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Thread: Paper "debunking" global warming discredited; editor-in-chief resigns.

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    Paper "debunking" global warming discredited; editor-in-chief resigns.

    Editor-in-Chief of Remote Sensing agrees that Spencer and Braswell (2011) should not have been published; resigns

    Category: Roy Spencer
    Posted on: September 2, 2011 11:19 AM, by Tim Lambert
    Wolfgang Wagner, Editor-in-Chief of Remote Sensing writes:
    Peer-reviewed journals are a pillar of modern science. Their aim is to achieve highest scientific standards by carrying out a rigorous peer review that is, as a minimum requirement, supposed to be able to identify fundamental methodological errors or false claims. Unfortunately, as many climate researchers and engaged observers of the climate change debate pointed out in various internet discussion fora, the paper by Spencer and Braswell [1] that was recently published in Remote Sensing is most likely problematic in both aspects and should therefore not have been published.
    After having become aware of the situation, and studying the various pro and contra arguments, I agree with the critics of the paper. Therefore, I would like to take the responsibility for this editorial decision and, as a result, step down as Editor-in-Chief of the journal Remote Sensing.
    With this step I would also like to personally protest against how the authors and like-minded climate sceptics have much exaggerated the paper's conclusions in public statements, e.g., in a press release of The University of Alabama in Huntsville from 27 July 2011 [2], the main author's personal homepage [3], the story "New NASA data blow gaping hole in global warming alarmism" published by Forbes [4], and the story "Does NASA data show global warming lost in space?" published by Fox News [5], to name just a few.
    The criticism that Wagner finds compelling is presumably this. This reminds me of what happened in 2003, when several editors at Climate Research resigned because of the publication of Soon and Baliunas, another paper that should not have been published.

    http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2011...nt=channellink

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    Re: Paper "debunking" global warming discredited; editor-in-chief resigns.

    I think some of those exaggerations were repeated here. Anyone resigning?

    http://www.realclimate.org/index.php...ture-feedback/

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    Re: Paper "debunking" global warming discredited; editor-in-chief resigns.

    So, without reading through reams of papers, is the question of global warming being that the Earth isn't warming, or is it the reasons that are being disputed here?

    Because if anyone is arguing that the Earth isn't warming, they are just wrong. That is not a matter of opinion. The reasons are HIGHLY debatable, though.
    Fire Goodell

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    Re: Paper "debunking" global warming discredited; editor-in-chief resigns.

    Quote Originally Posted by suitanim View Post
    So, without reading through reams of papers, is the question of global warming being that the Earth isn't warming, or is it the reasons that are being disputed here?

    Because if anyone is arguing that the Earth isn't warming, they are just wrong. That is not a matter of opinion. The reasons are HIGHLY debatable, though.
    Find a paper not later discredited on the side of the deniers. Why create a faulty paper? Who paid for it?

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    Re: Paper "debunking" global warming discredited; editor-in-chief resigns.



    Give a lib a fish--he eats for a day

    Teach a lib to fish--he is back the next day asking for more free fish.

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    Re: Paper "debunking" global warming discredited; editor-in-chief resigns.

    Quote Originally Posted by suitanim View Post
    So, without reading through reams of papers, is the question of global warming being that the Earth isn't warming, or is it the reasons that are being disputed here?

    Because if anyone is arguing that the Earth isn't warming, they are just wrong. That is not a matter of opinion. The reasons are HIGHLY debatable, though.
    The other aspect that I believe is debatable is the long term ramifications of global warming. Is it necessarily the most awful thing that can happen and something that is insurmountable for the overall survival of the planet and man on it? Personally I think pollution of our waterways has a lot greater chance of killing off mankind than the consumption of fossil fuels.
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

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    Re: Paper "debunking" global warming discredited; editor-in-chief resigns.

    Quote Originally Posted by zulater View Post
    The other aspect that I believe is debatable is the long term ramifications of global warming. Is it necessarily the most awful thing that can happen and something that is insurmountable for the overall survival of the planet and man on it? Personally I think pollution of our waterways has a lot greater chance of killing off mankind than the consumption of fossil fuels.
    It's not a question of whether it will kill us off. it won't as a species. It will kill off some species though. The question is, what kind of life will we have? If we had total control over the climate, our best interests lie in shrinking deserts and larger land masses. For that we need to cool.

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    Re: Paper "debunking" global warming discredited; editor-in-chief resigns.

