of guard deaths or hostage situations:
"Earlier on Monday, six inmates died amid riots at prisons across the country after authorities suspended all visits as part of attempts to control the spread of the disease. The trouble began in the northern city of Modena after inmates at the Sant'Anna prison were told that all visits had been suspended. Three people were reported to have died at the prison, while a further three died after being transferred from there. It is thought that at least two of the dead lost their lives to drug overdoses after they raided a prison hospital for the heroin substitute methadone."
See how this gets all overblown, even out of a desire to know the most information possible? The headlines make us think that no one can go into or out of Italy - except you can. Massive riot at prison! Oh. Wait, maybe it was just a little riot and some drug overdoses during the confusion.
This stuff is not good, but the manipulation of headline and lede paragraph tone and content can change how it impacts.
Last edited by Mojouw; 03-09-2020 at 07:33 PM.
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https://www.reuters.com/article/us-h...-idUSKBN20W1JP
Inmates, many angered by restrictions on family visits, went on the rampage and started fires from Sunday into Monday, authorities said. In one prison, inmates took guards hostage and in another some escaped.
By Monday afternoon, violence that started at the heart of the coronavirus outbreak in northern Italy had spread south, hitting more than 25 penitentiaries nationwide.
Justice Minister Alfonso Bonafede said the government was open to discussing prison conditions but the rebellions had to stop.
In a sign of the political pressures piling onto his coalition government, the leader of the far-right opposition League, Matteo Salvini, called for an “iron fist” response.
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Dead link. I think its your parenthesis. But you will find an article that I linked talking about what I originally said. Riots, hostages, etc. etc.Originally Posted by Mojouw
Yeah. I did see what you found. It is just confounding and odd that you can't find the same information from source to source. Clear there were riots and hostages were (briefly?) taken.
No matter how hard you look, it just seems like every article is constructed with the conclusion in mind and the content is shaped to fit that.
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I think its time the Pres to address the nation to try and quill this ramping up of fear. Not even sure how it will help though to be honest, our nation is pretty split at the moment, so half will believe him the other half will call him a liar and freak out. Delicate situation that the media could go a long ways in helping, but so far they are only showing horror stories of being trapped on boats and what not.
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Sounds like good news to me.
https://nypost.com/2020/03/08/coronavirus-going-to-hit-its-peak-and-start-falling-sooner-than-you-think/
Nations are closing borders, stocks are plummeting and a New York Times headline reads: “The Coronavirus Has Put the World’s Economy in Survival Mode.” Both political parties have realized the crisis could severely impact the November elections — House, Senate, presidency. And sacré bleu, they’ve even shuttered the Louvre!
Some of these reactions are understand*able, much of it pure hysteria. Meanwhile, the spread of the virus continues to slow.
More than 18,000 Americans have died from this season’s generic flu so far, according to the latest data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. In 2018, the CDC estimated, there were 80,000 flu deaths. That’s against 19 coronavirus deaths so far, from about 470 cases.
Worldwide, there have been about 3,400 coronavirus deaths, out of about 100,000 identified cases. Flu, by comparison, grimly reaps about 291,000 to 646,000 annually.
China is the origin of the virus and still accounts for over 80 percent of cases and deaths. But its cases peaked and began *declining more than a month ago, according to data presented by the Canadian epidemiologist who spearheaded the World Health Organization’s coronavirus mission to China. Fewer than 200 new cases are reported daily, down from a peak of 4,000.
Subsequent countries will follow this same pattern, in what’s called Farr’s Law. First formulated in 1840 and ignored in *every epidemic hysteria since, the law states that epidemics tend to rise and fall in a roughly symmetrical pattern or bell-shaped curve. AIDS, SARS, Ebola — they all followed that pattern. So does seasonal flu each year.
Clearly, flu is vastly more contagious than the new coronavirus, as the WHO has noted. Consider that the first known coronavirus cases date back to early December, and since then, the virus has *afflicted fewer people in total than flu does in a few days. Oh, and why are there no flu quarantines? Because it’s so contagious, it would be impossible.
As for death rates, as I first noted in these pages on Jan. 24, you can’t employ simple math — as everyone is doing — and look at deaths versus cases because those are *reported cases. With both flu and assuredly with coronavirus, the great majority of those infected have symptoms so mild — if any — that they don’t seek medical attention and don’t get counted in the caseload.
Furthermore, those calculating rates *ignore the importance of good health care. Given that the vast majority of cases have occurred in a country with poor health care, that’s going to dramatically exaggerate the death rate.
