Tomlin On Roethlisberger: ‘He’s Not Playing Well

[Moose]

Then, based on the ability to read, you know what Tomlin WAS saying. When has Tomlin EVER come out in front of the media and blasted players or coaches? I'm willing to bet there are much different conversations going on this week, than those post game comments. Just the fact that Tomlin said, Ben's not playing well, SHOULD cue you that it's being addressed. He said that he won't speak for Ben? Is that a shock? Ben has always owned up when he has a bad game. Tomlin does not speak for guys, nor does he blast them in public. That's who he is. But if you think there's no heat in private, I'm willing to bet you're very wrong.

I sure hope you're right. I'd like to know that he is getting in someone's face in the office ( behind closed doors) or in the locker room. Tomlin seems classy enough not to get the media involved, but I've never heard of anyone saying that Tomlin was in Haley's ass for play calling, etc..

[DesertSteel]

Then, based on the ability to read, you know what Tomlin WAS saying. When has Tomlin EVER come out in front of the media and blasted players or coaches? I'm willing to bet there are much different conversations going on this week, than those post game comments. Just the fact that Tomlin said, Ben's not playing well, SHOULD cue you that it's being addressed. He said that he won't speak for Ben? Is that a shock? Ben has always owned up when he has a bad game. Tomlin does not speak for guys, nor does he blast them in public. That's who he is. But if you think there's no heat in private, I'm willing to bet you're very wrong.

You really think Tomlin brings the heat on any of his star players? I just can't see it. There's no proof. When has AB ever stopped committing stupid penalties, as an example?

[Born2Steel]

You really think Tomlin brings the heat on any of his star players? I just can't see it. There's no proof. When has AB ever stopped committing stupid penalties, as an example?

Coaches coach.

[Mojouw]

I will take Tomlins win % and Top 6 all time through his first 10 years win ranking as evidence that he might know a thing or two about coaching.

Does that place him beyond criticism? Of course not. But to argue that he doesn't coach is kinda flying hard in the face of you know, evidence, and stuff.

[DesertSteel]

Coaches coach.

Well... sometimes they get fired. Since that will never happen to Tomlin and he knows it that causes him to be mellow with his players. If he was getting heat, he'd be giving it. That's the way it works.

- - - Updated - - -

I will take Tomlins win % and Top 6 all time through his first 10 years win ranking as evidence that he might know a thing or two about coaching.

Does that place him beyond criticism? Of course not. But to argue that he doesn't coach is kinda flying hard in the face of you know, evidence, and stuff.

All leaders have weaknesses. Discipline is his. It only becomes a problem when you have several diva type stars.

[teegre]

Discipline is his.

I’ve seen this repeatedly mentioned, but I just don’t get why that is the perception...

[86WARD]

Did the Steelers even play 10 good quarters so far this season? There is something going on in the locker room that has not been made public. I think some of it is from the Chicago nonsense. I think Ben would rather be somewhere else on Sundays now.

It’s been made public. Brown is pissed about the Chicago thing. He wanted to kneel along with some others, Ben didn’t want to kneel, they decided to do what they did and then AV went out and did something totally different without anyone knowing. There’s a split in the locker room and that was a big influence on ABs hissy fit on the sidelines as he thinks Ben snubbed him on purpose.

[Mojouw]

It’s been made public. Brown is pissed about the Chicago thing. He wanted to kneel along with some others, Ben didn’t want to kneel, they decided to do what they did and then AV went out and did something totally different without anyone knowing. There’s a split in the locker room and that was a big influence on ABs hissy fit on the sidelines as he thinks Ben snubbed him on purpose.

Has any legitimate outlet presented this information? I usually vacuum up all the Steelers news I can find. Would love to see this story.


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[AtlantaDan]

Has any legitimate outlet presented this information? I usually vacuum up all the Steelers news I can find. Would love to see this story.

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Jason La Canfora CBS - not a blogger in his basement

Brown has been at odds with quarterback and team captain Ben Roethlisberger recently in the aftermath of a highly-charged series of events dating back to the Steelers' decision to stay off the sidelines for the national anthem in Chicago two weeks ago. Roethlisberger spearheaded a decision to reverse course and have the players remain in the tunnel rather than on the sidelines as originally intended, which was the topic of an emotional team meeting the following day. During that meeting, sources said, Brown expressed his displeasure with how Roethlisberger and others handled the matter, and there was some lingering resentment through the week.

