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Thread: This is unreal. Lebron and wade in the 1st and 2nd round

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    Senior Member Array title="polamalubeast has a reputation beyond repute">

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    This is unreal. Lebron and wade in the 1st and 2nd round

    Through the first 2 rounds of the playoffs:


    LeBron – 261pts
    Wade – 262pts

    Assists:
    LeBron – 49asts
    Wade – 50asts

    Steals:
    LeBron – 13
    Wade – 17

    Blocks:
    LeBron – 13
    Wade – 13

    Shot attempts:
    LeBron – 189
    Wade – 186

    Free Throws:
    LeBron – 92
    Wade – 95

    Pretty incredible that there stats are that similar through ten games!

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    Klaatu barada nikto Array title="suitanim has a brilliant future"> suitanim's Avatar

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    Re: This is unreal. Lebron and wade in the 1st and 2nd round

    He needed his Pippen...looks like he got him, and then some!
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    Senior Member Array title="El-Gonzo Jackson has a reputation beyond repute"> El-Gonzo Jackson's Avatar

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    Re: This is unreal. Lebron and wade in the 1st and 2nd round

    Quote Originally Posted by suitanim View Post
    He needed his Pippen...looks like he got him, and then some!
    He got way more than Pippen. Considering that LeChoke, Wade and Bosh are 3 of the top 5 overall draft picks in the 2003 draft, I would say he needed a mini dream team to get it done.

    As much as I dont like Kobe...he would never be a guy to go out and try to get Tim Duncan and Steve Nash together to help him win some rings. Nor would he diss an entire city on national TV for 1 hour before leaving town. Even if James wins a few rings, he wont be in the class of the greats IMO.

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    Re: This is unreal. Lebron and wade in the 1st and 2nd round

    Last edited by polamalubeast; 05-14-2011 at 03:40 PM.

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    Re: This is unreal. Lebron and wade in the 1st and 2nd round

    Quote Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
    He got way more than Pippen. Considering that LeChoke, Wade and Bosh are 3 of the top 5 overall draft picks in the 2003 draft, I would say he needed a mini dream team to get it done.

    As much as I dont like Kobe...he would never be a guy to go out and try to get Tim Duncan and Steve Nash together to help him win some rings. Nor would he diss an entire city on national TV for 1 hour before leaving town. Even if James wins a few rings, he wont be in the class of the greats IMO.
    He did get a little more then pippen in wade but bosh has not been the huge factor some thinks he is. He is an average big man at best and was not a vital part to making it to the conferance finals. James and Wade were.

    Kobe also cried around and wanted to be traded in 07-08 until he got some better players (Gasol).

    LeBron wanted a championship and knew that cleveland was absolutely the wrong place for him to be to get one so he left...big deal. Now the whole national TV thing was stupid and the only thing i can really hold against him, it made sense to leave but to go about it in that way? not at all.

    So what if wade and bosh went to cleveland instead (which was impossible because cleveland couldnt pay them but lets just say they could)...would people still be complaining about it because kobe did it? ( wanting gasol) paul pierce got it when allen and garnett came running to boston...i mean stuff simliar to the lebron thing has happened before and everyone wants to cry about lebron doing it!

    Note that im not directing this entirly to you gonzo, in fact most of this rant is just that, a rant..it just happened to be your post that got me going a bit lol..so no offense.
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    Re: This is unreal. Lebron and wade in the 1st and 2nd round

    Just to clarify, I did say "He got his Pippen, AND THEN SOME"
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    Senior Member Array title="El-Gonzo Jackson has a reputation beyond repute"> El-Gonzo Jackson's Avatar

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    Re: This is unreal. Lebron and wade in the 1st and 2nd round

    Quote Originally Posted by Nadroj 20 View Post
    So what if wade and bosh went to cleveland instead (which was impossible because cleveland couldnt pay them but lets just say they could)...would people still be complaining about it because kobe did it? ( wanting gasol) paul pierce got it when allen and garnett came running to boston...i mean stuff simliar to the lebron thing has happened before and everyone wants to cry about lebron doing it!