The rate also varies tremendously according to age, with a Chinese government analysis showing 0.2 percent deaths below age 40 but 14.8 percent above 80. A study published last month in the Journal of the American Medical Association found zero deaths worldwide among children 9 and under. Zero.
Like the flu, the coronavirus is afflicting high-risk groups: the elderly, those with *underlying health conditions like diabetes or heart disease and those with compromised immune systems. Are there exceptions? Sure. But that’s the case with almost every complex biological phenomenon of the kind.
More good news. This month, the Northern Hemisphere, which includes the countries with the most cases, starts heating up. Almost all respiratory viruses hate warm and moist weather. That’s why flu dies out in America every year by May at the latest and probably why Latin America has reported only 25 coronavirus cases. The Philippines, where I live, has about a third of the US population, but it’s so damned hot and humid here, so far we have had no confirmed cases of internal transmission.
The only questions are what the impact will be in the Southern Hemisphere, where far fewer people live, and whether it will *return to the north in the fall.
Still, if you want to try to reduce your *low risk even further, then use what works against flu and colds. Both the surgeon general and head of the CDC have advised we nix the masks; they don’t work. Instead, wash your hands with hot water and soap or an alcohol solution for at least 10 to 20 seconds. That way you won’t spread any germs when you use the TV remote to flip off the latest hysterical news report.
Man, I enjoyed reading that TWICE!
Yeah, this is nuts remember when Ebola was going to take us all out.
"Zeds dead baby, Zeds dead." - Butch
Normally, I would say "Absolutely". But during the press conference where he introduced the VP as the new point person, he spoke for less than a couple of minutes and then just left in the middle. Like he literally, waved goodbye, turned, and walked out of the room. Couldn't be clearer that this President has zero interest in this particular issue. To be clear, that is not to say that his government is doing nothing -- they are doing whatever they can. But I just don't think that Trump has any interest in thinking or talking about this stuff.
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More media hype - Happens every flu season
The NBA, NHL, Major League Baseball and Major League Soccer are closing access to locker rooms and clubhouses to all non-essential personnel in response to the coronavirus crisis, the leagues announced in a joint statement Monday night.
https://triblive.com/sports/nhl-mlb-...navirus-scare/
Renowned epidemiologist Rush Limbaugh assures me they should be more worried about being struck by lightning
https://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2...e-coronavirus/
On the less humorous side:
- Italy will expand the lockdown of the Lombardy region to the entire country, Prime Minister Giuseppe Conte said Monday.
- People throughout the country should not leave their homes other than for work or emergencies, Conte said.
- He added that all public gatherings will be banned and sporting events suspended.
Edit to add: I put up the above about Italy, even though it was posted before, to emphasize the unusualness of it. I suspect, I don't know this, they are trying to stretch out the peak in order to lessen the blow to the health system. If you have X number of cases that need hospitalization it's better to stretch that number out rather than to have it hit the system all at once. I've heard that's something they learned from studying the spanish flu of 1918.
Last edited by tom444; 03-10-2020 at 12:46 AM.
I don't care about football right now. If I'm not laid off in the next 3 weeks, I'll be surprised.
I work in the trade show industry. My company has had 12 shows cancelled in the last 2 weeks. Things are looking very bleak. Total panic over a glorified flu bug. The media should win a prize for carrying out China, Russia amd Saudi A's. unified plan to kill the US economy.
Understandable. I still do because it's an escape.
My brother in law is in the boat business and his company goes to all the boat shows. Not anymore though.
Early aggressive actions are our best hope to limit its spread.
Might seem like overreacting, but it’s not.
NCAA should play the tournament games in empty arenas.
Point #1 nothing is going to limit it's spread, it will just slow it... which is still important.
Point #2, some of it is necessary *and* some of it is overreacting.
I see no reason why they shouldn't do what you suggest.
"You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland
Smart
The Ivy League announced on Tuesday that it would be canceling its conference basketball tournament due to growing fears over the coronavirus, becoming the first NCAA Division I conference to do so.
https://thehill.com/policy/healthcar...all-tournament
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Could have played the tournament without the fans in the stands as the Mid-American Conference is doing this week
https://www.cleveland.com/sports/202...be-issued.html
Doubtful Yale’s concerns will extend to avoiding being exposed to further risk by withdrawing from the NCAA tournament next week for which it now gets the automatic bid
Meanwhile
The Philadelphia Eagles and Pittsburgh Steelers have pulled their coaches off the road for the pro-day circuit, at least temporarily, as a precautionary measure as the country grapples with the spread of the coronavirus, multiple sources told Yahoo Sports.
