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Thread: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

  1. #31
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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    Wow....hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.....

    First, it's completely myopic to state that raising the debt ceiling is somehow a partisan effort. As if ONLY Democrats overspend. The debt ceiling was an artificial barrier that was already crossed some time ago. Raising it simply means that we will actually HONOR OUR OBLIGATIONS.

    Not doing so is reneging on debt, plain and simple. Adhering to the debt ceiling means that we lied to our creditors, so toss that idea out the window.

    The debt ceiling does serve a purpose in that it is a trigger for debates like these. Removing it would be like removing traffic lights at a busy intersection. Bad idea. Now, a balanced budget amendment AND removal of the debt ceiling is an idea that has traction.

    Secondly, as I stated, I'm not going to get bogged down in ridiculous pedantic arguments over progressive taxes. Taxes will be raised. Sorry, but they will...and they will be raised, properly, according to those who have the best means to pay them. Really, as I've stated before, all this will really amount to is an early sunsetting on Bush's tax cuts which were going to expire LAST year, anyway. How can the GOP sacrifice something that they could have lost last year, and our due to lose next year, regardless?

    Anyway, what's your beef with a 4% tax on the top .01%? You make 10 mil a year and think you can't afford it? I'd LOVE to hear a compelling argument from a group of people who's tax rate has done nothing but dropped tell me why they can't pay a LITTLE more...

    What's YOUR solution, since you're so quick to criticism mine? And PLEASE don't feed me Michelle Bachmann, "We CAN afford it" garbage, because that is 3rd grade gutter logic. We owe the money. We will pay it. How?
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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    Ok, let's try this another way...let's dumb it down some.

    Say we're running a household. We have rent, and bills, food and gas, etc, etc...it totals $20,000 a year. We are OBLIGATED to pay that $20,000 a year. We promise to pay that 20k.

    But we only have 15k when all is said and done. Michelle Bachmann's idea is just to not pay some of the bills. Not sure which, no real plan, just not pay them. The alternative for sane people, is to use your strong credit rating and borrow money to pay the bills. And, simultaneously, make a plan to budget a lot better the following year. Not paying is not an option, because, on top of everything else, your good credit will get bad, and the cost of all the same things will automatically go up.

    Overspending is ONLY wrong if you plan do A) Do it forever and B) Not pay back your debt. We are in a position to make sure that A does not happen, and a big part of that will come about by making sure we DON'T do B.
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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    Suit, let's dumb this down even further. Why is there a debt ceiling?

    Comparing the debt ceiling to red lights is really absurd. When has the rule for red lights ever changed? Red means stop. Debt ceiling does not seem to mean, "you have reached your spending limit". So please, what does debt ceiling mean?

    I have never insinuated this is a partisan issue, this is a government entitlement issue. To me, government does not equate to only the Dems.

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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by suitanim View Post
    Ok, let's try this another way...let's dumb it down some.

    Say we're running a household. We have rent, and bills, food and gas, etc, etc...it totals $20,000 a year. We are OBLIGATED to pay that $20,000 a year. We promise to pay that 20k.

    But we only have 15k when all is said and done. Michelle Bachmann's idea is just to not pay some of the bills. Not sure which, no real plan, just not pay them. The alternative for sane people, is to use your strong credit rating and borrow money to pay the bills. And, simultaneously, make a plan to budget a lot better the following year. Not paying is not an option, because, on top of everything else, your good credit will get bad, and the cost of all the same things will automatically go up.

    Overspending is ONLY wrong if you plan do A) Do it forever and B) Not pay back your debt. We are in a position to make sure that A does not happen, and a big part of that will come about by making sure we DON'T do B.
    I'm all in on a balanced budget. How many have we had in the last 40 years? The track record is continual, annual deficits that continue to add to the debt, which tends to say the government has chosen A) from your scenario. (Again, government does not equal only Dems)

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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    My beef with ALL tax increases at this point is the FACT that no government has been able to control themselves and cut spending.

    The problem is not lack of revenue, the problem is the growth of government spending. Until governments can prove that they can manage fiscal policy responsibly, there should be no more increases in revenue. It is akin to continually giving an alcoholic more and more drinks, hoping that some day they will learn to handle it. They can't.

