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Thread: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

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    "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    Ran across this on a site and just had to post... lol. I don't know about you, but to me it's hilarious (actually, I can't tell if this guys joking, or he's really serious) ... but... enjoy.

    Article:

    A grand old cult

    By Richard Cohen, Published: July 4

    Someone ought to study the Republican Party. I am not referring to yet another political scientist but to a mental health professional...

    LINK: http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinio...ByH_story.html

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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    No, he's not joking. And, in a way, he has a valid point (The GOP is being stubbornly unbending about tax increases when it's obvious that even large segments of their own constituents actually WANT them)...the problem is, he's confusing his point of view with the GOP's actually having standards and principles. Really, what are a liberal Democrats principles? Cradle-to-Grave big government, paid for by soaking every single tax nickel from the most productive members of society to redistribute it to the least?

    It's easy to criticize, and paint a picture of people who feel differently as being "A Cult". It's incendiary, and it also (at least ostensibly, although the idea falls apart under any kind of scrutiny) kind of resembles the old image of one drowning man saving himself by standing on the shoulders of the poor guy next to him who is also drowning. Rather than seriously discuss ideological differences, better just bash "the other" and try to discredit them. Maureen Dowd is a master at this tactic.
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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    I'm sorry but if you take a look at Pelosi that bitch leans closer to cult status then anyone I see in the GOP.
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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    Seems to me the lefty libs are more of a cult. If you don't agree your a racist.

    Harvard Study: Fourth Of July A Right-Wing Holiday

    A new Harvard Study shows Fourth of July celebrations turn kids into Republicans and are good for Republican candidates.

    “The political right has been more successful in appropriating American patriotism and its symbols during the 20th century. Survey evidence also confirms that Republicans consider themselves more patriotic than Democrats. According to this interpretation, there is a political congruence between the patriotism promoted on Fourth of July and the values associated with the Republican party. Fourth of July celebrations in Republican dominated counties may thus be more politically biased events that socialize children into Republicans,” write Harvard Kennedy School Assistant Professor David Yanagizawa-Drott and Bocconi University Assistant Professor Andreas Madestam.
    http://www.alan.com/2011/06/30/harva...-wing-holiday/

    IF you believe that the blood sacrifice of thousands of military service members is not worth honoring with a parade on July 4th, then you obviously must hate America and plan on voting for Obama again.



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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    The dichotomy and self-contradiction always amuse me. This columnist pretends to take the high road, quoting the audacity of an Auschwitz reference, then sticks the same pin in his own balloon by calling the GOP a cult.
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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    Did this assclown spend 2008 in a cave? You wanna talk about cultish, look at some of the Obots, especially during the campaign.

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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    (The GOP is being stubbornly unbending about tax increases when it's obvious that even large segments of their own constituents actually WANT them)
    Can I get a quick hands up from everyone that WANTS tax increases? I must say, in my travels, I have never met an individual that WANTED tax increases. My circle of life may be small, I grant you, that is why I am asking here if anybody WANTS tax increases. I mean, I live in the socialized Great White North where we have "free" health care and subsidized post secondary education and the streets are paved with gold, but I have never met anyone that WANTED tax increases.

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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    Ooops!

    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...ixed-approach/

    Several polls ask people if taxes should be increased on people who make more than $250,000. Polls show substantial majorities support the idea. We found majorities of 72 percent, 64 percent, and 59 percent. (Those are from April polls by ABC News/Washington Post, McClatchy-Marist, and USA Today/Gallup, respectively.)

    On whether corporations pay enough in taxes, Gallup found that 67 percent said they pay too little.

    A Reuters/Ipsos poll conducted at the beginning of May found that most people, 52 percent, favored a combination of cuts and tax increases. The NBC/Washington Post poll from April found that number was even higher, at 59 percent.



    The people have spoken: It's time for the GOP to bend a little and compromise.
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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    Well then, that settles it. I aim to make $249,999 a year one day, because apparently making $250,000 a year makes you the damn devil.

    Where is the incentive to achieve any kind of success and wealth if the damn government is just going to come in and take it all? Screw that. May as well not even bother.








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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    I don't advocate increasing taxes for people in the 250k-1 million range. They ARE job creators and in many cases an even few-point increase in taxes can mess with margins.

