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Thread: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

  1. #61
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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    Nevermind...they fucked this all up, too...

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...LmRI_blog.html

    (From James Capretta, former associate director of the OMB)

    “It’s a terrible, terrible plan. It will hand the president a huge strategic victory and deliver nothing that the GOP should be seeking in this fight. It’s far, far worse than anything we have seen thus far, and certainly much worse than the McConnell plan.”

    So what is in it? Capretta revealed:

    It’s essentially a call for a budget “reconciliation” bill, with no specifics yet available. Senate committees with jurisdiction over taxes and entitlements would be tasked with achieving targeted amounts of savings or tax increases. For instance, the Finance Committee would be charged with reporting out a tax-reform plan that increases taxes by about $2.3 trillion over a decade. That committee would also be charged with finding savings in Medicare and Medicaid, but there’s absolutely no indication of how the savings will be achieved.

    Republicans would be foolish to think this process will produce anything worthwhile. The Democrats control the Senate, and all of the committees. They will write the tax and entitlement changes, and look for Republican votes. It’s a recipe for another round of useless mishmash posing as “entitlement reform.” Remember, Finance Committee chairman Max Baucus is an architect of Obamacare. If his committee were to produce any real health-care savings at all, it would be with the same kind of price-setting and central planning that was written into Obamacare. There’s zero chance this process will lead to any meaningful movement away from the Obamacare model.
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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    I've also heard that this includes a 7% tax DECREASE for people making over $300,000 a year. A DECREASE! For the only people who CAN afford a tax increase.

    These lunatics are all out of their minds. We are so screwed....
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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    You know, I read through this thread and it seems everyone has bought into this idea that we have a 'Tax' problem. WE (the US) do not have a problem with generating revenue... WE. HAVE. A. SPENDING. PROBLEM!!!

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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by whodat1 View Post
    You know, I read through this thread and it seems everyone has bought into this idea that we have a 'Tax' problem. WE (the US) do not have a problem with generating revenue... WE. HAVE. A. SPENDING. PROBLEM!!!
    SHH!! careful what you say, you might be labeled a "extreme cultish right wing tea bagger" or a domestic terrorist.
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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    Nice.

    We have historically low taxes. We have historically HIGH debt. Why can't we use our brains and combine BOTH means of debt reduction?

    But, Hell ya, you're right. I'm a fiscal conservative, 25 year registered Republican, and, from everything I've seen, especially as of late (and this thread is VERY indicative), the TEA party has grown dangerous and radical.
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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by whodat1 View Post
    You know, I read through this thread and it seems everyone has bought into this idea that we have a 'Tax' problem. WE (the US) do not have a problem with generating revenue... WE. HAVE. A. SPENDING. PROBLEM!!!
    Read again. I am never for raising taxes. WE, (I am Canadian) have been taxed enough. Until governments can prove they can be accountable and spend responsibly, there should be NO tax increases. For too many years, the solution was always to raise taxes, which just lead to more and more out of control spending.

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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    Well, that's great. HOWEVER, we have done nothing but LOWER taxes in the US.

    Look what good it's done.

    Slash spending. Compromise and let tax rebates, which have ALREADY EXPIRED, lapse on the few who can actually afford it.

    Ain't rocket science.
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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by suitanim View Post
    Well, that's great. HOWEVER, we have done nothing but LOWER taxes in the US.

    Look what good it's done.

    Slash spending. Compromise and let tax rebates, which have ALREADY EXPIRED, lapse on the few who can actually afford it.

    Ain't rocket science.
    Wouldn't be a problem if we had honorable people involved. However, track record is that once the heat is off and the deal is struck to raise the debt ceiling, it will be a return to status quo and we will revisit this issue in 3 or 4 years, REGARDLESS of who gets elected.

    Sorry, I am extremely cynical when it comes to government and it's spending habits. They always come up with a myriad of nonsensical reasons of why spending cuts should be delayed just one more year. Libs or Cons, Dems or GOPs. I REALLY hope I am proven wrong.

