Philip Rivers vs Ben Roethlisberger

[fansince'76]

Then 2 teams led by avg QB's in Sanchez and Flacco.

Yep, pretty much the same Sanchez-led team the oh-so-awesome Rivers couldn't beat in the postseason. At home, no less.

[Footballanalyst]

LOL you're funny!!!

Which Superbowl did rivers win again??? Hell how many has he been to (not including watching from the stands).

Outside of his stats what else does rivers have to hang his hat on???

To answer your question in just one example Ben Tackled the colt who recovered the fumble by Jerome. Ok so he didn't throw it he saved one from happening.

Outside of his stats, you mean PRODUCTIVITY? What more does he need? When you are the most consistent and efficient QB and the most productive the past 3 years. When you are the highest scoring QB per game in NFL history, you are doing your job. Teams win games. It's about coaching, offene, defense, special teams, preparation, game plans, matchups, lucky bounces of the ball (Steve Johnson dropping a game winning TD in the Bills game) or favorable calls (The Miami fumble by Ben), injuries.

All you can ask of a QB is put your offense in the best position to win, which in return helps your team, but doesn't guarantee anything. Rivers does that as good as anyone who has ever played. Sorry that he doesn't coach, or play defense, or play HB, or play special teams. Sorry that he isn't a stubborn GM.

[Footballanalyst]

Slightly better? Delusional. Rivers had at his disposal at one point the best RB in the business and still has the best TE in the business, and V-Jack is equal to, if not better than, anyone in our WR corps now (Wallace and Sanders are still quite green). And we won SB XLIII with BY FAR the worst OL of any SB-winning team in history.

Remind me how many great games LT has had in the playoffs??

Lets not act like Ben has had Wallace, Holmes, Ward, Plax, Miller, Mendenhall, Parker, Bettis. Yes he won a SB vs a 9-7 team with a bad defense and needed his defense to make a 100 yd int on a 14 point swing before half time to win.

You must hate the steelers, to give so much credit to Ben, when anyone with eyes can see how much that team comes through in the big games.

[Footballanalyst]

Yep, pretty much the same Sanchez-led team the oh-so-awesome Rivers couldn't beat in the postseason. At home, no less.

In a 3 point loss, where his kicker missed 3 FG's. How about Ben losing to Gerrard at home while throwing 3 ints?? Something Rivers has never done in any game he has ever played in the pros?

[X-Terminator]

Ben is 10-3 and many of those wins were while he played bad. Just look at Ben's numbers for the 3 SB's combined. On any team outside the Steelers and possibly the Ravens, no way does Ben have 5 playoff wins. That team goes as the defense goes. 3-1 this year without Ben. Including a win over the #1 NFC seed. With their 3rd string QB. Take Troy out of the lineup and we saw how great Pit was in 09.

Ben is great with Pit, but outside Pit, he is not a Rivers or Peyton or others who could have the same impact and value on any team. You realize Ben has never made the playoffs without a top 3 scoring defense. What top 15 QB can't make the playoffs with a top 3 scoring defense?

You know, it's funny. You want to penalize Ben for having great defenses, but give Rivers a pass even though his teams have had superior talent and has won exactly jack and shit. I firmly believe if you give Ben the same talent that Rivers has had, he would put up the same numbers. The only reason Ben hasn't done it to this point is because he isn't asked to do it. Tell me...how is it Ben's fault the Steelers' D is usually great? I might also add that the Steelers do not make it to Super Bowl XL if Cowher doesn't take the reins off Ben. He beat Manning that year, for crying out loud. Yeah, that guy who can throw 6 INTs and yet the Chargers still find a way to lose the game. After that, he goes on the road and dismantled a pretty good Broncos defense that had just beaten the Cheats the week before. All of his haters overlook that, and instead focus on how he's played in the SB. But hey, at least we CAN discuss that about Ben, unlike your boy Rivers.

*Insert random Rivers is God, Ben is terrible BS here*

*EDIT* Wait a minute...I finally figured it out. This guy is either UltimateFootballNetwork (aka "Ultimate Fuck Nuckle") or "St. Ben Godsend" Jeremy. Why didn't I figure that out before?

[fansince'76]

In a 3 point loss, where his kicker missed 3 FG's. How about Ben losing to Gerrard at home while throwing 3 ints?? Something Rivers has never done in any game he has ever played in the pros?

