Game balls and goats vs the Jest

[Mojouw]

We were able to acquire Batch and Grad and fit them into our cap, two starters with their former clubs

I don’t buy the notion we have to resort to relying on two rookies :a mid draft pick and an undrafted rook

Both of those guys were pretty bad when asked to start. I think Lefty might’ve been the best “we could play a season with him starting” in the Roethlisberger era.

I just don’t think there are many, If any, NFL teams that have a 15 game playoff winning caliber backup just lying around the roster. It’s hard enough to find 20 of those guys.

Could’ve it have been better? Shmaybe? But almost any Cinderella story backup is going to turn into a pumpkin at some point.

This is not a defense of Hosges and Rudolph. They kinda suck. But in an era of capped out rosters, it's hard to pay your starter 25-30 million and then turn around and hand a guy you hope never plays $4-6 million, which is what Fitz, Hoyer, Henne, Bridgewater, etc are getting.

20+% of your cap at the QB position is a lot. Ben at 20 some, Rudolph at 4, and then, say, Hoyer at 6 means you gotta say goodbye to someone like Nelson or Barron.

I realize Barron can be parted with easily, but what if Denver doesn't want the trade? Now it's VW and what at ILB?

Roster construction is really hard with the cap. Gotta gamble somewhere. Based on the percentages, backup QB is as good a place as any.

[fansince'76]

I think Lefty might’ve been the best “we could play a season with him starting” in the Roethlisberger era.

On the very few occasions he didn't tear an ACL tripping over a Gatorade bucket or suffer some other season-ending injury while trying to get off the sideline and onto the field.

Talk about injury-prone...

[Mojouw]

On the very few occasions he didn't tear an ACL tripping over a Gatorade bucket or suffer some other season-ending injury while trying to get off the sideline and onto the field.

Talk about injury-prone...

Very true. Still a rare back up with a legitimate starter skills.

Although he'd have to just live in the blue tent nowadays. Maybe with Duce?

[Steeler-in-west]

Both of those guys were pretty bad when asked to start. I think Lefty might’ve been the best “we could play a season with him starting” in the Roethlisberger era.

I just don’t think there are many, If any, NFL teams that have a 15 game playoff winning caliber backup just lying around the roster. It’s hard enough to find 20 of those guys.

Could’ve it have been better? Shmaybe? But almost any Cinderella story backup is going to turn into a pumpkin at some point.

This is not a defense of Hosges and Rudolph. They kinda suck. But in an era of capped out rosters, it's hard to pay your starter 25-30 million and then turn around and hand a guy you hope never plays $4-6 million, which is what Fitz, Hoyer, Henne, Bridgewater, etc are getting.

20+% of your cap at the QB position is a lot. Ben at 20 some, Rudolph at 4, and then, say, Hoyer at 6 means you gotta say goodbye to someone like Nelson or Barron.

I realize Barron can be parted with easily, but what if Denver doesn't want the trade? Now it's VW and what at ILB?

Roster construction is really hard with the cap. Gotta gamble somewhere. Based on the percentages, backup QB is as good a place as any.

both Batch and Grad were much better than what we had this year, we’re not asking for the backup to take us to the super bowl, but we also don’t want them to have interception meltdowns and lose their cool, you want competent game managers - we didn’t get that.

And Why only bring up a trade scenario? What about free agency?, there are always a number of backups Qb’s looking for a new deal,

[Mojouw]

both Batch and Grad were much better than what we had this year, we’re not asking for the backup to take us to the super bowl, but we also don’t want them to have interception meltdowns and lose their cool, you want competent game managers - we didn’t get that.

And Why only bring up a trade scenario? What about free agency?, there are always a number of backups Qb’s looking for a new deal,

Trade for Bush that makes Barron's cap $$$ available to pay a QB.

I remember batch and gradkowsi struggling to complete passes and score points. But I remember stuff wrong all the time.

[Steeler-in-west]

Trade for Bush that makes Barron's cap $$$ available to pay a QB.

