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Thread: Draft Thoughts

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    Spaghetti Time Array title="Chidi29 has a reputation beyond repute"> Chidi29's Avatar

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    Draft Thoughts

    My thoughts on how we did in the draft.

    Cameron Heyward - DE/Ohio St

    Liked the pick and coming into the draft, he was the guy I had really warmed up to the thought of taking if he would have fallen. I'm not a fan of taking defensive ends early but the value was right so I can't complain. Here's my scouting report on Heyward I made prior to the draft so there's no bias involved now that he's our guy.

    The Good
    - Excellent size
    - Fantastic upper body strength
    - Stout at the point of attack
    - Good bull rush
    - Able to shed blocks
    - Asset against the run
    - Clutch
    - Good motor and hustle
    - Experience stunting
    - Good amount of starting experience
    - Solid bloodlines
    The Bad
    - Not a strong pass rusher
    - Doesn't offer much of a repitore
    - Position limited
    - Injury concerns
    Other
    - Becaome starter as a true freshmen
    - Mainly played at RE, sometimes kicked inside
    - Had a sack late against Iowa to seal the win
    - Father "Ironhead" was a running back in the NFL
    - Recovering from Tommy John surgery
    Final Word
    A prototypical five technique prospect. Is solid albeit not spectacular.
    Games Watched
    at Wisconsin, at Iowa

    To add onto a few points I made above.

    The injury that resulted in the Tommy John happened during the Sugar Bowl. He played through it and played effectively. Completely abused Demarcus Love, who was drafted in the mid-rounds. The kid is tough and obviously, talented.

    Thinking back, I think he's a little better of a pass rusher than I came off in the report. I don't want to raise expectations too much but I really see Richard Seymour in the kid. Meaning, he's solid versus the run but will offer more as a pass rusher than your typical five technique.

    He seems like a high character person who is truly happy to be playing for us. I'm excited about the pick.

    Marcus Gilbert - OT/Florida

    Really didn't like this pick. I knew little about Gilbert coming into the draft except for the fact there were some Steelers' draftniks who were high on him. I don't see it.

    His body type is the exact opposite of what you'd expect. He's huge, 6'6 330, but plays with good bend and doesn't double over like a lot of tall tackles do when trying to get leverage. He moves decent enough laterally and can push the end upfield. All of that is good to see.

    But he looks like Tarzan and plays like Jane. He isn't nasty, doesn't finish his blocks, can't stick and drive on contact, is always on the ground, and lunges in the run game. He's passive; maybe that's his personality but hey, Big Daddy Lipscomb would make you apart of the field and then ask if you were ok. I want my trench guys to be nasty; to have that fire that you need when you're going to be facing a player like Haloti Ngata or Rubin in Cleveland.

    Not sure where Gilbert will play either. He played everything but center in college so he does have versatility. Right guard is an obvious need but I don't know how thrilled I'd be with that since that is a power position. The suggestion of him possily playing left tackle down the road is interesting because it's an "athletic" spot but I really don't think you can hide a passive offensive lineman who isn't a strong run blocker.

    I think Gilbert will be a bust.

    Curtis Brown - CB/Texas

    Back to the picks I like. Was a fan of Brown coming into the draft based on what I read and had him mocked to us in the second. Obviously fell a round later. And after watching him, the scouting reports were dead on.

    He is the prototypical Steelers corner. A quick twitch player with great reaction time. He can transition quickly with his quick feet which is huge for our zone heavy scheme. If you're playing off and see a slant, you have to close on that. If you're in Cover 3 or quarters and they throw the quick screen, the hitch, or the deep comeback, you have to get out of your backpedal, plant with your back foot, and drive to the ball. Can't allow YAC otherwise it's pointless to be playing off. He can do that and has good closing speed.

    He's not a big guy but plays big. He'll throw his weight around. Actively plays the run, gets his nose involved whenever he can. A solid tackler in his own right too, another crucial part if you want to play cornerback for us.

    Looks pretty good in coverage too. He stays low in his backpedal. Might pop up a little bit when flipping his hips but it's a minor flaw that can be tought by Carnell Lake. In the two games I watched when he went against Jeff Fuller and Justin Blackmon, two of the better WRs he'll see, he allowed just two or three catches. None to Fuller either, all were against Blackmon who lit up other Longhorns like Aaron Williams.

    Couple of flaws I saw: Not going to be physical at the line because of on overall lack of bulk, doesn't have elite straight-line speed, and his ballskills aren't great. Just two career interceptions. It's not like we ask our CBs to be ballhawks so I'm not concerned.

    Also has special teams value. I saw him as a jammer and I think I heard Lake say he had 57 career tackles on special teams. Big plus and helps you get a helmet that much quicker.

    Lake commented that he could be a nickelback which says a lot about how well we think he can handle LeBeau's offense. He has experience playing every corner spot. Played left corner in the two games I watched him.

    As an aside, what concerns me were Lake's comments about Ike. He didn't sound very confident that we'll re-sign him. He once said, "If we somehow sign Ike..." Maybe that's a poor choice of words but then again, positional coaches aren't as well-versed in coachspeak as Tomlin.

