Former Bengals running back shot to death by police

[Godfather]

http://www.cincyjungle.com/2011/7/11...hot-and-killed

This is sad. (It would be funny if he lived but this sucks.)

[Devilsdancefloor]

wow

[venom]

Should have listened and not attacked the cop ( s )

[stillers4me]

Should have listened and not attacked the cop ( s )

It still seems like excessive use of force. They do have other means of subduing people with putting a bullet in them.

[Nadroj 20]

It still seems like excessive use of force. They do have other means of subduing people with putting a bullet in them.

Exactly. Shooting a person, in most situations, should be a last resort type of thing.

[smokin3000gt]

Isn't that why cops have tasers/billy clubs/'pepper' spray/respond in numbers/have backup for non lethal situations? A bag being swung around (which can happen accidentally in any kind of tussle) is hardly a shoot to kill situation. Tragic loss of life for such a petty situation.

[SteelerSal]

Isn't that why cops have tasers/billy clubs/'pepper' spray/respond in numbers/have backup for non lethal situations? A bag being swung around (which can happen accidentally in any kind of tussle) is hardly a shoot to kill situation. Tragic loss of life for such a petty situation.

This...sad situation.

[HometownGal]

Isn't that why cops have tasers/billy clubs/'pepper' spray/respond in numbers/have backup for non lethal situations? A bag being swung around (which can happen accidentally in any kind of tussle) is hardly a shoot to kill situation. Tragic loss of life for such a petty situation.

I agree 100%. I hope his family goes after those cops.

[venom]

Im surprised I havent heard anyone say why couldnt the cop shoot him in the arm or leg

[venom]

Its a shame he died , but what a great place we live in . Disobey a lawful order from a police officer , sue them when they do something to you - even in death .

[The Patriot]

Wow, a cop got hit with bag of groceries?! Sounds like a clean kill to me!

I understand police officers have to defend themselves, but if you can't deal with a struggling unarmed suspect without pulling out your gun and shooting him, don't f**king become a cop.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Wow, a cop got hit with bag of groceries?! Sounds like a clean kill to me!

I understand police officers have to defend themselves, but if you can't deal with a struggling unarmed suspect without pulling out your gun and shooting him, don't f**king become a cop.

yeah for real. I'm thinking the cops pulled the race card on the guy (if he isnt white)

[smokin3000gt]

yeah for real. I'm thinking the cops pulled the race card on the guy (if he isnt white)

I think it was the scared to do his job card more then race.

[Craic]

Wow, a cop got hit with bag of groceries?! Sounds like a clean kill to me!

I understand police officers have to defend themselves, but if you can't deal with a struggling unarmed suspect without pulling out your gun and shooting him, don't f**king become a cop.

Unarmed? Unarmed means no weapons. He chose to use the bag as a weapon. Thus, he was no longer unarmed. Wait, wait, I know, a bag of groceries, get serious! Actually, I am very serious. Let's take a look at just how easily that bag of groceries could have killed the cop. Physics tells the story.

1. Swing speed. Somewhat hard to measure, but let's see what we can do. Golf club swing speed, about 90 miles an hour on impact (face of club). Baseball bat swing speed, about 80 MPH for a highschool player. I would say that a highschool ball player would be equal to a 50 year old ex-Pro NFL player.

2. The difference between the bag and the bat. The bag had two 24 ounce cans of beer, for a total of 48 ounces. Cutting down the swing speed by half, gives you 40 MPH. Let's take another 50% off that for good measure, since it is a bag. That gives a swing speed of 20 MPH, which is easily attainable when someone is angry or scared.

3. Now, plugging all those numbers in:

Beer weighs approx. 1.09 ounces for every liquid ounce, plus the can which is about 2/3rds of an ounce. Thus, two 24 ounce cans of beer will weigh approx. 3.35 pounds. Now, if that was all that is in the bag, then we can calculate the impact (Don't forget, the more that's in the bag, the bigger the potential impact, depending on what hits first).

So, 3.35 pounds swinging at 20 MPH hits the cop in the back of the head. Let's say the can dents in a quarter inch (Quite a bit for a can, but we're being conservative), and the cop's head moves 2 inches from the impact. That's a total stopping distance of just over 2 inches.