    Note that im not directing this entirly to you gonzo, in fact most of this rant is just that, a rant..it just happened to be your post that got me going a bit lol..so no offense.
    Nad, no problem....I dont take offense.

    I just think that these 3 guys all got drafted the same year and seems as though they all talked about uniting in the same place to try and win some rings. I think the point the old school guys like Barkley, Jordan, Magic, Bird, etc. would all make is that they never needed to go to another guys team to win, nor did they need to band together with other rivals. Sure, Barkley went to phoenix, but that was his team when they made their runs, not Kevin Johnson's.

    If LeChoke went to the Knicks and they then brought in Amare and other pieces to try and build a winner around him, that is one thing. The perception from the old schoolers like I mentioned it that Lequit had to goto D. Wade's team and ride shotgun to a guy that has proven he can win a championship.

    It would be like Jordan going to the Pistons to play with Isiah Thomas to try and win a championship, because they could not get thru i his first few seasons.

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    Re: This is unreal. Lebron and wade in the 1st and 2nd round

    Quote Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
    Sure, Barkley went to phoenix, but that was his team when they made their runs, not Kevin Johnson's.
    Back in the '90s (and when I was still into the NBA), I remember Barkley being quite the carpetbagger too. I remember his demands to be traded from Phoenix and then subsequently landing in Houston (which was very much Olajuwon's team at the time).

    The Phoenix Suns recently dealt superstar forward Charles Barkley to the Houston Rockets for four players in the biggest trade of the coming NBA season....

    ....Barkley, 33, who complained publicly about wanting to be traded to a team that could contend for an NBA title before he retired, got his wish.
    And that wasn't the only time he did it. I remember him very vociferously pissing and moaning in the media to get out of Philly as well.

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    Re: This is unreal. Lebron and wade in the 1st and 2nd round

    The people who myopically hate LeBron will hate LeBron, and nothing will ever change that. I'm supposed to hate him, too, because he abandoned my NBA team or whatever, but I don't really care that way much or the other. I'm not ever going to cheer for the Heat, though, because my loyalty is to teams, not players...
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    Senior Member Array title="Nadroj 20 is just really nice"> Nadroj 20's Avatar

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    Re: This is unreal. Lebron and wade in the 1st and 2nd round

    The only player that i have been a huge fan of is lebron, and that wont change...hes the one guy i cheer for and want to do good who doesnt play for my favorite team. Thats just how ive always been since he was a freshman in high school, (im an ohio boy who has known about lebron since i was 8 or 9 years old)..i knew he was special in high school and will defend him always. Thats where i stand on my reasons for sticking up for him.

    Also wade has proven he can win a championship but im pretty sure there was a key guy on that team that allowed him to do so...SHAQ So its not like he could do it alone.
    "Clear Eyes, Full Hearts, Can't Lose"
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    Senior Member Array title="El-Gonzo Jackson has a reputation beyond repute"> El-Gonzo Jackson's Avatar

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    Re: This is unreal. Lebron and wade in the 1st and 2nd round

    Quote Originally Posted by fansince'76 View Post
    Back in the '90s (and when I was still into the NBA), I remember Barkley being quite the carpetbagger too. I remember his demands to be traded from Phoenix and then subsequently landing in Houston (which was very much Olajuwon's team at the time).

    And that wasn't the only time he did it. I remember him very vociferously pissing and moaning in the media to get out of Philly as well.
    G, I remember the Barkley era well too. He was almost 30 and didnt get along with the 76ers coach, so they traded him to Phoenix and then he and KJ had their run at a title. Then he got traded to Houston as an aging former great with hopefully still some good years in him. He was basically Karl Malone trying to get a last shot at the title as the sun was setting on his career.

