Sorry Zu, I'm not interested in reading that article.
Can you briefly summarize it for me - that's where it will probably become interesting.
Sorry Zu, I'm not interested in reading that article.
Can you briefly summarize it for me - that's where it will probably become interesting.
Now Shea you know im not "sassin" you, Im stating my opinion just like you. Ben did nothing illegal. Nothing. A strong enough message would have been a suspension from the Rooney's if they are the ones that think he needs a wake up call. Why tell the commish to do that?Originally Posted by Shea
2-3 games would have been the best suspension. Its multiple games that may wake him up yet it isnt way out of line either.
He needed to be suspended, just not 6 games.
"Clear Eyes, Full Hearts, Can't Lose"~Rest In Peace HometownGal~
Sees what? I don't think there is a single person here who believes Ben didn't put himself in a bad situation or make a bad decision. Not one. What we have been arguing is whether or not a 4-6 game suspension by the league was warranted based on the outcome of the investigation. We have highly questionable statements from a drunken girl who was wearing a "Down To Fuck" pin on her shirt. This girl was also following Ben around like a lost puppy and then WILLINGLY engaged in sexual talk/flirting with him at that bar. We have an investigation that did not produce any charges because of lack of evidence. We also have another case where a woman claimed sexual assault and waited a YEAR to sue him, and has a case so full of holes it's not even funny. How does ANY of that warrant ANY kind of suspension, much less a 4-6 game suspension? It does not. I still don't believe he should have been suspended by the league at all, but I would have accepted 2 games. If the team wanted to suspend Ben, I would have had no issue with that as well - it's their franchise, and they have their own standards that every player must abide by. 4-6 games is unreasonable, period, and not at all fitting of the "offense" committed. By doing this, he has set a precedent, and now any time a player is simply accused of a crime, he should be subject to the same punishment. Plain and simple. Anything less is hypocrisy.
Summary really is:
1. When the McNulty incident happened in Reno, Ben came out publicly and flatly denied any wrongdoing and then also countersued for defamation.
2. When the Georgia incident happened, he got Ray Lewis' defense attorney, said nothing, was admonished by the District Attourney for acting immorally, then suspended by Roger Goodell and entered a treatment program. He was also given up for trade bait before the NFL draft.
#2 is what happens to guilty people with money. Guilty people without money normally goto prison. Be thankful that Ben is only gonna serve a 4 game suspension and try to forget it as much as Ben is trying to forget it. If you are truly fans of Ben, stop brining up the incident to try and defend him.
the difference is #1 was filed a year later, and in case #2 charges were being brought immediately oh yea RAPE charges, not some civil case.
IMO its apples to oranges between the two
"Clear Eyes, Full Hearts, Can't Lose"~Rest In Peace HometownGal~
So then, we'll be expecting Vince Young's suspension announcement soon?
Hard to believe there are so many people who absolutely refuse to consider anything else about this case. It's "he's guilty, and that's that."
I know Gordon. I'm just playing with ya. And he won't be suspended for 6 games, he'll be back after four.
Jesus Christ, calm down.
The Rooney's were in contact with Goodell well before Ben went to NY to have his little sit down with Goodell and I believe there is a reason for that. And as a side note, ever wonder how Ben came across in that meeting?? Hmmmm .....
Sure the team could have punished Ben themselves, but that probably would have backfired.
Ben is a sulky immature, inflated ego. Take it out of the Rooney's hands and you dodge not only a bullet of resentment but put it within a man's hands that therefore wouldn't sacrifice relationships within the franchise.
I don't care about the number of games he's been suspended - which will only be four - I'm more concerned about our future and that hopefully what the Rooney's in compliance with Goodell did will result in many years of Ben being our quarterback. Win for Ben and win for us Steelers fans.
See that?
Yes but the suspension is techinally 6 that could be reduced to 4...so as of right now its still 6, which isnt right.I know Gordon. I'm just playing with ya. And he won't be suspended for 6 games, he'll be back after four.
I agree it will be reduced to 4, but thats not the point.
"Clear Eyes, Full Hearts, Can't Lose"~Rest In Peace HometownGal~
Well, last I remember, Ben showed up to that meeting with Goodell in a suit and a haircut. Which means he knew he had to put forth a much better image than he did for his first "apology" after the incident, when he showed up in a polo shirt, a mullet and an attitude. Whether that was his call or the Rooney's call, it was still the correct decision and it likely helped Ben's case during his meeting. And it is pure speculation on how he came across in that meeting - nobody knows, and nobody will ever know other than Ben and Der Kommissar.