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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    I'm going to jump around here a little. First off, a red light analogy is only absurd if you don't understand what the debt ceiling is for...and I don't think you do. Originally, it was created to free congress from having to sit there and individually oversee every issuance of debt...so it granted additional powers to the Treasury. It was actually an efficiency in government. It, in effect, freed Treasury to pay short-term debt with long term bonds. It has morphed into a power check where the congress actually reviews and approves the spending it has already promised. Now, here's the red light part. Because unchecked and un-reviewed spending will only create more of which you're railing against, which is out-of-control spending with little or no oversight. Simply put, annual deficits contribute to the overall national debt, which the Treasury Department finances by issuing bonds. The ceiling acts as a check on that overall debt: When Treasury needs to issue debt above the ceiling, Congress raises the ceiling.

    This isn't about ability to pay debt, it's about willingness to pay debt. What people can't seem to grasp here is that NO MATTER WHAT, the government is going to pay it's debt back. The ceiling will be raised. The danger is, the GOP is playing chicken with the budget, which threatens the AAA credit rating of our government. Using the debt ceiling to talk budget is what it's there for. That's the red light: "Hey.........woah! Obama raised discretionary spending a record 24% two years ago (That's a fact that can be verified) and we've not scaled that back. We're heading for a crisis! We better fix the budget!". Removing that review would mean a GREEN LIGHT to just keep spending without properly vetting that spending.

    What it is NOT for is to be used like a cudgel by a fringe party of one wing to hold the entire US economy hostage, and threaten to NOT pay debts in a timely manner (when, again, the debt WILL be paid one way or the other) which can only result in paying higher interest on existing debt, along with several other catastrophic and devastating consequences, all of which are avoidable.

    Anita Krishnakumar, law professor at St. Johns explains better than I ever could exactly why the debt ceiling is necessary: "First, the statute is the last remnant of congressional control or accountability over the national debt," rather than just annual deficits. "Second, the debt limit statute encourages legislators to consider the interest of the general public and future generations, rather than those of special interests, and thus acts as an important institutional check on party and interest group politics."

    Finally, just to make sure you check yourself when calling my assertions "absurd", the debt ceiling has been around since 1917 in the US. The first modern red/green stoplight was introduced in Salt Lake City in 1914. They both accomplish similar goals, and they are both almost identical in age.
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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    Now, as to the question of revenue v spending, I have said for years that we need to check our spending. The economy will not truly recover, and we have no chance of running a surplus again, until unemployment drops and GDP increases. In the meantime, there are steps we can take to help stave off further indebtedness. OF COURSE we need to curve our spending. The best way to start is tackle entitlements, like Medicare, Medicaid, and SS. We also need to look at scaling back all Obama's spending increases. His 24% increase and his ridiculous spendulous bill did NOTHING to add jobs, so how can cutting that same spending cost jobs? It should be relatively easy to peel back 6-7 trillion simply by Iraq winding down, cutting back those needless expenses, and finally doing something about the entitlements.

    And what will it cost the GOP to attain the necessary compromise? Rolling back a tax rebate, one which already EXPIRED last year, and for only the people who can most afford it.

    And you, and Michelle Bachmann, and a few others response to that? No way....compromise can ONLY come from the other side.

    Let me quote the President here:

    “Would you rather reduce deficits and interest rates by raising revenue from those who are not now paying their fair share? Or would you rather accept larger budget deficits, higher interest rates and higher unemployment?”

    Sound familiar? This wasn't Obama, this was RONALD REAGAN in 1982!

    He traded 99 billion in tax increases for $280 billion in spending cuts.

    Of course, compared to wingnuts like Bachmann, Reagan was a piker, and way to liberal to elect today.
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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by suitanim View Post
    Finally, just to make sure you check yourself when calling my assertions "absurd", the debt ceiling has been around since 1917 in the US. The first modern red/green stoplight was introduced in Salt Lake City in 1914. They both accomplish similar goals, and they are both almost identical in age.
    And red still means stop here. Ceiling, not so much. Ceiling means, time to negotiate some stupid agreements that are not going to mean anything anyway, and now we can continue spending until we approach the next ceiling. The lack of enforcement in regards to the ceiling regulation makes it absolutely absurd to compare it to a red light, where you can not negotiate with the police officer, that while you were aware the light was red, it was only an indication that I should begin negotiations with you for a movement of the red light. It really should not be here, but 1/2 block further down the road. I have every intention to stop, but I just need a little more room to make it happen. Absurd? You decide.