    Global warming goes in cycles just as it has for millions of years. The legitimacy of the whole argument went out the window when the climate scientists in both the UK AND New Zealand were found to have manipulated data. Most of this climate "science" has been manipulated so that people like Al Gore could become multi-millionaires. The Artic ice cap reached it's smallest size on record (which only goes back to 1979) in. 2007, but it has been larger than that low point every year since and the ice cap in Antartica has actually grown significantly during the last decade. I believe mankind has a huge effect on our world with pollution but we are not the cause of our global temperatures going up or down, it's been happening for millions of years. A few years ago there were a number of panic based stories telling us that the ice cap would be GONE in a few years and that the Noethwest passage was totally navigable now by ship. Well. How do you think it got THAT name? It was navigated successfully in WOODEN ships in the late 1800's!

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    Re: Paper "debunking" global warming discredited; editor-in-chief resigns.

    Antiscience. Bachmann voter?

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    Re: Paper "debunking" global warming discredited; editor-in-chief resigns.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vis View Post
    It's not a question of whether it will kill us off. it won't as a species. It will kill off some species though. The question is, what kind of life will we have? If we had total control over the climate, our best interests lie in shrinking deserts and larger land masses. For that we need to cool.
    The things is, though, we can do everything humanly possible to limit "man-made" global warming, and the Earth will still create deserts and swallow up land masses on its own. The Sahara Desert wasn't created by global warming, it was created by plate tectonics and a shift in the tilt of the Earth's axis since it wobbles as it spins. Did these suddenly stop? And when we have another ice age, that is going to swallow up land masses because a whole lot of it will become uninhabitable due to glaciation. During the Medieval Warming Period over 900 years ago, Greenland was actually green, which is why Vikings settled there. When the warming ended and the Earth cooled, Greenland became covered with ice and made the land unfit for farming...which in turn caused the settlements to die off due to starvation. Interestingly enough, the same thing is happening now to Greenland as it did during the MWP - the ice is receding, and as such more people are living there and prospering. It's become a pretty well-known and researched point that man prospers the most when the Earth is warmer and suffers most when it's cooler. I'm not saying that we should continue to pollute the air or water or clear-cut forests. I want a clean environment. But let's use some common sense, rather than scare everyone to death or think someone's SUV is going to destroy the planet.








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    Re: Paper "debunking" global warming discredited; editor-in-chief resigns.

    Quote Originally Posted by X-Terminator View Post
    But let's use some common sense, rather than scare everyone to death or think someone's SUV is going to destroy the planet.
    I like Dennis Miller's idea. We don't develop new technology until we really need it, so we should all drive SUV's and sports cars so that we use up all the earth's oil FASTER. Then will find alternate energy...lol

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    Re: Paper "debunking" global warming discredited; editor-in-chief resigns.

    It's the cow farts!


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    Re: Paper "debunking" global warming discredited; editor-in-chief resigns.

    Quote Originally Posted by pepsyman1 View Post
    I like Dennis Miller's idea. We don't develop new technology until we really need it, so we should all drive SUV's and sports cars so that we use up all the earth's oil FASTER. Then will find alternate energy...lol
    We already possess the technology to quickly and cheaply reverse the greenhouse effect.
    Fire Goodell

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    Re: Paper "debunking" global warming discredited; editor-in-chief resigns.

    Quote Originally Posted by pepsyman1 View Post
    I like Dennis Miller's idea. We don't develop new technology until we really need it, so we should all drive SUV's and sports cars so that we use up all the earth's oil FASTER. Then will find alternate energy...lol
    And the countries that will be powerful in this century are doing the opposite. Live for today, learn chinese tomorrow.

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    Re: Paper "debunking" global warming discredited; editor-in-chief resigns.





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    Re: Paper "debunking" global warming discredited; editor-in-chief resigns.



    Fox News talking head admits facts and say they don't matter

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    Re: Paper "debunking" global warming discredited; editor-in-chief resigns.

    Quote Originally Posted by suitanim View Post
    We already possess the technology to quickly and cheaply reverse the greenhouse effect.
    Won't happen until the economics of it make it attractive. GM is losing money on every Volt they sell. When the ENTIRE operating AND production cost of alternate vehicles start to fall in line with the vehicles we have, then you will see them produced and sold in great numbers.

