What Does Ben R Think and Do the Rooneys Care?

[teegre]

If Haley had not been fired, Munchak was going to leave.

Keeping Munchak was the correct decision.

#Haleyisanasshole

[Dwinsgames]

If Haley had not been fired, Munchak was going to leave.

Keeping Munchak was the correct decision.

#Haleyisanasshole

link ?

[teegre]

link ?

There is no concrete evidence of this; mostly just the deduction that can be made because Munchak cancelled his interview with the Cardinals right after Haley was fired. IMO, the timing is a huge indicator (of Munchak not wanting to work with Haley).

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/n...als-interview/

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

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Agree. Look at the Seahawks last night. They have a very mediocre offense but played the perfect grinding game against a good defense. They asked Pete Carrol when he decided to go to the running game early in the season and his answer was so simple, "it gave us the best chance to win each week." Wow, not rocket science, no overthinking.

The Seahawks have lost a lot of talented players, but I give Carrol a lot of credit for finding that winning formula. To your point, the Seahawks ran the football 42 times yesterday and while they weren't lighting up the scoreboard, it gives them a good chance to win instead of throwing it 50 times a game.

[86WARD]

The Seahawks have lost a lot of talented players, but I give Carrol a lot of credit for finding that winning formula. To your point, the Seahawks ran the football 42 times yesterday and while they weren't lighting up the scoreboard, it gives them a good chance to win instead of throwing it 50 times a game.

And last year they couldn’t run the ball worth two shits...

[Dwinsgames]

There is no concrete evidence of this; mostly just the deduction that can be made because Munchak cancelled his interview with the Cardinals right after Haley was fired. IMO, the timing is a huge indicator (of Munchak not wanting to work with Haley).

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/n...als-interview/

to each his own there , but I doubt a guy turns down a HC interview because he is now more comfortable in his job as a line coach .... but that's just me

[AtlantaDan]

There is no concrete evidence of this; mostly just the deduction that can be made because Munchak cancelled his interview with the Cardinals right after Haley was fired. IMO, the timing is a huge indicator (of Munchak not wanting to work with Haley).

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/n...als-interview/

Mark Kaboly brought this up in his chat (paywalled) in The Athletic today.. Sounds like the Steelers had reasons other than keeping Ben happy to not bring Coach Todd back.

Talking to Munch he enjoys just being a coach and not a head coach. That might change but it doesn’t seem like that right now. Funny thing is he would’ve left last year if Haley stayed around. And we see what happened there

https://theathletic.com/705433/2018/12/10/live-12-11-steelers-chat-with-mark-kaboly/

[Istina]

Off the top of my head I would agree but we are in uncharted waters with AJRII. Ben probably has one year left at most and if they don’t make a major change it will be a barf, rinse and barf season again next year, so why let Ben decide.

Team has more issues than meets the eye, I’m all for making the change now, if Ben doesn’t like it he can retire.

I think you let Ben decide about Ben because he's earned that respect over the years and at this point he's playing as well as he ever has so until he hits the wall like Manning and he wants to keep playing, you let him play.

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Someone posted about replacing Butler with the guy from Wisconsin that coached TJ Watt.

I think that is the first step. There is nothing wrong with our offense and if we could put together a defense that could stop a team when needed and actually produce some take-aways our offense would be more than enough to win another Superbowl.

I think Ben could and might play 3 more years. Rivers is the same age and doesn't appear to be slowing down. Brady & Brees are both older and look like they could easily play 3+ years.

I think the rules favoring quarterbacks is what is giving these guys a chance to play longer. As long as Ben's doesn't fail him, he should be able to play at a level similar to this year for a few more years, IMO.

[EzraTank]

I think you let Ben decide about Ben because he's earned that respect over the years and at this point he's playing as well as he ever has so until he hits the wall like Manning and he wants to keep playing, you let him play.

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I think the rules favoring quarterbacks is what is giving these guys a chance to play longer. As long as Ben's doesn't fail him, he should be able to play at a level similar to this year for a few more years, IMO.

Agree. If Ben's arm stays healthy he could easily play another 3+ years.

[Dwinsgames]

I do not think anyone is advocating to shove Ben out the door .... BUT ........

If it is me I do not let him dictate how as an organization we handle the coaching staff or front office ...

he is an employee not an owner

[AtlantaDan]

I do not think anyone is advocating to shove Ben out the door .... BUT ........

