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Thread: Philip Rivers vs Ben Roethlisberger

  1. #61
    Original Member Array title="steelerdude15 has a brilliant future"> steelerdude15's Avatar

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    Re: Philip Rivers vs Ben Roethlisberger

    Put Philip Rivers or any "elite" QB behind our line and let's see if they can compete like Ben has and can. I hate how people really only compare stats anymore. I wish he would have one season where he'd put up over 4,500 yards and a million touchdowns to shut people up.... people would still find something to complain about.

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    Re: Philip Rivers vs Ben Roethlisberger

    In his three playoffs LOSSES, Roethlisberger led the Steelers to an average of 27 points per game.

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    Re: Philip Rivers vs Ben Roethlisberger







    CANCER - YOU PICKED THE WRONG BITCH!!!

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    Re: Philip Rivers vs Ben Roethlisberger

    Quote Originally Posted by steelerdude15 View Post
    Put Philip Rivers or any "elite" QB behind our line and let's see if they can compete like Ben has and can. I hate how people really only compare stats anymore. I wish he would have one season where he'd put up over 4,500 yards and a million touchdowns to shut people up.... people would still find something to complain about.
    But everyone knows that if you put Rivers in Ben's place on the Steelers that he would have about 5 Super Bowls by now.

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    Re: Philip Rivers vs Ben Roethlisberger

    Until cry me a Rivers can win when it counts he is not even in the discussion as far as I'm concerned. Look at some of rivers playoff games bad picks at crucial moments of the game. Look I know Ben has had a few bad games in the post season but, you can't win all the time. The fact is when it counts you can't talk about Rivers in a good way and, atleast Ben has played well when it has matters.

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    Re: Philip Rivers vs Ben Roethlisberger

    Does anyone know the significance of these numbers: 3-4 and 10-3?

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    Re: Philip Rivers vs Ben Roethlisberger

    Quote Originally Posted by steeldevil View Post
    Does anyone know the significance of these numbers: 3-4 and 10-3?
    OOH! OOH! Mr. Cotter!!!



    Is it, Rivers playoffs wins/losses vs. Ben's playoffs wins/losses?

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    Re: Philip Rivers vs Ben Roethlisberger

    Quote Originally Posted by TheWarDen86 View Post
    OOH! OOH! Mr. Cotter!!!



    Is it, Rivers playoffs wins/losses vs. Ben's playoffs wins/losses?
    Damn straight, do you think little Phillip has trouble going to bed at night having nightmares about how inferior he is to Ben???

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    Re: Philip Rivers vs Ben Roethlisberger

    Quote Originally Posted by steelerdude15 View Post

    Here's another thing, stick any QB in the league today behind our line and see if they can actually do good. Peyton, Tom, etc, I really don't think anyone could handle that.
    Absolutely. Is there any quarterback in the NFL who would have performed better if given Ben's offensive lines?
    "With love, with patience, and with Faith
    ....She'll make her way" ~ Natalie Merchant

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    Re: Philip Rivers vs Ben Roethlisberger

    Quote Originally Posted by steeldevil View Post
    Does anyone know the significance of these numbers: 3-4 and 10-3?

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    Re: Philip Rivers vs Ben Roethlisberger

    Rivers: Just a good passer with no leadership skills who chokes in the clutch
    Ben: Not only a good passer but a playmaker, a guy who can break tackles and make plays with his legs. A winner, a champion, 2 Superbowls

    Does anyone on this board believe Phillys Rivers would have made this play


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    Re: Philip Rivers vs Ben Roethlisberger

    'Phins fans? What do they know about QBs? The last legit QB they had retired over a decade ago.

    And he, like Rivers couldn't get it done in big games. One Super Bowl Appearance in his second season and kept running into brick walls in the playoffs for the rest of his career. But then again, Marino was the only good player on a lot of mediocre Dolphin Teams in the 80's and 90's with no run games or any semblance of a half-decent Defense. Take Marino off those teams and they're bottom rung for years.

    Running game, defense, and a solid supporting cast is something Rivers has had access to in San Diego, and he still can't get it done.

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    Re: Philip Rivers vs Ben Roethlisberger

    If Rivers wants to win a SB he should get a video camera.
    All Defense!

