Ike Taylor Has Better Stats Than Nnamdi Asomugha

[SteelerEmpire]

Harris: Among CBs, it's easy to like Ike

By John Harris, PITTSBURGH TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Tuesday, June 14, 2011


John Harris is a Pittsburgh Tribune-Review sports columnist and can be reached at 412-481-5432 or via e-mail.

He's considered the best. Well, at least until common sense takes over.

Unrestricted free-agent cornerback Nnamdi Asomugha is a pretty good football player. A former first-round draft pick, he's considered a lockdown corner because of his ability to prevent opposing receivers from catching the ball.

But you know what? Asomugha may not be as good as advertised.

LINK: http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pitt...edium=referral

[SteelerFanInStl]

Let's not talk about how good Ike is until we get him signed.

[suitanim]

Wow...this will never fly around here...

[fansince'76]

The only thing that has kept Taylor from being a perennial All-Pro is his hands. Kinda common knowledge, no?

[HometownGal]

The only thing that has kept Taylor from being a perennial All-Pro is his hands. Kinda common knowledge, no?

BINGO. If we can sign Ike, I'd still take him over Aso. He knows the system and is very well liked and respected by his teammates, coaches and the fans.

[salamander]

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Another case where statistics can be misleading. After all, most NFL players, coaches, general managers would value Ike Taylor over Asumogua anyday..........right??

I mean, teams throw away from Ike because he locks down half of the field....correct?

And the Steelers playing off man coverage as opposed to the Raiders playing more man to man coverage makes statistical comparisons equal.

[GBMelBlount]

Another case where statistics can be misleading. After all, most NFL players, coaches, general managers would value Ike Taylor over Asumogua anyday..........right??

I mean, teams throw away from Ike because he locks down half of the field....correct?

And the Steelers playing off man coverage as opposed to the Raiders playing more man to man coverage makes statistical comparisons equal.

Point taken. There are a lot of variables that are different in Pgh and Oakland that likely effect the stats while Harris is presenting this in somewhat of "a stat is a stat is a stat" manner.

Regardless, Ike is an elite cornerback in my book.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Point taken. There are a lot of variables that are different in Pgh and Oakland that likely effect the stats while Harris is presenting this in somewhat of "a stat is a stat is a stat" manner.

Regardless, Ike is an elite cornerback in my book.

I agree, if we say there is 64 starting CB's in the NFL....I think Ike is somewhere in the top 10-15. Nnamdi is probably top 3 IMO.

[SteelerEmpire]

Found more stuff on the subject...



Higher Education: The ‘greatness’ of Ike Taylor, and other things that will make your head explode
By Doug Farrar

Our new "Higher Education" series isn't just about discussing pro football's advanced metrics in context with the Yahoo Sports audience; it's also occasionally about an article we see that makes us do the full "AROO?!?!?!?", Scooby Doo style.
So it was when we read this column in the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, published on Tueday. A fellow by the name of John Harris went to great lengths to convince us all that Pittsburgh Steelers cornerback Ike Taylor(notes) is actually better than Oakland Raiders cornerback Nnamdi Asomugha(notes).

LINK: http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shu...urn=nfl-wp2640

[fansince'76]

At least last year anyway, the Steelers had the # 1 run defense. And the word was out that you can pass on the Steelers all day. So I would wonder what the run-pass ratio for the two teams were last year... as well as since Ike and Nnamdi have been in the league ? Hmmm...

Exactly. He whines about Harris' "cherry-picked statistics" and then proceeds to present cherry-picked statistics of his own. Why air it out 40-50+ times against a team when you can just run the ball down their throats all day long? Bottom line is that Asomugha is pretty much picked by default for the annual popularity contest known as the Pro Bowl, so he's somehow perceived as being "miles better." While I still give Aso an edge due to Taylor's stone hands, the gap between them is really not that big.

[SteelerEmpire]

Exactly. He whines about Harris' "cherry-picked statistics" and then proceeds to present cherry-picked statistics of his own. Why air it out 40-50+ times against a team when you can just run the ball down their throats all day long? Bottom line is that Asomugha is pretty much picked by default for the annual popularity contest known as the Pro Bowl, so he's somehow perceived as being "miles better." While I still give Aso an edge due to Taylor's stone hands, the gap between them is really not that big.