    Cortez Allen - CB/Citadel

    Can't say I know a lot about him. Couldn't find any games of him on espn3. I saw him at the Combine. Long-legged guy with a good build. Goes 6'1 197. He sounds like a project but worth taking a flier on. Didn't have as much time to focus on football because of school and military obligations so he's probably lacking in technique and will need quite a bit of coaching.

    But according to Lake, he held up well in the East/West Shrine Game practices and I've heard some comparisons to Ike Taylor from fans. I read a stat that said he only allowed one third of passes to be completed last year.

    Chris Carter - OLB/Fresno St

    Just finished watching him. I can see why he fell to the fifth. There's usually good reason why a player falls and 31 other teams pass on him multiple times. Maybe I'm just not watching the right film, but I didn't see much.

    I do know he was very productive. That bodes well for him and you can't overlook a guy who simply put up the numbers. He was the WAC defensive player of the year with 16.5 TFL and 11 sacks. And he did have eye-popping numbers at the Combine. Very strong in the shuttle and an impressive vertical.

    In terms of the positives of his game, he does have a good to great first step. Can be explosive off the edge and beat the tackle. He gets his arms extended when rushing. Has a solid bull rush and can drive the tackle into the quarterback. His first step definitely helps his bull rush as he's able to get the OT off balanced and drive him back. Also has experience in stunts. Has looped inside.

    And now the bad.

    He's undersized at 6'1 250. Not much bulk to him. He's cut but isn't physically imposing by any means.

    This guy is terrible against the run. He gets swallowed up, can't shed blocks, washed out of plays, and teams try to run at him. He even got blown up by Ryan Winterswyk, a defensive end playing FB in a power package, in one instance.

    He doesn't have much of a repitore in pass rushing. Doesn't use his hands well and I'm really only seeing a speed move. Doesn't really dip his shoulder off the edge. A small target like him should have no problem getting under and around the tackle if he dips. Make yourself as small a target as possible so that left tackle who is as tall as a power forward can't touch you.

    Didn't drop into coverage. Didn't play on special teams and looking at his bio, there's no mention of special teams work. Did get time at LB his sophomore year but is likely raw in coverage.

    This is the big problem with the lockout. You lose valuable time trying to teach players like Carter. It is very difficult to draft a conversion player. Keith Butler said it takes a few years to really make the transition from DE to OLB and losing this time only lengthens that time span. Especially when the guy hasn't played on special teams. Where's his value if he can't get in enough time to be up to par to play on the teams unit?

    I see him ticketed for the practice squad. Or at the very least, basically redshirting this year and sitting out every game.

    Keith Williams - OG/Nebraska

    Can't say I know much about Williams either. Just don't like the idea of taking a late round OL in general. You're throwing darts at the board and hoping something sticks. He won't solve our woes at right guard.

    Apparently is too aggressive in pass protection and needs coaching. Practice squad material. Chances of contributing are really hurt since we only have seven active lineman on gameday.

    Baron Batch - RB/Texas Tech

    He's got a much better chance to stick than Noah Herron or Cedric Humes. Decent build at 5'9 200. Isn't a stick. Has that third down mold. Lots of experience blocking and catching in Tech's passing offense though they were more balanced this year.

    More quick than fast but that's ok.

    Perhaps the best quality he has is character. You're not going to find a better guy than him. Very religious and his faith got him through a very rough childhood in which his dad left him and his mom was disease-ridden and couldn't provide for his family. He ended up living with a teammate in high school so he could get to practice and play football. Very sad story.

    Tore his Achilles in 2006. Became infected and doctors said he'd never play again. He sat out the 2007 season and came back in '08.

    Been through a lot and overcame it. Kid you root for and because of his pass blocking, he'll give Dwyer a run for his money.

    --------------

    Overall, I like the draft. Aside from Gilbert, I'm happy.

  2. #2
    Scouting talent downunder Array title="Aussie_steeler is a name known to all"> Aussie_steeler's Avatar

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    Re: Draft Thoughts

    My take is:

    1. Cameron Heyward - great pick. DE for the next 10-12 years. Could have lived with Ras I Dowling or Derek Sherrod.

    2. Marcus Gilbert - OT. The coaches have 2 years of scouting on him and inside info from Maurkice. Will be the backup swingman who can possibly cover 4 of the 5 O line positions on game day. Wait and see approach with this pick. Big drop off in OT's beyond this point in draft. Could have traded down 5 -10 spots and still got him.

    3. Curtis Brown - CB - love this pick. It speaks for itself. At worst #3 CB in 2013

    4. Cortez Allen - CB Project pick based on measurables, character and instincts. I can see a stud free safety down the line ( just a gut feeling)

    5. Chris Carter - OLB - straight to the practice squad. he has no chance of making the conversion due to the lockout. Good luck with no minicamps and OTA's

    6. Keith Williams - OG - I would have gone Tyler Sash S or possibly Jerrel Powe NT here. I can see the nasty streak and rawness that Kugler would love. He is straight to the practice squad as well

    7. Baron Batch - RB - cant believe this guy visited and got out of town without being reported. One sniff of this guy as a prospect and I think we would have been all over him on this board. Great character guy who played every down in a third down style offense. Look out Mewelde and Dwyer, there could be some competition here. I think we all like this pick and may become the John Kuhn (board favourite) of this decade

    No thrills draft that inspires confidence. It sends the message that the organisation is comfortable with the majority of the squad. First four to the lineup.