    My Mazda RX-8 thinks it's a Lamborghini and gets 16-17 mpg in normal driving if I'm not hitting 9 grand on the tach at every opportunity (14 mpg if I am..lol) I'm doing my part to encourage moving on to new technology....lol

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    Re: Paper "debunking" global warming discredited; editor-in-chief resigns.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vis View Post
    Antiscience. Bachmann voter?
    No offense Vis but do you EVER get tired of beating that drum? if you are going to insist on trying to find a corallary between anyone who disagrees with your view being "antiscience" and hence a Bachmann voter please explain how those things are all interconnected?

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    Re: Paper "debunking" global warming discredited; editor-in-chief resigns.

    Quote Originally Posted by Just George View Post
    No offense Vis but do you EVER get tired of beating that drum? if you are going to insist on trying to find a corallary between anyone who disagrees with your view being "antiscience" and hence a Bachmann voter please explain how those things are all interconnected?
    Bachmann was one choice in far too many republicans. A comprehensive list would take more time than I am willing to invest. Bachmann, in this case, stands for all anti-science candidates.

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    Re: Paper "debunking" global warming discredited; editor-in-chief resigns.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vis View Post
    Bachmann was one choice in far too many republicans. A comprehensive list would take more time than I am willing to invest. Bachmann, in this case, stands for all anti-science candidates.
    ok but how does that connect with anyone not agreeing with you = antiscience = bachmann voter. I think you say stuff like that to try to score debate points. If you can however broadly paint someone as "stupid enough to not believe in science (which is debated) they are Bachmann voters" I WIN. It is unneccessary and poor form in a real discussion. Stick to issues not name calling (and yes you use it as a pejorative, so it is name calling) Just saying

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    Re: Paper "debunking" global warming discredited; editor-in-chief resigns.

    Of the deniers here, who says the earth is not warming? Who says it's warming but it's not us? Who says it's warming and it's us but it really won't be that bad?

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    Re: Paper "debunking" global warming discredited; editor-in-chief resigns.

    Quote Originally Posted by Just George View Post
    ok but how does that connect with anyone not agreeing with you = antiscience = bachmann voter. I think you say stuff like that to try to score debate points. If you can however broadly paint someone as "stupid enough to not believe in science (which is debated) they are Bachmann voters" I WIN. It is unneccessary and poor form in a real discussion. Stick to issues not name calling (and yes you use it as a pejorative, so it is name calling) Just saying
    If you really like Bachmann I don't think we can connect. That may show some contempt but that contempt is real, honest, and well earned. Now go make you point on pejoratives in every post in SOAPBOX attacking Obama and liberals with name calling. You will be busy.

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    Re: Paper "debunking" global warming discredited; editor-in-chief resigns.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vis View Post
    If you really like Bachmann I don't think we can connect. That may show some contempt but that contempt is real, honest, and well earned. Now go make you point on pejoratives in every post in SOAPBOX attacking Obama and liberals with name calling. You will be busy.
    not a bachmann voter, sorry to disappoint. You can call her an idiot, a freak or what ever it is when you use her name to imply that anyone who does not agree with you MUST be a supporter of hers that doesn't work. If people want to call obama an idiot they can if in a discussion they try to imply you are an idiot for voting for Obama that is the same issue and a poor excuse for an argument. I was just saying that you fall back on that chestnut all the time and it does nothing to give credence to your side. There is enough info out there to discuss with out implying everyone on the other side is stupid.

    I think it is stupid that the media latched on to "global warming" and tries to frame the debate from that one issue. The origional study 30+ years ago, if I am not mistaken, talked about "climate change" it called for warmer summers, colder winters, severe storms, areas hit by drought others by flood. that is the issue to talk about is there evidence for global climate change.

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    Re: Paper "debunking" global warming discredited; editor-in-chief resigns.

    I'm speaking to the crowd, not you on Bachmann. If you are ignorant about the actual science backing up planetary warming, you must lack curiosity of the subject. It's readily available. Yes, industry backed answers to the studies can also be found like the one that started this thread.

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    Re: Paper "debunking" global warming discredited; editor-in-chief resigns.