    But there is little in the way of a compelling argument to say that a guy making 10 million a year can't pay an extra 4% in taxes, especially when the evidence is overwhelmingly likely that his income has doubled or tripled over the last two decades.
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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by suitanim View Post
    I don't advocate increasing taxes for people in the 250k-1 million range. They ARE job creators and in many cases an even few-point increase in taxes can mess with margins.

    But there is little in the way of a compelling argument to say that a guy making 10 million a year can't pay an extra 4% in taxes, especially when the evidence is overwhelmingly likely that his income has doubled or tripled over the last two decades.
    There is no need to increase tax rates for the person making $10 million a year if loopholes are closed, so that they pay the full amount they owe. It's ridiculous that an individual can hire an accountant and have their tax bill reduced to less than what I pay percentage-wise. I'd be willing to do that so long as they keep rates exactly where they are, and that they don't burden small businesses with higher taxes.








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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    It just depends on the details of what and how the government is trying to tax.
    If a person's "personal" income is being taxed, and I "think" that's what the government is after, then that's usually "not" the money that person would use to create jobs. A $250,000 + "job creator" can be listed as a "proprietor" or "corporation". If the government is trying to tax "business income" or the "personal income"... two totally different things.
    If someone's personal income is being taxed, and they have a corporation, then the job creating money is "not" being taxed.
    If they are listed as a proprietor, then the job creation money "might" be taxed... but even a proprietor "should" have money allocated for "business expenses" and money allocated for "personal" expenses... so it is possible, if their keeping their accounting standards correct, to tax a person's personal income (therefore they cut back on personal needs) and NOT effect the money that's set aside to run a business or professional operation... knowing this, I think the $250K + folks will be alright. But if I understand, their actual tax rate will not increase, just the 'loop-holes' removed.

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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    For clarification, I also agree that closing loopholes is the very best way to raise revenues, ESPECIALLY corporately. In fact, although it sounds counterintuitive, the best way to eliminate a company like GE from effectively almost eradicating it's tax burden is to simultaneously LOWER the corporate income tax rate to 25% while also closing the loopholes that enable them to slink out of paying anything at all.

    But here's the rub (actually, rubs). A) Corporately, it just ain't gonna happen. ALL these dudes, Dem and GOP are snugly in bed with corporations. B) HUGE lobbying power from those corporations C) Giant PAC's and political contributions from the people these changes would hurt worst, like accountants and tax attorneys. D) Individually, closing loopholes is something that takes a lot of time, and we don't have it. There is a very good chance that W's tax cuts will be rolled back next year, at least at the top. The GOP would, in effect, simply be sacrificing something which will almost certainly be gone next year anyway, and they'd get an awful lot in return.

    In a word, (individually speaking), raising the rate 4% on the top .01% is simpler.
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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    They can raise taxes all they want but as long as they continue to spend the way they spend what good is it going to do? It will be + 4% today , then later another 4% then another 4%. At what point should the government be held accountable and not rewarded with their hands deeper in someone else's pocket. What right does the Government have to tax people 50-60% and dig their hands in whenever they 'need' to? At what point do we say "STOP TAKING OUR MONEY AND GET YOUR SHIT TOGETHER!" It's all spiraling out of control and more taxes are just a band-aid to buy us more time until we all really hit the skids.

    Let's say they raise taxes tomorrow to 'help' our deficit but how long before more spendulus bills come down the pike completely undoing any 'savings' or debt reductions.

    I just hope to God that Hopey is a one and done president.
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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    The tax rate has been historically low, especially for the wealthiest individuals. We haven't had 50-60% tax rates since Carter, and nobody will stand for those kinds of rates...Laffer Curve and all that again.

    It is a red herring to say that the wealthiest Americans are taxed too much, or that taxes are going "up and up and up". They are, in fact, and have been for some time, going "down and down and down". The individual tax rate in the top bracket is the lowest it's been since the early 30's, and the Capital Gains Tax (which also heavily effects that same bracket) is also at it's lowest level in 80 years.