    "NUMBER 7 FOR OUR BELOVED ONE IN HEAVEN"

  3. #3
    Administrator Array title="Texasteel has a reputation beyond repute"> Texasteel's Avatar

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    Re: Draft Thoughts

    Very nice Chidi. I think you know Hayward and Brown are my to favorites as well and are to players we can put to use, hopefully this year. I also like Batch quite a bit, but I probably saw a bit more of him than most and that may have slanted my opinion. ( You know I sort of get attached to some of these kids.) I didn't think that we would draft him, but I'm not surprised that we did.

    I've had questions about Gilbert myself, as did a couple of others here, but started to warm up to him at the last. I don't know if you can coach a mean streak or not but it someone can piss this kid off he could slide inside, a position neither you are I are happy with.

    Keith Williams is the pick I'm not happy with, but you know that.

    In the end I try to give these kids the benefit of the doubt since the powers that be must have seen something they liked.

    I am pretty pleased with the draft as well.

    Thanks for all the work that you put into this, and the work you are about to. TC will be a busy time for you,,,,,,,,, I hope.

    PS I'm starting my 2012 watch list.

    AML

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    Administrator Array title="Texasteel has a reputation beyond repute"> Texasteel's Avatar

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    Re: Draft Thoughts

    Aussie, as always you show a sharp eye for talent. You are dead right about the 6th round. There were players on the board that may have made this team better. I don't think we got one.

    Thank for all your work as well. I've already got a head start on ya little brother.

    AML

  5. #5
    Spaghetti Time Array title="Chidi29 has a reputation beyond repute"> Chidi29's Avatar

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    Re: Draft Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Texasteel View Post
    Very nice Chidi. I think you know Hayward and Brown are my to favorites as well and are to players we can put to use, hopefully this year. I also like Batch quite a bit, but I probably saw a bit more of him than most and that may have slanted my opinion. ( You know I sort of get attached to some of these kids.) I didn't think that we would draft him, but I'm not surprised that we did.

    I've had questions about Gilbert myself, as did a couple of others here, but started to warm up to him at the last. I don't know if you can coach a mean streak or not but it someone can piss this kid off he could slide inside, a position neither you are I are happy with.

    Keith Williams is the pick I'm not happy with, but you know that.

    In the end I try to give these kids the benefit of the doubt since the powers that be must have seen something they liked.

    I am pretty pleased with the draft as well.

    Thanks for all the work that you put into this, and the work you are about to. TC will be a busy time for you,,,,,,,,, I hope.

    PS I'm starting my 2012 watch list.
    I think it's very tough not to get attached to a kid like Batch. Seems wiser and more mature than some people twice his age.

    Thanks for you work too Tex. You, Aussie, and Perry always make for good conversation.

  6. #6
    Klaatu barada nikto Array title="suitanim has a brilliant future"> suitanim's Avatar

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    Re: Draft Thoughts

    Super Johnny-come-lately here, but here's my 2 cents:
    -I like Cam Heyward a lot. I watched him IN EVERY SINGLE GAME HE PLAYED IN (that's right, I have not missed an OSU game in years), and watched him progress every single year. He moves really well for his size, and has the ability to take over games (he was unblockable against Arkansas, and it's not like they didn't see good DE's in the SEC). OSU has taken some hits lately, but this kid is 100% solid in the character department.
    - Don't know about this kid from Florida, but we are batting about .750 with Gator OL (hit with Pouncey, mixed results with Starks. I'm hoping all the potential can be coached up.
    Brown is a great pick, and I think if we can get this labor dispute settled, he can contribute right away. He seems pretty polished.

    Now, here is my dilemma...I think we needed to start looking for the next Casey Hampton, and this is around where Jurell Casey was drafted. I thought he would have fit the bill.

    I like Allen as a project...could certainly be the next Ike, BUT he could also be the next Ricardo Colclough. High risk/high reward.

    The rest of the picks I don't know about EXCEPT for Batch at #7. He caught like 140 passes at TT. I don't know if he can block, but if he can (and he'll need that skill as a 3rd down back picking up the blitz in passing downs), he's got a shot.
    Fire Goodell

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    Senior Member Array title="7willBheaven is on a distinguished road"> 7willBheaven's Avatar

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    Re: Draft Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by suitanim View Post
    Super Johnny-come-lately here, but here's my 2 cents:
    -I like Cam Heyward a lot. I watched him IN EVERY SINGLE GAME HE PLAYED IN (that's right, I have not missed an OSU game in years), and watched him progress every single year. He moves really well for his size, and has the ability to take over games (he was unblockable against Arkansas, and it's not like they didn't see good DE's in the SEC). OSU has taken some hits lately, but this kid is 100% solid in the character department.
    - Don't know about this kid from Florida, but we are batting about .750 with Gator OL (hit with Pouncey, mixed results with Starks. I'm hoping all the potential can be coached up.
    Brown is a great pick, and I think if we can get this labor dispute settled, he can contribute right away. He seems pretty polished.

    Now, here is my dilemma...I think we needed to start looking for the next Casey Hampton, and this is around where Jurell Casey was drafted. I thought he would have fit the bill.

