What acts do you speak of X?Originally Posted by X-Terminator
What acts do you speak of X?
Here's one, presented by Mel Brooks:
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You're talking about mostly ancient history, save the lone nut or wacko cult, I'm talking about daily murders taking place, every flipping day! I don't care what happned 200 years ago, i already told you I'm not Christian I've never bought into orginal sin, my fathers sins are not my own.
Radical Islamics commit murder on a daily basis. Don't believe me, tommorow I'll find you at least 5 instances where innocents were killed at the hands of radical Islam. And I'll do it the day after that and the next day and so on and so forth. I challenge you to do the same with christians.
"A man's got to know his limitations."
http://atheism.about.com/b/2007/05/1...ck-critics.htmReasonable Religion? When Christians Attack Critics
Sunday May 13, 2007
An ideology cannot be considered "reasonable" by any stretch of the imagination if its adherents feel a need to threaten or engage in physical violence against critics. That, however, is what we have with some Christians in America. Mikey Weinstein isn't so much a critic of Christianity's theology, but rather a critic of the manner in which so many Christians are abusing their positions in the government and military to promote Christianity in the Air Force academy. For this, he has received death threats and supporters have had a church burned down.
Imagine how fearful these Christians must be if they think it is appropriate and/or necessary to burn down others' churches, to damage a synagogue, or to send death threats to a politically conservative Jew in order to silence critics. Yes, Weinstein is politically conservative — he's no godless liberal and you don't need to be either godless or liberal in order to support the separation of church and state. Christians who benefit from the privilege of state support and endorsement, though, cannot accept separation because that would place them on the same level as all other (and "false") religions.
I did not compare a death number count, though I'm sure you're right. I just don't compare deaths like that. I also did not compare radical Christians to radical Islamists. You assumed that yourself. I disagree with and abhor both. I was merely pointing out to you that radical Christians do still operate today and do still commit atrocities in the name of God today (and not just lone radicals either). I'm sorry you read too much into it.
good thing the abortion clinic bombing fad died out.
Sarah Palin Refuses To Answer Whether Or Not Abortion Clinic Bombers Are Terrorists
http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/1023
How many perished in that "firestorm"?
The violence has manifested itself in at least 13,000 terrorist attacks since 9/11. islam is satanic.and like ive said before to the exact same arguments, perhaps your priorities arent straight. you guys see worldwide deaths by the hands of terrorists in the name of islam as a grave danger (which it most certainly is). i happen to see teh religion of drugs and the cartels who push them as a much more imminent threat.
the easiest door for a terrorist to walk through is probably through mexico, under the escort of these cartels. the drug war murders in juarez alone dwarfs the worldwide killings by terrorists since 9/11 (especially when looking at a per capita basis).
the difference is thousands of murders and terrorism happens within 2 miles of our boarder, and are ignored because we want the drugs in our country, much more than a different religion.
if we are a Christian nation, yet afraid of being converted to islam, we have already lost and not true Christians. the power of Christ is inpenetrable.
so the point is, find me a day in the past years where multiple murders arent occuring in the name of money, greed, drugs, lust, power, etc and i will show you where having such a narrow focus on islam is a case of not seeing the forest through the trees.
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even if it were only 1 thats 1 too many, considering the crime is based on nothing more than someone trying to force a religious moral agenda ,by use of violence.... just as palin refused to call it what it actually was, terrorism , i'm sure there was more than a few christians silently applauding it.
how are things in ol juarez? lets look at todays headlines-
http://www.elpasotimes.com/news/ci_15800542Alleged Juárez trafficker extradited to U.S.; 51 die in Juárez
By Daniel Borunda \ El Paso Times
Posted: 08/17/2010 12:00:00 AM MDT
MEXICO IN FOCUS
Analysis on news out of Mexico
- Fighting the border drug war
- Juárez gunmen kill two police officers
- Mayor of Mexican city kidnapped by armed gang
- 51 people killed in Juárez over weekend
- NPR: Mexico's drug war hits historic border cantinas
- Bulletin warned of drug violence in El Paso
- BBC: Mexico TV station Televisa hit by blasts
- Report: Chihuahua has highest number of Mexico drug war murders
- Police dispatch: Cartel members may seek rivals in El Paso
- Coronado grad, nephew of ex-PAN leader, is slain in Juárez parking lot
- Narco-blogger beats Mexico drug war news blackout
- Nephew of former PAN leader Manuel Espino Barrientos killed in Juárez
- Drug war: Woman led Sinaloa cells, officials say
- Washington Post: Mexico hopes $270 million in social spending will help end Juarez drug violence
- Mexican president critical of low conviction rate
- Video: Border violence keeps Juarez paramedics busy
- U.S. steps up fingerprinting program along border
- Mexico to investigate federal officers
- Gov. Perry delivers letter to President Obama on border security
- Mexican journalists seek more protection
- Dismembered body of federal agent found
- Fewer Mexican students register at Texas colleges
- Dismembered body of federal agent found in Juárez
- Heads of three men found in Palomas, Mexico
EL PASO -- A suspected Juárez drug trafficker appeared in U.S. District Court in El Paso on Monday after being extradited from Mexico even while rampant bloodshed continued in Juárez.