How do you know the team punishing Ben would have backfired? Especially if that punishment involved games and the clear threat of being cut or traded? The league's punishment could backfire too, so that's not really a good argument.
Yes, Ben has/had an overinflated ego. Yes, he needed to be brought down several notches. No argument there. I just preferred that the TEAM handle it, and not the league, especially considering the precedent has now been set. In some ways, I guess you can say the team did handle it, because they were the ones who got Goodell to only suspend him for 4-6 games, because he was prepared to suspend him indefinitely. Now had he done that, would you still have agreed with it? Would you believe that punishment fit the "offense" committed?
We can argue this until we're both blue, but I will never agree that this was a fair suspension. It's bullshit. And now considering what else has happened since then and all of the incidents that have pretty much been swept under the rug...it's even more bullshit.
Yes, even without the haircut, nobody knows what went on in that meeting with Goodell, therefore it's something to consider that it probably went bad and added to Ben's punishment. Just a guess here ....
How do I know if the Steelers themselves punishing Ben would have backfired? Well, let's look at Ben's past history.
His relationship with Bradshaw for telling him to get rid of the motorcycle that then cemented their relationship as shit, even though Terry was right - years later still the resentment.
Cowher - looks like they've finally made amends, but ever see the footage of XL where Ben pretty much shits on him with his verbal and body languange. Again years later after the fact - but desperate times sometimes have good results.
Ummmm - Whiz. Not gonna shake his hand when playing in Arizona. Years .... still can't let it go Ben.
God there's a trillion examples. Ben's forum was the first I ever came across, and read it and participated within in for awhile and seen so many bad aspects of Ben within it that I lost count.
He's immature. And maybe he's now changed after all this that has happened to him. But to think he wouldn't hold a grudge against the Rooney's if they had solely been the ones to hand down a punishment is naive.
Even I know this, and they know so much more about him than I or anyone on this board - hence their reaching out to the Commish for help.
So only guilty people need lawyers??? Say it aint so!!!
I have seen it first hand a guy who was hung out to dry in a court martial because he spoke without having a lawyer present. He got completely raked over the coals and his wife who was the one smoking pot in base housing walked away scott free. This is the very short story and getting a lawyer doesn't make you guilty just smart to protect yourself.
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While every professional sports league should have some discretion to impose discipline when a player engages in serious misconduct, there must be some meaningful standard by which to determine such discipline. Under any meaningful standard, and using prior suspensions imposed by Goodell (also rendered under the I know it when I see it standard), Roethlisberger should not have been suspended for 4 games. Not to be repetitive, but emphasis is necessary: there have been no criminal charges filed against him, much less any convictions. There hasnt even been sworn testimony produced regarding these incidents. Roethlisbergers penalty is the result of a statement to police given by an admittedly highly intoxicated individual, and a civil complaint (by a woman seeking significant monetary damages). This is not evidence that leads a reasonable person to a certain conclusion of wrongdoing that would rise to the level of a 4 game suspension.
Roethlisbergers suspension is clearly the result of Goodells public relations antennae twitching uncontrollably. Goodell is concerned that any suspension of less than 4 games would result in serious public backlash (his PR concern is highlighted by the fact that it was announced as a 6 game suspension, when in reality, it is a 4 game suspension). However, while the NFL certainly has the right to be concerned with respect to public relations issues, a players rights, and the integrity of the disciplinary system (as flawed as it is) cannot be thrown to the wind for public relations reasons. Players have rights, even when they engage in misconduct. Roger Goodell has an obligation to respect those rights. In this case, he didnt.
"A man's got to know his limitations."
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If the Rooney's had suspended Ben, he very easily could have appealed it to the NFLPA. Instead they gave it to a higher up and let them deal with it. And as I have said, if it causes him to re-examine his life then so what. He had to have more then a slap on the wrist, it had to hurt him and it sounds like that is exactly what has happened. I believe his agent has said that Ben wants to make this a positive turning point in his life.
If you have a child who gets in trouble they will have two consequences. 1. is the natural consequence (i.e for Ben the embarrassment and the fans reaction) 2. is the one you hand out (for Ben its the suspension). And no matter what happens you have to make them learn their lesson no matter how hard it is to watch, other wise it has no meaning or baring on their decision making in the future. Ben HAS to make a decision. Is he going to clean up his life or is he going to continue? There is a lot at stack if he doesn't, but at least by having the suspension so harsh, NO ONE can say they didn't try to reach him.