Thus, the impact is 263.68 pounds of force over an inch to inch and a half piece of the skull.

That has tremendous potential danger, including TBI or worse. Don't forget, I lowered the numbers tremendously. If the guy was really ticked, in decent shape, and took a good swing, he could get that bag up to 40 MPH, which equals over 1000 pounds of impact force. That coming VERY close to skull breaking force.

So calling this guy unarmed is very incorrect. He used an everyday object as a weapon and doing so, should have been considered an armed suspect attacking a police officer.

What do YOU think should happen to an armed suspect that attacks a police officer? If the policeman was incapacitated at all, and the guy got a second swing at him, that's a potential total of 500 pounds to a TON of force on the policeman's head over two hits. Is that enough to warrant deadly force?

[venom]

Unarmed? Unarmed means no weapons. He chose to use the bag as a weapon. Thus, he was no longer unarmed. Wait, wait, I know, a bag of groceries, get serious! Actually, I am very serious. Let's take a look at just how easily that bag of groceries could have killed the cop. Physics tells the story.

1. Swing speed. Somewhat hard to measure, but let's see what we can do. Golf club swing speed, about 90 miles an hour on impact (face of club). Baseball bat swing speed, about 80 MPH for a highschool player. I would say that a highschool ball player would be equal to a 50 year old ex-Pro NFL player.

2. The difference between the bag and the bat. The bag had two 24 ounce cans of beer, for a total of 48 ounces. Cutting down the swing speed by half, gives you 40 MPH. Let's take another 50% off that for good measure, since it is a bag. That gives a swing speed of 20 MPH, which is easily attainable when someone is angry or scared.

3. Now, plugging all those numbers in:

Beer weighs approx. 1.09 ounces for every liquid ounce, plus the can which is about 2/3rds of an ounce. Thus, two 24 ounce cans of beer will weigh approx. 3.35 pounds. Now, if that was all that is in the bag, then we can calculate the impact (Don't forget, the more that's in the bag, the bigger the potential impact, depending on what hits first).

So, 3.35 pounds swinging at 20 MPH hits the cop in the back of the head. Let's say the can dents in a quarter inch (Quite a bit for a can, but we're being conservative), and the cop's head moves 2 inches from the impact. That's a total stopping distance of just over 2 inches.

Thus, the impact is 263.68 pounds of force over an inch to inch and a half piece of the skull.

That has tremendous potential danger, including TBI or worse. Don't forget, I lowered the numbers tremendously. If the guy was really ticked, in decent shape, and took a good swing, he could get that bag up to 40 MPH, which equals over 1000 pounds of impact force. That coming VERY close to skull breaking force.

So calling this guy unarmed is very incorrect. He used an everyday object as a weapon and doing so, should have been considered an armed suspect attacking a police officer.

What do YOU think should happen to an armed suspect that attacks a police officer? If the policeman was incapacitated at all, and the guy got a second swing at him, that's a potential total of 500 pounds to a TON of force on the policeman's head over two hits. Is that enough to warrant deadly force?

Wow , that sounded like an episode of Sports Science , lol . People dont know how it feels like to walk in a cop's shoes . Rather be tried by 12 then be carried by 6 .

[The Patriot]

Unarmed? Unarmed means no weapons. He chose to use the bag as a weapon. Thus, he was no longer unarmed. Wait, wait, I know, a bag of groceries, get serious! Actually, I am very serious. Let's take a look at just how easily that bag of groceries could have killed the cop. Physics tells the story.

1. Swing speed. Somewhat hard to measure, but let's see what we can do. Golf club swing speed, about 90 miles an hour on impact (face of club). Baseball bat swing speed, about 80 MPH for a highschool player. I would say that a highschool ball player would be equal to a 50 year old ex-Pro NFL player.

2. The difference between the bag and the bat. The bag had two 24 ounce cans of beer, for a total of 48 ounces. Cutting down the swing speed by half, gives you 40 MPH. Let's take another 50% off that for good measure, since it is a bag. That gives a swing speed of 20 MPH, which is easily attainable when someone is angry or scared.