Sources said Brown has felt strongly the urge to kneel in protest during the anthem, but the Steelers have been in unison standing or remaining off the field during the playing of it. Sunday, when the quarterback did not throw to him early in the game,when he was wide open for a possible TD, Brown took it personally and believed it was related to his recent dispute with Roethlisberger, according to the sources, which led to his sideline blow-up.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/a...them-decision/

La Canfora also had his name on the earlier story that some Steelers were upset with Ben about how he handled the fallout from the anthem fiasco

Roethlisberger ticked off some teammates when he produced a personal public statement Monday on his website expressing regret for how the team handled the protest before teammates like decorated former Army Ranger Alejandro Villanueva had addressed the matter first.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/s...t-was-handled/

So someone on the team is talking to La Canfora

Of course La Canfora had to walk back his story this week that Colin Kaepernick would stand for the anthem if signed, so who knows what his Steelers source(s) actually told La Canfora about what is going on

A CBS sports writer who said Sunday that Colin Kaepernick would stand for the national anthem if he signed with another NFL team is now saying he never asked the quarterback about the issue.... "Standing for Anthem wasn't something that I spoke to Colin about," La Canfora wrote in a series of tweets he said were meant to "clarify" his report. "I relayed what had been reported about him standing in the future."

http://money.cnn.com/2017/10/08/medi...ick/index.html

[Mojouw]

Jason La Canfora CBS - not a blogger in his basement

Brown has been at odds with quarterback and team captain Ben Roethlisberger recently in the aftermath of a highly-charged series of events dating back to the Steelers' decision to stay off the sidelines for the national anthem in Chicago two weeks ago. Roethlisberger spearheaded a decision to reverse course and have the players remain in the tunnel rather than on the sidelines as originally intended, which was the topic of an emotional team meeting the following day. During that meeting, sources said, Brown expressed his displeasure with how Roethlisberger and others handled the matter, and there was some lingering resentment through the week.

Sources said Brown has felt strongly the urge to kneel in protest during the anthem, but the Steelers have been in unison standing or remaining off the field during the playing of it. Sunday, when the quarterback did not throw to him early in the game,when he was wide open for a possible TD, Brown took it personally and believed it was related to his recent dispute with Roethlisberger, according to the sources, which led to his sideline blow-up.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/a...them-decision/

La Canfora also had his name on the earlier story that some Steelers were upset with Ben about how he handled the fallout from the anthem fiasco

Roethlisberger ticked off some teammates when he produced a personal public statement Monday on his website expressing regret for how the team handled the protest before teammates like decorated former Army Ranger Alejandro Villanueva had addressed the matter first.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/s...t-was-handled/

So someone on the team is talking to La Canfora

Of course La Canfora had to walk back his story this week that Colin Kaepernick would stand for the anthem if signed, so who knows what his Steelers source(s) actually told La Canfora about what is going on

A CBS sports writer who said Sunday that Colin Kaepernick would stand for the national anthem if he signed with another NFL team is now saying he never asked the quarterback about the issue.... "Standing for Anthem wasn't something that I spoke to Colin about," La Canfora wrote in a series of tweets he said were meant to "clarify" his report. "I relayed what had been reported about him standing in the future."

http://money.cnn.com/2017/10/08/medi...ick/index.html

Interesting. Totally missed this. Surprised that LaCanfora is the only one who has it. Makes my spidey sense tingle...

[DesertSteel]

I’ve seen this repeatedly mentioned, but I just don’t get why that is the perception...

AB's antics are the perfect example. When has he ever been disciplined for any of his antics?

[teegre]

AB's antics are the perfect example. When has he ever been disciplined for any of his antics?

First, let’s list those antics:
-Gatorade cooler throwing
-Facebook Live
-celebrations
-anything else???

How do we know whether AB was disciplined or not? I’m really asking. Tomlin doesn’t say much in public/to the media (that’s Rex Ryan’s forté).

As far as I recall, Tomlin addressed the Gatorade issue this past week (“Not his first rodeo”). Similar comments were made after the Facebook Live incident; AB even apologized publicly. And, the penalties for celebrations have all but disappeared.