Why does such a great QB need a kicker to bail him out? Especially one of the "best ever?"

Sure, and Ben also helped bring the Steelers all the way back against the Jaguars and took the lead only to lose it on a last minute field goal. Isn't cherry-picking facts fun?

[fansince'76]

Remind me how many great games LT has had in the playoffs??

Off the top of my head, LDT was pretty much ripping NE a new asshole in the playoffs in '06, until Marty put the ball in the Mighty Rivers' hands in the second half and he promptly lost the game.

[The Duke]

So Ben has ideal matchups, a dominating defense, luck and poor fantasy numbers

Nothing is by himself. Nope, nada

People are never going to realize that this team goes where Ben goes

[Footballanalyst]

You know, it's funny. You want to penalize Ben for having great defenses, but give Rivers a pass even though his teams have had superior talent and has won exactly jack and shit. I firmly believe if you give Ben the same talent that Rivers has had, he would put up the same numbers. The only reason Ben hasn't done it to this point is because he isn't asked to do it. Tell me...how is it Ben's fault the Steelers' D is usually great? I might also add that the Steelers do not make it to Super Bowl XL if Cowher doesn't take the reins off Ben. He beat Manning that year, for crying out loud. Yeah, that guy who can throw 6 INTs and yet the Chargers still find a way to lose the game. After that, he goes on the road and dismantled a pretty good Broncos defense that had just beaten the Cheats the week before. All of his haters overlook that, and instead focus on how he's played in the SB. But hey, at least we CAN discuss that about Ben, unlike your boy Rivers.

*Insert random Rivers is God, Ben is terrible BS here*

Penalize? No, but distribute the credit where it belongs. Did I make up the age old addage of defense wins championships? Has anyone outside of Montana's 49'ers have a defense as consistently dominant as Ben has had? Even then Joe had dominant numbers in the SB's. Again remind me how great SD's TALENT has played in the playoffs. How many clutch plays they have come up with?

2 of the 3 seasons Ben has thrown for over 450 times, where his 2 worst statistical seasons and the 1 time he threw over 500 times, the team missed the playoffs. In 2 of the 3 seasons with over 450 attempts Pit missed the playoffs. Rivers is 2-0 vs Peyton in the playoffs.

Rivers vs the 09 Jets who had a much better defense than the 2010 Jets, played better vs them at home than Ben did vs the Jets at home in 2010. With a worse defense than the 2010 Steelers defense and less of a running game than the 2010 Steelers. Also had his kicker miss 3 FG's in the game.

The 05 Broncos were an overrated team and the 05 Pats were 1-3 vs the AFCW, 1-4 counting the playoffs.

[Footballanalyst]

Why does such a great QB need a kicker to bail him out? Especially one of the "best ever?"

Sure, and Ben also helped bring the Steelers all the way back against the Jaguars and took the lead only to lose it on a last minute field goal. Isn't cherry-picking facts fun?

Doesn't Brady have 3 SB rings due to 3 FG's. Didn't Brees make it to the SB due to a FG in the NFCC game. So is that loss on Ben? No? Yet vs the Jets that loss is on Rivers, yet his kicker missed 3 kicks in a 3 point loss? Funny no?

[Footballanalyst]

Off the top of my head, LDT was pretty much ripping NE a new asshole in the playoffs in '06, until Marty put the ball in the Mighty Rivers' hands in the second half and he promptly lost the game.

That is the one game LT went off in. Then stopped getting the ball in the 2nd half. SD had the game won on a 4th down INT, then proceeded to fumble the ball and let NE come back. Rivers then with 0 timeouts, goes from SD's 25 yd line with 1:03 left in the game to NE's 34 and Kaeding proceeds to miss the tying kick.

Compare that to Ben's first season starting vs NE in the playoffs in 04.

[fansince'76]

Rivers vs the 09 Jets who had a much better defense than the 2010 Jets, played better vs them at home than Ben did vs the Jets at home in 2010.

27-40 for 298, with 1 TD and 2 INTs? Yeah, those are killer numbers there, guy.

[Footballanalyst]

So Ben has ideal matchups, a dominating defense, luck and poor fantasy numbers

Nothing is by himself. Nope, nada

People are never going to realize that this team goes where Ben goes

PIT has had some favorable matchups in the playoffs. 04 Jets, 05 Bengals with no Palmer, 05 Seattle and Denver. 08 Chargers and Cardinals.

