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Thread: Paper "debunking" global warming discredited; editor-in-chief resigns.

  1. #121
    Administrator Array title="fansince'76 has a reputation beyond repute"> fansince'76's Avatar

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    Re: Paper "debunking" global warming discredited; editor-in-chief resigns.

    By mid-spring 2011, T-Paw had reversed himself and “denounced” his previous stance, regurgitating long-disproven climate myths: “I’m old enough to remember when people were predicting there was going to be the next ice age. Until recently people were worried as much about global cooling. [Some people may have been, but scientists were not.]
    It's not a myth:

    The western world's leading climatologists have confirmed recent reports of a detrimental global climatic change. The stability of most nations is based upon a dependable source of food, but this stability will not be possible under the new climatic era. A forecast by the University of Wisconsin projects that the earth's climate is returning to that of the neo-boreal era (1600-1850) - an era of drought, famine, and political unrest in the western world.
    From A Study of Climatological Research as it Pertains to Intelligence Problems, August, 1974

    http://www.climatemonitor.it/wp-cont...09/12/1974.pdf

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    Qui dall'inizio Array title="Vincent is on a distinguished road"> Vincent's Avatar

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    Re: Paper "debunking" global warming discredited; editor-in-chief resigns.

    Quote Originally Posted by fansince'76 View Post
    “I’m old enough to remember when people were predicting there was going to be the next ice age. Until recently people were worried as much about global cooling. [Some people may have been, but scientists were not.]
    I'm old enough to remember that too. The same team that pushed the "coming ice age" are pushing "global warming".

    Climate ebbs and flows. No dispute. History has it on tape. What I dispute is man's role. There it becomes political.

    But I am deeply thankful that our "president" has lowered sea levels. Do you suppose he realizes that he averted a perfectly useful "crisis"? This might precipitate (no pun) a primary challenge.
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    We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress & the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution,
    but overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution."

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  3. #123

    Re: Paper "debunking" global warming discredited; editor-in-chief resigns.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc_Holiday View Post
    Once people believe an idea, they never change even in the face of facts.
    I think the bigger problem is that people trumpet their conclusions as unassailable facts, when in truth what is presented is a few facts with a number of positivist arguments to a "factual" conclusion that ends up being nothing more than an argument based on interpretation.


  4. #124
    Klaatu barada nikto Array title="suitanim has a brilliant future"> suitanim's Avatar

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    Re: Paper "debunking" global warming discredited; editor-in-chief resigns.

    Just a couple observations: Didn't Vincent's blurb cite NASA? Isn't NASA credible?

    One of my biggest worries about all this is dependency on computer models. Slight variances at the onset can have HUGE impacts on outcomes in even the smallest scale weather models, and we see evidence of that everyday. We wake up, watch the Weather Channel, see that it's going to be 70 and rainy, so we take our umbrella to work, and it turns out to be 80 and sunny.

    I don't deny the Earth is warming slightly. I don't believe anyone disputes that empirical fact. But the cause is not known.

    One other thing. Is it really in a big global corporations best interests to not have reliable data about the weather? What about all the drilling in the Gulf? In Texas. Aren't these companies directly affected by hurricanes and record heat and droughts? If they were causing the conditions that ultimately make their job more difficult, I think they'd want to know.
    Fire Goodell

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    Senior Member Array title="zulater has a reputation beyond repute"> zulater's Avatar

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    Re: Paper "debunking" global warming discredited; editor-in-chief resigns.

    Just the fact that city temperature's are on average several degrees higher than rural area temperatures on normal day lends credence to the notion that man has a "carbon footprint" that adds to global warming. But whether that's an insurmountably bad thing, or partially reversible is open to debate.
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

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    The Oncoming Storm Array title="Vis will become famous soon enough"> Vis's Avatar

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    Re: Paper "debunking" global warming discredited; editor-in-chief resigns.

    Quote Originally Posted by suitanim View Post
    Just a couple observations: Didn't Vincent's blurb cite NASA? Isn't NASA credible?

    One of my biggest worries about all this is dependency on computer models. Slight variances at the onset can have HUGE impacts on outcomes in even the smallest scale weather models, and we see evidence of that everyday. We wake up, watch the Weather Channel, see that it's going to be 70 and rainy, so we take our umbrella to work, and it turns out to be 80 and sunny.

