Staff upgrades?

[Mojouw]

For me the biggest 2019 coaching indictment is whoever decided to just stick with Switzer at anything. The switch to DJ and White was an instant upgrade to both return units. This type of stubbornness and refusal to "churn" the bottom of the roster has been a constant source of frustration for me over the Tomlin era. This year injuries forced them to do it and they may have found solid contributors in Whyte (sp?) and Cain and may have identified returners moving forward.

Imagine if they had been making moves across the bottom 3 players on the roster constantly over the past 4 years? Might there be better marginal depth at positions like safety, WR, and TE?

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Read this article. You will see that Jackson pre draft says #2 was too high to take Wentz, but after he was fired from the Browns, he blames the browns for trading out of the #2 spot and not getting Wentz. Hue Jackson is an a$$clown.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/h...wentz-at-no-2/

Agreed. If I owned an NFL team I wouldn't pay Hue Jackson with some other owner's money.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

I think the idea of getting some good coaches is one that everyone endorses. Where to find them is the thing. I will throw out that extensive NFL experience either playing or coaching is not always required.

What if Sarrett is the next Dante Scarnecchia -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dante_Scarnecchia -- I totally doubt it but just because he played only at Kent State doesn't mean he fundamentally isn't qualified to coach the position at a high level.

Matt Nagy was recently anointed a "Qb whisperer" a few years back and he doesn't exactly have a deep NFL record -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Nagy

Do I think that Sarrett and Skippy the Duke Intern QB video guy are great at their jobs? Most likely not. Do I think that their lack of NFL experience by definition means they won't be good coaches? Also no.

Part of being a good coach is being able to command the attention and respect of the guys you are coaching. Another is being able to relate the "unknown" of a position or situation to the "known" of what the player already understands.

Its not a prerequisite to have played football or pro football in order to be a good coach. I do think it helps to establish credibility and respect of your knowledge if you actually did what you are coaching.

Would I want to be lead into battle by a Sgt. that has read a lot about military strategy and tactics, but never actually been in battle before? What personal experience could that leader offer that would benefit, which wasn't put in a text book? I think some current players may look at their position coaches in the same manner.

[Born2Steel]

Try a quick search on a few topics about Hue Jackson and let me know if you still would want him at a Steeler coach. The topic are:

-Hue Jackson blames Raiders players for loss to Chargers and missing playoffs
-Hue Jackson blames Browns for not drafting Wentz, Desean Watson, Mahomes. (for bonus search, Michael Silver report contradicts Jacksons claim- Hue wanted Malik Hooker)
-Hue Jackson tells owner Jimmy Haslam to "get the Fu@k out of my office"
- Baker Mayfield comments on Hue Jackson
-Hue Jackson great QB's developed (list includes Patrick Ramsey, Jason Campbell, Joe Flacco, Joey Harrington...)
-Hue Jackson trades 1st and 2nd round picks for Carson Palmer.

You may still like him for OC, but I see the historical evidence pointing to a guy that screws up, blames others (in spectacular fashion I might add) for his mistakes, avoids taking responsibility for his actions and uses revisionist history to mask his faults.

In short, I think he is a douchebag that should never set foot in a Steelers organization.

This is a pretty funny post. I’m not married to the plan of hiring Hue as OC but the thread specifically reads “Staff Upgrades”. Like the guy or not Hue Jackson would be an upgrade as OC, IMO. At least I propose a name that may actually be obtainable.

Hue actually had a lot of success as the OC at several stops btw. Never made it as a HC, not even close.

If you ever met Jimmy Haslam in person you would probably tell him to get the “F” out of your office too. Just saying.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

This is a pretty funny post. I’m not married to the plan of hiring Hue as OC but the thread specifically reads “Staff Upgrades”. Like the guy or not Hue Jackson would be an upgrade as OC, IMO. At least I propose a name that may actually be obtainable.