    But, besides all that, even raising taxes on that very tippy-top tier of people isn't either going to bust them, nor will it raise all that much money. That isn't the true point of the exercise (and people seem to be missing the point here in general). This is NOT a tax increase to solve the countries financial woes, rather a tax increase done in the spirit of cooperative compromise. Even Mitch McConnell is starting to figure out that if the GOP doesn't budge on this issue, and the US goes into default because the GOP REFUSED TO RAISE TAXES A FEW POINTS ON THE WEALTHIEST, the GOP will suffer horrendous defeats and set-backs in 2012.
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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    Your mom..


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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by suitanim View Post
    The tax rate has been historically low, especially for the wealthiest individuals. We haven't had 50-60% tax rates since Carter, and nobody will stand for those kinds of rates...Laffer Curve and all that again.

    It is a red herring to say that the wealthiest Americans are taxed too much, or that taxes are going "up and up and up". They are, in fact, and have been for some time, going "down and down and down". The individual tax rate in the top bracket is the lowest it's been since the early 30's, and the Capital Gains Tax (which also heavily effects that same bracket) is also at it's lowest level in 80 years.

    But, besides all that, even raising taxes on that very tippy-top tier of people isn't either going to bust them, nor will it raise all that much money. That isn't the true point of the exercise (and people seem to be missing the point here in general). This is NOT a tax increase to solve the countries financial woes, rather a tax increase done in the spirit of cooperative compromise. Even Mitch McConnell is starting to figure out that if the GOP doesn't budge on this issue, and the US goes into default because the GOP REFUSED TO RAISE TAXES A FEW POINTS ON THE WEALTHIEST, the GOP will suffer horrendous defeats and set-backs in 2012.
    They will suffer defeats if they do budge on it, because the TEA Partiers will make sure of it. Like I've mentioned before, every time the GOP has agreed to tax increases in exchange for spending cuts, they ended up getting kicked in the dick by the Dems. So I completely understand why they're taking a hard line and insist on spending cuts without raising taxes before they agree to raise the debt ceiling. They simply do not trust the Democrats, and I for one can't blame them. Having said all of that, there will be a deal struck at the 11th hour like always, and no one will be happy with it.








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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    It is also wrong of the GOP to be held hostage by the TEA Party...all indications are that the THEY are the ones who simply refuse to believe that defaulting on our debts will crush the economy.

    They are wrong.

    It will.

    It's not something to be trifled with, and we're in an extremely difficult position now because of their basic lack of understanding of how the economy works and functions. I've bumped some members of the TEA Party to my list of dangerous extremists because of this. Nothing is scarier to me than than the prospect of someone in the ilk of that idiot Michelle Bachmann, who CLEARLY has absolutely no concept of how the debt ceiling actually works, wielding any power than the already dangerous amount she has. We are in the 11th hour here, and this is deadly serious stuff...

    To see her sit there and say "Oh, we CAN pay all our bills if we don't raise the debt ceiling", then call anyone who disagrees with her a liar is beyond the pale...

    Oh, and one more thing: As far as election go, there is simply no way that one wing of one party is going to effect the entire outcome of the 2012 elections. What will the TEA Party say? "WE are responsible for the US defaulting, and all the ensuing chaos, so elect MORE of us?"
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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    Only ONE in FIVE REPUBLICANS favor cuts only deficit reduction. Bear in mind, this is not a poll of everyone, not of Democrats, not Democrats and Independents, but only GOP voters.

    http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/v...164116196.html

    Most respondents stressed that they would prefer spending cuts over tax increases as part of the deal currently under negotiation between Republicans and the White House. But the level of opposition to tax hikes is not nearly as strong as Republicans make it out to be, according to a new Gallup poll.

    Just one in five voters said they want the debt deal to include spending cuts only--the path outlined by House and Senate Republicans who say they will refuse any plan that raises taxes. More surprisingly, just 26 percent of Republican voters said they wouldn't support a deal if it included tax hikes.
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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    All of this is going to be moot, because the debt ceiling will ultimately be raised. But dammit, I had better see some REAL commitment to curbing spending, so we don't have to keep revisiting this every year. I'm not holding my breath on that.








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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by X-Terminator View Post
    All of this is going to be moot, because the debt ceiling will ultimately be raised. But dammit, I had better see some REAL commitment to curbing spending, so we don't have to keep revisiting this every year. I'm not holding my breath on that.
    My sentiments exactly.