It does not matter to me what the commish does with other players. I care about my franchise QB and his ability to be on the field. And if it has to hurt us for the first few games of one season then so be it. I want Ben to be on the field in black and gold a whole lot longer then one season.
The thing about Ben is that I have heard some really great stories and some really awful stories. I think that some are exaggerated greatly. If you listen to some he has slept with half of the ladies of Pittsburgh. But he also seems to have a heart of gold when it comes to children. And I don't know him or pretend to know him, but he seems to be a decent guy.
Now for Ben's part he has been contrite. I mean he admitted that he got caught up in what was happening to him. I don't think any one of us can pretend to understand what that is like. Or know that the same thing wouldn't happen to us if we were in that same situation. Only time will really tell. And if it doesn't then Ben won't be a steeler anymore. But I think we are all rooting for him to get his life straight so it doesn't effect his ability to play anymore.
And for the record I do not believe that Ben is guilty of anything but bad decisions.
A-fucking-MEN.
Which is NOT punishable with a 4-6 game suspension by a kangaroo court Commish with little man complex who is as inconsistent with his disciplines as the day is long.
CANCER - YOU PICKED THE WRONG BITCH!!!
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Siss, Ben could have appealed this suspension. If he had been my son he would have taken it to appelate court after Goodell rubber stamped his intitial findings and sought a stay of sentence from the court. Having talked to several lawyers I think he quite likely could have prevented Goodell from imposing sentence for the entirety of the season if Goodell was unwilling to reduce the suspension. That he didn't exercise his reasonable right to appeal was in my opinion due to an agreement he made with the Rooney's to accept the league's punishment without complaint if he wanted to remain a Steeler.
"A man's got to know his limitations."
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Re: The Media Lynching of Ben Roethlisberger
Good summation.A-fucking-MEN.
Which is NOT punishable with a 4-6 game suspension by a kangaroo court Commish with little man complex who is as inconsistent with his disciplines as the day is long.
"A man's got to know his limitations."
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I don't care if he is consistent. I care about my team. And my franchise players ability to be on the field. Ben is our best chance at winning Super Bowls. end of story.
If he was my son I would tell him that he brought it on himself and he needs to look deep with in himself and figure out why this is happening. I would hold my son accountable for what happened and make sure he looked within himself to make changes.
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Here's my question. What happens if sometime in the not too distant future the young lady who accused Ben of sexual assualt in Georgia comes foward and admits that no non consentual contact occured between her and Ben? Were she also to admit that the accusation came about as a result of a personal sense of shame and that it was further fueled by suggestion and peer pressure from her sorority sisters, who while not encouraging her to lie spoon fed her what at the time seemed to be a plausible face saving story.
In my opinion this is the most likely scenario of what really happened. So say this truth eventually comes out, how many games should Ben have been suspened then?
"A man's got to know his limitations."
Let me ask you something, siss. If your son acted like a pickle head and made some bad judgments in his life but wasn't convicted of a crime and/or tried and convicted in a court of law, was suspended from his job without pay for 4-6 weeks and unfairly condemned to hell and back while his co-workers get off scott free for behaviors far worse and are actually charged with crimes - would you, as his Mother, be able to just idly stand by? Sure - if it was my son - I would most definitely hold him accountable for his own poor decisions and strongly insist he get professional counseling to help him turn his life around (this occuring after beating his ass with a baseball bat) but you bet your sweet bippy I would feel he was unjustly villified and discriminated against, as I feel Ben is in the matter at hand. Imho - it was not up to Goodell to hold his own kangaroo court and impose a sanction against Ben. It was up to the Rooneys - as his employer - to take whatever actions they deemed appropriate and I highly doubt it would have been a 4-6 game suspension.
CANCER - YOU PICKED THE WRONG BITCH!!!
I think whether or not this suspension is ultimately in the best interest of Ben and the Steelers is an interesting discussion, but it is kind of a side thought when it comes to what I believe is the original point of this thread.
What were all the factors that contributed to this particular punishment imposed by the commissioner? Was it motivated by the desire for pure justice, or political expedience and public relations?
A lot of us believe there was a great deal of the latter involved, and for good reason. The NFL is ultimately a private organization and can have arbitrary rules if it so chooses, but we as fans who love the game have the right, and I believe the obligation, to point out what we believe are injustices and hypocrisy that damage the game. Only by shouting out loudly and often is there even the possibility that the backlash can reach the the minds of the general public so that perhaps it will be more damaging to the NFL's PR machine to be unjust and hypocritical in the future.
