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Thread: On Wisconsin....

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    member since day 1 Array title="7SteelGal43 is a name known to all"> 7SteelGal43's Avatar

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    On Wisconsin....

    Walker wants the Legislature to pass a law that forces state workers to pay more for their pensions and health insurance coverage and takes away most collective bargaining rights. He argued that changes are necessary to offset cuts to state aid for local municipalities that he plans to announce in his budget address later this month. Walker said those cuts total more than $300 million.
    Walker wants to remove all collective bargaining rights except for salary for all of Wisconsin's roughly 175,000 public employees starting July 1. Police officers, firefighters and state troopers would be exempt. Any requests for a salary increase higher than the consumer price index would have to be approved by referendum, and public employee contracts would be limited to one year.
    http://www.wausaudailyherald.com/art...r-Scott-Walker



    Let me get this straight. These are 'public sector' unions, meaning it's not an evil greedy corporation they're rising up against, it's the government, ie: taxpayers. Taxpayers who pay taxes so these teachers will teach their children, which incidently they aren't currently doing. Even when they are, they're doing a f'in miserable job of it, but that's a whole other topic.

    It seems to me in a time when a lot of Americans are without salaries, much less benefits, these arseholes are strong arming not just the govt but every freakin tax payer. They are up in arms because Gov Walker wants them to pay 12% (the last figure I heard) of their own pension fund. Not 100%, not 50%, not even 25%. 12 freakin %. Cry me a river. Gov Walker wants to take away collective bargaining (all but salary). Cry me a second river. That just means they can't rape the taxpayers anymore.

    The way I see it, benefits such as health care, and pension are not a right. They are perks. Companies wanting to entice the best and brightest employees used these methods. Now we consider them an entitlement ? Really ?
    Stay classy, leftnutz

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    The voice of reason Array title="GoSlash27 has a reputation beyond repute"> GoSlash27's Avatar

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    Re: On Wisconson....

    If you've been following what happened in California, you pretty much have to side with Walker on this one.
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

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    Re: On Wisconson....

    Wisconsin can't pay for these expenditures, why shouldn't they cut back some union benefits and Collective Bargaining rights when it contributed to Wisconsin's budget deficit

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    Re: On Wisconson....

    Taking away Collective Bargaining would be a disaster. Of our fifty states, only five do not have Collective Bargaining and they rank at the bottom of our education system.

    I'm not saying there's a causation here; but there is obviously some correlation here. The worker should have a right to bargain with the local government as a group because it garners you a bit more leverage.

    Also, the protesters are willing to let the pay cuts and some of the others go, provided they keep Collective Bargaining. This governor gave a huge tax break and then realized his budget comes up short. Utter bullshit.

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    Re: On Wisconson....

    Here's the thing with the Collective Bar[B]gaining[B] IMO. The unions will agree to pay the 12% into their pension funds, and also the 5% into their health care as long as collective bargaining is stays. So next year, the crooked union bosses will ask for a 17% raise to cover what they agreed to pay into, if not they will strike and Wisconsin will be back to square one.

    I find it funny that not a single state that is not a right to work state is operating with a level budget. Plus, companies are flocking to right to work states, just look at Boeing Aircraft opening up a huge manufacturing facility in South Carolina, because the unions were putting them out of business in Washington state.
    "The mountains are calling and I must go!" -- John Muir

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    Re: On Wisconson....

    Quote Originally Posted by SCSTILLER View Post
    Here's the thing with the Collective Bar[B]gaining[B] IMO. The unions will agree to pay the 12% into their pension funds, and also the 5% into their health care as long as collective bargaining is stays. So next year, the crooked union bosses will ask for a 17% raise to cover what they agreed to pay into, if not they will strike and Wisconsin will be back to square one.