    I think LeBron could have made a case for himself as being one of the greats of the game if he would have been able to take control of games late, rather than vanishing into the shadows when the game was on the line in the playoffs. He could have stayed in Cleveland and continued to strive for a championship, but I think his best move was to get out of there. He could have gone to the Knicks or Nets and been the centerpiece of a team built to win a championship and still had it be his team, but at this point if he ever wins one, it will be Lebron and D-Wade's Heat.

    I think people always refer to the Laker, Celtic, Bulls, Pistons teams of Magic (or now Kobe), Bird, Jordan, Isiah....I just dont see anybody referring to Lebron's Heat teams if they ever win a title.

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    Senior Member Array title="El-Gonzo Jackson has a reputation beyond repute"> El-Gonzo Jackson's Avatar

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    Re: This is unreal. Lebron and wade in the 1st and 2nd round

    Quote Originally Posted by Nadroj 20 View Post
    The only player that i have been a huge fan of is lebron, and that wont change...hes the one guy i cheer for and want to do good who doesnt play for my favorite team. Thats just how ive always been since he was a freshman in high school, (im an ohio boy who has known about lebron since i was 8 or 9 years old)..i knew he was special in high school and will defend him always. Thats where i stand on my reasons for sticking up for him.

    Also wade has proven he can win a championship but im pretty sure there was a key guy on that team that allowed him to do so...SHAQ So its not like he could do it alone.
    I agree with you, that Shaq was instrumental in that team, but Wade averaged almost 35 points a game in the NBA finals and I think most see that championship as him putting the team on his back.

    I think Lebron has always had the chance to be mentioned as one of the greats along with Jordan, Magic, Bird, Bill Russell, Wilt, Elgin Baylor, etc.........but he likely wont be regarded as highly as Tim Duncan for the ability to lead teams to titles. Heck, Derrick Rose is looking like more of a monster than him at this point.

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    Klaatu barada nikto Array title="suitanim has a brilliant future"> suitanim's Avatar

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    Re: This is unreal. Lebron and wade in the 1st and 2nd round

    Please get your facts straight. If you're going to make wild accusations (like saying "LeChoke" hides in playoff games) please be prepared to back it up with SOME kind of fact or figure other than your own hatred of him. Excepting that last game against the Celtics last year, his playoff numbers have been some of the best in history, and they are actually generally DOWN this year.

    Since this is about perception vs. REALITY, let's look at some numbers.
    10 season vs. 11 season
    10 FG% .502
    11 FG% .461

    10 3P% .400
    11 3p% .357

    10 RPG 9.3
    11 RPG 9.1

    10 APG 7.6
    11 APG 5.0

    10 SPG 1.7
    11 SPG 1.4

    10 PPG 29.1
    11 PPG 25.1

    In some instances, 2010 was NOT his best playoff year statistically.

    I also found some information that is incomplete, but through his first 12 Eastern Conference Final games, he averaged 32.1 PPG, 8.8 RPG, and 8.3 APG.

    In what alternate universe would anyone call those numbers "Choking"?
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    Klaatu barada nikto Array title="suitanim has a brilliant future"> suitanim's Avatar

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    Re: This is unreal. Lebron and wade in the 1st and 2nd round

    More "Choking"

    (This is through the Bulls series last season, so not complete, but still highly applicable):

    His overall combination of scoring, rebounding and passing is practically unmatched in NBA history. Only three players with 10+ career playoff games played averaged 7+ assists and 7+ rebounds per game in the history of the NBA. Those three players are LeBron James (8.3 rpg, 7.3 apg), Magic Johnson (7.7 rpg, 12.3 apg) and Jason Kidd (7.4 rpg, 8.8 apg). When you look at the points per game from these three players there is no comparison to LeBron. Magic averaged 19.5 points and Jason Kidd averages 14.9 points. LeBron is averaging 29.5 (which on its own is very impressive, ranking 3rd in NBA history for playoff points per game).
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    Senior Member Array title="El-Gonzo Jackson has a reputation beyond repute"> El-Gonzo Jackson's Avatar

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    Re: This is unreal. Lebron and wade in the 1st and 2nd round

    OK, even though I am not a fan of statistics. Some people like them.