“It’s true,” one coach texted Yahoo Sports, saying that the situation is “sorta fluid” and that they expect to “get more information as time goes on.”
https://sports.yahoo.com/sources-eag...163011300.html
The pressure on the NCAA and professional sports leagues to hold games without fans escalated Wednesday morning as Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, recommended against large gatherings during a congressional hearing.
“We would recommend that there not be large crowds,” Fauci said. “If that means not having any people in the audience when the NBA plays, so be it. But as a public health official, anything that has large crowds is something that would give a risk to spread.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...LBRYO5OIHMINCM
CBS and NCAA executives presumably not thrilled about this recommendation
Last edited by AtlantaDan; 03-11-2020 at 01:04 PM.
In fairness, they were probably pretty close to playing without any fans in the seats anyway.
This whole thing is just so so stupid. A few hundred people in a nation of 330 million catch an illness, which is not particularly deadly or contagious in the first place, and suddenly the entire country is on a pandemic-level freakout complete with hoarding and quarantines and canceled events and economic paralysis. Are people THAT fucking retarded?
Like, even in China with its higher population density, sanitary problems, and dogshit medical treatment, it topped out at about a 0.001% infection rate, no joke.
In the overall spectrum of dangerous and deadly things, coronavirus is a rounding error. Zero significance. A completely manufactured bogeyman. Worry about something that actually matters, like pneumonia, or dogs.
I'm going up to a big tournament next week in L.A. and I'll be fine. If I somehow do catch the corona virus, I'll almost certainly live. Statistically, by far the most dangerous part will be the drive there and back, followed by the walk from the parking lot.
Jesus goddamn Christ, people. Everyone get some brains and calm the fuck down.
See you Space Cowboy ...
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So Dr. Anthony Fauci needs to get more of his information from NFL message boards and talk radio?
“This is Tony from the NIH - long time listener, first time caller”
Apparently so, if he's one of the ones now advocating disproportionate measures. The medical version of the "mere fan" argument notwithstanding - wasn't this the same exact guy who a couple weeks ago who was urging everyone to calm down and not panic?So Dr. Anthony Fauci needs to get more of his information from NFL message boards and talk radio?
“This is Tony from the NIH - long time listener, first time caller”
Public officials, unfortunately, have a tendency to eventually say and do things to address public sentiment - which in this case, as I said and still maintain, is absolutely fuckin retarded. If that is what he is advocating, then yeah, I probably do know better, sorry.
I am a big believer in statistics when describing things on a large scale. The statistics are clear: This is absolutely nothing. Zero. Zip. If you have a different opinion, you are probably wrong. Not because I said so - because that's simply what the numbers are.
Statistics say what they say, and they don't say what they don't say. There is really no room for bullshit, whether you are a doctor or a scientist or some mere fan on a football message board. The only real question is whether you do or you don't have any concept of scale. Do you know what a billion is, and how it relates to ten, or a hundred, or a thousand, and can you conceptualize that in practical terms, yes/no? That's all this is. Many, if not most, people have a very difficult time adjusting for scale when dealing with very large numbers.
See you Space Cowboy ...
Pull your head out of your ass.This is absolutely nothing. Zero. Zip.
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No shit. As if people dying doesn't matter. Lives are lives and when they are lost they effect someone, so some sensitivity would a good thing right now SR. Don't be that douche on internet forums.
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Well Dr Fauci has managed to infiltrate the daily White House public briefings coordinated by VP Pence (who FWIW I believe is handling those very well since he does not pretend to have his own expertise on the subject and allows those who do to speak instead), so I guess Dr Fauci has conned the White House too
As far as his qualifications go, here is a link to his vitae. Doubtful he is clueless when it comes to statistics
https://www.niaid.nih.gov/about/anthony-s-fauci-md-bio
Since I assume you are not an epidemiologist, although perhaps you are given the confidence with which you are asserting your opinions on this, what are the links to the sources of information you are relying on to reach the conclusion this is much ado about nothing?
I know Rush circulated the more likely to be struck by lightning talking point but am guessing you are not relying on Rush as your source of expertise
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Yikes
The NCAA made the unprecedented decision Wednesday to hold the men's and women's basketball tournaments without fans because of the ongoing coronavirus crisis....
The NCAA announcement came after Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine said he will issue an order that would ban fans from NCAA tournament games in Cleveland and Dayton.