3. Now, plugging all those numbers in:

Beer weighs approx. 1.09 ounces for every liquid ounce, plus the can which is about 2/3rds of an ounce. Thus, two 24 ounce cans of beer will weigh approx. 3.35 pounds. Now, if that was all that is in the bag, then we can calculate the impact (Don't forget, the more that's in the bag, the bigger the potential impact, depending on what hits first).

So, 3.35 pounds swinging at 20 MPH hits the cop in the back of the head. Let's say the can dents in a quarter inch (Quite a bit for a can, but we're being conservative), and the cop's head moves 2 inches from the impact. That's a total stopping distance of just over 2 inches.

Thus, the impact is 263.68 pounds of force over an inch to inch and a half piece of the skull.

That has tremendous potential danger, including TBI or worse. Don't forget, I lowered the numbers tremendously. If the guy was really ticked, in decent shape, and took a good swing, he could get that bag up to 40 MPH, which equals over 1000 pounds of impact force. That coming VERY close to skull breaking force.

So calling this guy unarmed is very incorrect. He used an everyday object as a weapon and doing so, should have been considered an armed suspect attacking a police officer.

What do YOU think should happen to an armed suspect that attacks a police officer? If the policeman was incapacitated at all, and the guy got a second swing at him, that's a potential total of 500 pounds to a TON of force on the policeman's head over two hits. Is that enough to warrant deadly force?

We're not on the same page. You're assuming Turner charged at the cops whipping that thing around like a ball and chain. Maybe he did (It would certainly play to the cop's favor), but that doesn't sound like the more realistic situation to me. No, this sounded more like a guy resisting being taken to the ground by police. I've seen this situation happen with drunks and idiots like a dozen times. And if he was jerking around with a bag of beer cans, it could have easily swung back and struck an officer pulling him to the ground in the back of the head.

However, I could be wrong. Hopefully this will get cleared up with the testimony of witnesses and the other cops. But your story gives a huge amount of benefit of the doubt to the officer in question.

[Craic]

We're not on the same page. You're assuming Turner charged at the cops whipping that thing around like a ball and chain. Maybe he did (It would certainly play to the cop's favor), but that doesn't sound like the more realistic situation to me. No, this sounded more like a guy resisting being taken to the ground by police. I've seen this situation happen with drunks and idiots like a dozen times. And if he was jerking around with a bag of beer cans, it could have easily swung back and struck an officer pulling him to the ground in the back of the head.

However, I could be wrong. Hopefully this will get cleared up with the testimony of witnesses and the other cops. But your story gives a huge amount of benefit of the doubt to the officer in question.

Actually, I'm not assuming he charged him, but rather that he simply turned and swung the bag, that is why I looked at baseball swings and golf swings, since they are both done from a stand still.

As for what it sounds like to you, you could be absolutely correct. But the fact that he was cooperative, then not, makes me think that it was more than just a bag swinging up from a take down. Do I know? Nope. Not at all. But I was actually commenting on your comment of "just a bag of groceries" showing that no, it really isn't "just a bag of groceries." It IS a potential weapon.

But again, your scenario could end up being absolutely right.

Preach, I think you are missing the point.
Shooting to kill is a last resort with an officer. A taser would have stopped the "grocery bag" attack the same as his gun but without killing anyone. If there were multiple cops on scene then the chances of this officer being 'beat to death' with a beer can is slim to none.

Beat to death? No, as I said before, it has the potential to kill in a single swing to the back of the head.

But I think you missed the impetus of my post, where I was correcting the idea that it was "Just a bag of groceries" and an unarmed man (see my comments above).

Everyone is assuming the bag was used as a weapon just because the cop who shot him said he was attacked with it. Do you think he is going to say "I over reacted and killed a man when I was accidentally hit with a bag." ?

Again, see my comments above. I do not doubt that is a possibility. Especially when the cop that shot him was young.

I can't believe how many people are writing this guy off like a bag of garbage being put curbside without being there, knowing the FACTS (of the situation, not what he says are facts in his report), or hearing the other side of the story (which obviously isn't possible).