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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    You are really beyond a point of compromise. We both know the ceiling is going to be raised and everyone is going to go on with spending like drunken sailors. (No disrespect to sailors). What is needed is COMMITMENT to the next level the debt ceiling is raised to. This must be the last debt ceiling raise and work must begin today to curb spending and get the damn government's house in order. The GOP has to make it clear that the next debt ceiling must not be increased in anyway. However, we both know that is not going to happen.

    The other problem with this whole mess, is that the entitlement payments are used by the incumbents to make sure they get reelected. The current state of government is "Let's get elected". Not "What is best for the country".

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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by suitanim View Post
    Anita Krishnakumar, law professor at St. Johns explains better than I ever could exactly why the debt ceiling is necessary: "First, the statute is the last remnant of congressional control or accountability over the national debt," rather than just annual deficits. "Second, the debt limit statute encourages legislators to consider the interest of the general public and future generations, rather than those of special interests, and thus acts as an important institutional check on party and interest group politics."
    Wish that was how it was truly handled. Unfortunately, continually raising the ceiling makes it lack credibility. And since the enacting, setting and raising all comes from the same place, kind of makes it useless, IMO.

    Scenario, they raise the debt ceiling by 5 trillion, 3 years down the road we are at this point again. Now what?
    Don't care who is power. In fact, won't matter who is in power, may take 4 years instead of 3, so let's leave who is in power out of the equation.

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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    Raising the debt ceiling equates to giving obaaaama a brand new shinny credit card to max out.


    Give a lib a fish--he eats for a day

    Teach a lib to fish--he is back the next day asking for more free fish.

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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    ....and the GOP are the parents that co-signed for the shiny new Credit card. I'm going to sit over here in meatball land and watch how all this bullshit plays out. I hope for all of your sakes...that those assclowns on capitol hill fix this.

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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach1 View Post
    Raising the debt ceiling equates to giving obaaaama a brand new shinny credit card to max out.
    I'm sorry, but, no, it doesn't. Raising the debt ceiling simply enables the US to pay debts that it already promised to pay. If we don't raise the ceiling, we still owe the debt, we'll just end up paying even higher interest rates on it.

    Where are you guys getting this false information from?
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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    It enables them to KEEP spending.

    Speaking of debts lets keep giving China aid from the money we borrowed from them.


    Give a lib a fish--he eats for a day

    Teach a lib to fish--he is back the next day asking for more free fish.

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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    OK, again, I'm a little disturbed at this misinformation. Is Rush or Beck or someone feeding this out? Because it is just plain wrong.

    First off, this is much more like maxing credit card out (which the US has already done long before today), and actually making plans to make the payments on it. By NOT raising the debt ceiling, the US would basically be saying "well, of course we still owe the debt, and of course we still have to pay it, but we decided to play a bunch of idiotic games so now we will owe the debt and have to pay a much higher interest rate". This has NOTHING to do with future spending or the budget, as this money was already spent. Now we need to borrow to pay for it. It's really not that complicated, yet very few people seem to get it.

    Next up is the misconception that China owns most of our debt. Not even close. The two largest investors in the US are it's own individuals and institutions who invest in T-bills. Then comes the Social Security trust fund. Those two entities alone make up more than half the investors. As an interesting aside, many of the US Institutions that hold T-bills do so in pension and trust funds which are REQUIRED to invest in only AAA rated instruments. When and if the US defaults, and our AAA credit rating is stripped (and that will be the first of many horrible consequences of these idiots playing games), these same US Institutions will be required to de-vest in T-bills and find more stable investment instruments.

    Then comes all the other foreign countries that have small holdings. THEN come China, which holds between 9-10%. Then Japan, the UK, the US Civil Service and Military retirement funds (also probably going to have to de-vest), then oil exporters and finally Brazil.

