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Thread: Scottie Pippen: LeBron could be best

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    Senior Member Array title="Nadroj 20 is just really nice"> Nadroj 20's Avatar

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    Scottie Pippen: LeBron could be best

    Scottie Pippen had a front-row seat to watch Miami's LeBron James help oust the Chicago Bulls from the playoffs, and the Hall of Famer believes James might supplant Pippen's former running mate Michael Jordan as the greatest player ever.


    "Michael Jordan is probably the greatest scorer to play the game," Pippen said Friday on "Mike & Mike In The Morning" on ESPN Radio. "But I may go as far as to say LeBron James may be the greatest player to ever play the game because he is so potent offensively that not only can he score at will but he keeps everybody involved.
    http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nb...ory?id=6599168


    Easy Scottie. You played with the best player ever and you are saying this?

    Not a very loyal teammate are you?

    I like Pippen and of course this place knows my feelings about LeBron but I can't believe a teammate of michael jordan is saying that somebody even has a chance to be better.
    "Clear Eyes, Full Hearts, Can't Lose"
    ~Rest In Peace HometownGal~

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    Senior Member Array title="El-Gonzo Jackson has a reputation beyond repute"> El-Gonzo Jackson's Avatar

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    Re: Scottie Pippen: LeBron could be best

    Jordan pushed his teammates to work as hard as he did. Jordan made players around him better and lead them to championships.

    James has not made those around him better, he had to find better guys to play with. He could be the greatest talent to ever play, but doesnt match the drive of even Kobe, never mind Jordan.

    Pippen probably never becomes the player that he was if he was drafted by the 76ers. I think he sounds sour that he had to ride sidecar to Jordan most of his career. When Jordan retired, Pippen was no longer Robin to Jordan's Batman.....he became Alfred the Butler.

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    Re: Scottie Pippen: LeBron could be best

    Scottie must still be made at Jordan or something. Hes got 6 rings because of him Lebron 0. Plus when Jordan retired for those 2 yrs Scottie became batman for those 2 yrs 0 rings when Jordan came back 3 more rings.

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    Senior Member Array title="Nadroj 20 is just really nice"> Nadroj 20's Avatar

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    Re: Scottie Pippen: LeBron could be best

    Quote Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
    Jordan pushed his teammates to work as hard as he did. Jordan made players around him better and lead them to championships.

    James has not made those around him better, he had to find better guys to play with. He could be the greatest talent to ever play, but doesnt match the drive of even Kobe, never mind Jordan.

    Pippen probably never becomes the player that he was if he was drafted by the 76ers. I think he sounds sour that he had to ride sidecar to Jordan most of his career. When Jordan retired, Pippen was no longer Robin to Jordan's Batman.....he became Alfred the Butler.
    I agree with your points except for James not making the players around him better. He most certianly did in cleveland thats why they were good. Once he left well look what happened.

    Mo Williams was an all star for a season for one reason only....LBJ made him an all star.

    Also you haven't noticed LBJ's passing skills? Setting up his teammates for easy looks is a way to make them better looking players.

    When your a two time MVP and the biggest reason a team can win 60+ games a year (cavs) I don't see how you dont make your teammates somewhat better while your on the floor?
    "Clear Eyes, Full Hearts, Can't Lose"
    ~Rest In Peace HometownGal~

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    Re: Scottie Pippen: LeBron could be best

    Eh, what does Pippen know about the NBA? Or great NBA players?

    Anyway, people seem to forget Jordan had zero rings until year 7. LBJ is only in his 8th, and it's almost a certainty that he'll get his first this season. Now that he has SOMETHING around him, he's already completely debunked the unearned nickname his haters and detractors have tried to dismiss him with. In fact, this is from an article I just read:

    Among the highlights: The 10 consecutive points against Boston to wrap up Game 5 over the now-dethroned East champs in the second round. The nine points in an 11-2 run that decided Game 2 of the East finals against Chicago. The combined 71 feet of three made jump shots in a 97-second span late in Game 5 against the Bulls, including the shot with 30 seconds left that put the Heat ahead for good after it had trailed by 12 late in the fourth quarter.