Hue actually had a lot of success as the OC at several stops btw. Never made it as a HC, not even close.

If you ever met Jimmy Haslam in person you would probably tell him to get the “F” out of your office too. Just saying.

OK, we can maybe agree that Jackson would be an upgrade, but IMO that is like my uncle selling his AMC Pacer and getting a Ford Pinto that caught fire on him.

I'm saying that if you want to get to where you are going, you put good people with the right attitude and skills on the bus with you. IMO, Jackson isn't that guy and isn't worth having in the building.

I'll keep your advise in mind if I ever meet Jimmy Haslam

[Rotorhead]

In reference to McDaniels in denver, the issue was he was HC and GM, the GM addition put him in over his head and the dumpster fire ensued. Had he had a competent GM he probably would have probably been ok as just a HC.

[Mojouw]

Part of being a good coach is being able to command the attention and respect of the guys you are coaching. Another is being able to relate the "unknown" of a position or situation to the "known" of what the player already understands.

Its not a prerequisite to have played football or pro football in order to be a good coach. I do think it helps to establish credibility and respect of your knowledge if you actually did what you are coaching.

Would I want to be lead into battle by a Sgt. that has read a lot about military strategy and tactics, but never actually been in battle before? What personal experience could that leader offer that would benefit, which wasn't put in a text book? I think some current players may look at their position coaches in the same manner.

All very true. The next time I coach football would be the first time, so admittedly I got no idea. But I think a good coach is a good coach. Different sport, but some of the best baseball managers never got out of the minors.


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[Shoes]

In reference to McDaniels in denver, the issue was he was HC and GM, the GM addition put him in over his head and the dumpster fire ensued. Had he had a competent GM he probably would have probably been ok as just a HC.

We can trade Fichtner to the pats for McDaniels. I'm sure Bill would be all over that.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

All very true. The next time I coach football would be the first time, so admittedly I got no idea. But I think a good coach is a good coach. Different sport, but some of the best baseball managers never got out of the minors.


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Remember in Super Bowl XL where Bettis tells FWP at halftime to start the run looking wide, then stick his foot and get up in the hole quick? Bettis explains how to stretch out the defenders to the sideline and then hit the hole fast so the OLB and DE might not be able to get back inside to him. That is referred to as "Coaching the Why".

Sometimes can be difficult for a guy like Matt Symmes to tell Mason Rudolph to stay on the balls of his feet and move them towards his receivers as he goes thru his progressions, because it will have a solid throwing platform...when he has never done that himself, let alone with Aaron Donald rushing the A gap between Foster and Pouncey. Symmes can only coach the why from what he has read or seen David Cutcliffe coach QB's.

That may not be as convincing as Tom Clements, Alex Van Pelt, Jon Kitna or Mike Shula coaching the QB on skills. Sure there are guys that never played QB who are coaching NFL QB's and guys that haven't played in the NFL, but they generally played the game and have a solid coaching resume. the Ravens QB coach is a former WR, but coached with Andy Reid, Pat Shurmur and Doug Pedersen before getting this gig.

[Born2Steel]

OK, we can maybe agree that Jackson would be an upgrade, but IMO that is like my uncle selling his AMC Pacer and getting a Ford Pinto that caught fire on him.

I'm saying that if you want to get to where you are going, you put good people with the right attitude and skills on the bus with you. IMO, Jackson isn't that guy and isn't worth having in the building.

I'll keep your advise in mind if I ever meet Jimmy Haslam

Personal opinions aside where do you see Pinto fire shortcomings as an OC? Was it the Bobby Petrino Falcons? Because every other OC stop he did better than the guy before him and coached some pretty good offenses in Cincy, Baltimore, and Oakland. He was OC under Spurrier but what does that really even mean with Spurrier? I will be fine once Ben returns and basically starts calling his own plays anyway.

ST coordinators? Anyone?