    So, again, this has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE BUDGET. The GOP is simply using this as a cudgel to force the Dems to make cuts in the NEXT budget without actually conceding anything themselves. I am a registered Republican, mostly because I am a fiscal conservative, and only moderate to slightly left in social politics. This is WHY I'm a Republican, and I'm telling you our side is fucking this thing up. Obama is up there saying he wants to make 4 trillion in cuts but can't because the GOP will concede nothing. HE is actually making OUR argument, and effectively using it against us, namely, it seems, because nobody actually knows what the Hell is really going on.
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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    This madness is starting to take it's toll. Even though it's VERY clear probably 90% of people have no idea what is really going on, it's still starting to really rankle, even amongst the GOP base:

    http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/g...173312513.html

    Are Republicans facing a serious political risk in rejecting President Obama's call for a sweeping plan to deal with the nation's debt crisis?

    With the deadline swiftly approaching to come up with an agreement that would raise the $14.3 trillion ceiling, a new CBS News poll finds Republicans losing the battle for public opinion in the debate, with 71 percent of Americans casting their disapproval of the GOP's handling of the crisis.

    Perhaps most notable: Fifty-one percent of Republicans in the survey say they disapprove of how their party leaders in Washington are handling the debt negotiations.
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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by suitanim View Post

    First off, this is much more like maxing credit card out (which the US has already done long before today), and actually making plans to make the payments on it. By NOT raising the debt ceiling, the US would basically be saying "well, of course we still owe the debt, and of course we still have to pay it, but we decided to play a bunch of idiotic games so now we will owe the debt and have to pay a much higher interest rate". This has NOTHING to do with future spending or the budget, as this money was already spent. Now we need to borrow to pay for it. It's really not that complicated, yet very few people seem to get it.
    This is only one part of the effect of raising the debt ceiling. And for this reason, it will be raised again. However, the part you don't want to seem to address is that this also gives the government carte blanche to continue to spend. With the restriction removed (by raising it again), there will be less pressure today to do something about the spending habits of the government. And the cycle will continue, because the next level of the ceiling WILL be breached again, and this process will be back in the news. This IS the opportune time to get commitments that spending will be brought under control. But, again, who are the police in this situation. Government setting the rules, and government changing the rules. Accountability is non existent, hence the continued raising of the debt ceiling, the continued abuse of taxpayer's dollars, the continued intrusion of government into your lives, and the continued erosion of one of the greatest countries that this world has ever been witness to.

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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    What the Debt Ceiling Really Means

    The clock is slowly ticking toward Aug. 2, the date on which the U.S. faces "fiscal Armageddon" — according to the Obama administration — unless Congress agrees to raise the debt ceiling. But would we?

    The Obama administration, as well as much of the media and many economists, tend to equate failure to raise the debt limit with default. That's not precisely true.

    The Treasury Department estimates that the federal government will collect a bit more than $203 billion in taxes during August — roughly $36 billion just in the first three days. But, during August, the federal government is expected to spend $307 billion. That is why we have a problem.

    If the government is not able to borrow more money after Aug. 2, spending will have to be reduced to the amount of revenue that the government has. That would require roughly a 44 percent cut in federal spending.

    The rest of the article

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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    What is the debt ceiling?

    A lot of people appear confused at to what the debt ceiling is and why it has to be raised.

    First, what is the debt ceiling? CNNMoney explains:

    It’s a cap set by Congress on the amount of debt the federal government can legally borrow. The cap applies to debt owed to the public (i.e., anyone who buys U.S. bonds) plus debt owed to federal government trust funds such as those for Social Security and Medicare.

    This cap was created by a 1917 law and has been raised a rather large number of times over the past almost-century. It is important to understand that the debt ceiling itself is an arbitrary number.

    The rest of this article

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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    I give up. Seriously. You're like Tony...wrong, but unwilling to budge...

    I have read and listed to at least FIFTY economists and experts who are coming up with pretty much the same assessment as me. But we're all wrong, I guess, and you and Michelle Bachmann are right.

    God help us all....God help us all...
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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by suitanim View Post
    I give up. Seriously. You're like Tony...wrong, but unwilling to budge...

    I have read and listed to at least FIFTY economists and experts who are coming up with pretty much the same assessment as me. But we're all wrong, I guess, and you and Michelle Bachmann are right.

    God help us all....God help us all...
    I present 2 articles with both sides being supported. You only find articles that support your argument. I'm the intolerant one? You truly live up to your signature.