I'm not writing this guy off. Once again, just correcting a thought that he was unarmed when in fact, he very well may have turned an object into a weapon.

Try to have a little remorse for person, son, father that was more likely killed for resisting arrest then brutally beating a cop.

Quite the assumption I don't. But I think your assumption was made do to misunderstanding the context of my post. As I said when Osama was killed, it is ALWAYS a shame when a human life is taken, no matter what. (and no, this is not a comparison to Osama bin laden, but rather, a light to heavy midrash).
However, I also believe that he put himself in that situation. If you resist arrest, you create a situation where police officers get riled up, and will have to make snap judgments about threats.
That's a bad situation to create.

As far as what really ahappen, you're right, we don't know.

I'll save my judgement until I see the store's surveillance video.

[stillers4me]

Really sad case, but like every other case, day one in the news, there's always more to the story. But you gotta love Bengals humor......

Damn, gunned down by the police? Well, at least he went out like a Bengal.
:ninja:
Too soon?

What other Bengal has been gunned down ? If he had been beating his wife while driving under the influence with Odell Thurman while hitting a parked car and failed to pay his child support then yes he went out like a Bengal...

http://forum.go-bengals.com/index.php?showtopic=60381

They said it first.

[steeldawg]

Im sorry but if you attack a cop by bashing him over the head and you get shot its your own damn fault!

[smokin3000gt]

Im sorry but if you attack a cop by bashing him over the head and you get shot its your own damn fault!

I think there is probably more to the story then what the officer who is on the hook for killing an unarmed man over a beer can is going to confess.

[ALLD]

The former RB was up to no good, however he did not deserve to be shot. See what happens when you do the wrong thing.

[steelerdude15]

Excessive use of force, that's all I have to say.

[86WARD]

RIP

[BigNastyDefense]

An officer's training is that if you have to shoot, you shoot to kill.

If the guy knocks the cop loopy, then the guy has access to the officer's firearm.

Was it excessive force? Probably. But the guy who was shot isn't in the right either. You NEVER EVER assault a police officer. He put himself in that position. I really don't feel that bad for him or his family. The lesson in this is to obey an officer when he gives you an order.

[The Patriot]

You NEVER EVER assault a police officer. He put himself in that position.

If he punched the cop then that'd be clearly assault, but a cop getting hit by a bag of groceries by a guy carrying a bag of groceries sounds a lot more like resisting arrest than assault.

I really don't feel that bad for him or his family. The lesson in this is to obey an officer when he gives you an order.

Really?! A kid sees his dad get shot to death by police, and a guy loses his life because he felt he was being wrongly detained?

[smokin3000gt]

An officer's training is that if you have to shoot, you shoot to kill.

If the guy knocks the cop loopy, then the guy has access to the officer's firearm.

Was it excessive force? Probably. But the guy who was shot isn't in the right either. You NEVER EVER assault a police officer. He put himself in that position. I really don't feel that bad for him or his family. The lesson in this is to obey an officer when he gives you an order.

Nope.. he's DEAD. I guess that'll teach him, huh?

[steelpride12]

Hitting a police officer in the head with ANYTHING is assault plain and simple. A police officer has a tedious and very demanding job not to mention on your toes 24/7. When he was hit from behind the only option is to turn and defend yourself with a gun.

Smart move by the officer and glad to know they were not injured.

[Godfather]

Shoulda tazed him, bro.

[steelpride12]

In that situation, no. Defend yourself with any means necessary. These men are trained for any situation.

[CantStop85]

In that situation, no. Defend yourself with any means necessary. These men are trained for any situation.

Really? Defend yourself with any means necessary against a bag of beer cans? Christ, the guy was 56-years-old, how dangerous could he have been with a bag of groceries against MULTIPLE police officers?

It doesn't sound like Turner was being a model citizen, but from the information given (which, if anything, would be skewed in the cop's favor), there was no reason to take the man's life.

This sort of lackadaisical use of lethal force is not only unjustified, it sets a terrible precedent for abuse. You ever wonder why minorities and younger people are paranoid of cops? This is exactly why.