    I don't deny the Earth is warming slightly. I don't believe anyone disputes that empirical fact. But the cause is not known.

    One other thing. Is it really in a big global corporations best interests to not have reliable data about the weather? What about all the drilling in the Gulf? In Texas. Aren't these companies directly affected by hurricanes and record heat and droughts? If they were causing the conditions that ultimately make their job more difficult, I think they'd want to know.
    The conclusions are the BS

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    Re: Paper "debunking" global warming discredited; editor-in-chief resigns.

    Quote Originally Posted by zulater View Post
    Just the fact that city temperature's are on average several degrees higher than rural area temperatures on normal day lends credence to the notion that man has a "carbon footprint" that adds to global warming. But whether that's an insurmountably bad thing, or partially reversible is open to debate.
    If I am not mistaken the phenomena of Higher tempertures in Cities has more to do with buildings, glass, paved roads and reflective surfaces then carbon output via cars, mass transit etc. But it has been years so I may be mistaken. Cant take time to look to see if i am right just wanted to stay involved.

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    Re: Paper "debunking" global warming discredited; editor-in-chief resigns.

    Quote Originally Posted by Just George View Post
    If I am not mistaken the phenomena of Higher tempertures in Cities has more to do with buildings, glass, paved roads and reflective surfaces then carbon output via cars, mass transit etc. But it has been years so I may be mistaken. Cant take time to look to see if i am right just wanted to stay involved.
    When I point out man's "carbon footprint" that wasn't meant to be an indictment of fossil fuels, but rather to be reflective of man's very presence when in abundance in nature.

    Personally, I think we should always look for solutions to improve things, but most of what's happening can't be helped short of a mass extermination of the majority of the human race. I think global warming has become big business and many of it's champions are glorified profiteers. While we should look to reduce fossil fuel related emissions, we can't overreact. I think the problem has been oversold and overstated. The earth may be changing, but fossil fuel emissions wont be it's final undoing.

    Also as I've previously stated I think the poison's we dump into our waterways are a more immediate threat to the world's well being than fossil fuel emissions, but it gets buried by the hubris of the anti global warming profiteers and their well intended sycophants.
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

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    Qui dall'inizio Array title="Vincent is on a distinguished road"> Vincent's Avatar

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    Re: Paper "debunking" global warming discredited; editor-in-chief resigns.

    Quote Originally Posted by suitanim View Post
    Just a couple observations: Didn't Vincent's blurb cite NASA? Isn't NASA credible?
    This isn't about exchanging views Suit. This is Vis' court. Its about him baiting then slapping down any opposing views. He seems to need that "affirmation".
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    We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress & the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution,
    but overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution."

    Abraham Lincoln

  10. #130
    Klaatu barada nikto Array title="suitanim has a brilliant future"> suitanim's Avatar

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    Re: Paper "debunking" global warming discredited; editor-in-chief resigns.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vincent View Post
    This isn't about exchanging views Suit. This is Vis' court. Its about him baiting then slapping down any opposing views. He seems to need that "affirmation".
    Well, here's the rub. Anyone who "knows" is full of shit.
    Full.
    Of.
    Shit.

    So anyone, from either side, who claims to "know" what's going on has zero credibility, because you cannot know something that is currently (and may always be) unknowable.

    What I hope we are smart enough to do as a people is not crash the boat of our economy on the rocks of uncertainty. I don't think that EVERY scientist who finds some evidence of MMCC (Man-made Climate Change) is doing so out of a predetermined need to keep the grant money coming in. But some are. I also don't think the heads of big fossil fuel companies sit around plotting how they can destroy the World by raping it's resources. That just doesn't make any sense. But I also think some will error on the side of profit over responsible environmental management.

    It cracks me up when lefties always toss "Well, you certainly can't trust ANY study funded by big oil, because it's biased, they're in the bag, blah blah..." That argument is flawed for several reasons. For one, nobody is volunteering to do these studies (regardless of conclusion) out of the goodness of their heart. They are either getting grant money from a government, a non-profit (which is probably partisan), or a big company. That means ALL these studies are in some way "biased". IF the funding entity wants to see a certain result, and you as a testing entity don't deliver that, ZAP! Your funding dries up. But not all these entities desire a certain predetermined result. So there is good data out there that is untainted. Which is which, though? I don't really know.