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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    Again, the debt ceiling and the budget are separate issues. THIS debt ceiling is tied to LAST YEARS budget. I'm not sure how that isn't clear.

    Anyway, here are two excellent pieces on the subject. First up is the always right-on George Will on the good work the TEA Party has done.

    http://www.ohio.com/editorial/george...nable-1.226157

    WASHINGTON: The tea party, the most welcome political development since the Goldwater insurgency in 1964, lacks only the patience necessary when America lacks the consensus required to propel fundamental change through our constitutional system of checks and balances. If Washington’s trajectory could be turned as quickly as tea partyers wish — while conservatives control only one-half of one of the two political branches — their movement would not be as necessary as it is. Fortunately, not much patience is required.

    The Goldwater impulse took 16 years to reach fruition in the election of Ronald Reagan. The tea party can succeed in 16 months by helping elect a president who will not veto necessary reforms. To achieve that, however, tea partyers must not help the incumbent achieve his objectives in the debt-ceiling dispute.

    One of those is to strike a splashy bargain involving big — but hypothetical and nonbinding — numbers. This would enable President Obama to run away from his record and run as a debt-reducing centrist. Another Obama objective is tax increases that shatter Republican unity and dampen the tea party’s election-turning intensity. Because he probably can achieve neither, he might want market chaos in coming days so Republicans henceforth can be cast as complicit in the wretched recovery that is his administration’s ugly signature.

    Mitch McConnell’s proposal would require Obama to make three requests for additional debt-ceiling increases. Each time he would be required to recommend commensurate spending reductions. Concerning them, Congress would, of course, retain its constitutional power to do what it wishes.
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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    Next up is EJ Dionne (and I RARELY use his stuff...), equally as right discussing how the TEA Party may actually end up destroying the very thing they have pledged to fix.

    http://www.ohio.com/editorial/e-j-di...party-1.226156

    WASHINGTON: Media reports are touting the Senate’s Gang of Six and its new budget outline. But the news that explains why the nation is caught in this debt-ceiling fiasco is the gang warfare inside the Republican Party. We are witnessing the disintegration of tea party Republicanism.

    The tea party’s followers have endangered the nation’s credit rating and the GOP by pushing both House Speaker John Boehner and Majority Leader Eric Cantor away from their own best instincts.

    Think about the underlying dynamic here. The evidence suggests that both Boehner and Cantor understand the peril of the game their Republican colleagues are playing. They know we are closer than we think to having the credit rating of the United States downgraded. This may happen before Aug. 2, the date everyone is using as the deadline for action. We have less time than we think.

    Unfortunately, neither of the two House leaders seems in a position to tell the obstreperous right that it is flatly and dangerously wrong when it claims that default is of little consequence. Rarely has a congressional leadership seemed so powerless.

    Compare the impasse Boehner and Cantor are in with the aggressive maneuvering of Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell. He knows how damaging default would be and is working with Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid to concoct a way out.
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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    Obaaaaama is costing us 4 Billion a day.


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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    Deficit spending, in my opinion, is wrong. The average "joe" can't spend more than he makes, so why should the government or any other entity be allowed to do so? If memory serves, they were talking about printing more money to cover their miserable carcasses. BUT, if the "joe" did it, it would counterfeiting.

    As for corporate welfare, end it. Those large corporations take all those incentives and pay their fat cat CEO's big bonuses. The little guys working there don't see all the money.

    Just another example of "the rich get richer and the poor get poorer."

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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    I wonder what was done to get this country out of the Great Depression, the 2nd greatest recession (statistically- behind the one were currently in)... maybe we could learn something...?

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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelerEmpire View Post
    I wonder what was done to get this country out of the Great Depression, the 2nd greatest recession (statistically- behind the one were currently in)... maybe we could learn something...?
    Basically it was called WWII and no it wasn't FDR's "New Deal" aka Raw Deal.