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    Re: Philip Rivers vs Ben Roethlisberger

    Quote Originally Posted by st33lersguy View Post
    Rivers: Just a good passer with no leadership skills who chokes in the clutch
    Ben: Not only a good passer but a playmaker, a guy who can break tackles and make plays with his legs. A winner, a champion, 2 Superbowls

    Does anyone on this board believe Phillys Rivers would have made this play



    that play still gives me night sweats..........



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    Re: Philip Rivers vs Ben Roethlisberger


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    at ALLD

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    Re: Philip Rivers vs Ben Roethlisberger

    I think you have to agree Rivers is decisively a better QB, I'm not sure a legit argument exist for Ben. Before I get started showing clearly and decisively how Rivers is not only better, but by a good margin.

    Would someone like to start their first argument, that I will proceed to tear apart? Or should I just lay it all out now?

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    Re: Philip Rivers vs Ben Roethlisberger

    Welcome to SU. It's alway's a good idea to read a forum's COC when joining.

    http://www.steelersuniverse.com/foru...o-s-and-Dont-s

    Respectful debate is always welcome and encouraged.



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    Re: Philip Rivers vs Ben Roethlisberger

    This has to easily be Rivers and I think it honestly is in most all circles. I think those analyst are under the spell of championships make players and not teams.


    To win a championship, you need a team. It doesn't matter how SD ranks in the regular season. Or the talent. It's how they play in the playoffs. It's about matchups, coaching, health, getting calls, lucky bounces, momentum, depth.

    It's funny people say Rivers is great and elite in the regular season but not the playoffs. Yet they want to point to SD's talent or team regular season numbers as to why SD should win. Ignoring what they do or how they play in the playoffs.

    In 2 of Rivers 4 playoff losses, Kaeding missed 4 kicks. It took 3 kicks for Brady to win 3 rings.

    People say Rivers with a 10th ranked scoring defense is good enough? Rivers went 13-3 without a top 10 scoring defense. Meanwhile Ben is 0-2 in playoff berths without a top 3 defense in points. Only QB to ever make the playoffs with a top 3 scoring defense, every single year.

    I think the better question is how many rings would Rivers have in PIT and NYG and if Ben or Eli would even make the playoffs in SD.

    You talk about division, but Rivers is 4-0 vs the NFCE.

    Rivers is 10-5 vs NFCE and AFCN.

    Ben is 12-8 vs NFCE and AFCW.

    Eli is 8-7 vs AFCN and AFCW.

    So there goes that argument..

    Rivers also has the best numbers in the NFL vs top 10 defenses in PPG.

    He has a 99.08 QB rating. Eli 71 and Ben 82. - I have a link for this, but it's on a different message board so I am not sure that is allowed.

    So it comes down to play. Rivers is clearly better at everything over Eli and Ben. Accuracy, vertical pass, pocket presence, reading defenses, explosive plays, consistency, efficiency in QB rating, TD%, INT%. Better pre snap at audibles, adjustments, hot routes.

    Ben is better at broken plays, scrambling and breaking tackles.

    Eli is not better at anything.

    Rivers has led FIVE top 5 scoring offenses, something Ben has never done. You know a QB's job, leading a offense to score points.

    Eli has done it 2 times.

    So Rivers is superior by a huge margin at his job. Scoring points, leading the offense, controlling TOP, converting 3rd downs and getting 1st downs and control field position with yardage, stretching the field, scoring and limiting turnovers. Isn't that what you want from your QB?

    You say he had the best defense, but he had an even better offense. So how did he fail if he led his direct unit to a top 2 unit in the league?

    QB's job is not momentum, matchups, defensive stops, special team plays, coaching, health, depth, controlling lucks and beneficial ref calls, etc.

    It's to lead the offense and Rivers is as good as anyone who has ever played at that. Also leadership, it's not close. Ben and Eli have had team mates and former team mates question their leadership, plus suspensions for one of them and off field issues. Scared frail demeanor. verse a guy who never had any team mate question him. Took over leadership from Brees and LT.

    Also while Ben and Eli had great SB game winning drives, lets not ignore the plays that happened before those.

    I honestly can't see how any thinks this is close. Rivers is fighting for the #1 spot. Not with two bottom half top 10 guys.