    Including playoffs, his 27.8-point average is third-best in NBA history behind only Jordan and Wilt Chamberlain. After eight seasons, he ranks 11th on the league's list of active scorers — everyone else above him on that list has played at least five more seasons.


    Finally, concerning the garbage about his lack of drive (from Heat coach Erik Spoelstra):

    ''But he really is a legitimate student of the game. I always hear him talking about games that happened the night before. He's watching all the time. That really does add to his IQ. He's a high-motor, hyper guy.''
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    Re: Scottie Pippen: LeBron could be best

    Quote Originally Posted by Nadroj 20 View Post
    I agree with your points except for James not making the players around him better. He most certianly did in cleveland thats why they were good. Once he left well look what happened.

    Mo Williams was an all star for a season for one reason only....LBJ made him an all star.

    Also you haven't noticed LBJ's passing skills? Setting up his teammates for easy looks is a way to make them better looking players.

    When your a two time MVP and the biggest reason a team can win 60+ games a year (cavs) I don't see how you dont make your teammates somewhat better while your on the floor?
    Jordan made a guy from Central Arkansas (Pippen) a hall of famer. Players like BJ Armstrong, John Paxson, Dave Corzine, Brad Sellers, Toni Kukoc, Luc Longley all important parts of those winning teams. Sure Horace Grant, Dennis Rodman, Ron Harper, Bill Cartwright were some higher profile players that brought skills and experience to Jordan's team......but its nothing like having to link up with Wade and Bosh to be successful.

    The stories of Jordan just grinding on guys and riding them in practice because they were not working as hard as him are legendary. James could be the better player by the end of his career, but he is gonna be know as the guy that had to goto Wade's Heat and bring Bosh to win anything.

    I have always said the guy is a great player, but he's not established himself as any of the greats that homers like to compare him to. Jordan, Bird, Magic, Kobe, Duncan, Olajuwon are all ahead of him IMO.

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    Re: Scottie Pippen: LeBron could be best

    Actually, you just sank your own argument all by yourself. First off, there is zero relevance to where a guy went to College. Garnett, Kobe, LBJ, et al didn't even go to college.

    Most telling is that we have a LIST of legitimate NBA players on Jordan's resume. Thank you for providing it: Scottie Pippen, Horace Grant, Dennis Rodman, Ron Harper, Bill Cartwright.

    LeBron's? Carlos Boozer...for one year...his first. The guy had NOTHING around him, ever. 20 made a great salient point: LBJ's teammates were garbage. HE made them produce. Larry Hughes? Mo Williams? Really? Garbage.

    It's deflective and dismissive and wrong to hide behind the argument that LBJ needed Wade (and especially Bosh...he's radically overrated) to win. He just needed SOMEBODY next to him who could actually play playoff winning caliber basketball, somebody to unload some of the burden.

    Finally, if that WERE true, you'd have seen LBJ boost the players stats around him to the great diminishment of his own, since, if HE'S a second fiddle, he'd clearly take a back seat to the guys around him. Of course, since the argument is a fallacy, this didn't happen.,
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    Re: Scottie Pippen: LeBron could be best

    One thing I do want to add about James: The way he left Cleveland was despicable. He had at LEAST two better ways of doing things. One would have been to stay and let Cleveland try one more time to find another player for him. He had friends. He could have convinced one of them to come. But I don't think that was ever an option for him.

