So last year we had 5 ILB 3 OLB minus Gibson, Straight to the PS for Carter if both Foote and Fox are retained.Originally Posted by Aussie_steeler
So last year we had 5 ILB 3 OLB minus Gibson, Straight to the PS for Carter if both Foote and Fox are retained.
"It comes with the Territory" - Floyd 'Money' Mayweather
Thats the way I see it. Timmons counts as cover both inside and out.
Carter and Ellis would be competing for spots on the practice squad
My concern is similar to most posters here. can we afford to keep Harrison, Woodley and Timmons on huge contracts??? I hope a way can be found
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Actually they kept 9 LBs last year total. Gibson was of course the 9th. The only reason he was let go was to keep Smith active and bring in another DL. So it would not surprise me if they kept 9 again. However with Fox being a FA...they may not re-sign him and just keep 8 and put Carter in his place. Either way be it 8 or 9 like last year...theres a good chance Carter WILL make it.
Add in Farrior to that group...his deal isnt HUGE but still good money. And I think 1-2 of those 2 will be gone within the next 1-2 years (namely Harrison and Farrior obviously).
OK, I'll bite. By that logic, than you would certainly disagree with:
2007- Lawrence Timmons (1) and Lamarr Woodley (2)
2008- Bruce Davis (3)
2009- Ziggy Hood (1)
2010- Jason Worilds (2)
Because none of them were expected to start, and all were chosen in high rounds as "projects"...
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I think the plan will be to have Worilds replace Harrison, just like the succession from Porter, Gildon, Greene, etc. Woodley and Timmons will be the priorities to pay decent contracts to. I just wish we were able to keep Thad Gibson around last year and then we would not have had to spend a 5th round pick on another OLB. I think Demarcus Love in the 5th would have solidified the RG spot in a year.
I'll admit I wasnt sold on Hood or even Worilds (thought he was a bit of a reach)...and they've proved me wrong so far. Timmons and Woodley...Timmons was already an LB...Woodley i didnt know squat about at the beginning. I do not see moving from DE to OLB as that much of a transition...compared to some other positions. Bruce Davis I NEVER cared for either...he made the move to LB...but he just sucked haha.
My main point with J Casey being a project is him needing to beef up some (he's just too light for an NFL/Steelers NT) and still being able to play the position...thats a big question for any player. Compared to just transitioning to another position (DE to LB say). Yes those players you listed were technically all projects...and as I mentioned some of them I didnt care for at the time and I'm happy they proved me wrong. But none of them needed to had 15-20lbs AND move positions. A players ability/etc can greatly change when trying to bulk up like that...thats the big risk in my eyes that would make him a bigger project...even greater risks than any of the guys you mentioned. Thats my point.
Why do you continually insist that ONLY 330 lb guys can play nose tackle? I can give you an example of another NT in the NFL who weighs 305 lbs and does a fine job when he's called into duty....his name is Chris Hoke and he plays for the Steelers!
How about Jay Ratliff? He did fine for years in the Cowboys 3-4 at NT and he weighed in at about 305...
The point is, the qualifications to play NT in the NFL do not begin and end with how fat the player is...but what do I (and many, many, many NFL talent scouts) know, eh?
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I know smaller guys CAN sometimes play NT...Hoke has filled in just fine when needed over the years. I'd prefer a bigger body to plug that hole in the middle...with O-linemen being usually 315-360 in some cases...I'd like to have some beef on the other side to combat that, especially being the 3-4. And in this era...the majority of NT are bigger body guys, I can think of 5 or 6 off the top of my head that are good to great NTs that are big...I can only think of 1 (starting) NT thats not big...and thats only because you mentioned Ratliff (but what has Dallas done lately anyways, hahah).
Again, by that logic, DE's would all need to weigh 330 lbs because OT's are averaging about 320 now.
Anyway, the fact remains...Casey Hampton ain't getting any younger, and we have neglected to draft his replacement two years in a row now. I think Casey fit the bill, and we took a flier...time will tell.
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** Mayock projects defensive tackle Jurrell Casey as a mid-second-round selection. Casey is strictly a one-gap “3-technique,” meaning he fits only in 4-3 fronts. “He reminds me a little bit of Mike Patterson,” Mayock said, echoing Pete Carroll’s long-held sentiment. “I think he’s a starting defensive tackle in the NFL.”
http://usc.ocregister.com/tag/mike-mayock/
I think if Pete Carroll and Mike Mayock believe Casey is a 3 technique in the NFL...they probably have good reasons why. I was still pimping Myron Pryor from a couple drafts ago and he only goes 310 lbs, but is a thick kid that can play a 2 gap technique. Been hoping for a young guy to at least backup Hampton, but it doesnt look like any time soon that one is coming.
I'm SHOCKED that you disagree with me...
He has played NT before:
http://espn.go.com/blog/los-angeles/...to-nose-tackle
PFW has him as a NT:
http://www.profootballweekly.com/201...ckle-prospects
Here's a local paper looking at Casey:
http://www.altoonamirror.com/page/co...e.html?nav=751
Titans DC HIMSELF considers him both a DT and NT:
http://www.titansradio.com/Article.a...301&spid=27572
"Titans defensive coordinator Jerry Gray said Casey gave him the flexibility to move him around the line, from a typical 3-technique to nose tackle depending on the situation. That quality was something that also sold Gray on second round pick Akeem Ayers."
I know you're another guy who is never wrong, but when the DC of the team that drafted him states that they'll play him at NT, well....sorry, kiddo...