    I just want a legit argument against Rivers. Superbowls are seasonal team achievements, not assessments of skill and player impact and value.

    Because prior to Ben, Pit had alot of playoff berths and AFCC game berths with below avg QB's like O'donnell and Stewart. Meanwhile SD had 1 playoff berth and no wins the previous 12 years to Rivers.

    Also lets not forget Tomlin vs Norv and Cowher vs Marty. Oh as for that play vs Indy that Ben made the tackle on.

    This is Rivers in a preseason game to boot.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0ZrS-7ZXTM

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    Re: Philip Rivers vs Ben Roethlisberger

    Stats smats. I watch the games, Rivers is without question elite, but different circumstances make for different players, and you can only judge a player by how well they do what their asked, and if they help their team win moreso than a comparable player would in the same set of circumstances. Therefore this is what i know; Ben wins, he helps his team win games that matter.

    So in the end Rivers will almost always post better stats, because that's what he's asked to do, and that's what he wants to do. Ben will almost always win more games, particuarly games that matter, because that's what he's asked to do, and that's what he wants to do, he can put ego aside. So keep your pretty stats and Pro Bowls, and we'll keep winning games that matter and we'll all be happy!
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

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    Re: Philip Rivers vs Ben Roethlisberger

    This is Rivers in a preseason game to boot.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0ZrS-7ZXTM


    This is Ben in a Superbowl.
    http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-h...ger-highlights



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    Re: Philip Rivers vs Ben Roethlisberger

    Quote Originally Posted by zulater View Post
    Stats smats. I watch the games, Rivers is without question elite, but different circumstances make for different players, and you can only judge a player by how well they do what their asked, and if they help their team win moreso than a comparable player would in the same set of circumstances. Therefore this is what i know; Ben wins, he helps his team win games that matter.

    So in the end Rivers will almost always post better stats, because that's what he's asked to do, and that's what he wants to do. Ben will almost always win more games, particuarly games that matter, because that's what he's asked to do, and that's what he wants to do, he can put ego aside. So keep your pretty stats and Pro Bowls, and we'll keep winning games that matter and we'll all be happy!
    What circumstances??

    Like beating the Jets in 04 while playing horrible?

    Or like vs Cincy having Palmer out the first snap? Then dueling with Kitna?

    Playing horrible vs Seattle and still winning??

    How about a punt return for a TD vs SD and Willie Parker looking like Walter Payton in that game and SD unable to stop him. Not to mention SD had the ball for 13 seconds the entire 3rd qtr.

    How about vs the Ravens the next week, when Troy has a pick 6, in a what 4 point game with Balt driving for the win?

    How about the SB where Harrison has a 100 yd int on a 14 point swing before half time?? If not for that play, Ben's great game winning drive, which it was. Arguably best SB winning drive ever, would of never taken place.

    How about this year vs the Ravens? Ben and the offense struggle all first half, not to mention a dropped int deep in Pit's side of the field. Pit's defense then proceeds to have 3 or 4 turnovers forced in the 2nd half within Balt's 20 yd line on all the turnovers.

    How about his generally bad game vs NYJ. Yes he had a good end of game conversion to put the game away. But outside of that did not play well. Then proceeded to throw 2 ints in the SB, including a pick 6 and failed in a clutch moment on 4th down, last possession down by 6.

    Lets not act like Ben's team doesn't play as good in the playoffs as they do in the regular season if not better. While SD's team, tends to find ways to lose games they should decisively win.

    How do you win games?? Score points and stop teams from scoring right?? Move the ball to score, correct? Are these not stats?? Are stats not essential in winning? So you rather have a less productive, less consistent, less efficient QB, because he has had more success under better and more favorable circumstances??

    It's like saying you rather ride shotgun in a Chevy pickup with a good driver, instead of a Ferrari with a questionable drive. Cars represent the players, drivers represent the circumstances in this Analogy.

    I have Ben as #6 QB in the NFL, so I'm not hating. But put on the footage of any QB in the NFL. Rivers plays the QB position as well if not better than any in the game.