    -2007 LeBron James has a 48% FG percentage in the reg season, but shoots 35% in the NBA finals and gets swept by the Spurs 4-0. (vanishing act in the clutch?)

    -2008 Cavs lose to the Celtics in 7 games, but LBJ establishes a new low for FG % (25.6%) in that series loss.
    Even though LeBron James helped the Cavs sneak back into their series with the Celtics, his shooting percentage has been atrocious. James has the worst percentage of any player in four straight playoff games with a minimum of 60 shots since the ABA-NBA merger in 1976-77. http://espn.go.com/nba/recap/_/id/28...land-cavaliers

    -2009 James has a great playoffs vs. Orlando and shoots 48.7% FG vs Orlando, but still loses out to the Magic. He showed up in a series that time for sure.

    -2010 James shoots 36.8% in 4 losses to the Celtics in the playoffs, but has 2 good games in the wins shooting 56.5%. his 9 turnovers in game 6 was also nothing that says clutch.

    So in the past 4 playoff runs, James has underperformed vs the Celtics, Spurs, Celtics...but played to his average vs the Magic. Face it....the guy is clutch in the clutch.
    Last edited by El-Gonzo Jackson; 05-17-2011 at 08:37 PM.

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    Senior Member Array title="Nadroj 20 is just really nice"> Nadroj 20's Avatar

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    Re: This is unreal. Lebron and wade in the 1st and 2nd round

    Quote Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
    I agree with you, that Shaq was instrumental in that team, but Wade averaged almost 35 points a game in the NBA finals and I think most see that championship as him putting the team on his back.

    I think Lebron has always had the chance to be mentioned as one of the greats along with Jordan, Magic, Bird, Bill Russell, Wilt, Elgin Baylor, etc.........but he likely wont be regarded as highly as Tim Duncan for the ability to lead teams to titles. Heck, Derrick Rose is looking like more of a monster than him at this point.
    I will say that Rose is certainly a team leader but so is lebron. Noah, Boozer and Deng is a better combo then LBJ has ever had, but for the most part that is def rose's team and he will be the main reason they win if they were to win it this year. I'm just afraid people will try to say Rose did it all by himself and LBJ never has been able to...well like i said boozer noah and deng and the fact that the bulls are strong on D and are incredibly deep serve a big purpose as well.
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    Klaatu barada nikto Array title="suitanim has a brilliant future"> suitanim's Avatar

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    Re: This is unreal. Lebron and wade in the 1st and 2nd round

    That's about par for the course. I'm offering expanded stats that show overall performance, and you choose to narrow the data to fit your predetermined prejudiced anti-LBJ position.

    It's also clever to disregard stats in general, instead relying on your own warped opinion (which is obviously largely shaped by your bias against the player). Objectivity be damned...
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    Re: This is unreal. Lebron and wade in the 1st and 2nd round

    I'll play along a little though: Let's look at your reductionist argument a little closer, and focus on the one worst stat you can come up with, FG%. In the Celtics series, James shot OVERALL 44.7%. His career % is 47.9, so he wasn't that far off. He was clearly off from behind the arc, shooting a measly 27%, but I don't believe that lagging in one statistical category constitutes a "choke". To further demonstrate the superiority of looking at the big pictures as opposed to simply narrowing the focus to one category, he had a fine series in several other categories. 7.2 APG, 9.3 RPG, 2.15 SPG, and averaged 27 PPG.