They do have a dominant defense. Not much luck in the playoffs. But some big plays by the defense. Ben has had a couple of very productive seasons, but way to inconsistent.

Yeah you are right as evidence by this year that PIT was on pace for 12-4 without Ben, with their 3-1 start.

[Footballanalyst]

27-40 for 298, with 1 TD and 2 INTs? Yeah, those are killer numbers there, guy.

Compared to Ben's 10 of 19 for 133 yds 0 tds and 2 ints with a 35.5 QB rating?

[fansince'76]

Yet vs the Jets that loss is on Rivers, yet his kicker missed 3 kicks in a 3 point loss? Funny no?

What you're seeming to miss here is that since Rivers is so far and away superior to Roethlisberger as a QB in every conceivable way, as you claim, shouldn't he be held to a higher standard? Shouldn't a QB so statistically dominant be able to guide his offense to more than 14 points at home in a playoff game?

[fansince'76]

Compared to Ben's 10 of 19 for 133 yds 0 tds and 2 ints with a 35.5 QB rating?

No, for one of the "best ever," 27-40 for 298 yards with 2 INTs against 1 TD is a red-letter day.

See, I'm not claiming my QB is one of the "best ever." He's not even the best QB in my franchise's history, IMO. That's the difference.

[Nadroj 20]

We can compare numbers all day and debate back and forth using examples and both sides are going to have their bias. so if its this debatable and they are somewhat close as QB's in the NFL lets go to something else that matters.... 2 SB's vs Zippo.

[Footballanalyst]

What you're seeming to miss here is that since Rivers is so far and away superior to Roethlisberger as a QB in every conceivable way, as you claim, shouldn't he be held to a higher standard? Shouldn't a QB so statistically dominant be able to guide his offense to more than 14 points at home in a playoff game?

Isn't Brady considered far superior to Romo? Yet didn't the 07 Pats in the SB score 14 points? Which is less than the 07 Cowboys did vs the same Giants?

Again I have Rivers top 3, Ben top 6. Not sure how "FARRR" superior I have implied Rivers is. I think from the stand point of a QB's job description, Rivers is clearly better. When you want to start throwing in team achievements or requirements as player assessments and skill indicators, your argument looks more futile.

[fansince'76]

We can compare numbers all day and debate back and forth using examples and both sides are going to have their bias.

Yep, and it's obvious neither side is gonna budge. In all honesty, I think Rivers is a very good QB and the Chargers as a team have been hamstrung to some extent by Norv Turner (great offensive coordinator, LOUSY head coach). And he does do some things better than Roethlisberger (his deep ball is much more accurate, for one). However, I still think Roethlisberger is very much underestimated by opposing team's fans as to how much value he has to this team. That's about the last I'll probably say about it as it's a fruitless argument.

[Footballanalyst]

No, for one of the "best ever," 27-40 for 298 yards with 2 INTs against 1 TD is a red-letter day.

See, I'm not claiming my QB is one of the "best ever." He's not even the best QB in my franchise's history, IMO. That's the difference.

I said Rivers is one of the best ever at doing what the immediate job description is for a QB. Unfortunately QB's are judged by many more variables than just what their position entails by definition. I think it's bogus, but it's the standard. By that regard, when you start adding in random variables he is not one of the best ever.

Beside Peyton IMO might be the best ever and he has had several bad games. As has Walter Payton, Jerry Rice, Lawerence Taylor, Troy P, etc.

Also, Rivers did have a rushing TD in that game vs the Jets.

[Footballanalyst]

Yep, and it's obvious neither side is gonna budge. In all honesty, I think Rivers is a very good QB and the Chargers as a team have been hamstrung to some extent by Norv Turner (great offensive coordinator, LOUSY head coach). And he does do some things better than Roethlisberger (his deep ball is much more accurate, for one). However, I still think Roethlisberger is very much underestimated by opposing team's fans as to how much value he has to this team. That's about the last I'll probably say about it as it's a fruitless argument.