Felipe Dominguez Vargas is purported to be a "cell head" running a drug-trafficking ring that smuggled heroin, cocaine and marijuana into El Paso County to be distributed throughout the United States, a DEA spokeswoman said. It was unclear what cartel Dominguez worked for.
Dominguez, a Mexican citizen, was arrested in Juárez by Mexican authorities in November.
On Aug. 10, Mexico's attorney general's office, or PGR, extradited Dominguez and handed him over to the U.S. Marshals Service and the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration at the PGR airplane hangar at the Mexico City airport, officials said.
The DEA said Dominguez made his initial appearance in federal court Monday morning in Downtown El Paso. He waived a detention hearing. He faces six counts of conspiracy to distribute heroin, cocaine and marijuana. If convicted, he could face up to life in prison.
In Juárez, street shootings and other violence continued Monday after a bloody weekend. There had been nine homicides as of Monday evening.
Fifty-one people were slain between Friday and Sunday, a police spokesman said. There were 24 homicides on Sunday, making it one of the deadliest days of the year.
this shit is every day people.
right on our doorstep. yet 13,000 deaths by the hands of different psycopaths in the past 10 years is supposed to concern me more.
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And I'm telling you that it hasn't been hundreds of years. I'm not going to debate with the numbers of people killed...because we're talking about people killed by radicals of their faiths (who are doing it to further their own political agendas). But if you want a good example a crazy nutjob who used Christianity as a propaganda tool to further his own political agenda, look no further than Hitler.
http://atheism.about.com/od/adolfhit...itlerJesus.htmn a speech from April 12, 1922 and published in his book My New Order, Adolf Hitler explains his perspective on Jesus Christ:
My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter.
In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was his fight against the Jewish poison. Today, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed his blood upon the Cross.
http://atheism.about.com/od/adolfhit...iChristian.htm
http://atheism.about.com/od/adolfhit...rChristian.htm
http://atheism.about.com/od/adolfhit...ansGermany.htm
http://atheism.about.com/od/adolfhit...erFaithGod.htm
Or in Uganda if you want something more recent...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7802804.stm
http://allafrica.com/stories/200812310002.html
Or in India...
http://www.mapsofindia.com/tripura/g...ion-front.htmlThe main aim behind the establishment of this political party is to give a separate identity to a Christian fundamentalist Tripura state outside the nation of India. This political entity was later banned as it fell under the Unlawful Activies Prevention Act. This act was passed in the year 1967.
http://www.start.umd.edu/start/data/...le.asp?id=3644National Liberation Front of Tripura (NLFT) is an active terrorist organization. However, NLFT is constantly in flux and has given rise to several splinter groups. In 2001, NLFT split into two main factions, one led by Nayanbasi Jamatiya and the other by Biswamohan Debbarma. According to confisicated records of NLFT, the split was caused by internal bickering among senior leaders, misappropriation of funds by certain senior NLFT members, and disagreement over the forcible conversion of NLFT members to Chrisitainty. According to at least one report, approximately 90 percent of senior NLFT members are Christians. Despite the internal fighting and regardless of future splintering of NLFT, the group remains an active terrorist threat in the Tripura state of India.
This was all discussed way, way earlier in the thread though...but I'll happily engage in discussion with anyone EXCEPT Vincent...we've already danced that dance.
Last edited by SteelCityMom; 08-18-2010 at 10:36 AM. Reason: Fixing links
i like this one-
Dismembered body of federal agent found in Juárez
no terrorism there though.
seriously people, who the fuck cares under what name these atrocities are committed under?
BTW- click a link, any link, in my previous post. they all work. this is the headlines i read everyday in our local "big city" paper. you think i give a rats ass about 2 people killed by a pipe bomb im indonesia, rawanda, or yemen?that stuff is childs play.
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And here you're touching on a fact which has been completely overlooked in this discussion, That the 9/11 murderers were Muslim is secondary to their being Saudi and Kuwaiti, maybe even a distant second. Their voiced objections were not to Christianity or Judaism, but to United States troops being stationed in their countries.
In other words, this non-mosque which is not being built at Ground Zero is also completely unrelated to the motivations behind the 9/11 attacks which created Ground Zero.
Why does God hate amputees?
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Exactly. And I don't mean to give the impression that I think Christian radicals are worse than Islamist radicals or anything like that. They all piss me off. And I don't like basing my level of hatred on who's killed more people. There's a lot of crazy people out there killing for a lot of messed up reasons.i like this one-
Dismembered body of federal agent found in Juárez
no terrorism there though.
seriously people, who the fuck cares under what name these atrocities are committed under?