Well put. If it weren't for Ike's hands there wouldn't be such a difference. However, Ike (who's speed rivals Mike Wallace, DeSean Jackson, etc...) is faster than Nnamdi, so it's a matter of basic physics that Ike can cover the more speed receivers and chase down speedsters better than Nnamdi.

[HometownGal]

Well put. If it weren't for Ike's hands there wouldn't be such a difference. However, Ike (who's speed rivals Mike Wallace, DeSean Jackson, etc...) is faster than Nnamdi, so it's a matter of basic physics that Ike can cover the more speed receivers and chase down speedsters better than Nnamdi.

While it would be great to have both Ike and Aso, hell has a better chance of freezing over. I'd still take Ike.

[GBMelBlount]

Well put. If it weren't for Ike's hands there wouldn't be such a difference. However, Ike (who's speed rivals Mike Wallace, DeSean Jackson, etc...) is faster than Nnamdi, so it's a matter of basic physics that Ike can cover the more speed receivers and chase down speedsters better than Nnamdi.

There is no doubt that Ike may be faster than Mnamdi in a sprint.

However sprint speed does not necessarily translate to game speed.

There are factors like reaction time, changing direction, balance, agility, instincts and athleticism that are not necessarily measurable by flat out sprint times but do affect game speed.

[steelerdude15]

Well put. If it weren't for Ike's hands there wouldn't be such a difference. However, Ike (who's speed rivals Mike Wallace, DeSean Jackson, etc...) is faster than Nnamdi, so it's a matter of basic physics that Ike can cover the more speed receivers and chase down speedsters better than Nnamdi.

I've heard that Ike is the fastest corner in the game, but I don't have a source.

[suitanim]

This is just more apology for CB's who only have half a game. Deion was the first (and worst). If you want to play CB for the Steelers, you'll have to be prepared to blitz, and to come up and play at least run zone (and be prepared to make a tackle) because of all the complex player movements and odd assignments. The argument that secondary players making tackles meant that you had a porous front seven died about 15 years ago. Hell, many defenses actually funnel plays back to their secondary.

Fact is, the Steelers defense defines the player, and not the other way around. You MUST be willing to put your head down and smack pads to play CB for the Steelers. Some guys don't or won't, and they aren't going to cut it.

[SteelerEmpire]

This is just more apology for CB's who only have half a game. Deion was the first (and worst). If you want to play CB for the Steelers, you'll have to be prepared to blitz, and to come up and play at least run zone (and be prepared to make a tackle) because of all the complex player movements and odd assignments. The argument that secondary players making tackles meant that you had a porous front seven died about 15 years ago. Hell, many defenses actually funnel plays back to their secondary.

Fact is, the Steelers defense defines the player, and not the other way around. You MUST be willing to put your head down and smack pads to play CB for the Steelers. Some guys don't or won't, and they aren't going to cut it.

Here's a good angle left by a poster on there (the article in frame 10):

Man that "targeted" stat really throws some light on the subject, but I would ask this, "How many games did the opposing team (against the Raiders) spend most the second half running the ball to protect the lead?" and therefor threw the ball a lot less. Add that to the fact that teams rarely stick to the run against the Steelers and it is not too surprising that Ike had more balls thrown his way. Even so, that doesn't change the fact that despite such a vast disparity between "times targeted," the two men have complied mostly similar numbers.

Regardless, with the Steelers issues at DB, the team should re-sign Ike Taylor and, if they feel inclined to go completely out of character, Pittsburgh should also go after Asomugha! I know, never happen.

At least last year anyway, the Steelers had the # 1 run defense. And the word was out that you can pass on the Steelers all day. So I would wonder what the run-pass ratio for the two teams were last year... as well as since Ike and Nnamdi have been in the league ? Hmmm...

[SteelerFanInStl]

This is just more apology for CB's who only have half a game. Deion was the first (and worst).

I agree. It kills me when people talk about Deion being the best CB EVER.

[steeldawg]

I agree. It kills me when people talk about Deion being the best CB EVER.