    I find it funny that not a single state that is not a right to work state is operating with a level budget. Plus, companies are flocking to right to work states, just look at Boeing Aircraft opening up a huge manufacturing facility in South Carolina, because the unions were putting them out of business in Washington state.
    The Union Bosses rape their members from one end, while the employer rapes 'em from the other.

    God Bless Capitalism.

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    Re: On Wisconson....

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc_Holiday View Post
    The Union Bosses rape their members from one end, while the employer rapes 'em from the other.

    God Bless Capitalism.
    Best system in the world, sure as hell beats socialism!
    "The mountains are calling and I must go!" -- John Muir

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    Re: On Wisconson....

    The reason there should be no public sector collective bargaining whatsoever:
    1) The government is the only monopoly in the world that sets whatever price it wants for it's services and forces it's customers to pay.
    2) When the public employees unions are at the bargaining table, the guy who actually has to pay for it isn't represented, so nobody involved has an incentive to save money.

    Either one of these two situations would be workable on it's own, but both in conjunction is a disaster. These people exercising their "right" to collective bargaining is a usurpation of democracy.
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

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    Re: On Wisconson....

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc_Holiday View Post
    The Union Bosses rape their members from one end, while the employer rapes 'em from the other.

    God Bless Capitalism.
    Guess you could side with the COWARDS and run off and hide.


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    Re: On Wisconsin....

    As someone who lives in one of these red ink states, Michigan, I am totally dismayed by the utter lack of professionalism by the Wisconsin State Dems...it's as if they lost and are now saying "OK, if I can't have it my way, I am taking my ball and going home". Utter nonsense....

    I am trying to sympathize with these folks, I really am. It just isn't happening. Negotiate your salary and benefits like the rest of us and get to f*cking work. Or, I tell you what, you don't like your benefits? I bet there is a line of unemployed people willing to step in and take your job for your.
    "Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy. Its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." - Winston Churchill

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    Re: On Wisconson....

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach1 View Post
    Guess you could side with the COWARDS and run off and hide.
    So who are the cowards, those fighting for their right or those trying to quash it?

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    Re: On Wisconson....

    Quote Originally Posted by SCSTILLER View Post
    Best system in the world, sure as hell beats socialism!
    Capitalism is not the best system in the world; we've just become used to it after 230 plus years. All economic systems have their flaws and their benefits. It all comes down to the kind of life you want your populous to have.

    I used to think socialism was bullshit until I actually visited a country that has the system in place, studied it and talked to people living there. Most people in this country have no clue what socialism is or how it works.

    For America it does work for some things and we already have socialist systems all ready running in this country and nobody complains about them - because they don't know any better.

    But I can say, after years of having an economic system that is strictly based on capitalism, any other system would fail.

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    Geek God Array title="X-Terminator has a reputation beyond repute"> X-Terminator's Avatar

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    Re: On Wisconsin....

    Socialism = government control over your life
    Socialism = punishment for success, kills incentive to achieve success
    Socialism = ridiculously high taxes

    That's enough for me to not want any part of it. Capitalism isn't perfect, but it's better than Socialism.








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    Re: On Wisconson....

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc_Holiday View Post
    So who are the cowards, those fighting for their right or those trying to quash it?

    Fighting for their right to what ? Give the taxpayers a good old fashioned without so much as a reach around ?
    Stay classy, leftnutz

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    Re: On Wisconson....

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc_Holiday View Post
    So who are the cowards, those fighting for their right or those trying to quash it?
    You know the COWARDS that are dodging their sworn post. The Cowards that are circle jerking it in another state.


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    Re: On Wisconson....

    Quote Originally Posted by 7SteelGal43 View Post
    Fighting for their right to what ? Give the taxpayers a good old fashioned without so much as a reach around ?
    Of course. It's not really their money, so why should they care? And what, pray tell, is their answer to the problem? Well, let's tax those damn millionaires, billionaires and corporations! Then the government can give them everything they think they deserve!

    http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pitt.../s_724556.html

    You know, I'd been thinking of starting my own business for a few years now. Why in the hell should I even bother, when you have people like this who would want to punish me through the tax code if I would end up with a successful business, and basically end up working for the state? Why should ANYONE bother? And then they have the nerve to ask why companies outsource jobs to India and China, or move to other states that are more business-friendly. Think about it, you greedy bastards.