    Here is a list of "enviro-Nazis" and "left-wing loonies" who believe that Anthropogenic Global Warming is real and well supported by sound science:
    Every major scientific institution dealing with climate, ocean, and/or atmosphere agrees that the climate is warming rapidly and the primary cause is human CO2 emissions. On top of that list, see also this joint statement [PDF] that specifically and unequivocally endorses the work and conclusions of the IPCC Third Assessment report, a statement issued by
    • Academia Brasiliera de Ciencias (Bazil)
    • Royal Society of Canada
    • Chinese Academy of Sciences
    • Academie des Sciences (France)
    • Deutsche Akademie der Naturforscher Leopoldina (Germany)
    • Indian National Science Academy
    • Accademia dei Lincei (Italy)
    • Science Council of Japan
    • Russian Academy of Sciences
    • Royal Society (United Kingdom)
    • National Academy of Sciences (United States of America)
    You can also read this one that includes all of the above signatories plus the following:
    • Australian Academy of Sciences
    • Royal Flemish Academy of Belgium for Sciences and the Arts
    • Caribbean Academy of Sciences
    • Indonesian Academy of Sciences
    • Royal Irish Academy
    • Academy of Sciences Malaysia
    • Academy Council of the Royal Society of New Zealand
    • Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences
    But if scientists are too liberal and politicians too unreliable, perhaps you would find the opinion of some of the bastions of industry more convincing?
    • Exxon-Mobile, the largest oil company in the world has this public statement:
      The risks to society and ecosystems from increases in CO2 emissions could prove to be significant, so it is prudent to develop and implement strategies that address the risks, keeping in mind the central importance of energy to the economies of the world.
    • Chevron, a bit less non-commital, says:
      At Chevron, we recognize and share the concerns of governments and the public about climate change. The use of fossil fuels to meet the world's energy needs is a contributor to an increase in greenhouse gases (GHGs) -- mainly carbon dioxide (CO2) and methane -- in the earth's atmosphere. There is a widespread view that this increase is leading to climate change, with adverse effects on the environment.
    • 18 CEO's of Canada's largest corporations had this to say in an open letter to the Prime Minister of Canada:
      Our organizations accept that a strong response is required to the strengthening evidence in the scientific assessments of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC). We accept the IPCC consensus that climate change raises the risk of severe consequences for human health and security and the environment. We note that Canada is particularly vulnerable to the impacts of climate change.

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    Re: Paper "debunking" global warming discredited; editor-in-chief resigns.

    You can find just as much scientific data pointing to whatever you want at this point.

    From Rutgers University Data:
    Largest amount of snow cover in the northern hemisphere in the last 40 years
    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/02/1...rd/#more-16489

    From the National Climate Data Center
    2009 US winter temps well below normal
    http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories...912_201002.gif

    From the Daily Mail in the UK
    Siberia may have had their coldest winter ever recorded
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...st-record.html

    From the Daily Mail
    Britain has coldest December ever recorded this past winter:
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...s-Britain.html

    BTW...half your links are no longer active pages and some of the others are 8 to 12 years old. WE are not the cause of the climate going up down or sideways....FOLLOW the MONEY. Does climate change happen? YES...just as it has for millions of years and will continue to do so. The authorities and scientists that have called out loudest about the dreaded global warming are all people that have a financial interest in it. All of these scientists have gotten more funding than they have ever imagined possible...people like Al Gore have watched their net worth skyrocket by promoting this fear.
    Last edited by pepsyman1; 09-05-2011 at 04:31 PM.

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    Re: Paper "debunking" global warming discredited; editor-in-chief resigns.

    Quote Originally Posted by pepsyman1 View Post
    You can find just as much scientific data pointing to whatever you want at this point.

    From Rutgers University Data:
    Largest amount of snow cover in the northern hemisphere in the last 40 years
    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/02/1...rd/#more-16489

    From the National Climate Data Center
    2009 US winter temps well below normal
    http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories...912_201002.gif

    From the Daily Mail in the UK
    Siberia may have had their coldest winter ever recorded
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...st-record.html

    From the Daily Mail
    Britain has coldest December ever recorded this past winter:
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...s-Britain.html


    You are in the "earth not warming" camp. Trends and averages are calculated from data points. Pointing at one piece of data like it proves the trend shows either a lack of knowledge or willful misrepresentation.


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    Re: Paper "debunking" global warming discredited; editor-in-chief resigns.


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    Re: Paper "debunking" global warming discredited; editor-in-chief resigns.

    And from the country that still hunts whales:

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    Re: Paper "debunking" global warming discredited; editor-in-chief resigns.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vis View Post
    Of the deniers here, who says the earth is not warming? Who says it's warming but it's not us? Who says it's warming and it's us but it really won't be that bad?
    In Sweden it's actually getting colder....

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