Dion was the best CB ever, period. Purest shutdown corner to ever play, could take away half a field. As far as Ike is concerned this guy would be tops in the league if hhe could catch. The only reason he is left out of the discussion is his int totals, so unless you follow the steelers its hard to see all the little things he does for our defense.

[SteelerFanInStl]

Dion was the best CB ever, period. Purest shutdown corner to ever play, could take away half a field. As far as Ike is concerned this guy would be tops in the league if hhe could catch. The only reason he is left out of the discussion is his int totals, so unless you follow the steelers its hard to see all the little things he does for our defense.

B.S. Deion took ONE player out of the game. He didn't do crap against the run and he was a poor tackler. I watched him play his whole career. Woodson was a MUCH better all-around CB than Deion.

[Godfather]

B.S. Deion took ONE player out of the game. He didn't do crap against the run and he was a poor tackler. I watched him play his whole career. Woodson was a MUCH better all-around CB than Deion.

I assume you mean Rod, but Charles is also better than Deion.

[silver & black]

I told you guys a while back that Asomugha is overrated. Who needs to throw the ball on the Raiders when the run D is so lousy? Hey... I'm as big a Raiders fan as there is, but I hope Nnamdi goes somewhere else to play. If he goes to a team in a division with stout run D's, he's going to get exposed as "better than average", but hardly elite.

[Craic]

I have to admit, this part of the article is completely right:

The moral is: Whatever we think we see on the field, and whatever we think the stats tell us, there's always more to the story. People who couch numbers to their own advantage really do not help the process.

Yet, they fall into the same trap. Using targeting, as others have said here, only shows that the ball has been thrown, not [I]why[I] the ball the has been thrown Ike's way. More to the point, when they have similar numbers, but Ike has been targeted three times more, it shows that Ike is able to be that much more consistent over a much larger body of work.

Personally, I would love for the Steelers to pick up Asom. I think he's only been asked to pass protect, so I am not too worried about his run support. If he came here, I could definitely see LeBeau adapting (not changing, but adapting) his scheme to allow Asom to play a lot of man coverage. Stick him on an island and then just worry about the other 10 players. When we play team like the Patriots where LeBeau's scheme is completely exposed, switching to a man coverage with Asom on the other side would really lock down our defense.

[The Duke]

I only got to watch deion late in his career, but he always struck me as a weak guy with pretty good instincts. Have never seen anyone so unwilling to tackle, and suck at it when he actually did

Definitely not what I would call the best ever

[SteelerEmpire]

The best CB ever ? Dick LeBeau...

[steel striker]

I go with Ike because, we know what we have in Ike. Nothing against NA he is a very good player but, Ike has been pretty solid. I know what the blasted pack did to our defense in the sb. I hope we can play better against the pass this year. Now as far as Deon goes he could not tackle my two legged dog. Like mentioned above Rod Woodson was a better player than Deon hands down.

[Psycho Ward 86]

I dont know why so many people are hammering Nnamdhi's tackling just because ONE guy said he isnt impressed. Ive seen Nnamdhi make phenomenal tackles, ive also seen Ike make complete whiffs. Id rather use my own eyes to judge. And Nnamdhi has as much game speed as anybody in the game at any position.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

I dont know why so many people are hammering Nnamdhi's tackling just because ONE guy said he isnt impressed. Ive seen Nnamdhi make phenomenal tackles, ive also seen Ike make complete whiffs. Id rather use my own eyes to judge. And Nnamdhi has as much game speed as anybody in the game at any position.

Very true.

If the Steelers could pay one of them $8 million a year contract avg who would you choose? Taylor ur Asomuga?

[Count Steeler]

Very true.

If the Steelers could pay one of them $8 million a year contract avg who would you choose? Taylor ur Asomuga?

8 Million might be saying that it is better to turn to the young guns and let them play. Asomuga has a year on Taylor, so you may get 2-3 years before the wheels go flat. If Taylor would settle for less, I'd probably stick with him.

[HometownGal]

8 Million might be saying that it is better to turn to the young guns and let them play. Asomuga has a year on Taylor, so you may get 2-3 years before the wheels go flat. If Taylor would settle for less, I'd probably stick with him.

Me too carnoj. Good post.

In addition, Ike is very familiar with the LeBeau system. I'm hoping a deal with Ike and the FO gets done very soon.