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    Re: Philip Rivers vs Ben Roethlisberger

    Quote Originally Posted by Footballanalyst View Post
    This has to easily be Rivers and I think it honestly is in most all circles. I think those analyst are under the spell of championships make players and not teams.


    To win a championship, you need a team. It doesn't matter how SD ranks in the regular season. Or the talent. It's how they play in the playoffs. It's about matchups, coaching, health, getting calls, lucky bounces, momentum, depth.

    It's funny people say Rivers is great and elite in the regular season but not the playoffs. Yet they want to point to SD's talent or team regular season numbers as to why SD should win. Ignoring what they do or how they play in the playoffs.

    In 2 of Rivers 4 playoff losses, Kaeding missed 4 kicks. It took 3 kicks for Brady to win 3 rings.

    People say Rivers with a 10th ranked scoring defense is good enough? Rivers went 13-3 without a top 10 scoring defense. Meanwhile Ben is 0-2 in playoff berths without a top 3 defense in points. Only QB to ever make the playoffs with a top 3 scoring defense, every single year.

    I think the better question is how many rings would Rivers have in PIT and NYG and if Ben or Eli would even make the playoffs in SD.

    You talk about division, but Rivers is 4-0 vs the NFCE.

    Rivers is 10-5 vs NFCE and AFCN.

    Ben is 12-8 vs NFCE and AFCW.

    Eli is 8-7 vs AFCN and AFCW.

    So there goes that argument..

    Rivers also has the best numbers in the NFL vs top 10 defenses in PPG.

    He has a 99.08 QB rating. Eli 71 and Ben 82. - I have a link for this, but it's on a different message board so I am not sure that is allowed.

    So it comes down to play. Rivers is clearly better at everything over Eli and Ben. Accuracy, vertical pass, pocket presence, reading defenses, explosive plays, consistency, efficiency in QB rating, TD%, INT%. Better pre snap at audibles, adjustments, hot routes.

    Ben is better at broken plays, scrambling and breaking tackles.

    Eli is not better at anything.

    Rivers has led FIVE top 5 scoring offenses, something Ben has never done. You know a QB's job, leading a offense to score points.

    Eli has done it 2 times.

    So Rivers is superior by a huge margin at his job. Scoring points, leading the offense, controlling TOP, converting 3rd downs and getting 1st downs and control field position with yardage, stretching the field, scoring and limiting turnovers. Isn't that what you want from your QB?

    You say he had the best defense, but he had an even better offense. So how did he fail if he led his direct unit to a top 2 unit in the league?

    QB's job is not momentum, matchups, defensive stops, special team plays, coaching, health, depth, controlling lucks and beneficial ref calls, etc.

    It's to lead the offense and Rivers is as good as anyone who has ever played at that. Also leadership, it's not close. Ben and Eli have had team mates and former team mates question their leadership, plus suspensions for one of them and off field issues. Scared frail demeanor. verse a guy who never had any team mate question him. Took over leadership from Brees and LT.

    Also while Ben and Eli had great SB game winning drives, lets not ignore the plays that happened before those.

    I honestly can't see how any thinks this is close. Rivers is fighting for the #1 spot. Not with two bottom half top 10 guys.

    I just want a legit argument against Rivers. Superbowls are seasonal team achievements, not assessments of skill and player impact and value.

    Because prior to Ben, Pit had alot of playoff berths and AFCC game berths with below avg QB's like O'donnell and Stewart. Meanwhile SD had 1 playoff berth and no wins the previous 12 years to Rivers.

    Also lets not forget Tomlin vs Norv and Cowher vs Marty. Oh as for that play vs Indy that Ben made the tackle on.

    This is Rivers in a preseason game to boot.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0ZrS-7ZXTM
    I refuse to read that long of a post about a crybaby.

    Rivers sucks.

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    Re: Philip Rivers vs Ben Roethlisberger

    In 7 career playoff games, Rivers has a 3-4 win/loss record, has gone 134-229 (58.5%) for 1820 yards, 8 TD passes, 9 INTs, and a 79.2 QB rating.