    I also agree with the overall idea on this thread. Lower taxes and cut out almost all loopholes. The only ones I'd keep open is the self-employed tax breaks and the mortgage interest tax breaks. Those two incentives are going to be needed to get our economy moving over the next few years.


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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    I hope you guys are right...
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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by suitanim View Post
    Ooops!

    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...ixed-approach/

    Several polls ask people if taxes should be increased on people who make more than $250,000. Polls show substantial majorities support the idea. We found majorities of 72 percent, 64 percent, and 59 percent. (Those are from April polls by ABC News/Washington Post, McClatchy-Marist, and USA Today/Gallup, respectively.)

    On whether corporations pay enough in taxes, Gallup found that 67 percent said they pay too little.

    A Reuters/Ipsos poll conducted at the beginning of May found that most people, 52 percent, favored a combination of cuts and tax increases. The NBC/Washington Post poll from April found that number was even higher, at 59 percent.



    The people have spoken: It's time for the GOP to bend a little and compromise.
    Ohh, so you are saying the GOP wants everyone elses taxes to go up. Especially the evil rich wicked ones that make more than 10M.

    Why is it OK to support tax increases for the rich and not OK to hold our damn governments accountable? Deficit spending has to stop. There is no way that governments will stop if the populace continues to embrace class warfare and class envy. The rich are not the enemy, the government and its intrusive, ever spiraling spending habits is.

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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by X-Terminator View Post
    All of this is going to be moot, because the debt ceiling will ultimately be raised. But dammit, I had better see some REAL commitment to curbing spending, so we don't have to keep revisiting this every year. I'm not holding my breath on that.
    I agree with you XT. However, I don't think you and I will see reduced government spending in our lifetimes. Sad.

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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelerEmpire View Post
    It just depends on the details of what and how the government is trying to tax.
    If a person's "personal" income is being taxed, and I "think" that's what the government is after, then that's usually "not" the money that person would use to create jobs. A $250,000 + "job creator" can be listed as a "proprietor" or "corporation". If the government is trying to tax "business income" or the "personal income"... two totally different things.
    If someone's personal income is being taxed, and they have a corporation, then the job creating money is "not" being taxed.
    If they are listed as a proprietor, then the job creation money "might" be taxed... but even a proprietor "should" have money allocated for "business expenses" and money allocated for "personal" expenses... so it is possible, if their keeping their accounting standards correct, to tax a person's personal income (therefore they cut back on personal needs) and NOT effect the money that's set aside to run a business or professional operation... knowing this, I think the $250K + folks will be alright. But if I understand, their actual tax rate will not increase, just the 'loop-holes' removed.
    Wrong.......How do you think people start a business? It's usually comes from personal income. Obaaaaamas tax plan does not differentiate between the two, (personal or business)if your a business owner, you basically get dinged twice.

    What the asshat needs to do is go after big corps like GE that paid ZERO for taxes and leave small business alone.


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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach1 View Post
    Wrong.......How do you think people start a business? It's usually comes from personal income. Obaaaaamas tax plan does not differentiate between the two, (personal or business)if your a business owner, you basically get dinged twice.

    What the asshat needs to do is go after big corps like GE that paid ZERO for taxes and leave small business alone.
    Of course smaller businesses use personal income in the start-up phase (if one "continues" to use personal income for an extended period of time, their usually in the 'red'), but if he's targeting corporate tax's there may be a reaction in the market. If 50 million seniors have to take on an average 6K burden a year, then the customer base of business will shrink on the other end... it's a lose-lose situation all the way around...

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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelerEmpire View Post
    Of course smaller businesses use personal income in the start-up phase (if one "continues" to use personal income for an extended period of time, their usually in the 'red'),

    That's not true. Many small businesses, such as roofers, plumbers, etc., all have their personal and business income combined as one, and continue to do so for years. For those people, they may get an average of 1.5 roofing contracts a week (Let's say), for $4000 each. . That's around $310,000 a year that is considered personal income, since it isn't done under a corporation. Out of that, the owner has to pay for the workers, (Say, two workers each, two days of roofing each job and 15 an hour)

    That reduces it to 272,000 a year.
    average 2000 per job on supplies (100 per square, 20 squares) (small homes) equal 208,000 on supplies, for a total of 64,000 a year.