If it is me I do not let him dictate how as an organization we handle the coaching staff or front office ...

he is an employee not an owner

Not all employees are created equal - in business (particularly smaller organizations) the most important employees in many instances have great input into how the organization operates. As his career has progressed Ben has become a more important employee than he was when AJRII got tired of seeing the organization’s biggest investment depreciating at an accelerating rate by getting beat up and fired Arians

The recurring story line I initially bought has been the Steelers got rid of Coach Todd solely because he could not get along with Ben - turns out Haley was on bad terms with others, notably Munchak, who credibly has been reported to have said I am gone if Haley stays - so I guess Munchak was also guilty of throwing his weight around regarding a coaching change even though he is just an assistant coach

With the clock running out on Ben’s career promoting from within for the O-coordinator to avoid an overhaul of the offense was a lot more defensible than promoting from within after LeBeau was let go from a defense in decline

[teegre]

Not all employees are created equal - in business (particularly smaller organizations) the most important employees in many instances have great input into how the organization operates. As his career has progressed Ben has become a more important employee than he was when AJRII got tired of seeing the organization’s biggest investment depreciating at an accelerating rate by getting beat up and fired Arians

As Bill Parcells once said: “All players are created equal... some are just created more equal than others.”

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Agree. If Ben's arm stays healthy he could easily play another 3+ years.

That is cool and all if Ben plays until he is 39 years old, but do you really think at this point in his career he is capable of leading the team to winning another Super Bowl??

If he walks away at any point, I'm fine with it. I personally hope that Mason Rudolph works out and is ready by 2020 to assume the Steelers QB role. He may not be the guy, but I hope that he is, because it would be nice if the QB of the future is on the roster already.

[EzraTank]

If we fixed our defense, there is no reason Ben can't win another Superbowl.

[Shoes]

That is cool and all if Ben plays until he is 39 years old, but do you really think at this point in his career he is capable of leading the team to winning another Super Bowl??

If he walks away at any point, I'm fine with it. I personally hope that Mason Rudolph works out and is ready by 2020 to assume the Steelers QB role. He may not be the guy, but I hope that he is, because it would be nice if the QB of the future is on the roster already.

My feelngs exactly.

[AtlantaDan]

That is cool and all if Ben plays until he is 39 years old, but do you really think at this point in his career he is capable of leading the team to winning another Super Bowl??

If he walks away at any point, I'm fine with it. I personally hope that Mason Rudolph works out and is ready by 2020 to assume the Steelers QB role. He may not be the guy, but I hope that he is, because it would be nice if the QB of the future is on the roster already.

At least as capable as the alternative unless Mason Rudolph is the next Patrick Mahomes and can step in immediately - given that we saw how the #2 QB who beat out Rudolph as the backup played on Sunday good luck with that

Of course if Ben plays through 2020 and Rudolph becomes the starter in 2021 he will be in the last year of his rookie contract as a third round pick as the Steelers need to decide to keep him (assuming they do not apply the franchise tag - that always goes smoothly)

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

If we fixed our defense, there is no reason Ben can't win another Superbowl.

Maybe, but I think his TD -INT ratio and attitude towards throwing INT's will hamper those aspirations, even with a top 5 NFL defense. He is basically a similar version of Old Brett Favre, who still thinks he is the 25 year old gunslinger, but is actually a 36 year old gunslinger that is more prone to throwing INT's than TD's, when trying to play the hero.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

At least as capable as the alternative unless Mason Rudolph is the next Patrick Mahomes and can step in immediately - given that we saw how the #2 QB who beat out Rudolph as the backup played on Sunday good luck with that

Of course if Ben plays through 2020 and Rudolph becomes the starter in 2021 he will be in the last year of his rookie contract as a third round pick as the Steelers need to decide to keep him (assuming they do not apply the franchise tag - that always goes smoothly)

Dobbs isn't going to amount to much and we saw that on Sunday when called upon. He has flaws in his technique, arm strength, etc that don't lead him to being accurate in the short to intermediate passing game, or throwing in tight windows.

Rudolph showed glimpses of footwork, arm strength and accuracy in the preseason that make me very optimistic. I recall him throwing a skinny post to JuJu for a TD between the CB and Safety, which looked like an NFL throw that he fit in at the top of his drop and held the safety briefly with his eyes. I also see at times that he has a hitch in his throwing motion of opening his left shoulder early, before throwing the football. That tips off CB's to break on the ball and decreases velocity. I think that can be coached up.

I don't think Rudolph is the next Mahomes and will progress that fast. I think he is more of a stronger armed Kirk Cousins that needs to work on some mechanics and get some NFL reps.

[Fire Goodell]

The disaster on Oakland is on coaching. They gambled the on their D which is a known weakness. Ben can be a Jekyll and Hyde sometimes, but man- what has happened to the coaching? Too bad for the people who pay good money to watch it live.

Good for all these sub .500 teams we keep dropping games to. It's like we're the charity team of the NFL

[AtlantaDan]

Dobbs isn't going to amount to much and we saw that on Sunday when called upon. He has flaws in his technique, arm strength, etc that don't lead him to being accurate in the short to intermediate passing game, or throwing in tight windows.