    I like Allen as a project...could certainly be the next Ike, BUT he could also be the next Ricardo Colclough. High risk/high reward.

    The rest of the picks I don't know about EXCEPT for Batch at #7. He caught like 140 passes at TT. I don't know if he can block, but if he can (and he'll need that skill as a 3rd down back picking up the blitz in passing downs), he's got a shot.
    Jurrell Casey is not a NT...he is a DT in a 4-3...he possibly (very slim chance) could be a DE in a 3-4 as he is like an inch or so shorter than Ziggy.

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    Senior Member Array title="LLT has a reputation beyond repute"> LLT's Avatar

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    Re: Draft Thoughts

    My thoughts on the draft.


    Cameron Heyward:
    Great pick. Perfect example of the Steelers not panicking by reaching for a need pick. They stood pat and took the best player available. The prospect of having Ziggy Hood and Cameron Heyward as our future DE starters is something to be excited about.
    Heyward's lack of true pass rushing skills is negated by his move to the 3-4 five technique. He possesses all the necessary strength to stack and shed and he has the exlosive first step and hands to get around edge blocks. Also has a spin move that he uses to get off the block and find the ball carrier. He is assignment savy and has great football intelligence. He is driven to be more than the son of "Ironhead" and wants to make his own mark in the NFL...showing no sense of "entightlement". Great work ethic and character
    Heyward has the intincts and closing speed to meet the RB at the hole. Long arms and great wrap up tackling technique. I love how he tackles through the ball carrier instead of just throwing himself at them. He can be neutralized by double teams, which is okay in the 3-4 as it will free up our linebackers.
    He will be able to sit behind our starters for a couple more years...by the time he becomes a full time starter, his intelligence and work ethic will ensure us an even more "refined" product then we see right now.

    Marcus Gilbert
    Gilbert played Right Tackle for the blind-side of Left-handed Tim Tebow before moving to Left Tackle and covering the blind-side of Right-handed John Brantley last season.
    Quick feet...and moves well laterally. Great anchor and nasty hand punch. Gilbert is a striker...hits his man hard then sustains the block while keeping his feet moving. Has respectable balance and good length to mirror then steer defenders.
    Could be being an above average run blocker and pass blocker.
    When Gilbert played against a 3-4 set this year he seemed to have some difficulty reading the linebackers. I saw him whiff on one play when he failed to read the blitz and on another play he blocked... noone.... after the linebacker pushed forward then fell back into coverage. I wouldnt be real concerned about that however. Most college offensive linemen see so little of a "true" 3-4 scheme that it is usually hard for them to pick up stunts and blitzes. I have all the faith in the world that Kugler will coach him up on what to look for. The ability is there...he just needs the experience. I made my bold prediction before...so I will stick with it. At SOME POINT....he will be on the left side.

    Curtis Brown
    I will take my lumps on this one. I predicted every Texas CB as a possible Steelers pick....except Curtis Brown. When I first watched film on him, I got caught up in his lack of physicallity, apparant lack of functional strength, and his poor tackling technique. Because of all that I put blinders on in regards to his pass defense skills.
    After we drafted him I went back with an open mind and could see the nice back pedal his ability to transition out of his pedal while breaking on the ball. The thing that is without guestion, very impressive about Brown is that he showed his ELITE agility and his stop and turn ability at the combine by running a 4.0 shuttle
    Since it takes a year or two to learn LeBeau's system anyway...Brown will be able to utilize that time to bulk up and gain the strength necessary to be our #2 CB. I know he played alot of special teams in college...but I have to wonder if his thin frame and poor tackling technique will hold him back from helping us on ST's in the near future.

    Cortez Allen
    Allen has virtually the same speed as Brown and is also quick footed...He is a bigger however at 6'1 197 lbs. Coach Lake used the word "versatile" three times, after Allen was drafted, when describing the young CB. Which makes me wonder if he isnt going to be, at least tested, as a Safety. He seems a liitle High-hipped and doesnt have the change of direction ability of Curtis Brown... but possesses excellent read-react skills.
    All this makes me very suspicious as to where we may see Allen line up in our defense. His skill set and size (and Coach Lakes comments) seem destined for his development as a FS. If not...we need to remember that this young man only played one year of high school football and has a VERY high ceiling due to untapped potential.

    Chris Carter
    Defensive End prospect who will have to make the transition to OLB. Great measurable at the combine...put up incredible power numbers. He is built virtually identical to our existing OLBs. He is an inch shorter than Woodley and Worilds and about the same wight...and taller and heavier than Harrison, though obviously not as strong. (Although he does appear to have pretty good strength).

    Carter has virtually no experience in coverage which certainly hurt his draft stock as a 3-4 OLB, but he has one of the better first steps of any player in this draft. He can get engulged by bigger lineman when playing with one hand on the ground but I noticed that when he starts the play from the standing position, he has a nice spin move and he uses his long arms to disengage from blockers.

    I actually like this pick. Most of his negatives are from his "unknown qualities" due to lack of coverage experience and having never played OLB. I think that if he can develop the proper instincts ...we might have a 5th round steal.

    Keith Williams
    Why?