I can agree with that. My intention was not to come here and bash Ben. I was searching some info on the net and came across this thread and saw people saying Rivers sucks and baby, bad leader. Now I get this is the "smack section". But ignorance can't be ignored. Rivers and Ben are franchise QB's and elite. To say either sucks is trolling. Questioning the personality or leadership without real validity is also questionable.

[fansince'76]

I can agree with that. My intention was not to come here and bash Ben. I was searching some info on the net and came across this thread and saw people saying Rivers sucks and baby, bad leader. Now I get this is the "smack section". But ignorance can't be ignored. Rivers and Ben are franchise QB's and elite. To say either sucks is trolling. Questioning the personality or leadership without real validity is also questionable.

I was one of those who questioned Rivers as a leader until I saw him gut it out with bad knees in the AFCCG. He's definitely a tough player worthy of respect. And I was rooting for the Chargers in that game, primarily out of my intense dislike for all things Patriots.

[Footballanalyst]

I was one of those who questioned Rivers as a leader until I saw him gut it out with bad knees in the AFCCG. He's definitely a tough player worthy of respect. And I was rooting for the Chargers in that game, primarily out of my intense dislike for all things Patriots.

Same goes for Ben and the amount of injuries he plays with and hits he takes. Arguably the 2 toughest QB's in the league, with Favre out of it. Not so sure about their 04 counter part in Eli.

[X-Terminator]

You have to understand, dude...Steelers fans have just about had it up to here with the lack of respect Ben gets from opposing team fans, his off-the-field issues aside. No, he's not the best QB in the league, but he's a damn good one, and he does a LOT more than ride shotgun for a team with a great defense. Something that opposing team fans and fantasy football geeks simply cannot comprehend. So you'll have to excuse us for being a little defensive and, quite honestly, a little bit pissed off.

[polamalubeast]

in 13 playoff games, Roethlisberger helped the Steelers to score an average of 26.5 per game!!! .... this is the 3rd best average of all time by a QB that has had at least 10 start. ... of course, Rodgers is going to soon be exceeded, but it will still be 4th.....Rivers had just 19 points per game.

The Steelers have scored at least 20 points in 13 games with Roethlisberger......The Chargers score less than 20 points in three of seven games with Rivers.

In the three loss of Ben Roethlisberger in playoff, the Steelers to score on average 27 POINTS PER GAME

And Roethlisberger, he had 3200 yards in just 12 games .... He would have had his 2nd straight season of more than 4,000 yards if he had not been suspended.

[steeldevil]

I said Rivers is one of the best ever at doing what the immediate job description is for a QB. Unfortunately QB's are judged by many more variables than just what their position entails by definition. I think it's bogus, but it's the standard. By that regard, when you start adding in random variables he is not one of the best ever.

Beside Peyton IMO might be the best ever and he has had several bad games. As has Walter Payton, Jerry Rice, Lawerence Taylor, Troy P, etc.

Also, Rivers did have a rushing TD in that game vs the Jets.

The job description for a QB is to lead him team to a win. Always has been, always will be.

Ben does his job better than Rivers does. End of story.

[HometownGal]

Hey - where did Philip Rivers' hemorrhoid go?

Did he get cyber-zapped with a tube of Prep H?

[Count Steeler]

I'm getting sick of lists and comparisons, especially this off season. As a Steelers fan, I am more than happy to have Ben as our QB. Would I be happy if Rivers was our QB? Don't know. I'm sure he would have been molded differently than the way he was in San Diego. I'm sure walking by 6 Lombardis every day sure would do something to your head. With the tradition and the winning attitude of the Pittsburgh Steelers, even Rivers had a chance of being a great QB here. We will never know though, Ben is here to stay and hopefully help us win 2 or 3 more Lombardis.

[tube517]

Hey - where did Philip Rivers' hemorrhoid go?

Did he get cyber-zapped with a tube of Prep H?

Somebody call me?

This thread was making me sleepy. I cannot believe it's still active.

[tube517]

I was one of those who questioned Rivers as a leader until I saw him gut it out with bad knees in the AFCCG. He's definitely a tough player worthy of respect. And I was rooting for the Chargers in that game, primarily out of my intense dislike for all things Patriots.

I have to agree with FS 76. I don't hate Rivers as much as others. I liked it when he got into it with Cutler. Statistically, he's one of the better QB's and probably a better pure "passer" than Ben. But, I'd still take Ben over Rivers in any matchup except Fantasy Football stats.