Rudolph showed glimpses of footwork, arm strength and accuracy in the preseason that make me very optimistic. I recall him throwing a skinny post to JuJu for a TD between the CB and Safety, which looked like an NFL throw that he fit in at the top of his drop and held the safety briefly with his eyes. I also see at times that he has a hitch in his throwing motion of opening his left shoulder early, before throwing the football. That tips off CB's to break on the ball and decreases velocity. I think that can be coached up.

I don't think Rudolph is the next Mahomes and will progress that fast. I think he is more of a stronger armed Kirk Cousins that needs to work on some mechanics and get some NFL reps.

I get the frustration with Ben and have posted about his brazenly owning the "sometimes gunslingers get shot" persona this season being a problem. I also agree Rudolph may be good but nothing about him at this point screams out next franchise QB.

But since we are not dealing with Marino taking over for David Woodley or Mahomes for Alex Smith (higher level replacement and lower level incumbent than a Rudolph for Ben switch) the closest analogy to moving on from Ben now I see is Rodgers for Favre. In addition to Mason Rudolph probably not showing Rodgers level talent, in that case Favre allegedly had "retired" before being traded to the Jets (after he wanted to be traded to the Vikings and the Packers refused) and by 2008 the Packers needed to get a look at Rodgers as a starter as he was entering the 4th year of his 5 year rookie deal.

So I cannot recall a situation where a future HOF QB still playing at a high level has been dumped for an unproven backup who has three more years to run on his rookie deal.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

So I cannot recall a situation where a future HOF QB still playing at a high level has been dumped for an unproven backup who has three more years to run on his rookie deal.

I don't think the Steelers will dump Ben. I think they let him play out his 2019 contract, but I am not sure they look to sign 38 year old Ben to a contract in 2020.

Ben isn't going to lead a team to another SB win, so why not turn the QB role over to somebody else in 2020.

[AtlantaDan]

I don't think the Steelers will dump Ben. I think they let him play out his 2019 contract, but I am not sure they look to sign 38 year old Ben to a contract in 2020.

Ben isn't going to lead a team to another SB win, so why not turn the QB role over to somebody else in 2020.

I suppose it depends whether you think a team looking at a rebuild across the board in the coming years should get on with it by spending a few years in the basement to get higher draft picks (IMO without Ben this current roster is about a 4-12/5-11 team) and see what it has in Rudolph or should try to remain competitive since IMO an aging Ben will still be better than Mason Rudolph trying to learn the game behind an O-line in the middle of a total rebuild.

If the tanking option is selected AJRII probably should go all in and get rid of Tomlin as well. Not certain if the Rooneys are wired that way.

[Mach1]

I'm not so sure Tomlin is capable of handling a total rebuild.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

I suppose it depends whether you think a team looking at a rebuild across the board in the coming years should get on with it by spending a few years in the basement to get higher draft picks (IMO without Ben this current roster is about a 4-12/5-11 team) and see what it has in Rudolph or should try to remain competitive since IMO an aging Ben will still be better than Mason Rudolph trying to learn the game behind an O-line in the middle of a total rebuild.

If the tanking option is selected AJRII probably should go all in and get rid of Tomlin as well. Not certain if the Rooneys are wired that way.

Steelers have good O line talent setup for future. A good RB, some talented WR's and a mix of young defensive players like Tuitt, Hilton, Davis, Watt, Hargrave, Edmunds, Sutton etc. I don't think its a tank job and if you have a QB like a young Kirk Cousins(who I think Rudolph is) on a rookie salary, then you have room to play in Free Agency for more talent.

Personally, without Ben in 2 seasons, the Steelers will be perfectly situated to play football with a talented O line, playmakers like AB, JuJu, Conner, Samuels, Washington and a TE drafted. Defensively as mentioned there is a core group that can be good. I personally think a game manager type QB can get that team to 7-9, while an average QB can get that team to 9-7 with a balanced attack.

IMO, Fichtner is running this offense as ride or die with Ben and the old gunslinger is getting shot more than the young gunslinger would have. If Fichtner relies more on the pro bowl O linemen and some other playmakers not named Ben, then I think the Steelers have 2 more W's than they do currently.

[Edman]

The Steelers are in for some dark times whether Ben remains or not.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. This current squad is not winning a Super Bowl. 2017 was their last chance, and they couldn't beat a team with trashfire at QB who won't even sniff the playoffs this year. From here on, it's the occasional tease, the occasional glimmer of hope (Like the six-game winning streak) but ultimately won't get anywhere (Blowing winnable games to the Broncos, Raiders, and Chargers). They lack the extra stuff that makes champions. This team will be good enough to get on highlight reels and dance routines, but when it comes to getting the job done, they won't do it. That is the legacy being forged on the 2010's Steelers.