    I should just stop there....Williams has the trivecta: Short arms. Poor technique. Slow off the snap. In his defense..when he gets motivated he does seem possess good athleticism. However, he uses poor hand placement...has virtually no hand punch...and lets defenders get into his body. On a good deal of the video I was watching on him, he seems to lean out too far and lunge for defenders...which is, no doubt, why he seems to be on the ground so much.
    Probably overdrafted due to being from Nebraska...where they generally pump out pretty good linemen. IF...he can get a coach who is willing to stick their foot up his considerable butt....and can motivate him to work on technique...he will make the team.
    As of now, I am going to say he is the least likely of this years draft picks to do so. I think we would have been better off with Kicker Kai Forbath or DT Ian Williams. If they felt like they neede to go with an OG...I would have preferred Maurice Hurt from Florida.

    Baron Batch
    I'm such a big softie...i just love this kid. The thing that jumps out at you the most is this Kids Character and demeanor. Extremely humble...extremely mature. Batch said that he was planning his life as if he wasnt drafted, and appreciates the chance.
    On the field I think we are going to be surprised. batch runs incredibly tight routes. He has gifted hands and obvious guickness. He seems to sometimes hesitate before hitting the hole and his running style seems to be a bit upright, but he is shifty and shows the ability to make himself small. He has very good potential to make this team as a third down back. He shows a willingness to block...and his recieving skills out of the backfield would be an asset to our RB corp.
    Now here is what I really am excited about in regards to Batch....He is quick enough ...runs such good routes...and has such good hands...that I can see us lining him up in the slot reciever spot.
    Imagine the variety of plays possible if we can line him up in the backfield but move him up as a reciever during the snap count. We could set up all kinds of mismatches with his versatility. Sstart out with 3 WR and 2 RB in the backfield...then move Batch up to the line. Start out with 4 WR and Batch in the backfield...then move him up to a 5 wide formation. Or do the reverse, and start out with 5 wide and then drop batch into the backfield and leave 4 wide. Gotta love the possibilities!


    All in all I think this is going to be a pretty good draft with only one player that I can say probably wont make the roster (Williams)....and one that is a fringe roster possibility (Carter)...the rest I think are pretty good picks.
    Last edited by LLT; 05-04-2011 at 04:31 PM.
    "I believe the game is designed to reward the ones who hit the hardest. If you can't take it, you shouldn't play"

    -- Jack Lambert --

  9. #9
    Senior Member Array title="7willBheaven is on a distinguished road"> 7willBheaven's Avatar

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    Re: Draft Thoughts

    Well I did have a nice loooong post typed up...then someone (*coughLLTcough*) accidentally locked the thread and my post got lost. So I have to start over...I'll probably just do a short version of what I had before...when I get back from my errands.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Array title="st33lersguy has a reputation beyond repute">

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    Re: Draft Thoughts

    A few of my thoughts

    1. Why didn't Pittsburgh draft a nose tackle. I would think that a team that went to 3 super bowls in 6 years would realize the importance of the nose tackle in the 3-4. Pittsburgh needed to draft someone and groom him behind Casey Hampton before Hampton to retire and the fact that they had 7 picks to do so and didn't is inexcusable.

    2. I like the Heyward and Gilbert picks, Heyward is a tough player and a great fit for what is asked out of a 5-tech and I think Gilbert can provide solid depth at tackle and easily beat out John Scott for atleast depth-filler

    3. Why did they wait to the 6th round to draft a guard. They needed to draft someone who could upgrade Ramon Foster for the starting guard spot.

    4. Can we please stop drafting OLBs we don't need. We have pressing needs and do not need to concern ourselves with adding 4-3 defensive ends that might play in 3 years

    5. I am not sure about the Cortez Allen pick. He is a project and this pick was better spent on a guard or nose tackle

    Grade C+

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    AKA xfl2001fan-GO BROWNS! Array title="GitNoLuv is on a distinguished road"> GitNoLuv's Avatar

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    Re: Draft Thoughts

    1. Cameron Heyward - DE - Hated this pick. The guy is a stud. Did not want to see one of my OSU guys going to a division rival...particularly to one that is perfectly suited to his strengths.

    2. Marcus Gilbert - OT - I'm fairly comfortable with this pick. He seems more suited to backup OL (something you guys desperately need) but not one who is going to really make things tough for my team.

    3. Curtis Brown - CB - Hate this pick too. This is a kid I had hoped the Browns would grab...instead we traded up to get a WR with little experience out of UNC...could have traded down, still grabbed him (and gotten more draft choices.)

    4. Cortez Allen - From here on out, it's all about projects anyways...and this guy is one. I don't like that he has the size to match up with bigger WR's in the division...but from a polish standpoint, he's got a ways to go.

    5. Chris Carter - OLB - Loved this pick here. You guys are so deep at LB that it's not even funny.

    6. Keith Williams - OG - I am not as comfortable with this pick...not that I expect him to have an impact...but I always have to worry about a late round steal fromt he Steelers...and this just feels like one of those moments to me. Forget the game tape. Forget the measurables...I worry that your "hit" will come when/where you most need it...and he seems to strike that moment with me.