    Sorry to sound harsh, but reading that story just pissed me off with the attitude of some of these union workers. You aren't owed ONE CENT of my money!








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    Re: On Wisconson....

    Quote Originally Posted by X-Terminator View Post
    Of course. It's not really their money, so why should they care? And what, pray tell, is their answer to the problem? Well, let's tax those damn millionaires, billionaires and corporations! Then the government can give them everything they think they deserve!

    http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pitt.../s_724556.html

    You know, I'd been thinking of starting my own business for a few years now. Why in the hell should I even bother, when you have people like this who would want to punish me through the tax code if I would end up with a successful business, and basically end up working for the state? Why should ANYONE bother? And then they have the nerve to ask why companies outsource jobs to India and China, or move to other states that are more business-friendly. Think about it, you greedy bastards.

    Sorry to sound harsh, but reading that story just pissed me off with the attitude of some of these union workers. You aren't owed ONE CENT of my money!
    If I were you I'd wait to start any business. Wait to see how you'll be punished for being a small business. And of course wait to see how much (I mean Free) obaaamacare is going to rape you. As a business owner myself, It's not getting any easier with the tax increases. With obaaamas smokescreens of tax cuts where they recoup it in other areas that were raised.


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    Re: On Wisconsin....

    Ronald Reagan believed Union Membership to being a right in this country
    http://joemygod.blogspot.com/2011/02...res-union.html

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    Re: On Wisconsin....

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc_Holiday View Post
    Ronald Reagan believed Union Membership to being a right in this country
    http://joemygod.blogspot.com/2011/02...res-union.html
    Did you seriously think any of us were gonna fall for that one?
    #1) "This country" ain't Poland.
    #2) The Gdansk agreement doesn't apply to us.
    #3) The Gdansk agreement declared that "right", not Reagan.
    #4) Private sector unions <> government employee unions
    #5) Nobody is attacking their right to be in a union, nor to collectively bargain (even though they should).

    This entire argument is ridiculous.
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

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    Re: On Wisconsin....

    Liberals love to hate Tea Party rallies.
    Exactly HOW are the pro-union protests in Wisconsin ANY different than the WORST of the Tea Party rallies?
    People have signs there complaining that Fox news will lie about this yet the rest of the mainstream media is whitewashing this whereas they would be
    the FIRST to be offended were it a Tea Party rally.

    Once again, something is only wrong when the other side does it.
    Once again Liberalism is synonymous with hypocrisy.









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    Re: On Wisconsin....

    Except for that second picture, there is a surprising lack of Hitler references.

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    Re: On Wisconson....

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc_Holiday View Post
    So who are the cowards, those fighting for their right or those trying to quash it?
    Those who refuse to acknowledge the electoral process. The Dems are no longer in power because the states voters rejected their philosophy. Now, to stop majority rule, they are refusing do do their jobs. I might be sympathetic if the Republicans were going against the will of the people of Wisconsin...but this is squarly a battle between public opinion and special interest.

    By a margin of 74 percent to 18 percent, likely voters in Wisconsin back the idea of making state employees pay more for their health insurance. By a margin of 79 percent to 16 percent, they favor asking state workers to contribute more toward their pensions. And, by a margin of 66 percent to 30 percent they support the idea that state workers’ pay increase should be tied to the rate of inflation unless voters approve a higher raise by public referendum.
    http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/...r-budget-fight
    Voters as a whole agree with the "principle" of collective bargaining....but the average union worker is not being represented anymore as union leaders stray more to the left while the American population continually refuses to be polarized.