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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    Originally Posted by SteelerEmpire
    I wonder what was done to get this country out of the Great Depression, the 2nd greatest recession (statistically- behind the one were currently in)... maybe we could learn something...?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mach1 View Post
    Basically it was called WWII and no it wasn't FDR's "New Deal" aka Raw Deal.
    So basically a "super massive" style bail out ???

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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelerEmpire View Post
    So basically a "super massive" style bail out ???
    If creating jobs to spur the economy is considered a "bail out".
    Somebody had to build the planes, tanks, ships, ammo, ect.....

    Creating jobs is the key, something obaaama hasn't the first clue about.


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  17. #77
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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    Brooks gives Hope a beat-down:

    http://www.ohio.com/editorial/david-...rgain-1.226781

    Second, the White House negotiating process was inadequate. Neither the president nor the House speaker ever wrote down and released their negotiating positions. Everything was mysterious, shifting and slippery. One day the president was agreeing to an $800 billion revenue increase; the next day he was asking for $400 billion more. Spending cuts that seemed to be part of the package suddenly seemed hollow. Negotiating partners disappeared. It was phenomenally hard to figure out exactly who was offering what. Democrats in Congress were kept in the dark and were understandably suspicious. It was all a recipe for misunderstandings, hurt feelings and collapse. Third, the president lost his cool. Obama never should have gone in front of the cameras just minutes after the talks faltered Friday evening. His appearance was suffused with that “I’m the only mature person in Washington” condescension that drives everybody else crazy. Obama lectured the leaders of the House and Senate in the sort of patronizing tone that a junior high principal might use with immature delinquents. He talked about unreturned phone calls and being left at the altar, personalizing the issue like a spurned prom date.
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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    I think it's now all about scoring points for the 2012 elections. The American people are just one of the pawns in this big game of the powerful. I think before it's all over with, any positive or negative gains made will have a net balance of 0. I know our founding fathers put their best foot forward, but I think the system itself will have to be changed before this madness will end (but, more than likely, there will be madness in a new system as well). I think we as a people should just be realistic about it and be content with just minor gains here and there.

  19. #79
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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    I agree, although I'm not sure voting FOR small business 95% of the time versus voting AGAINST small business 95% of the time represents a "small" gain or submission...
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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by X-Terminator View Post
    All of this is going to be moot, because the debt ceiling will ultimately be raised. But dammit, I had better see some REAL commitment to curbing spending, so we don't have to keep revisiting this every year. I'm not holding my breath on that.
    Looks like I was right. And predictably, no one is happy about it. The Dems are pissed because of the spending cuts with no tax increases, and the Republicans are pissed because they didn't cut enough and aren't cutting fast enough. I can't believe the Republicans managed to get this deal done without even loopholes being closed. So get ready for more corporations like GE getting away with zero tax liability. It's hard to imagine anyone thinking that's a good thing.








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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    I'm not so sure. They pretty much locked in cuts, one way or the other. The bi-partisan commission either gets them through, or more cuts kick-in automatically.

    Also, let's be clear here. Obama ain't gettin' reelected. He trashed an already suffering economy, he doubled down on spending, and the unemployment numbers alone are enough to do him in. The GOP will control at LEAST the WH and the house...that shift in power back to the right should give us enough leverage to clean up the deficit.
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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by suitanim View Post
    I'm not so sure. They pretty much locked in cuts, one way or the other. The bi-partisan commission either gets them through, or more cuts kick-in automatically.

    Also, let's be clear here. Obama ain't gettin' reelected. He trashed an already suffering economy, he doubled down on spending, and the unemployment numbers alone are enough to do him in. The GOP will control at LEAST the WH and the house...that shift in power back to the right should give us enough leverage to clean up the deficit.
    Republicans Clean up the deficit? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA That's almost like saying, If you build a nice fire we should have just enough fire to build a snowman.