    What happened to the rest of your post? I guess I caught it before you edited.

  22. #52

    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by carnoj View Post
    Preacher, are they proposing to tax gross revenue? That would be completely assinine.
    When you close tax loopholes, you drive up the taxable revenue closer and closer to gross revenue. Or, new taxes like the 3% withholding tax for all contracts with any govt. entity that has a budget of 100 million or more--that tax is even on medicare. So doctors, pharmacies, hospitals, etc. are also subject to it.

    Then, there is the general issue of how much a person really makes.

    For instance. A roofer from Minnesota wants to fly to New York to meet with a roofing supplier, then a second one in Tampa, and a third in Texas. He questions the company about their material, watches how it's constructed, etc. He takes his job supervisor who is the one actually on the roof most of the time. The tickets costs $1600. The hotel costs $450 for five nights. The rental car costs $150. Food, gas, etc., another $400. The total trip, which is quite reasonable and while not on the cheap, is not by any means extravagant, costs $2600.

    NONE of that is tax deductible because it is "Too Big." That's right, the tax courts have ruled that it is too big of a deduction and unreasonable for a corner deli, or a roofer to fly to see their supplier. Thus, $2600 used for business will be taxed just as if the worker decided to load up his family and take them to Disney Land.

    Furthermore, he bought $20,000 worth of material, tools, etc. etc. this year. Now, the copiers, computers, etc. all end up as Capital Expenditures and are NOT able to be claimed. Rather, the depreciation is deducted over the life of whatever it is--this is known as CAPEX.

    The Operating expense, or OPEX, is the nails, roofing material, etc. it can be claimed. BUT, iIt is also inventory that equals company worth and thus, is taxed.

    So, let's say bob the builder, after paying his bills and employees, ends up with 100,000 profit and 15,000 sitting in the bank for the company for advertising, licensing, etc. etc. next year. Not bad right? Hold on. In order to find his taxable income, First, We have to add back in the $2600 spent on the trip. The $10,000 spent on upgrading the company, and the $15,000 sitting in the bank. That's right. That is ALL taxable. That leaves him with a taxable income of $128,000. The first thing that comes off the top, is 15.3% of the 128,000 for SECA, (paid once a quarter in estimated payments, with a penalty if it's underpaid). So from that $100,000; $19584.00 is deducted, equaling (rounding off) $10800 taxable income, but leaving the person only $80,000 of actual income.

    It is now time for income tax. All the business expenses have already been declared, so there is no help there. Of course, there is the normal stuff, so let's give the person $15,000 worth of tax breaks. That reduces the taxable income to $93,000. Thus, the tax burden is $15,500 for a married couple or a total actual income of 64,500.

    Now, this guy has a choice. Continue to make say, 300,000 of which, after all expenses, he ends up with $64,500, plus the headache of running the company; navigating the tax laws, business laws, tort laws, etc.; plus all the extras that go into business. . .

    Or chuck it all, fire his 3 or 4 employees, quite the business, no longer have to worry about taxes, laws, etc., and go get a job with a construction company as a supervisor making $80,000 to $100,000 a year, working 40-50 hours a week and able to go home and forget about work until the next day in Tallahassee Florida?

    THAT is why taxes on those making 80-500,000 or more should be lowered. Because in raising the taxes, jobs are being killed, and the govt. is getting closer and closer to taxing gross amount, not actual amount.

    After all, $100,000 in profit, but only ending up with $64,500 is quite a slap in the face.

    BTW, I didn't even BEGIN to get into the Alternative MInimum tax, which drastically drives up the tax rate and cuts what can be claimed. So that amount may be significantly less, if the guy falls into the AMT.


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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    Thanks Preacher. And Wow. Taxes = disincentive, strongly proven in your summary.

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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    Nothing in either of those articles refuted anything I said....nor are there "two sides". Not raising the ceiling is either really, really bad, or really, really, really, really bad.

    By the way, the credit downgrades have begun...

    http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/...GFnZQ--;_ylv=3

    True, both Moody's and Standard and Poor's warned last week that they're considering doing so, thanks to the possibility that a failure to raise the debt limit could trigger a massive government default by early August. But at this point, neither has acted.