Again, I’m interested in why this perception exists. Is it because Tomlin doesn’t yell at his players? Truly, I’m asking.

[DesertSteel]

First, let’s list those antics:
-Gatorade cooler throwing
-Facebook Live
-celebrations
-anything else???

How do we know whether AB was disciplined or not? I’m really asking. Tomlin doesn’t say much in public/to the media (that’s Rex Ryan’s forté).

As far as I recall, Tomlin addressed the Gatorade issue this past week (“Not his first rodeo”). Similar comments were made after the Facebook Live incident; AB even apologized publicly. And, the penalties for celebrations have all but disappeared.



Again, I’m interested in why this perception exists. Is it because Tomlin doesn’t yell at his players? Truly, I’m asking.

If we just isolate the celebrations I can draw the conclusion that no discipline was handed down because the behavior never changed.

As someone who's been in senior management and leadership for over 25 years my read on Tomlin is that he likes the public bravado but he avoids personal confrontation. That's my psychological analysis. I could be wrong but I can't point to any piece of evidence that disproves it.

As for the penalties, they simply changed the rules.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

I’ve seen this repeatedly mentioned, but I just don’t get why that is the perception...

I think because people think that you can discipline players like you can college or highschool kids. That is false, as these are grown men, who are part of a union in their workplace. He treats them like men and not kids, that is why college coaches like Petrino, Spurrier, Saban, Chip Kelly etc could not be productive with NFL players.

[Mojouw]

I think because people think that you can discipline players like you can college or highschool kids. That is false, as these are grown men, who are part of a union in their workplace. He treats them like men and not kids, that is why college coaches like Petrino, Spurrier, Saban, Chip Kelly etc could not be productive with NFL players.

Thank you. I've been thinking and trying to say this for a long time.

You've expressed it more clearly and directly than I could ever manage.

[BlackAndGold]

Nobody takes La Canfora seriously anymore.

[teegre]

If we just isolate the celebrations I can draw the conclusion that no discipline was handed down because the behavior never changed.

As someone who's been in senior management and leadership for over 25 years my read on Tomlin is that he likes the public bravado but he avoids personal confrontation. That's my psychological analysis. I could be wrong but I can't point to any piece of evidence that disproves it.

As for the penalties, they simply changed the rules.

How can you draw that conclusion? When was AB’s last personal foul penalty?

As far as the rules changing, maybe the NFL realized that they were merely targeting certain players (as opposed to actually disciplining anything). For example, on the same day that AB got penalized for doing the exact same celebration as two other players.

As someone who has been in education for 25 years (weird parallel between your & my ages), the way that one handles discipline varies depending on a variety of factors. You do not discipline a kindergartner the same way that you would a third grader... or eighth grader... or senior in high school... which confirms what El Gonzo just wrote.

IMO, regardless of age, yelling at them is the least effective method (it gets immediate results, but makes no long-term difference in behavior). And, sometimes, discipline takes TIME: rarely does a child/teen/adult change instantaneously; it’s a progression that is quick for some (first time) and longer for others (years).

[pczach]

How can you draw that conclusion? When was AB’s last personal foul penalty?

As far as the rules changing, maybe the NFL realized that they were merely targeting certain players (as opposed to actually disciplining anything). For example, on the same day that AB got penalized for doing the exact same celebration as two other players.

As someone who has been in education for 25 years (weird parallel between your & my ages), the way that one handles discipline varies depending on a variety of factors. You do not discipline a kindergartner the same way that you would a third grader... or eighth grader... or senior in high school... which confirms what El Gonzo just wrote.

IMO, regardless of age, yelling at them is the least effective method (it gets immediate results, but makes no long-term difference in behavior). And, sometimes, discipline takes TIME: rarely does a child/teen/adult change instantaneously; it’s a progression that is quick for some (first time) and longer for others (years).

So you're saying they can't make AB sit in the corner and be quiet? A timeout seems appropriate.