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In a 4-3 defense the "NT" occupies the Center/Guard gap opposite of the TE....while the DT occupies the Tackle/Guard gap on the side that the TE lines up on.
Generally the 4-3 "NT" is a smaller than a 3-4 NT due to the demands of the scheme, in which the 4-3 NT should be able to slash and to stack and shed...whereas the 3-4 NT is used primarily to take up blockers. That being said, both 3-4 and 4-3 schemes are much to complicated to ever say that the roles dont sometimes change....and virtually every team employs some sort of 50-read defense...in which they use a NT.
Its sometimes hard to predict a 3-technique prospect as a potential 0-technique...sure, he might play the NT in the 4-3, but that does NOT mean that he can be that big-bodied player you need to take up blockers EVERY PLAY...nor does it mean its the best place to maximize his ability.
.
"I believe the game is designed to reward the ones who hit the hardest. If you can't take it, you shouldn't play"
-- Jack Lambert --
LLT, I think that Casey played some 0 in some odd packages at USC, but I believe that what Mayock and Jurell Casey's former coach (Pete Carrol) were probably thinking is that he is more of a 1 gap player on the D-line and that would make him best suited to be a 3 technique in the NFL.
No surprise here that I merely post the quote of a couple decent talent evaluators and even agree that a 310lb guy can play NT...and some board members get their sweater vests and tattoo's in a bunch.
Very well said LLT. This is kind of what I've been trying to see...about him not really being a 3-4 NT. I'm not one to usually get too technical and all that (like you did explaining it)...but maybe this will help validate my point. I was never doubting he could play NT...just that I do not see him as a 3-4 NT. In reality I guess I should have got a little more detailed as you did explaining that there can be a NT in a 4-3...but its different than a 3-4 NT...as you've explained.
It is important to note that the Titans plan to employ BOTH the 3-4 and the 4-3, ala the Patriots, and have said so many times. I don't believe Vince Wolfork comes off the field when the Pats switch to a 4-3, in fact, I think he played DE (that's not a typo, DE not DT).
Again, we can split hairs all day on this one, but the fact is, the kid is 21 years old, and could easily add 20 lbs to his frame if need be without a great decrease in his skills. We don't typically select players with the expectation that they will be starting in year one, anyway, and nowhere does anything stated above address the glaring fact that, love the kid or hate the kid as a 3-4 NT in the Steelers system, we have an aging Casey Hampton with absolutely no heir apparent anywhere in sight.
I would rather draft a project that only half the people agree on as fitting the bill than draft no one and just leave the slot vacant. I also don't have sweater vests or tattoos.
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Actually, I'm pretty sure Wilfork was only playing DE in the 3-4 last year. They had all sorts of injuries at DE and wilfork could play it. Pryor's more of an NT and younger so they let him have Wilfork's spot those times
I believe Casey could play the nose if needed, maybe not as successful as hampton and others, but could have worked himself into a rotation
I'm happy with the CB we got instead anyway
"We're a team. There's no offense. There's no defense. There's no special teams. We're one. We're a band of brothers." – Ben Roethlisberger
Nobody is doubting Hampton getting up there in age...but he still has 2 years left and hasnt slowed down one bit. In fact he was in there a lot of times last year where he normally wouldnt be (3rd downs, etc). Its not a big deal that they didnt select someone this year...while there was only a small handful of guys who would have been good fits and some went undrafted and they may be brought in once they are able to do so. I am not worried one bit about Hampton and not having his replacement right now...this isnt Aaron Smith we're talking about here whos had a terrible last few years here. The Steelers will be fine and they will get his replacement at a date/time they see fit...they know what they're doing...trust in them.
Whominawhat? Aaron Smith has had a terrible couple years?
Aaron Smith has been injured, but when he's on the field, our defense is noticeably better. Anyway, we are one Casey Hampton injury away from having zero starting NT's on our roster. The position needs addressed.
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Thats what I'm talking about...Smith has had a terrible few years because he's been injured so much and missed so much time...not talking about his playing ability when he's healthy. But as far as one injury away from no starting NT...that can be said with any position (that doesnt have a 1st rounder/future starter behind them)...Ben goes down...Lefty/Batch arent starters . Troy goes down...and its all backups behind him...Mendy has Redman and Dwyer...etc. Thats how most NFL teams work...you cant have every position having a starter or starter in waiting behind the current starter.
(sigh)
I give up.
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You make a good point...most teams DO now employe features of both 4-3 and 3-4.
I wouldnt worry too much at this time about the heir apparant....I still have hopes that we grab Anthony Gray as an UDFA.
"I believe the game is designed to reward the ones who hit the hardest. If you can't take it, you shouldn't play"
-- Jack Lambert --
What do you guys think of S Joe Lefeged??? He's an athletic S
Oh, by the way, I like all 3 of our first picks (since this is the area around where we'd have had to pick or make moves to select Casey) too. I just am left scratching my head as to how we keep skipping over NT. Perhaps there is some UDFA out there that will fill the bill. Even though it's probably the LEAST glamorous position in the 3-4, it's arguable the most important if you buy into the whole "It all starts up front" idea...
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Yeah, I was hoping we take a chance on Jerrell Powe at NT as he was around later. Obviously some work ethic issue beyond what the Steelers wanted to work with. The other way to look at it is....the teams that drafted a NT will be cutting a guy loose that might at least be an upgrade over Hoke. I love the Heyward pick, but am frightened by Gilbert. Look for NT in next years draft hopefully.
I'm willing to give Gilbert the benefit of the doubt: He played in a lot of games against top-notch competition, and he's very versatile. If he's coached up he could be a very nice addition to the OL.
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