    Those numbers are hardly elite. And before you start arguing "but, Ben's supporting cast!" San Diego sent TEN players to the Pro Bowl in 2006. They sent ELEVEN in 2007. They sent NINE in 2008. The only Pro Bowl in recent years where the Steelers sent more players to Hawaii was in 2009, when the Steelers sent three and the Chargers sent two. I'm sick of hearing "Ben has a better team around him," when San Diego has been stacked with talent since Rivers has been there. It's not like he's been stuck playing for the Lions the last eight years.

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    Re: Philip Rivers vs Ben Roethlisberger

    Quote Originally Posted by fansince'76 View Post
    In 7 career playoff games, Rivers has a 3-4 win/loss record, has gone 134-229 (58.5%) for 1820 yards, 8 TD passes, 9 INTs, and a 79.2 QB rating.

    Those numbers are hardly elite. And before you start arguing "but, Ben's supporting cast!" San Diego sent TEN players to the Pro Bowl in 2006. They sent ELEVEN in 2007. They sent NINE in 2008. The only Pro Bowl in recent years where the Steelers sent more players to Hawaii was in 2009, when the Steelers sent three and the Chargers sent two. I'm sick of hearing "Ben has a better team around him," when San Diego has been stacked with talent since Rivers has been there. It's not like he's been stuck playing for the Lions the last eight years.
    Not only that, Ben has beaten Rivers in the playoffs. You know, the games that matter the most.

    You can keep your stats and kiss his ass, Footballanalyst. Until Rivers actually does something other than fail in the postseason, I ain't all that impressed. All that talent around him, consistently one of the most talented in the league, and absolutely nothing to show for it.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again. Fantasy football has completely ruined fans these days. Numbers mean everything, and winning games means nothing.








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    Re: Philip Rivers vs Ben Roethlisberger

    Quote Originally Posted by fansince'76 View Post
    In 7 career playoff games, Rivers has a 3-4 win/loss record, has gone 134-229 (58.5%) for 1820 yards, 8 TD passes, 9 INTs, and a 79.2 QB rating.

    Those numbers are hardly elite. And before you start arguing "but, Ben's supporting cast!" San Diego sent TEN players to the Pro Bowl in 2006. They sent ELEVEN in 2007. They sent NINE in 2008. The only Pro Bowl in recent years where the Steelers sent more players to Hawaii was in 2009, when the Steelers sent three and the Chargers sent two. I'm sick of hearing "Ben has a better team around him," when San Diego has been stacked with talent since Rivers has been there. It's not like he's been stuck playing for the Lions the last eight years.
    And let's not forget that Rivers plays in the AFC West which means he plays in better weather and often against inferior teams. Ben's worst passer since 2007 against an AFC West foe was 96 and change that he put up against the Chargers in 08, other than that it's all 100+ with most being in the 120+ category.

    Just checking at profootballreference.com and the stats bear me out, Ben pretty much owns the AFC west from a passing perspective with a career qb rating of over 101 against the AFC West. Of course that number is slightly skewed because the Steelers played the AFC west in 2006, and Ben had a couple terrible games against Western teams that year in games that he was coming off a serious injury. Truth be told if Ben played 6 game a year against the AFC West his stats would look way better than they do now, not that there's anything wrong with them.

    Anyway stat boy, you can keep Rivers, we're quite happy with Ben.
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

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    Re: Philip Rivers vs Ben Roethlisberger

    Can someone just kill this silly thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

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    Re: Philip Rivers vs Ben Roethlisberger

    Quote Originally Posted by X-Terminator View Post
    Not only that, Ben has beaten Rivers in the playoffs. You know, the games that matter the most.

    You can keep your stats and kiss his ass, Footballanalyst. Until Rivers actually does something other than fail in the postseason, I ain't all that impressed. All that talent around him, consistently one of the most talented in the league, and absolutely nothing to show for it.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again. Fantasy football has completely ruined fans these days. Numbers mean everything, and winning games means nothing.
    Hey man you stole that thought from me....

    Its true though.

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    Re: Philip Rivers vs Ben Roethlisberger

    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
    Can someone just kill this silly thread?
    No way, its too much fun.

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    Re: Philip Rivers vs Ben Roethlisberger

    Quote Originally Posted by HometownGal View Post


    Wish Ben would have kneed the little prick in the cahoonans. Sorry - can't stomach Rivers.
    Rivers can't even take criticism properly without whining to his fans.
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