[86WARD]

I’d like to first and foremost seas Smith gone. After that, I’d like to see a QB Coach and a WR Coach added to the roster. Obviously, Smith’s replacement as well.

[NCSteeler]

I could give a shit if he's ever played can he coach? Can he figure out how to make players better?

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[NCSteeler]

I think the idea of getting some good coaches is one that everyone endorses. Where to find them is the thing. I will throw out that extensive NFL experience either playing or coaching is not always required.

What if Sarrett is the next Dante Scarnecchia -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dante_Scarnecchia -- I totally doubt it but just because he played only at Kent State doesn't mean he fundamentally isn't qualified to coach the position at a high level.

Matt Nagy was recently anointed a "Qb whisperer" a few years back and he doesn't exactly have a deep NFL record -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Nagy

Do I think that Sarrett and Skippy the Duke Intern QB video guy are great at their jobs? Most likely not. Do I think that their lack of NFL experience by definition means they won't be good coaches? Also no.

Why does it always come back to "who what name". Nobody knew these great coaches when they got thier chance. Its a lousy and old argument. Tomlin was barely anyone. When we hired him. I'd sign him to a nice extension after this season , but I'd tell him to quit being so loyal to his assistant

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[NCSteeler]

For me the biggest 2019 coaching indictment is whoever decided to just stick with Switzer at anything. The switch to DJ and White was an instant upgrade to both return units. This type of stubbornness and refusal to "churn" the bottom of the roster has been a constant source of frustration for me over the Tomlin era. This year injuries forced them to do it and they may have found solid contributors in Whyte (sp?) and Cain and may have identified returners moving forward.

Imagine if they had been making moves across the bottom 3 players on the roster constantly over the past 4 years? Might there be better marginal depth at positions like safety, WR, and TE?

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Agreed. If I owned an NFL team I wouldn't pay Hue Jackson with some other owner's money.

No doubt Tomlins biggest failure is his loyalty. To scrubs and assistant coaches

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[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Personal opinions aside where do you see Pinto fire shortcomings as an OC? Was it the Bobby Petrino Falcons? Because every other OC stop he did better than the guy before him and coached some pretty good offenses in Cincy, Baltimore, and Oakland. He was OC under Spurrier but what does that really even mean with Spurrier? I will be fine once Ben returns and basically starts calling his own plays anyway.

ST coordinators? Anyone?

I think Petrino is a good example of a guy that any team with the stability of coaching and ethics of the organization would not want any part of. Didn't he leave notes on the stools of players in the locker room that he was quitting? Then goes to Arkansas where he dates a coed and helps her rise to a good position in the athletics department until he crashes his motorcycle with her on it. His wife reportedly wasn't a fan.

[Steeldude]

HC, OC, OL, DC

[st33lersguy]

Fichtner needs to go, Sarrett needs to go, Smith definitely needs to go.

[Born2Steel]

I think Petrino is a good example of a guy that any team with the stability of coaching and ethics of the organization would not want any part of. Didn't he leave notes on the stools of players in the locker room that he was quitting? Then goes to Arkansas where he dates a coed and helps her rise to a good position in the athletics department until he crashes his motorcycle with her on it. His wife reportedly wasn't a fan.

That's another funny story. Petrino never crashed any motorcycle. That coed's boyfriend beat the crap out of him. There were people that lost jobs over that coverup as well. He's another example of a very fine human being. ...Wonder if Petrino would make a good NFL OC....???

[teegre]

I’m not saying that Sarrett is/isn’t any good. But, to say that because “he never played in the NFL” it somehow makes him unable to coach. I have three responses to that:

3. Mike Tomlin
2. John Harbaugh
1. Bill Belichick

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

I’m not saying that Sarrett is/isn’t any good. But, to say that because “he never played in the NFL” it somehow makes him unable to coach. I have three responses to that:

3. Mike Tomlin
2. John Harbaugh
1. Bill Belichick

First of all, where was it said that not playing in the NFL makes Sarrett "unable to coach"? I don't recall that anywhere in the thread.