    Even if he was bound and determined to leave, he made several mistakes about the way he did it. "The Decision" was just an abortion of bad intentions and worse results. It was awful. But by NOT talking to anyone in the organization about his intentions, and waiting until the last minute, he royally fucked Cleveland for years to come. They had NO chance to look for replacements, and there were several other ways LBJ could have eased himself out and helped the Cavs organization in the transition. Instead he stabbed them in the back. The only reason this wasn't a total fuckover was they did actually trade and the Cavs did get some things in return. I think they got a couple future 1st round picks, but if the Heat win the championship every year, or are close, how much value is there in that really?

    It was classless and low...but I'm not going to allow his mistakes to taint my view or cloud my judgment about his abilities or his role in NBA history.
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    Re: Scottie Pippen: LeBron could be best


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    Re: Scottie Pippen: LeBron could be best

    Quote Originally Posted by suitanim View Post
    Actually, you just sank your own argument all by yourself. First off, there is zero relevance to where a guy went to College. Garnett, Kobe, LBJ, et al didn't even go to college.

    Most telling is that we have a LIST of legitimate NBA players on Jordan's resume. Thank you for providing it: Scottie Pippen, Horace Grant, Dennis Rodman, Ron Harper, Bill Cartwright.

    LeBron's? Carlos Boozer...for one year...his first. The guy had NOTHING around him, ever. 20 made a great salient point: LBJ's teammates were garbage. HE made them produce. Larry Hughes? Mo Williams? Really? Garbage.

    It's deflective and dismissive and wrong to hide behind the argument that LBJ needed Wade (and especially Bosh...he's radically overrated) to win. He just needed SOMEBODY next to him who could actually play playoff winning caliber basketball, somebody to unload some of the burden.

    Finally, if that WERE true, you'd have seen LBJ boost the players stats around him to the great diminishment of his own, since, if HE'S a second fiddle, he'd clearly take a back seat to the guys around him. Of course, since the argument is a fallacy, this didn't happen.,
    Purty good rebuttal.
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    Re: Scottie Pippen: LeBron could be best

    "I'm not better than Jordan," James said.....

    "Michael's an unbelievable player," James said Saturday. "I've got a long way - long way - to be mentioned as far as one of the all-time greats. Not even just Jordan. There's a lot of great players who have played in this league. Larry Bird, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, all these guys who are floating around with multiple rings, Bill Russell, all these guys who have pioneered this game.

    "I'm gracious. Humbled by Scottie's comments, especially with him being a teammate of his and seeing Michael on a day-to-day basis. But as far as me, I'm not going to sit here and say I'm better than Jordan. I'm not better than Jordan."



    Classy and accurate response by James. He recognizes that he is not in the league of Jordan, Bird, etc. and has a long way to go before he gets in that conversation.

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    Senior Member Array title="Nadroj 20 is just really nice"> Nadroj 20's Avatar

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    Re: Scottie Pippen: LeBron could be best

    I expect nothing less from James. That kind of comment does not surprise me one bit. Good for him
    "Clear Eyes, Full Hearts, Can't Lose"
    ~Rest In Peace HometownGal~

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    Re: Scottie Pippen: LeBron could be best

    All Pippen suggested was that, one day, LBJ MAY be better than Jordan.
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    Re: Scottie Pippen: LeBron could be best

    Horace Grant, a close friend of Pippen's who won three titles with Jordan's Bulls, was shocked to hear of Pippen's comments.


    "Pip is my man, and we will always be close but I totally disagree," Grant said Friday on "The Waddle & Silvy Show" on ESPN 1000.

    "I'm kind of at a loss for words because Michael Jordan ... when you win numerous MVPs and you've taken the team to six championships -- and probably could have been eight if he didn't retire those two years -- and MVPs in the playoffs ... and he made us better.


    "Believe me, he made myself, Scottie, B.J. [Armstrong], even Bill Cartwright who I love, he made us better players. He gave us that confidence. But first we had to earn his trust. And once we earned his trust you saw championship after championship."

    http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nb...ory?id=6599168

    I am going to agree with the opinions of Horace Grant and L. James on this one. Better to trust the opinion of NBA players instead of advertising salesmen and highschool coaches.