Ben at this stage in his career is too erratic and spotty in his QB play. He plays great, then makes the boneheaded turnover. He's brilliant one week, horrible/mediocre the next. Now that Ben was good last week, I expect him to be erratic Sunday. Combine that with a phased out/nonexistent running game and a wholly average Defense who can't generate turnovers or make plays and you have seasons like this. Always good, but not good enough in any aspect to win big.

The coaching is an absolute mess. Ben or no Ben, Mike Tomlin is merely an average coach.

[silver & black]

I'm not sure you want to hear from a non Steelers fan, but I'll give my .02 anyway.

Ben is a very, very good QB.... probably #4 right now, after Brady, Brees and Rodgers. Personally, I would take him over the other 3. He's big. He's accurate, He's a tough as nails, old school FOOTBALL PLAYER.

I think Steelers fans EXPECT too much from their team and players because of past success. The NFL is full of very good players. It also has other good teams other than the Steelers. I understand the expectations ( I'm a 51 years Raiders fan.... I remember how good they were). There isn't much that separates Superbowl winners from non winners.

Look at it this way........ you have a competitive team almost every year. There are other franchises that aren't competitive most years, let alone every year. You are fans of a special team... enjoy it! It won't last for ever!..... nothing does.

[Butch]

The Seahawks have lost a lot of talented players, but I give Carrol a lot of credit for finding that winning formula. To your point,is the Seahawks ran the football 42 times yesterday and while they weren't lighting up the scoreboard, it gives them a good chance to win instead of throwing it 50 times a game.

You mean the same guy who lost a Superbowl because he refused to run from the 1 yard line?

[Butch]

Steelers have good O line talent setup for future. A good RB, some talented WR's and a mix of young defensive players like Tuitt, Hilton, Davis, Watt, Hargrave, Edmunds, Sutton etc. I don't think its a tank job and if you have a QB like a young Kirk Cousins(who I think Rudolph is) on a rookie salary, then you have room to play in Free Agency for more talent.

Personally, without Ben in 2 seasons, the Steelers will be perfectly situated to play football with a talented O line, playmakers like AB, JuJu, Conner, Samuels, Washington and a TE drafted. Defensively as mentioned there is a core group that can be good. I personally think a game manager type QB can get that team to 7-9, while an average QB can get that team to 9-7 with a balanced attack.

IMO, Fichtner is running this offense as ride or die with Ben and the old gunslinger is getting shot more than the young gunslinger would have. If Fichtner relies more on the pro bowl O linemen and some other playmakers not named Ben, then I think the Steelers have 2 more W's than they do currently.

Wow he's only played in a few pre-season games and you already have him slated as a kirk cousins guy. You may very well be right about him, but pre-season is a world of difference from actual game day action. I hope that Mason is the next great QB, but until he plays a game that matters the jury is still out. It is more likely that he is not that guy. Speaking of cousins he hasn't even gotten to a SB let alone win it.

Keep in mind that Jim Kelly was a great QB who never won the big game. Ben is a Great QB who knows how to win, and those types do not grow on trees. Countless QBs come in as the next great only to flame out 4 or 5 years later. If you are lucky they may win you a single SB. Ben has gotten us to 3 and won 2 and if he never goes to another i will consider myself lucky to have had him as our QB. My money is on Ben will be missed when he is gone warts and all.

You can spend all the money you want on surrounding talent but if you don't have the right QB you aint gonna do shit. Not only the right one but the right one for your team. Rodgers may be a great QB but he's only won a single SB. At this point same can be said of Brees, and Rivers has never even been. Marino only got to 1 and he was one of the best to play the game. It's not easy to get to the SB let alone win it.

[NCSteeler]

Dobbs isn't going to amount to much and we saw that on Sunday when called upon. He has flaws in his technique, arm strength, etc that don't lead him to being accurate in the short to intermediate passing game, or throwing in tight windows.

Rudolph showed glimpses of footwork, arm strength and accuracy in the preseason that make me very optimistic. I recall him throwing a skinny post to JuJu for a TD between the CB and Safety, which looked like an NFL throw that he fit in at the top of his drop and held the safety briefly with his eyes. I also see at times that he has a hitch in his throwing motion of opening his left shoulder early, before throwing the football. That tips off CB's to break on the ball and decreases velocity. I think that can be coached up.

I don't think Rudolph is the next Mahomes and will progress that fast. I think he is more of a stronger armed Kirk Cousins that needs to work on some mechanics and get some NFL reps.

So given perdormance in previous week. Does Rudolf get a helmet and Dobbs sees the bench?

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

You mean the same guy who lost a Superbowl because he refused to run from the 1 yard line?

Yes, that guy is making a playoff team out of a bunch of mediocre talent right now. The proverbial making lemon-aid out of Lemons.