[Born2Steel]

People have the wrong idea about football and discipline entirely. NFL players don't have jobs because they play nice with others. Most are egomaniacs at best. Coaches literally have to pick their battles with their athletes. The AB facebook thing was something that got immediately shut down. AB's tantrum on the sideline was addressed. The TD celebration penalties were allowed to continue because that is what AB gets paid to do, AND it wasn't costing anything we couldn't afford. It's not that there is NO discipline, it's some things bother you more than other things, and when Tomlin doesn't make one of those things HIS priority, then Tomlin doesn't discipline. Go from managing people YOU employ, to overseeing a bunch of subcontractors and their crews. You'll understand a bit more how coaching works.

[AtlantaDan]

Nobody takes La Canfora seriously anymore.

Interesting

Do you think he just made up both stories or that his source(s) gave him bad information?

[86WARD]

Has any legitimate outlet presented this information? I usually vacuum up all the Steelers news I can find. Would love to see this story.


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Laconfora tweeted it out on Sunday or Monday with a link to some story. Not sure how legit it is but it makes sense why AB would be so animated for one missed read.

Edit: whoops....didn’t see you found it already.

[DesertSteel]

How can you draw that conclusion? When was AB’s last personal foul penalty?

As far as the rules changing, maybe the NFL realized that they were merely targeting certain players (as opposed to actually disciplining anything). For example, on the same day that AB got penalized for doing the exact same celebration as two other players.

As someone who has been in education for 25 years (weird parallel between your & my ages), the way that one handles discipline varies depending on a variety of factors. You do not discipline a kindergartner the same way that you would a third grader... or eighth grader... or senior in high school... which confirms what El Gonzo just wrote.

IMO, regardless of age, yelling at them is the least effective method (it gets immediate results, but makes no long-term difference in behavior). And, sometimes, discipline takes TIME: rarely does a child/teen/adult change instantaneously; it’s a progression that is quick for some (first time) and longer for others (years).

Once more, the last penalty was last year, when the rules were different. But there is a body of evidence that goes back about four years.

I'm not suggesting that Tomlin discipline the players like high school kids. But are we suggesting that grown men don't have consequences for their actions? Facebook Live in the locker room while the coach is addressing the team?

Tomlin is a players' coach. And it works. It's only problematic when there are multiple divas (and that's what Ben, Bell and Brown are) and things are starting to run amuck.

[tube517]

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2017/10...elers-offense/


Four Receiver Sets One Way To Improve Steelers’ Offense More no huddle? More cowbell?

[teegre]

Once more, the last penalty was last year, when the rules were different. But there is a body of evidence that goes back about four years.

I'm not suggesting that Tomlin discipline the players like high school kids. But are we suggesting that grown men don't have consequences for their actions? Facebook Live in the locker room while the coach is addressing the team?

Tomlin is a players' coach. And it works. It's only problematic when there are multiple divas (and that's what Ben, Bell and Brown are) and things are starting to run amuck.

Of course you can discipline grown men, but it’s much different than the way you’d discipline a college kid (let alone a high school kid).

And, just because we don’t “see” Tomlin disciplining his players on the sideline doesn’t mean that it doesn’t happen behind closed doors.

[DesertSteel]

Of course you can discipline grown men, but it’s much different than the way you’d discipline a college kid (let alone a high school kid).

And, just because we don’t “see” Tomlin disciplining his players on the sideline doesn’t mean that it doesn’t happen behind closed doors.

I've just never seen any evidence of it. Nor have I heard a former player talk about it. It could be happening. Maybe I'm forgetting about an occurrence and need reminded of when there were known ramifications to any player who was a starter. Someone post up if in 10 years you know of one.

[teegre]

I've just never seen any evidence of it. Nor have I heard a former player talk about it. It could be happening. Maybe I'm forgetting about an occurrence and need reminded of when there were known ramifications to any player who was a starter. Someone post up if in 10 years you know of one.

Santonio getting traded.

[DesertSteel]

Santonio getting traded.

That's an example that has some merit. I tend to believe that was an upstairs call, but who knows.

[Craic]

That's an example that has some merit. I tend to believe that was an upstairs call, but who knows.

Santonio was also scratched from the roster for that game, and that was all Tomlin.

[86WARD]

Tomlin is known to have a “dog house” no? Ask a couple DBs and WRs...

[tube517]

Tomlin is known to have a “dog house” no? Ask a couple DBs and WRs...

And RBs that spin alot. He was benched twice, IIRC.