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    Re: Scottie Pippen: LeBron could be best

    Quote Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
    Horace Grant, a close friend of Pippen's who won three titles with Jordan's Bulls, was shocked to hear of Pippen's comments.


    "Pip is my man, and we will always be close but I totally disagree," Grant said Friday on "The Waddle & Silvy Show" on ESPN 1000.

    "I'm kind of at a loss for words because Michael Jordan ... when you win numerous MVPs and you've taken the team to six championships -- and probably could have been eight if he didn't retire those two years -- and MVPs in the playoffs ... and he made us better.


    "Believe me, he made myself, Scottie, B.J. [Armstrong], even Bill Cartwright who I love, he made us better players. He gave us that confidence. But first we had to earn his trust. And once we earned his trust you saw championship after championship."

    http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nb...ory?id=6599168

    I am going to agree with the opinions of Horace Grant and L. James on this one. Better to trust the opinion of NBA players instead of advertising salesmen and highschool coaches.
    Interesting...my comments were redacted by the mods (I'm too mean I guess) but yours weren't. How being an account executive makes me dumber than a volunteer High School offensive line coach regarding NBA players escapes me. As does the fact that nothing Horace Grant said changes anything I said, since we all seem to be saying that only time will tell. And Pippen, NOT ME, said that he thinks LBJ could be the best ever. Can you take some refresher reading comprehension classes at that high school you volunteer coach at? It could come in handy for future debates...

    The only absolute I see here is your myopic and angry hatred of LeBron James...
    Fire Goodell

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    Re: Scottie Pippen: LeBron could be best

    Why don't we just leave it where Pippen started it?

    "Michael Jordan is probably the greatest scorer to play the game," Pippen said Friday on "Mike & Mike In The Morning" on ESPN Radio. "But I may go as far as to say LeBron James may be the greatest player to ever play the game because he is so potent offensively that not only can he score at will but he keeps everybody involved.:
    Fire Goodell

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    Senior Member Array title="El-Gonzo Jackson has a reputation beyond repute"> El-Gonzo Jackson's Avatar

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    Re: Scottie Pippen: LeBron could be best

    Quote Originally Posted by suitanim View Post
    The only absolute I see here is your myopic and angry hatred of LeBron James...
    Sorry, but wrong again. The only myopic and angry hatred in this thread is your hate for me.

    Your blind hate of me has again made you lose sight of my point, which was posted in post #7 and copied below.

    Quote Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
    I have always said the guy is a great player, but he's not established himself as any of the greats that homers like to compare him to. Jordan, Bird, Magic, Kobe, Duncan, Olajuwon are all ahead of him IMO.
    You see, I don't come here to start arguements with other posters...I just want to talk some sports and Steelers with fellow fans, like Nadroj20 and I were. As for making personal attacks...I generally don't start those until provoked. I actually haven't been able to volunteer coach for a few years, because I am too busy being a father to my kids and working. More important to be called Dad than Coach to me.

    So, at the end of all this I tend to agree with James and Grant that Jordan is quite farther ahead of James at this point. Also, like Grant said Jordan made guys like him, Pippen, Armstrong, Grant, Cartwright better and instilled confidence in them.

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    Re: Scottie Pippen: LeBron could be best

    I'm pretty sure I'm going to vomit. What smug, sanctimonious tripe.

    And, because you're never wrong (even when you are), you have to be childish and attempt to have the last word, even if it's a mischaracterization of what those players said, and comes at the expense of what the argument is really about, which is where these players WILL END UP.

    The saddest part is that you had to put (your) words into Grant's mouth just to try and bolster your original weak assertion. I at least QUOTED Pippen (and tried to steer this back to a debate and not personal insults)...you attributed your hypothesis to both grant and LBJ, neither of whom said anything remotely close to what your OPINION actually is.

    You sad, angry little man...I feel sorry for you.
    Fire Goodell

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