    Now, that is a guy that has employed two others part time. He is making 64,000 a year. But if he gets his taxes raised and loopholes cut, he will have to pay taxes 310,000 a year. At just 30 percent, that is 60,000 for everything over 100,000 dollars made. So, if he doesn't have to pay taxes on ANYTHING he makes for the first 100,000-- he will only clear 4000 a year.

    Do any of you want to live on 4000 a year?

    That is why tax breaks should extend all the way up to 500,000. That is why loopholes should also remain for self-employed people. They are the ones that provide the jobs, and also drive down overall cost with lots of competition in the marketplace.


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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by Preacher View Post
    That's not true. Many small businesses, such as roofers, plumbers, etc., all have their personal and business income combined as one, and continue to do so for years. For those people, they may get an average of 1.5 roofing contracts a week (Let's say), for $4000 each. . That's around $310,000 a year that is considered personal income, since it isn't done under a corporation. Out of that, the owner has to pay for the workers, (Say, two workers each, two days of roofing each job and 15 an hour)

    That reduces it to 272,000 a year.
    average 2000 per job on supplies (100 per square, 20 squares) (small homes) equal 208,000 on supplies, for a total of 64,000 a year.

    Now, that is a guy that has employed two others part time. He is making 64,000 a year. But if he gets his taxes raised and loopholes cut, he will have to pay taxes 310,000 a year. At just 30 percent, that is 60,000 for everything over 100,000 dollars made. So, if he doesn't have to pay taxes on ANYTHING he makes for the first 100,000-- he will only clear 4000 a year.

    Do any of you want to live on 4000 a year?

    That is why tax breaks should extend all the way up to 500,000. That is why loopholes should also remain for self-employed people. They are the ones that provide the jobs, and also drive down overall cost with lots of competition in the marketplace.
    Preacher, are they proposing to tax gross revenue? That would be completely assinine.

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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    Again, why can't I get this point across?

    The Dems want a mixed approach. That is their "unstoppable force". The GOP refuses to budge, making them the "unmovable object".

    However, the Dems HAVE agreed to move on other issues, things that they previously would not move on. This leaves the GOP as the side that is unwilling to compromise AT ALL. That is potentially an election killer in 2012. You don't need to understand or even believe that, because it will be that way no matter what.

    This is about compromise. So, if the Dems demand a tax rate increase, who should pay that tax increase? I'm not going to get into some pedagogical discussion about progressive versus regressive taxes, but there is a damned good reason why virtually every tax system in the World (including ours) is based on the former.

    Anyway, the GOP is going to have to budge on taxes. At some point, they just will. And who should get taxed? The bottom 10%? The middle 50%? Well, how about the very top 10%? I say no...how about the top .01%, the same people who have been enjoying steady tax DECREASES for at least 10 years.

    This is, for the 100th time, about compromise. People making 10 mil a year, or 50 mil a year, are not going to miss 4%, especially since probably ALL of these people just saw their capital gains tax drop from 35% to 15%. The US won't actually make much revenue off this, nor will these people miss the money much, but it's like the key log in a huge logjam. All we need to do is spring that one log free and the other 10,000 will start floating downstream again.
    Fire Goodell

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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by suitanim View Post
    This is, for the 100th time, about compromise. People making 10 mil a year, or 50 mil a year, are not going to miss 4%, especially since probably ALL of these people just saw their capital gains tax drop from 35% to 15%. The US won't actually make much revenue off this, nor will these people miss the money much, but it's like the key log in a huge logjam. All we need to do is spring that one log free and the other 10,000 will start floating downstream again.
    That is awfully magnanimous of you to dictate who should pay and how much.

    How about compromise on the other side? How about finally adhering to an imposed debt ceiling? The crisis is not today, the crisis is in the thinking of the government at large that no matter what, we will just raise the debt ceiling and we can go on our merry way. How many times has it increased? It is an absolute sham. If an imposed restriction can be removed or raised by the people that imposed it, it is a complete sham. I say remove the ceiling completely.

    The current system, generally adhered to in the world, of deficit spending is wrong. Just because everyone does it, doesn't make it right. How long would you be able to go on if you continued to spend more than you take in? It is wrong.

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