    I'm not so sure how applicable the series against San Antonio really is...James was 22, and he clearly was all the Cavs had. However, he still had a respectable series, regardless of the Spurs smothering defense and the Cavs over-reliance on James. His final numbers were 22 PPG, 6.75 APG, and 7 RPG.
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    Senior Member Array title="El-Gonzo Jackson has a reputation beyond repute"> El-Gonzo Jackson's Avatar

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    Re: This is unreal. Lebron and wade in the 1st and 2nd round

    Quote Originally Posted by Nadroj 20 View Post
    I will say that Rose is certainly a team leader but so is lebron. Noah, Boozer and Deng is a better combo then LBJ has ever had, but for the most part that is def rose's team and he will be the main reason they win if they were to win it this year. I'm just afraid people will try to say Rose did it all by himself and LBJ never has been able to...well like i said boozer noah and deng and the fact that the bulls are strong on D and are incredibly deep serve a big purpose as well.
    I honestly dont know who is the team leader of the Heat, and that is where any legacy that James will have might be watered down.

    I am by no means a Kobe fan, but I think even when Shaq and he were winning titles, they both bickered because they wanted to be the headliner and team leader. Bryant has always been the alpha dog on the Lakers and I think James has chosen to ride sidecar in the hopes of winning a title. That attitude normally seems reserved for aging veterans who have yet to win...not somebody touted to be the next great one.

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    Senior Member Array title="El-Gonzo Jackson has a reputation beyond repute"> El-Gonzo Jackson's Avatar

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    Re: This is unreal. Lebron and wade in the 1st and 2nd round

    Quote Originally Posted by suitanim View Post
    That's about par for the course. I'm offering expanded stats that show overall performance, and you choose to narrow the data to fit your predetermined prejudiced anti-LBJ position.

    It's also clever to disregard stats in general, instead relying on your own warped opinion (which is obviously largely shaped by your bias against the player). Objectivity be damned...
    I'm not debating James overall performances (like expanded stats show). Nobody can say that a 2 time league MVP doesnt play the game well.

    I am saying that when the pressure has been on in the crunch, he has shot the ball worse than Jackie Moon. Most of us can plainly see that, but the links and stats that I quoted show it as well. James may be better suited to play the role of wingman like Pippen or Drexler, rather than the goto guys like Jordan or Hakeem.

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    Klaatu barada nikto Array title="suitanim has a brilliant future"> suitanim's Avatar

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    Re: This is unreal. Lebron and wade in the 1st and 2nd round

    We'll have to disagree. There is no "apples-to-apples" because LBJ never had his own wing-man, and was essentially (and unfairly, hence unearned monikers like "LeChoke") asked to do what all the other greats accomplished completely on his own. Outside of 03-04, when he had Boozer, the roster has been a muddled mess of mediocrity. When your teams second best player is Larry Hughes or Moe Williams, it places WAY too much burden on just one guy, and makes it far too easy for the other team to concentrate all their efforts on stopping that one threat. In light of that fact, I'm surprised to see how good his playoff statistics have been, considering the sorry lot of losers he's had as a supporting cast.

    In fact, there has been a lot of speculation as to what might have been had Boozer (who screwed the Cavs over a lot worse than LBJ ever did) stayed. He was the most talented teammate LBJ ever had, and would have given the Cavs an inside presence they have pretty much lacked every season. HE would have been the sidekick James so desperately needed. The prevailing thought seems to be that they win at least two titles.
    Last edited by suitanim; 05-18-2011 at 12:24 PM.
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    Senior Member Array title="El-Gonzo Jackson has a reputation beyond repute"> El-Gonzo Jackson's Avatar

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    Re: This is unreal. Lebron and wade in the 1st and 2nd round

    James is in somewhat of a parallel to Peyton Manning. A guy that is an all star and MVP who seemed to not be able to come thru in crucial times when his team needed him to elevate his play. Manning got his SB, maybe Wade can get LBJ his title.

    Manning throwing 4 INT's vs Patriots and LeDisappear committing 9 turnoverslast year vs the Celtics in a playoff game 6 both look like what some could call...esophageal constriction.