    As a package..voters in Wisconsin say that if the Govenor can show that he is willing to get rid of bad teachers and give the school more flexibility outside of bureaucratic red tape (less government)...then the voters back the Governors initiatives 58% to 38%
    "I believe the game is designed to reward the ones who hit the hardest. If you can't take it, you shouldn't play"

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    member since day 1 Array title="7SteelGal43 is a name known to all"> 7SteelGal43's Avatar

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    Re: On Wisconsin....

    This entire argument is ridiculous.

    That kinda goes without saying, Slash, seein as how it's from the left.



    jus' sayin
    Stay classy, leftnutz

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    Re: On Wisconson....

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach1 View Post
    If I were you I'd wait to start any business. Wait to see how you'll be punished for being a small business. And of course wait to see how much (I mean Free) obaaamacare is going to rape you. As a business owner myself, It's not getting any easier with the tax increases. With obaaamas smokescreens of tax cuts where they recoup it in other areas that were raised.
    That's good advice. I have to think long and hard if I want to deal with all of the hassle. Small business is constantly under attack, and too many people have this mistaken impression that if you're earning a lot of money, that you're automatically "rich," thanks to the left and the media hacks for the left, and therefore must be taxed into oblivion. Not only is that grossly unfair, but it actually achieves the exact opposite of what they want - big corporations gaining more and more power and influence, because they have a lot more protections and options that small businesses don't have. As a small business owner, I'm sure you don't consider yourself "rich" by any means.








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    Re: On Wisconson....

    Quote Originally Posted by X-Terminator View Post
    That's good advice. I have to think long and hard if I want to deal with all of the hassle. Small business is constantly under attack, and too many people have this mistaken impression that if you're earning a lot of money, that you're automatically "rich," thanks to the left and the media hacks for the left, and therefore must be taxed into oblivion. Not only is that grossly unfair, but it actually achieves the exact opposite of what they want - big corporations gaining more and more power and influence, because they have a lot more protections and options that small businesses don't have. As a small business owner, I'm sure you don't consider yourself "rich" by any means.


    Not only no, but hell no. After all is said and done at the end of the year I have employees that make more than I do. But yet I'm the evil small "rich" businessman.


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    Re: On Wisconsin....

    Quote Originally Posted by 7SteelGal43 View Post
    That kinda goes without saying, Slash, seein as how it's from the left.



    jus' sayin
    That man leans so far left he needs a kick-stand to keep from falling over. I am curious to find out which country he visited where socialism "worked". 5 will get you 10 it required a bailout last year.
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

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    Re: On Wisconson....

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc_Holiday View Post
    So who are the cowards, those fighting for their right or those trying to quash it?

    Seriously Doc, use your brain and stop being a partisan hack. What do you think would have happened if all the R's left DC in 2008 after getting their asses handed to them? Would you be saying the same thing? The hypocrisy that is being exhibited by the main stream media and the left in general is mind numbing.


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    Re: On Wisconsin....

    Quote Originally Posted by GoSlash27 View Post
    That man leans so far left he needs a kick-stand to keep from falling over. I am curious to find out which country he visited where socialism "worked". 5 will get you 10 it required a bailout last year.
    So true. And the funny thing is, America is on the verge of needing a bailout, or at the very least heading that way. Funny that it happened as we adopted more and more socialist policies in our country ? Coincidence ? No freakin' way.
    Stay classy, leftnutz

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    Re: On Wisconsin....

    Quote Originally Posted by venom View Post
    wrong when the other side does it.





    I don't know which sign I like better, this one or the one that said "if you like the tea party, you'll love the lemon party"



    stay classy leftnutz
    Stay classy, leftnutz

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    Re: On Wisconsin....

    Quote Originally Posted by 7SteelGal43 View Post
    I don't know which sign I like better, this one or the one that said "if you like the tea party, you'll love the lemon party"
    So, the Tea Party isn't a bunch of old dudes blowing each other?

    That's news to me

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