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-ba...nament-go-fans
But the currently irresistible force of shutting down large public gatherings will at some point meet up with the immovable object of nothing being more important to the NFL owners than making money, which includes the NFL draft circus in Vegas in late April
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Yes but what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas so the rest of us are safe.
The smart money, not to mention the facts, would suggest you are the one who should do that.
Yes, a few people died and that's sad. That does not mean that emotion can be interchanged with reality in the physical world, nor that it should be used to justify real-world actions that are literally insane.
I am talking about the public freak-out, and to put it plainly, this is a case where the freaking out itself is hundreds of times worse than the thing that is being freaked out over.
Close to a million people die every day as just the normal daily run rate, and dozens if not hundreds of other diseases are far more deadly, both by infection rate and death rate, and nobody gives a flying fuck about that on a day-to-day basis, because it is not being actively rubbed in their face.
This type of reaction is completely out of proportion, and is entirely self-inflicted. In other words, it makes no sense. When this is all over (which will be as soon as media fatigue over the coronavirus sets in), we will have learned a lot about sociology, and nothing at all about disease prevention.
Well Dr Fauci has managed to infiltrate the daily White House public briefings coordinated by VP Pence (who FWIW I believe is handling those very well since he does not pretend to have his own expertise on the subject and allows those who do to speak instead), so I guess Dr Fauci has conned the White House too
As far as his qualifications go, here is a link to his vitae. Doubtful he is clueless when it comes to statistics
https://www.niaid.nih.gov/about/anthony-s-fauci-md-bio
Since I assume you are not an epidemiologist, although perhaps you are given the confidence with which you are asserting your opinions on this, what are the links to the sources of information you are relying on to reach the conclusion this is much ado about nothing?
I know Rush circulated the more likely to be struck by lightning talking point but am guessing you are not relying on Rush as your source of expertise
Around 700 people per year are struck by lighting in this country, so in that sense, Rush Limbaugh is absolutely right, although I'm guessing he must have put his own shock-jock spin on it. I don't pay attention to him, so I really don't know. You are also as or more likely to be killed by dogs, by horses, by cows, or by falling down an elevator shaft in this country than to die from the virus.
All of the statistics to which I am referring or have been referring are easy to look up, so I assume that if people actually doubt them, they will either spend a few seconds to verify them on their own, or else that they are lazy or stupid. Basically just population numbers and infection/death counts. This is not rocket science that requires an advanced degree.
Speaking of that, by your line of reasoning, no one's opinion on the subject has any value if they are not an epidemiologist, which would also include you. So that doesn't really do anything.
Anyway, as I said, this is a lesson in sociology, not epidemiology. From a public official's point of view, you can say, "We took drastic action, and no epidemic occurred, because no epidemic was going to occur anyway," and people won't hear the last part.
The Spanish Flu that infected half a billion people was an epidemic. The Black Death that reduced the world's population by almost a third was an epidemic. This is like 100,000 people infected worldwide and a few hundred, maybe a thousand in this country, the overwhelming majority of whom survive. Not even a blip. A big nothing. More people get measles. 10 times more people get whooping cough every year in California alone, because they are too stupid to get their kids vaccinated. People need to get a grip and figure out just how incredibly huge of a number a million is, let alone a billion.
See you Space Cowboy ...
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Dying from an accident, act of God, or natural causes should ALL have a higher percentage chance than a virus due to the availability and ease of simple personal hygiene in the US. Taking precautions to not spread a virus is a smart thing to do. The 'over-acting' of many in the headlines is just not common sense actions though. Why not take these same precautions every year during flu season? I get the flu shot but that doesn't cover every strain and that virus is constantly mutating in new ones. I would say take whatever precautions makes you feel safe for you and your families. I don't think there is such a thing as over-protecting but wrapping your loved ones in toilet paper may be a touch much.
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Oh so it is just your opinion on this being overblown with no backup from any recognized experts?
No - but just as Mike Tomlin's views on pass defense have greater value than those held by you or me, although by reading this board I know not all share that view, the opinions of Dr Fauci and other epidemiolgists on the significance of novel coronavirus also have greater value than those held by you or me.Speaking of that, by your line of reasoning, no one's opinion on the subject has any value if they are not an epidemiologist, which would also include you. So that doesn't really do anything.
Just because anyone with an online connection can share their views on any subject does not mean all views on all subjects have equal value. It is called expertise, although maybe my view on that is just selling out to the elites rather than adopting "just plain common sense" views based on who in the world knows what sources of information or what entitlement to a presumption of credibility.
All the money has already been put down and it's all on my side. And I should add, unfortunately.
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