I remember batch and gradkowsi struggling to complete passes and score points. But I remember stuff wrong all the time.

Anyway, the way Tomlin was going back and forth between Rudy and duck has got to have him pretty frustrated - as it should. I’m guessing they do try to find a more reliable backup to Ben, I’d be surprised if they didn’t

[AtlantaDan]

No goats. This team did well considering how everything snowballed this season. I didn't think they would make it to the playoffs, but they did play better than I expected. Fan's expect way too much out of a team that had its legs cut off at the knees. Lots of work needed in the off season.

Agreed - this Steelers season is not Dallas or Rams level underachievement, just a team that had its season blown up in week two and after that only had the one blowout loss in Cleveland when I thought the season was heading to something like 5-11

And as far as disappointing QB play goes, drafting Mason probably will not work out but in terms of having too high a draft grade on someone, imagine being a Bears fan last night and knowing your team passed on Mahomes to trade up to draft Trubisky

In other words, there are disappointments and then there are disasters

[teegre]

In 2004, Cowher lost his starter for the season... and went 15-1 with the backup.

[tube517]

both Batch and Grad were much better than what we had this year, we’re not asking for the backup to take us to the super bowl, but we also don’t want them to have interception meltdowns and lose their cool, you want competent game managers - we didn’t get that.

And Why only bring up a trade scenario? What about free agency?, there are always a number of backups Qb’s looking for a new deal,

I agree about Batch but Grad was never healthy for us. He didn't even play a full game as a Steeler.

[Mojouw]

Anyway, the way Tomlin was going back and forth between Rudy and duck has got to have him pretty frustrated - as it should. I’m guessing they do try to find a more reliable backup to Ben, I’d be surprised if they didn’t

I suspect you are correct and a veteran back-up will be acquired. Personally, I wish they would use the cap space elsewhere and take another 3rd or 4th round pick at QB and then scour the wire post draft. I would rather the Steelers sign the NEXT great back-up QB than the previous model -- where you can see the fork sticking out his back. For instance, Hoyer did not look good playing in relief of Brissett.

Honestly, the version of Rudolph that flashed in the Jets game...that guy is a more than fine back-up. Where the hell was he all season? The optimist in me wants to take the idea that Mason R is a perfectionist who crawled way too far inside his own head prior to getting benched for Duck. Then post-benching he has freed himself up to just get out there and let it rip and play QB "Big 12 Cowboy Style" (which is what the Steelers likely actually want). Or maybe he just got lucky and the Jets kinda made him look good....

[tube517]

[86WARD]

One hand washes the other and all the parts of an offense are interconnected. From what I have seen, it is because defenses are not even pretending to respect a single thing about the Steelers offense, they are able to put stresses on the pass protection schemes that are going to cause breakdowns to any 5 man line +RB+TE. That is not to say that the line has not caused its own problems with Feiler in particular looking a bit lost at times. But honestly, I would bet a great deal that even mediocre QB play would change the shape, alignment, and plan of defenses to the point that you wouldn't see the same degree of offensive line issues.

While the team's problems may not end with the QB position, they all start there.

It’s pretty much a chicken or egg type of debate. I would say Ben is a “mediocre” or better type of QB and he was just about as successful as Rudolph or Duck for the short time he was in there.

You could also argue that the plays need to be faster. Not long developing routes, 3 step drops, etc.

I don’t think it can be pinned on the QB play as the number one problem...

[86WARD]

You guys are so delicate and quick to anger. A team ravaged by injuries at key positions and with QB play so far below competent that I can't even begin to think of how to describe it and they still almost kinda sorta pulled the whole thing off.

Sweet googly moogly. This isn't a total tear-down and rebuild. Patch a few holes and hope that your HOF caliber franchise QB can return to health for a full 16 game season.

Quick -- name the great team seasons woth a back-up QB for basically 15 games. Ready....go....