    7. Baron Batch - RB - It is what it is. A 3rd down back to replace Moore? Possibly. I'm not too comfortable with this pick either because he seems like such a steal to me. Here's a guy who may be a regular in the rotation. I think I'd rather see Moore.
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    Senior Member Array title="7willBheaven is on a distinguished road"> 7willBheaven's Avatar

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    Re: Draft Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by st33lersguy View Post
    A few of my thoughts

    1. Why didn't Pittsburgh draft a nose tackle. I would think that a team that went to 3 super bowls in 6 years would realize the importance of the nose tackle in the 3-4. Pittsburgh needed to draft someone and groom him behind Casey Hampton before Hampton to retire and the fact that they had 7 picks to do so and didn't is inexcusable.

    2. I like the Heyward and Gilbert picks, Heyward is a tough player and a great fit for what is asked out of a 5-tech and I think Gilbert can provide solid depth at tackle and easily beat out John Scott for atleast depth-filler

    3. Why did they wait to the 6th round to draft a guard. They needed to draft someone who could upgrade Ramon Foster for the starting guard spot.

    4. Can we please stop drafting OLBs we don't need. We have pressing needs and do not need to concern ourselves with adding 4-3 defensive ends that might play in 3 years

    5. I am not sure about the Cortez Allen pick. He is a project and this pick was better spent on a guard or nose tackle

    Grade C+
    My thoughts on your thoughts

    1. Because the team didnt do something that some of the fans wanted is inexcusable? They apparently do have a plan for things and to get Casey's replacement over the next year or so...they will be fine.

    3. Gilbert can play G or T. Also they drafted C. Scott last year in the 5th that can play G or T. Plus Foster didnt do as bad as you seem to think, as the season went on. And just because the guy they took a guy in the 6th doesnt mean hes garbage either...he could easily come in and kick butt...you dont know.

    4. They did need an OLB...the ONLY depth behind Wood/Harrison is Worilds...as they lost out on Gibson by cutting him to keep A. Smith active. They needed another guy...if Wood or Harrison go down and Worilds as to come in then there is nothing. Yes Timmons could be moved if needed, but then you short change ILB. It was a need and a great value pick for a player rated as high as a 2nd rounder.

    5. Theres not gonna be much difference between a 4th round G and a 6th round G at this point. Allen is of the Ike Taylor mold, may take a couple years but in the end should be worth it.

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    Senior Member Array title="7willBheaven is on a distinguished road"> 7willBheaven's Avatar

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    Re: Draft Thoughts

    Ok now onto a shorter version of my thoughts that I typed earlier.

    Heyward - Stud. Should come around quicker than Hood based on how/where he played in college.

    Gilbert - Should be at least a starting RT. If like LLT says he becomes a starting LT...EVEN BETTER. He can play G too, but I think I'd rather see him at T. Some say he could have been had in the 3rd...not sure about that. Even though only 3 OL players went in the 3rd (Rackey, Reid, Bartksdale)...any of those teams could have taken him or another. Being he was rated a 2-3rd rounder and they got him at the bottom of the 2nd isnt too bad.

    Brown - Hopefully a potential stud. I didnt know much about until after they picked him and I like what I've seen. Should immediately be the nickel/#3 CB for the team and also contribute on ST right off the bat. Eventually to be the #1 or #2 CB.

    Allen - Same here didnt know a lot about him...but he should at least become a #3 CB or even move to S...if he becomes half of what Ike has I'd be happy.

    Carter - While Chidi said he is undersized I do not see that as the case. He's 6'1 248lbs...Harrison is 6' 250lbs. He's in the mold of Harrison not Wood. While he did pretty good in college as a DE...i DO think he was undersized for that position even in college...but he managed to play good enough to get a DPOTY award and as high as a 2nd round grade. Can he be a future starter, not sure...but they definitely needed depth with Gibson being gone so he will help out as far as that is concerned. Great value for a 5th rounder.

    Williams - While many people may not like this pick...I guess I'm neutral on it...and taking a more of a wait and see approach. Even if he becomes a solid/dependable backup...I'd be happy...we shall see.

    Batch - Didnt know about him either...but after researching him he seemed like a great 3rd down back and can fill in easily for Moore if he doesnt come back.

    Overall of course it wasnt "sexy" (I hate using that word for a draft)...it was a "Steeler Draft"...some picks it will be a few years before we might see something...while others we could see something from them in their rookie years (or the following yr). I'd say if i had to "grade" it...a B to B+...and if some of these late rounders become solid (and the early picks become what we think they will) it could become an A or A+

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    Senior Member Array title="Steeltreal will become famous soon enough"> Steeltreal's Avatar

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    Re: Draft Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie_steeler View Post
    It sends the message that the organisation is comfortable with the majority of the squad.
    I wonder how comfortable they are with Farrior, Foote and Fox. Sylvester has to take over the other spot at some point midseason.
    "It comes with the Territory" - Floyd 'Money' Mayweather

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    Re: Draft Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Steeltreal View Post
    I wonder how comfortable they are with Farrior, Foote and Fox. Sylvester has to take over the other spot at some point midseason.
    Farrior played better in 2010 than he did in 2009. If that will continue who knows. But if he still is playing solid then he'll play. If he slips some...I could see them rotating Foote and Sylvester in. I dont see any way they just out right/completely yank Farrior (besides injury). But to go back to them being comfortable with who they have. Apparently they are as they didnt draft another ILB...while there are some other LBs on the roster that are unknown also...so who knows what they have there. But I would say yes they think they're fine with what they have.