The point is that players may not respect a position coach who hasn't demonstrated they can effectively coach technique and nuances of a position, if they haven't played the position at a high level, or coached it at a high level with success.

3.Tomlin earned respect of players as a DB coach in Tampa and as the DC in Minnesota.
2. Harbaugh earned respect of players over a 13 year college coaching career, then as an assistant in Philly. He was a candidate as Western Michigan HC job
1. Bill Belicheck earned respect of players from his years with the Giants as an assistant and D Coordinator of some great defensive teams with the Giants.

My question is : What has Shaun Sarrett done as a player or proven as a coach that somebody like Zach Banner would listen to or learn from? Let alone all pro O linemen like Pouncey or DeCastro?

Next questions: Why does this year Steelers O line have communication breakdowns in pass protections and blitz pickups? Why does this years O line look like they stop playing before the whistle has blown? Why does Al Villenueva have a less controlled kick step and punch outside the frame instead of inside in pass protections?...…………….these are all rather fundamental parts of playing O line that should not be sloppy. They are detail and effort issues. Why are Steelers O linemen less on their details this season?

[86WARD]

This years O-Line woes were mostly mental, communication issues or just flat out poor technique. I’m not sure anyone, maybe AV a few times, got over powered physically on a regular basis...I could be wrong though.

[Born2Steel]

OL woes were the same as everywhere else on the offense. Starters had injuries and backups played like backups when in. AV, Pouncey and Foster nursed nagging injuries all season. These were mentioned often throughout the season in post game pressers and articles. Behind AV there is Chuks and Gray. Feiler filled in at RT until he had to fill in at LG which put Banner at RT. Finney backed up Pouncey and played a third of the snaps this year. Honestly, go easy on the panic button guys. Last season it was this defense needs a complete overhaul...Bud needs to go now...the FO has lost it's touch to find/keep talent...etc.

This offense lost Ben and had backups Rudolph and Duck trading out starts whether due to injury or suspension. The OL went through injuries and lineup changes constantly, the RB situation was in constant flux, and the receiving corps(WRs/TEs) is young and playing with new QBs nearly every couple of weeks. Still this team just missed the playoffs by 1 game. Come on in off that ledge.

Boz was back to his old self again kicking straight and true. Ben IS coming back next season. I like the sound of that with DJ and Wash outside and JuJu in the slot. Conner won't have to run head first into 8 man fronts with a downfield threat nearly as often, and Snell was starting to become a more brutish runner at the end of the season as well. Samuels the Swiss Army Knife should be back at full strength. McDonald/Vannett/Gentry, should have at least 2of3 back for Ben to throw to in 2020.

Keep in mind this defense that allowed just shy of 19 points per game is still young and learning to play together. Can a healthy Big Ben leading this healthy offense and with help of this stingy defense win it all in 2020? Time will tell but I do like the odds. Pull those hands and feet back into the vehicle please, this ride is not over just yet.

[teegre]

First of all, where was it said that not playing in the NFL makes Sarrett "unable to coach"? I don't recall that anywhere in the thread.

The point is that players may not respect a position coach who hasn't demonstrated they can effectively coach technique and nuances of a position, if they haven't played the position at a high level, or coached it at a high level with success.

Okay. Semantics... “respect”

How does one get experience as an NFL coach prior to being in the NFL? There’s a starting point for everyone.

For example, Mike Tomlin was at WMI, Memphis, Arkansas St, and Cincinnati prior to becoming a coach for the Buccaneers. Should those players have shown him no respect since he had not played in the NFL (and had not yet been an NFL coach)?

Likewise, John Harbaugh was at Western Michigan, Pitt, Morehead St, and Cincinnati prior to becoming a coach for the Eagles. Should those players have shown him no respect since he had not played in the NFL (and had not yet been an NFL coach)?