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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by The WH View Post
    Republicans Clean up the deficit? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA That's almost like saying, If you build a nice fire we should have just enough fire to build a snowman.
    Let's be clear again. If not for the GOP, the deficit now would most likely be 20 trillion. Obama himself, unchecked, would spend like a drunken sailor with a stolen credit card. As far as I know, there are ZERO fiscal conservatives in the democratic party.
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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by The WH View Post
    Republicans Clean up the deficit? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA That's almost like saying, If you build a nice fire we should have just enough fire to build a snowman.
    Considering that this debt limit deal and Clinton's balanced budget happened with the GOP controlling at least the House, I wouldn't exactly be laughing. Because neither of them happen without them sticking to their guns and forcing the Democrats' hands.

    And as for fiscal conservatives in the Democratic Party, there most certainly are. They just get drowned out by the hard leftists in the party.








  25. #85

    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by The WH View Post
    Republicans Clean up the deficit? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA That's almost like saying, If you build a nice fire we should have just enough fire to build a snowman.
    Quote Originally Posted by suitanim View Post
    Let's be clear again. If not for the GOP, the deficit now would most likely be 20 trillion. Obama himself, unchecked, would spend like a drunken sailor with a stolen credit card. As far as I know, there are ZERO fiscal conservatives in the democratic party.
    Quote Originally Posted by X-Terminator View Post
    Considering that this debt limit deal and Clinton's balanced budget happened with the GOP controlling at least the House, I wouldn't exactly be laughing. Because neither of them happen without them sticking to their guns and forcing the Democrats' hands.

    And as for fiscal conservatives in the Democratic Party, there most certainly are. They just get drowned out by the hard leftists in the party.
    I think a more appropriate response is,

    When republicans have majority in the house, they are a heck of a lot more fiscally conservative than democrats.

    As far as presidents? They all have spoken a great game. But when it came down to reality, it was just more hide the salami with the american people facing the other way.


  26. #86

    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    As for the actual deal, I was ok with it because there is a distinct incentive to get the rest of the cuts done.

    1. Dems stand strong on social programs, medicare/SS being the biggest of them all. If cuts aren't made, then medicare gets the cuts slashed out of it. Period. That will be a good impetus for the dems to get their act together and not simply play politics, but actually try to work out a deal.

    2. Republicans stand on a strong military and spending for the military. If cuts aren't made, the military gets the cuts slashed of it as well. Period. That's a great impetus for the Republicans to be serious and not play politics either, but work with the Dems.

    In other words, both sides have to take off their diapers, put down their baby rattles that they keep shaking at each other, grow up and deal with reality.


  27. #87
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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    Here is the next step:

    Social Security.

    50 cents of every dollar (I'm leaving the debt interest out of this) we spend is basically money we give to senior citizens. The trust fund isn't fully funded, so what we are engaging in right now is basically transferring wealth from younger working people to older retired people. I'm not necessarily criticizing that practice, since they DID pay into it, but it's an antiquated system. First off, when you turn 65, you don't automatically become poor. Many, many, many seniors who are enjoying full benefits simply don't need them. They should be paying a higher percentage, or a full percentage of their Medicare premium. Secondly, the system needs to account for the fact that when it was set-up, people lived (I think) like an average of about 8 more years after retirement. Now it's closer to 20. The retirement age needs revised a bit.

    That's still not enough, though, since the number of people aged 65 and older is set to double over the next period of time, before the baby boomers fade and population shrinks again (I'm not accounting for exploding populations of illegals, because that will have to be addressed as well). We are going to have to depend on some kind of private investments to supplement the public plan, which simply is not sustainable.

    But this will be a HUGE fight. Dems will not give up any social programs, even ones that are antiquated, unsustainable, and will bankrupt the country. And they will mobilize the AARP vote, even when reality dictates that those people will be long dead when these changes are implemented. And THAT is why we desperately need a pendulum swing far back to the right, at least until we can update and fix all these entitlements. The Dems simply will NOT touch these programs, even though they will literally strangle the country to death fiscally.
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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

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