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    Re: Draft Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Steeltreal View Post
    I wonder how comfortable they are with Farrior, Foote and Fox. Sylvester has to take over the other spot at some point midseason.
    http://www.steelers.com/video-and-au...c-a87023936beb

    Keith Butler has plenty to say about this question.

    He is a much better judge than I can ever be

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    Klaatu barada nikto Array title="suitanim has a brilliant future"> suitanim's Avatar

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    Re: Draft Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by 7willBheaven View Post
    Jurrell Casey is not a NT...he is a DT in a 4-3...he possibly (very slim chance) could be a DE in a 3-4 as he is like an inch or so shorter than Ziggy.
    Here is what Dave Razanno had to say about Casey:

    "There’s a defensive tackle at USC named Jurrell Casey, and he’s the protypical nose [tackle]," Razzano said. "He’s like another Michael Carter, who we got in the fifth round in San Francisco – one of the all-time steals. I see he’s rated as the ninth-best defensive tackle. If they do a [mock] re-draft in a few years, he’ll be a top-seven pick."

    "Watch him split the double-team here," Razzano said as Casey burst between the Bears’ center and left guard. "Look at that nasty explosiveness. I’m telling you, it’s [like the Pittsburgh Steelers’] Casey Hampton. He has short-area quickness and enough of a motor to satisfy me. You have to realize, defensive linemen don’t all have great work ethic. That’s why they’re big. But [Jurrell Casey’s] a naturally explosive guy, and they’re hard to find."


    Fire Goodell

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    Senior Member Array title="7willBheaven is on a distinguished road"> 7willBheaven's Avatar

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    Re: Draft Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by suitanim View Post
    Here is what Dave Razanno had to say about Casey:

    "There’s a defensive tackle at USC named Jurrell Casey, and he’s the protypical nose [tackle]," Razzano said. "He’s like another Michael Carter, who we got in the fifth round in San Francisco – one of the all-time steals. I see he’s rated as the ninth-best defensive tackle. If they do a [mock] re-draft in a few years, he’ll be a top-seven pick."

    "Watch him split the double-team here," Razzano said as Casey burst between the Bears’ center and left guard. "Look at that nasty explosiveness. I’m telling you, it’s [like the Pittsburgh Steelers’] Casey Hampton. He has short-area quickness and enough of a motor to satisfy me. You have to realize, defensive linemen don’t all have great work ethic. That’s why they’re big. But [Jurrell Casey’s] a naturally explosive guy, and they’re hard to find."


    While I respect this persons opinion...it is just that one persons opinion...I have never seen him mentioned on any of the top sites or anywhere period at a NT. Everyone says he's a 4-3 DT only. He's too light to be a NT also...he'd have to add 15-20 pounds to be a solid NT size...and if he could do that and have the playing ability of a NT...then maybe. But its highly doubtful...thats why TN a 4-3 team selected him. If they took him in the 3rd as a POSSIBLE PROJECT NT with no assurance he could add the weight and do everything...would be a huge risk and a wasted pick.

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    Re: Draft Thoughts

    I've gotta say I had Jurrell Casey as a NT in my final board mock draft.

    I read similiar scouting reports that had him as a potential NT.

    I based that on nose tackle experience at college, short stout frame with sand in pants, and strength that could translate to the position.

    Hey, I am no expert but I can see why some people would make the same assumption that I did.

    In hindsight looking further back at reports and interviews it is obvious that Casey prefers being disruptive that being an occupier.

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    Spaghetti Time Array title="Chidi29 has a reputation beyond repute"> Chidi29's Avatar

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    Re: Draft Thoughts

    LLT,

    Great info.

    I do agree with you on Gilbert in that he may end up on the left side. He moves well enough and as you've talked about, plays with good bend.

    But I don't agree with your overall assesment of him as you can tell. I don't want to take a guy who has to be coached up in the second round. Just don't see that nasty play in him and his technique in the run game leaves a lot to be desired.

    I actually think Brown is a solid tackler. At the very least, he's scrappy and actively plays the run.

    Carter may have the same listed size but he isn't nearly as big as Harrison. Harrison is strong as an ox and has a lot of bulk, a lot of muscle. Carter looks frail in comparison and just looking at him, you can tell the builds are different. It's not just about heights and weights. It's about the amount of muscle and the overall makeup of your body that creates a build.

    I think every fan will be pulling for Batch.

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    Spaghetti Time Array title="Chidi29 has a reputation beyond repute"> Chidi29's Avatar

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    Re: Draft Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by st33lersguy View Post
    A few of my thoughts

    1. Why didn't Pittsburgh draft a nose tackle. I would think that a team that went to 3 super bowls in 6 years would realize the importance of the nose tackle in the 3-4. Pittsburgh needed to draft someone and groom him behind Casey Hampton before Hampton to retire and the fact that they had 7 picks to do so and didn't is inexcusable.

    2. I like the Heyward and Gilbert picks, Heyward is a tough player and a great fit for what is asked out of a 5-tech and I think Gilbert can provide solid depth at tackle and easily beat out John Scott for atleast depth-filler

    3. Why did they wait to the 6th round to draft a guard. They needed to draft someone who could upgrade Ramon Foster for the starting guard spot.