Bill Belichick entered the NFL right out of college. He didn’t even have any college experience. Should those players have shown him no respect since he had not played in the NFL (and had not yet been an NFL coach)?

Again, I’m not saying Sarrett is good, bad, or plaid. I’m saying to assert that NFL players shouldn’t respect him simply because he never played in the NFL... is presumptuous. Because, the top three (IMO) current coaches in the NFL were once in the same position.

[DesertSteel]

I think playing at the college level is sufficient experience. Stopping there usually means you didn’t have the physical talent to play in the NFL. And that doesn’t hinder someone from being a coach in the NFL. In rare cases, someone may be able to coach without ever playing beyond High School. But it would take a commanding personality IMO.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Again, I’m not saying Sarrett is good, bad, or plaid. I’m saying to assert that NFL players shouldn’t respect him simply because he never played in the NFL... is presumptuous. Because, the top three (IMO) current coaches in the NFL were once in the same position.

Look at the words of mine that you quoted. I said they "may not respect a position coach...". That isn't an "assertion" that you suggest I am making. Its an educated guess and may be in line with a "presumption" of which you are stating I am presumptuous.

Its a possible theory that I have that the reason we see the same Steelers starting O linemen as 2018 season make fundamental mistakes, appear to not play to the whistle and routinely miss assignments on blitz pickup in 2019 is a direct reflection of how they practice and that is based upon a possibility that they don't really think the guy coaching them knows WTF he is taking about.

So Ben didn't like Todd Haley like he did Arians and didn't respect his coaching...and tuned him out. That is a common narrative. Maybe the Steelers O line doesn't respect the blocking schemes and protections that Sarrett draws up and tune him out. Maybe that is regardless of the level of success he had as an O lineman in his playing days, or maybe they would give a guy like Marc Columbo more bandwidth because he played 11 seasons in the NFL.

My opinion is that if the Steelers hired Marc Columbo who played 11 years in the NFL and had 2 seasons as an assistant O line coach, the players would relate and listen to him more intently than Shaun Sarrett who had 5 years as an asst. O line coach to Munchak. I think a guy that played 11 seasons can relate better to NFL O linemen because he actually had to block guys like Dwight Freeney, as opposed to a guy that only watched guys like that on tape.

[teegre]

Look at the words of mine that you quoted. I said they "may not respect a position coach...". That isn't an "assertion" that you suggest I am making. Its an educated guess and may be in line with a "presumption" of which you are stating I am presumptuous.

Its a possible theory that I have that the reason we see the same Steelers starting O linemen as 2018 season make fundamental mistakes, appear to not play to the whistle and routinely miss assignments on blitz pickup in 2019 is a direct reflection of how they practice and that is based upon a possibility that they don't really think the guy coaching them knows WTF he is taking about.

So Ben didn't like Todd Haley like he did Arians and didn't respect his coaching...and tuned him out. That is a common narrative. Maybe the Steelers O line doesn't respect the blocking schemes and protections that Sarrett draws up and tune him out. Maybe that is regardless of the level of success he had as an O lineman in his playing days, or maybe they would give a guy like Marc Columbo more bandwidth because he played 11 seasons in the NFL.

My opinion is that if the Steelers hired Marc Columbo who played 11 years in the NFL and had 2 seasons as an assistant O line coach, the players would relate and listen to him more intently than Shaun Sarrett who had 5 years as an asst. O line coach to Munchak. I think a guy that played 11 seasons can relate better to NFL O linemen because he actually had to block guys like Dwight Freeney, as opposed to a guy that only watched guys like that on tape.

Just because a person can do/has done something does not mean that they can teach/coach someone else how to do something.

SUMMATION:
Maybe it’s a simple as the fact that Sarrett can’t teach/can’t coach very well... and, it has nothing to do with whether or not he played in the NFL.

[Born2Steel]

Just because a person can do/has done something does not mean that they can teach/coach someone else how to do something.