    So if you're sorting through large piles of unreliable data, with no way to know what's valid and what's not, how do you draw reasonable and accurate conclusions? Toss in the fact that these models are STILL highly inaccurate even over periods as short as 24 hours, and small variable variances can produce giant ripples down the line and you've got yourself a mess.

    There is also the problem of the tail wagging the dog. I don't really believe that every government WANTS to find Global Warming, nor does every big petro-dollar corp desire to find things just their way. As I said, if you're big oil, and you can't drill in the gulf 6 months out of the year because there are now 27 hurricanes a year, you need to know why that's happening! They spend a shit-TON of money on R&D, and you wouldn't just ignore huge variable like that, even if they are mere possibilities.

    Anyway, I think there needs to be a smart and balanced approach to this. Possibilities need to be explored, not ignored. But we need to keep the fragile economy balanced in the process. Al Gore is just as bad as Rick Perry, and vice versa...
    Fire Goodell

  11. #131
    Klaatu barada nikto Array title="suitanim has a brilliant future"> suitanim's Avatar

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    Re: Paper "debunking" global warming discredited; editor-in-chief resigns.

    Quote Originally Posted by Just George View Post
    If I am not mistaken the phenomena of Higher tempertures in Cities has more to do with buildings, glass, paved roads and reflective surfaces then carbon output via cars, mass transit etc. But it has been years so I may be mistaken. Cant take time to look to see if i am right just wanted to stay involved.
    It's called the Urban Heat Island Effect. It's a real phenomenon.

    But it's far too small to have any impact on a Global level.
    Fire Goodell

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    The Oncoming Storm Array title="Vis will become famous soon enough"> Vis's Avatar

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    Re: Paper "debunking" global warming discredited; editor-in-chief resigns.

    Get a white roof.

  13. #133
    Qui dall'inizio Array title="Vincent is on a distinguished road"> Vincent's Avatar

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    Re: Paper "debunking" global warming discredited; editor-in-chief resigns.

    Quote Originally Posted by suitanim View Post
    Well, here's the rub. Anyone who "knows" is full of shit.
    Well now that I'm on "ignore" I guess I can speak freely without the sword of Domiciles hanging over me.

    Quote Originally Posted by suitanim View Post
    I don't think that EVERY scientist who finds some evidence of MMCC (Man-made Climate Change) is doing so out of a predetermined need to keep the grant money coming in.
    That would seem unlikely. But among the behaviors we have observed of our leftist friends is their tendency to line up behind an objective, whether it be rallying the proletariat with slogans or corralling "science" to reach an end. As you correctly note, some are.

    Quote Originally Posted by suitanim View Post
    I also don't think the heads of big fossil fuel companies sit around plotting how they can destroy the World by raping it's resources. That just doesn't make any sense.
    That betrays the almighty profit motive.

    Quote Originally Posted by suitanim View Post
    There is also the problem of the tail wagging the dog.
    And therein lies the real rub.

    The left operate on mindless emotion. "Rise up!" "Brothers Unite!" "Change!" They manufacture crises and milk them through the management of "information". They seek critical mass of "public opinion" to overwhelm and shout down any objection to the "premise" of the "crisis", however flawed. We see the same pattern in every "front" they open - "the new deal". Soshacurity. The "Great Society". Medi-whatever. National "healthcare". "Global warming". "They're coming for your 'rights'". "Act now before we perish!!". "We need to do this for the...".

    We have been conditioned over decades to acquiesce to these movements. Now, every one of these hysterical movements are integral to the Cloward-Piven Strategy to overwhelm the gubmint's capacity, collapse the economy, frustrate the population to the point of revolution, then co-opt as the bolsheviks did in Russia. Ergo Obamacare that addresses no crisis but pisses trillions down a rathole. Ergo the "stimulus'" that pissed even more trillions down more ratholes. Ergo this "jobs" bull@#$% that seeks yet more trillions to line the pockets of the left. Ergo the Counselor's "The Oncoming Storm" tag line.

    Quote Originally Posted by suitanim View Post
    Al Gore is just as bad as Rick Perry, and vice versa...
    And to think the latter was once the former's campaign manager. See, we CAN all "just get along".
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    We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress & the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution,
    but overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution."

    Abraham Lincoln

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