    4. Can we please stop drafting OLBs we don't need. We have pressing needs and do not need to concern ourselves with adding 4-3 defensive ends that might play in 3 years

    5. I am not sure about the Cortez Allen pick. He is a project and this pick was better spent on a guard or nose tackle

    Grade C+
    For what it's worth, I was reading an article about a rookie nose tackle the other day. A Bills' scout said nose tackle is one of the easier positions to learn. Our scheme is more complex and I think it's a difficult position to transition to because of the big differences in assignments from a college NT, who usually play in 4-3 base defenses, and nose tackle.

    But any player could be able to pick up the playbook quickly. Casey Hampton started eleven games his rookie year.

    I wanted us to take a RG too but the board didn't do us a lot of favors.

    I was fine with taking an OLB. We put a high priority on the front seven and the OLBs. We should always be looking to add players to that group.

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    Administrator Array title="Texasteel has a reputation beyond repute"> Texasteel's Avatar

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    Re: Draft Thoughts

    I really think that next year is going to be a better year for us to pick up a good NT. I've already started a list and already have a favorite..

    AML

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    Spaghetti Time Array title="Chidi29 has a reputation beyond repute"> Chidi29's Avatar

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    Re: Draft Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Texasteel View Post
    I really think that next year is going to be a better year for us to pick up a good NT. I've already started a list and already have a favorite..
    You gotta give us a name.

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    Re: Draft Thoughts

    Hey good post Chidi, but I really like that Batch kid a bit more than you may. There is something about him. Time will tell, hopefully sooner rather than later.
    WE are the NFL's All-Time Dynasty!


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    Administrator Array title="Texasteel has a reputation beyond repute"> Texasteel's Avatar

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    Re: Draft Thoughts

    I'll put out the list later, but the one I'm listing as a favorite (right now) is

    Josh Chapman of Alabama, 6'1", 310lb he is cut for a NT and could put on another 15lb easy. He's the strongest player on the squad and was the strongest when Cody was on the team.

    Any other favorites

    AML

  26. #26
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    Re: Draft Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by SMR View Post
    Hey good post Chidi, but I really like that Batch kid a bit more than you may. There is something about him. Time will tell, hopefully sooner rather than later.
    Make no mistake, I do like Batch and think he was definitely worth the seventh round pick.

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    Klaatu barada nikto Array title="suitanim has a brilliant future"> suitanim's Avatar

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    Re: Draft Thoughts

    Interesting...I was reading a Titans MB and several members were speculating that the team was switching to a 3-4 BECAUSE of he selection of Casey, whom they also had pegged as a 3-4 NT. For what it's worth, I have the Browns 1st Rd pick as a pure 3-4 NT as well, and he's going to be playing in a 4-3.
    Fire Goodell

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    Re: Draft Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by suitanim View Post
    Interesting...I was reading a Titans MB and several members were speculating that the team was switching to a 3-4 BECAUSE of he selection of Casey, whom they also had pegged as a 3-4 NT. For what it's worth, I have the Browns 1st Rd pick as a pure 3-4 NT as well, and he's going to be playing in a 4-3.
    I do not see anything of the sort on the Titans MB...plus I remember reading after the new staff/etc was put together they are staying 4-3. Plus they really dont have the players for a 3-4. As far as Taylor going to the Browns...it doesnt matter if hes the #1 NT in the draft...he is still a DT and can play either position...that argument has nothing to do with anything...as its only more rare that a DT can play NT...not that a NT can play either DT position.

  29. #29
    Klaatu barada nikto Array title="suitanim has a brilliant future"> suitanim's Avatar

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    Re: Draft Thoughts

    I'm really not going to argue with someone who's so completely positive they are so completely right about something that is consistently inconsistent.

    You do, however, realize that there are probably more than one or even a few Titans message boards, right? Not to put too fine a point upon it, but the new staff of the Titans also expressed the wish to function as the Patriots defense does, which (I'm sure in your infinite wisdom you already know) means that they employ both a 3-4 and a 4-3 situationally? Right?
    Fire Goodell

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    Re: Draft Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by suitanim View Post
    I'm really not going to argue with someone who's so completely positive they are so completely right about something that is consistently inconsistent.

    You do, however, realize that there are probably more than one or even a few Titans message boards, right? Not to put too fine a point upon it, but the new staff of the Titans also expressed the wish to function as the Patriots defense does, which (I'm sure in your infinite wisdom you already know) means that they employ both a 3-4 and a 4-3 situationally? Right?
    Oh I dont care if some people think he could be a NT or not...thats cool with my...I'm just sticking to my point and the facts of various sites and info and such that I've read on him. As far as the Titans MB...generally when I see people say the Titans MB...Steelers MB...etc...I take that as the actual teams MB...compared to saying I saw something on Steelers Universe MB or whatever...so thats the one I checked was the Titans MB. I know there are others out there.

    My paint point in all of this from the beginning thats seems to got lost here is the Steelers drafting this guy in the 2nd round (because he didnt make it to their pick in the 3rd). A project player who you dont even know could beef up and handle the position or not...is not worth that type of pick...that was my main point...not just for this player but ANY player that would be a decent project taken that high...i just do not agree with.

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