Here’s a list of a few that led teams for a longer period of time then say Jeff Hostetler, Vince Ferragamo or Nick Foles:


Drew Bledsoe to Tom Brady

Jay Schroeder to Doug Williams

Dan Pastorini to Jim Plunkett

Johnny Unitas to Earl Morrall

Tom Brady to Matt Cassell

Bob Griese to Earl Morrall

Trent Green to Kurt Warner

Craig Morton to Roger Staubach

Tony Banks to Trent Dilfer

[Mojouw]

Here’s a list of a few that led teams for a longer period of time then say Jeff Hostetler, Vince Ferragamo or Nick Foles:


Drew Bledsoe to Tom Brady

Jay Schroeder to Doug Williams

Dan Pastorini to Jim Plunkett

Johnny Unitas to Earl Morrall

Tom Brady to Matt Cassell

Bob Griese to Earl Morrall

Trent Green to Kurt Warner

Craig Morton to Roger Staubach

Tony Banks to Trent Dilfer

Great list. Most of it is pre salary cap. And the salary cap era is a low round pick in Brady and Cassell along with a UDFA making no money in Kurt Warner. That's the EXACT plan the Steelers tried to roll with. Unfortunately, Rudolph and Hodges are not future HOFer that everyone else overlooked.

While we cant take away Dilfers SB ring, I don't think he wouldve unlocked the offensive cheat codes.

[Mojouw]

It’s pretty much a chicken or egg type of debate. I would say Ben is a “mediocre” or better type of QB and he was just about as successful as Rudolph or Duck for the short time he was in there.

You could also argue that the plays need to be faster. Not long developing routes, 3 step drops, etc.

I don’t think it can be pinned on the QB play as the number one problem...

Very well could be. But I think Ben's elbow didn't just give out in Seattle. Likely dates to 18 or even 17. I think it's the explanation for why his deep balls just evaporated last season.

So assume a healthy version of Ben plays the Jets yesterday. Do they blitz Adams up the middle? If they do, even with Fosters whiff of a block, does a 15 year vet see it coming and hit something down the middle where the safety should be? Say he does, maybe that chills the Jets out a bit on rushing a DB. Likely changes the defenses entire approach.

The inability of the Steelers QBs to make teams pay when they blitz even once means it's just run blitzes and 5-6 pass rushes more than usual.


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[fansince'76]

While we cant take away Dilfers SB ring, I don't think he wouldve unlocked the offensive cheat codes.

Dilfer's SB ring was the result of a confluence of an historic defensive effort and facing very possibly the most nondescript Super Bowl-losing team in the Super Bowl era. Seriously, pretty much the only thing memorable about the 2000 Giants was Jason Sehorn's engagement and eventual marriage to Angie Harmon.

Talk about the stars aligning just right.

But there is still this classic gem:

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1yzeo

[tube517]

Dilfer's SB ring was the result of a confluence of an historic defensive effort and facing very possibly the most nondescript Super Bowl-losing team in the Super Bowl era. Seriously, pretty much about the only thing memorable about the 2000 Giants was Jason Sehorn's engagement and eventual marriage to Angie Harmon.

Talk about the stars aligning just right.

I didn't even remember that one.

I dunno. That 1985 Patriots team was damn exciting.

[fansince'76]

I dunno. That 1985 Patriots team was damn exciting.

I even consider Tony Eason and Raymond Berry to be more memorable after 35 years than I do Kerry Collins and Jim Fassel after 20.

[tube517]

I even consider Tony Eason and Raymond Berry to be more memorable after 35 years than I do Kerry Collins and Jim Fassel after 20.

Who?

[pczach]

Who?

Tony Eason and Raymond Berry were flavors of ice cream.

[NCSteeler]

New Orleans paid Bridgewater and it paid off. You can pay your guy 20 mil and still find a viable backup it can be done.

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[86WARD]

New Orleans paid Bridgewater and it paid off. You can pay your guy 20 mil and still find a viable backup it can be done.

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Since Ben, Batch and Byron, the Steelers have used that position as a point of cap savings.