SUMMATION:
Maybe it’s a simple as the fact that Sarrett can’t teach/can’t coach very well... and, it has nothing to do with whether or not he played in the NFL.

My wife hated being a student. Couldn't wait to graduate and get out of high school. She forced herself to endure college and get her degree. Today she teaches, loves it, and is a great teacher. Students adore her and she them. It's not about where you start.

[teegre]

My wife hated being a student. Couldn't wait to graduate and get out of high school. She forced herself to endure college and get her degree. Today she teaches, loves it, and is a great teacher. Students adore her and she them. It's not about where you start.

Exactly

Some of the best teachers/educator/coaches were not the ones who shined the brightest, but the ones who had to struggle in order to make it. The ones who struggled know what the pitfalls are, and more importantly, how to get back up on the horse.

One of the local San Diego County math gurus is not a great math instructor because she was good at math; quite the opposite: she struggled at math, and thus, she learned how to teach others how to get over (around?) those hurdles.

btw: The "coaching" method is the newest shiniest method in education... in turn, there are staff meetings infused with references to Lombardi (et al). LOL

[Mojouw]

One: If players are tuning out a coach or instructor because they do not believe they have the required "cred" to be listened to BUT that coach or instructor is actually correct in what they are saying -- then it is a player problem and not a coach or instructor problem. In that situation, the players need to have their asses handed to them by the head coach. Frequent and public shaming in team wide film sessions might be a start.

Two: Greatness often struggles to impart to others how they were great. Michael Jordan destroying Kwame Brown is the most extreme example. But there are many others. Like could you imagine Favre as a QB coach? Everything he did was wrong, but he made it work. Credentials and experience are one part of teaching/instruction/coaching and the other part is actually having something useful to say.

I think the question, as it should be every off-season, for the Steelers is what did each member of the staff have to say? Was it useful/correct? If not, why? Can it be salvaged? If not, who can we get in here that can do it better?

[AtlantaDan]

I think the question, as it should be every off-season, for the Steelers is what did each member of the staff have to say? Was it useful/correct? If not, why? Can it be salvaged? If not, who can we get in here that can do it better?

I see a big problem with the staff on offense being the lack of outside hires along with, on both offense and defense, the only coach I recall another team has attempted to hire away in recent years was Munchak. So you get internal promotions of coaches on a staff that the rest of the league apparently does not regard to be brimming over with talent that other teams want to hire away.

I do not think it is coincidental the defense has improved since the outside coaching hires of Austin and Dunbar on defense.

But self-criticism will not get you very far if a staff has been inside the same system for a long time.

[Mojouw]

I see a big problem with the staff on offense being the lack of outside hires along with, on both offense and defense, the only coach I recall another team has attempted to hire away in recent years was Munchak. So you get internal promotions of coaches on a staff that the rest of the league apparently does not regard to be brimming over with talent that other teams want to hire away.

I do not think it is coincidental the defense has improved since the outside coaching hires of Austin and Dunbar on defense.

But self-criticism will not get you very far if a staff has been inside the same system for a long time.

Yeah. I think that is an excellent criticism. I have come to believe that the staff is too small overall and a bit too "old". And I think you are saying the same thing, but in a better way.

I really wish that some younger coaches from outside the organization would be brought in to inject new ideas and fresh perspectives on things.

For instance, a QB coach, a WR coach, or a "offensive quality control assistant" (or whatever other nonsense title you want to hand out - all teams do it) that comes out of one of the big brand air raid college schools might be REALLY useful to an NFL team that currently employs 2 back-up QBs from that offensive system that fell flat when asked to run an NFL scheme. And, to my eye, most of the problem was from the neck up. Couple that with the fact that the majority of draft eligible QBs every year are coming from spread and/or air raid schools and the lack of a coach on staff with direct experience working in that system is really negligent.

On the opposite side of the ball, no one with recent NCAA experience defending spread and RPO concepts is also a dumb idea.