Imagine if just one really prominent journalist is persuaded by our arguments and decides to put Goodell's picture on the cover of SI with the title "Hypocrite?" next to it. If inside there were an article listing all the various moral and legal infractions committed by NFL players who received less punishment than Ben or no punishment at all, do you think that could maybe, just maybe, shift public opinion enough so that the Grand Inquisitor would have to think twice before handing down his next unjust punishment?
This will most likely not happen, but just the remote chance that it might makes these discussions worthwhile.
So no, I will not move on, and I will not stop discussing it.
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Great post Hollywood Steel!
"A man's got to know his limitations."
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I don't disagree with you here. However I only care about my son. He is the one I want the best for, not the other mothers sons. If he was unjustly vilified then that is part of the consequence. Would I be in the principals office complaining? You bet, but its the part of the consequence fair or not.Let me ask you something, siss. If your son acted like a pickle head and made some bad judgments in his life but wasn't convicted of a crime and/or tried and convicted in a court of law, was suspended from his job without pay for 4-6 weeks and unfairly condemned to hell and back while his co-workers get off scott free for behaviors far worse and are actually charged with crimes - would you, as his Mother, be able to just idly stand by? Sure - if it was my son - I would most definitely hold him accountable for his own poor decisions and strongly insist he get professional counseling to help him turn his life around (this occuring after beating his ass with a baseball bat
I think that in the future the NFLPA needs to address the issue. There needs to be an arbitrator. It can be called the Ben Clause.
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I agree that Goodell has entirely to much power and has proven he'll use it as HE SEES FIT. Whether it is to cover something up or whatever he feels is in the best interest of his best interest. I honestly think he could give a Rat's ass about player safety or league integrity. As for the integrity,if he cared he'd FIRE HIMSELF!!!
I second that.
WE are the NFL's All-Time Dynasty!
Thanks guys.
I think the main reason that this topic is once again boiling blood amongst Steelers fans is the Vince Young situation. I googled "Vince Young Suspension" and google didn't finish the last word for me. No one's even googling about it. Trying just typing Ben R", see what you get.
So when I did pull up something about a possible Vince Young suspension I get this:
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/pla...=174937&spln=1
Here's what kills me:
"It's believed that Young is unlikely to face a suspension as a first-time offender under the league's Personal Conduct Policy"
Seriously? I defy you to find just one journalist who said this about Ben. They uniformly spouted out things like, "The commissioner has to suspend Ben. It's just a matter of how many games." But wasn't this Ben's first violation of the vague conduct policy as well?
This is why we suspect that the tail wags the dog. Now if the commissioner goes ahead and suspends Young despite what the press thinks, I will commend him for it.
Just the thought of Vince Young coming out of the tunnel week two against the Steelers while Ben has to watch the game from home makes my skin crawl. Let's hope that doesn't happen.
No, I think the point that I was making is that when Ben was accused in Nevada, he acted like a man falsely accused of farting in public and didnt go out of his way to hire a high profile lawyer.
In the Millidgeville incident, he hired the Lawyer that defended Ray Lewis in a Murder trial and didnt speak for months. Fact is that Ben was rather casual after what happend in NV. but seems very remorseful and much more serious after what happened in Ga.
I think the kid got away with one in Ga. and is extremely lucky that he is only gonna serve a 4 game suspension and got dropped by his Beef Jerky sponsor.
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Ummmm the first one was Civil and the other one was criminal. Huge difference.No, I think the point that I was making is that when Ben was accused in Nevada, he acted like a man falsely accused of farting in public and didnt go out of his way to hire a high profile lawyer.
In the Millidgeville incident, he hired the Lawyer that defended Ray Lewis in a Murder trial and didnt speak for months. Fact is that Ben was rather casual after what happend in NV. but seems very remorseful and much more serious after what happened in Ga.
I think the kid got away with one in Ga. and is extremely lucky that he is only gonna serve a 4 game suspension and got dropped by his Beef Jerky sponsor.
Welcome to the new America where you shoot first and ask questions later......................We are taking our Country Back as is Backward
Thats right, in NV the alleged sex took place after the accuser had gone up to Ben's hotel room, while in Ga. the alleged sex took place after he followed the accuser into the women's bathroom and she allegedly said "NO".
Damn media!!! They are truly to blame.
It is time to move on and, let's see how Ben acts from here on out. I think he knows that he must keep his nose clean from here on out.
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