    Still, neither of those two agencies has the best track record of late. Both played a key role in the events that led to the financial crisis, by continuing to slap AAA ratings on subprime-mortgage-backed securities, even long after it became clear to many that they were junk.

    A less prominent agency, Egan-Jones Ratings, largely avoided buying into the subprime madness. That might be because it's not paid by the Wall Street banks whose securities it's rating; instead it collects fees from investors who need accurate assessments, so it has more of an incentive to get things right.

    And wouldn't you know it? Egan-Jones announced yesterday that it had downgraded the U.S. debt rating, from AAA to AA+.
    Fire Goodell

  26. #56
    Klaatu barada nikto Array title="suitanim has a brilliant future"> suitanim's Avatar

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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    Sad: We actually have a BIPARTISAN group of Senators work for 6 months to come up with a legitimate, workable COMPROMISE, and the fringes of both parties want to shoot it down.

    (One issue here, though...sending these provisions into committee is a mistake, as it simply kicks the can down the road again. However, I see why that approach was taken. It's in the interests of time.)

    Anyway, this is a real chance for the rank-and-file Republicans to isolate and discredit the radical fringe that the TEA Party is becoming by throwing their weight behind this compromise. The moderates from both sides of the aisle should have the votes to carry this thing through both houses IF they are not held hostage by their far-right and far-left voting blocs.

    http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/201...akthrough.html

    Could the bi-partisan “Gang of Six” plan embraced by the President today be a real breakthrough on the debt ceiling issue?

    Don’t count on it.

    First, the good news. As Sunlen Miller reports, the bi-partisan “Gang” presented their ambitious $3.7 trillion deficit reduction plan to a bi-partisan group of some 50 Senators. The reception was positive. Senators from both parties praised the plan. Senator Joe Manchin (D-WV) even declared, “We went from a Gang of Six to a Mob of 50.” The President praised it. The stock market loved it.

    Now, some reality. The plan has already drawn fire from the right (Senator Jim DeMint says he has “serious concerns” and Senator Jeff Sessions says the plan hikes taxes “by at least $1 trillion”), and the left (“devastating cuts to Social Security and Medicare and Medicaid” said Bernie Sanders).
    Fire Goodell

  27. #57
    Geek God Array title="X-Terminator has a reputation beyond repute"> X-Terminator's Avatar

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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    It seems like a good compromise. Just gotta hope now that the Dems actually follow through on the spending cuts, and the Republicans swallow their pride about closing the tax loopholes for big corporations. There is no rhyme or reason why a multi-billion company like GE can get away with no tax liability. It's small business that needs the tax relief, because they are the job creators.








  28. #58
    Klaatu barada nikto Array title="suitanim has a brilliant future"> suitanim's Avatar

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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    That's the main problem with letting them sort this out later in committee. It's almost a certainty that things will break back down along party lines, and NOTHING gets done.

    BUT, here's the catch. If the GOP can manage to be seen as compromising on this, they can continue to win seats and the WH. Even Dems have to know that the only real, lasting budget balancing ideas are going to come from the GOP. I don't think its' fair that there are to be no revenue increases, even in the form of tax loopholes closing, but maybe they'll come to their senses about that...
    Fire Goodell

  29. #59
    Quest For Seven Array title="Mach1 has a reputation beyond repute"> Mach1's Avatar

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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    McConnell Proposes Congress Punt Debt-Ceiling Power To Obama

    In a proposal that appears to be mostly about finding a way to raise the debt ceiling while protecting his fellow congressional Republicans from having to vote to do so, Sen. Mitch McConnell has suggested a way in which Congress could effectively give President Obama the power to raise the debt ceiling.
    http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpolit...-ceiling-power

    And who in their right mind thinks this is a good idea?


    Give a lib a fish--he eats for a day

    Teach a lib to fish--he is back the next day asking for more free fish.

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  30. #60
    Klaatu barada nikto Array title="suitanim has a brilliant future"> suitanim's Avatar

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    Re: "The GOP Is A Cult " (The Washington Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach1 View Post
    http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpolit...-ceiling-power

    And who in their right mind thinks this is a good idea?
    It's about the second worst case scenario...and it will blow up in the GOP's face if they try it.
    Fire Goodell

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