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    Klaatu barada nikto Array title="suitanim has a brilliant future"> suitanim's Avatar

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    Re: This is unreal. Lebron and wade in the 1st and 2nd round

    I love it when people pretend to be taking the high road, but resort to sophomoric namecalling. Just further evidence of muddied logic and inability to think critically or objectively about subjects through lenses tainted by hatred...

    Anyway, I'm not going to change your mind, so there ain't much need for me to continually pound my head against this proverbial brick wall.
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    Senior Member Array title="El-Gonzo Jackson has a reputation beyond repute"> El-Gonzo Jackson's Avatar

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    Re: This is unreal. Lebron and wade in the 1st and 2nd round

    I love it when people pretend to be taking the high road, while they condescendingly post phrases like "sophomoric namecalling", "muddied logic" and "inability to think critically".

    Lebron James is the greatest closer the game of basketball has ever known.
    Lebron James is a proven playoff goto guy
    Lebron James is the ultimate team leader who does not need the help of proven winners.
    Lebron James is great NBA champion in the same class of Jordan, Bird, Magic, Isiah, Duncan, Baylor, Chamberlain, etc.

    I guess that is what some who lack the ability "to think critically or objectively", want to hear. So I am here to give the people what they want.

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    Klaatu barada nikto Array title="suitanim has a brilliant future"> suitanim's Avatar

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    Re: This is unreal. Lebron and wade in the 1st and 2nd round

    You forgot to call ME a name...
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    Re: This is unreal. Lebron and wade in the 1st and 2nd round

    Lebron played well in the clutch last night. He scored 10 of his teams 14 points in the 4th quarter I think.

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    Re: This is unreal. Lebron and wade in the 1st and 2nd round

    Quote Originally Posted by steeldevil View Post
    Lebron played well in the clutch last night. He scored 10 of his teams 14 points in the 4th quarter I think.
    Certainly helps when you aren't carrying the entire weight of your team, your franchise, and your community on your back, I imagine...
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    Senior Member Array title="polamalubeast has a reputation beyond repute">

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    Re: This is unreal. Lebron and wade in the 1st and 2nd round

    In 2008, LeBron James scored 45 points in game 7 in Boston, but unfortunately, the Cavs had lost.



    In 2009, the Cavs have lost the series against Orlando, even though Lebron was incredible.



    Game five vs Pistons(2007)...One of the best performance out of the history of the NBA playoffs



    And this year ...Game four vs celtics(in Boston)



    Game five vs celtics



    Game two vs Bulls(at Chicago)


  29. #29
    Latin Steel Array title="SMR has a spectacular aura about"> SMR's Avatar

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    Re: This is unreal. Lebron and wade in the 1st and 2nd round

    Quote Originally Posted by polamalubeast View Post
    In 2008, LeBron James scored 45 points in game 7 in Boston, but unfortunately, the Cavs had lost.



    In 2009, the Cavs have lost the series against Orlando, even though Lebron was incredible.



    Game five vs Pistons(2007)...One of the best performance out of the history of the NBA playoffs



    And this year ...Game four vs celtics(in Boston)



    Game five vs celtics



    Game two vs Bulls(at Chicago)

    Cool vids man! Thanks for posting 'em!
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  30. #30
    Klaatu barada nikto Array title="suitanim has a brilliant future"> suitanim's Avatar

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    Re: This is unreal. Lebron and wade in the 1st and 2nd round

    "Lechoke" was his usual choking self: 28 points, 11 boards and 6 assists, and scored 8 down the stretch to lead the Heat to an 18-3 run overcoming a 12 point deficit.

    He nailed two 3's to tie it at 79, then stole a pass off Rose and nailed another jumper to put the Heat up 81-79, THEN blocked Rose's 3 point attempt (which would have tied the game) as time expired.

    What a choker!!!
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