If I didn't have to leave for work right after I posted that, I would have answered then, but SCM already answered for me. Despite that, you still are NOT getting my point at all. I said that Christians have a LOT of blood on their hands. That is a FACT. Whether the incidents happened 200 years ago or 2 days ago does not matter to me when it comes to the point I am making. And knowing that FACT, Christians cannot put themselves on some sort of pedestal and claim that their (my) religion is superior to all others, which BTW is the very thing that many anti-Islamist folks criticize Muslims for doing. Not when they have a long history of bloodshed and brutality that continues to this very day. I'm not sure why this is so hard for you to grasp - I've been as clear as I possibly can.
http://notachristian.org/christianatrocities.html*Catholic extermination camps
Surpisingly few know that Nazi extermination camps in World War II
were by no means the only ones in Europe at the time. In the years
1942-1943 also in Croatia existed numerous extermination camps, run by
Catholic Ustasha under their dictator Ante Paveliç, a practising
Catholic and regular visitor to the then pope. There were even
concentration camps exclusively for children!
In these camps - the most notorious was Jasenovac, headed by a
Franciscan friar - orthodox-Christian serbians (and a substantial
number of Jews) were murdered. Like the Nazis the Catholic Ustasha
burned their victims in kilns, alive (the Nazis were decent enough to
have their victims gassed first). But most of the victims were simply
stabbed, slain or shot to death, the number of them being estimated
between 300,000 and 600,000, in a rather tiny country. Many of the
killers were Franciscan friars. The atrocities were appalling enough
to induce bystanders of the Nazi "Sicherheitsdient der SS", watching,
to complain about them to Hitler (who did not listen). The pope knew
about these events and did nothing to prevent them. [MV]
*Catholic terror in Vietnam
In 1954 Vietnamese freedom fighters - the Viet Minh - had finally
defeated the French colonial government in North Vietnam, which by
then had been supported by U.S. funds amounting to more than $2
billion. Although the victorious assured religious freedom to all
(most non-buddhist Vietnamese were Catholics), due to huge
anticommunist propaganda campaigns many Catholics fled to the South.
With the help of Catholic lobbies in Washington and Cardinal Spellman,
the Vatican's spokesman in U.S. politics, who later on would call the
U.S. forces in Vietnam "Soldiers of Christ", a scheme was concocted to
prevent democratic elections which could have brought the communist
Viet Minh to power in the South as well, and the fanatic Catholic Ngo
Dinh Diem was made president of South Vietnam. [MW16ff]
Diem saw to it that U.S. aid, food, technical and general assistance
was given to Catholics alone, Buddhist individuals and villages were
ignored or had to pay for the food aids which were given to Catholics
for free. The only religious denomination to be supported was Roman
Catholicism.
The Vietnamese McCarthyism turned even more vicious than its American
counterpart. By 1956 Diem promulgated a presidential order which read
"Individuals considered dangerous to the national defense and common
security may be confined by executive order, to a concentration camp."
Supposedly to fight communism, thousands of buddhist protesters and
monks were imprisoned in "detention camps." Out of protest dozens of
buddhist teachers - male and female - and monks poured gasoline over
themselves and burned themselves. (Note that Buddhists burned
themselves in comparison Christians tend to burn others). Meanwhile
some of the prison camps, which in the meantime were filled with
Protestant and even Catholic protesters as well, had turned into
no-nonsense death camps. It is estimated that during this period of
terror (1955-1960) at least 24,000 were wounded - mostly in street
riots - 80,000 people were executed, 275,000 had been detained or
tortured, and about 500,000 were sent to concentration or detention
camps. [MW76-89].
To support this kind of government in the next decade thousands of
American GI's lost their life.
*Christianity kills the cat
On July 1, 1976, Anneliese Michel, a 23-year-old student of a teachers
college in Germany, died she starved herself to death. For months she
had been haunted by demonic visions and apparitions, and for months
two Catholic priests - with explicit approval of the Catholic bishop
of Würzburg - additionally pestered and tormented the wretched girl
with their exorcist rituals. After her death in Klingenberg hospital -
her body was littered with wounds - her parents, both of them
fanatical Catholics, were sentenced to six months for not having
called for medical help. None of the priests was punished on the
contrary, Miss Michel's grave today is a place of pilgrimage and
worship for a number of similarly faithful Catholics (in the
seventeenth century Würzburg was notorious for it's extensive witch
burnings).
This case is only the tip of an iceberg of such evil superstition and
has become known only because of its lethal outcome. [SP80]
I hasten to point out that your president, Bush, said in plain English that his god (the Christian God) told him to smite Afghanistan and Iraq. He also referred to these as "Crusades", more vehemently and often after having the offensiveness of the word pointed out to him. The religious Right embraced this openly. There's a strong argument to be made that these are two religious wars we are fighting now. Many Iraqis and Afghans certainly view it as such.
So, did you still want to compare bloody hands?
Why does God hate amputees?
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A very good friend of the family lost her brother (I think in Chihuahua), shot in the back of the head eight or nine times. His crime, and that of the others shot with him: they were working a job for which they had failed to pay a "referral fee". I am very, very sorry for what you must be seeing every day, Tony.i like this one-
Dismembered body of federal agent found in Juárez
no terrorism there though.
seriously people, who the fuck cares under what name these atrocities are committed under?
BTW- click a link, any link, in my previous post. they all work. this is the headlines i read everyday in our local "big city" paper. you think i give a rats ass about 2 people killed by a pipe bomb im indonesia, rawanda, or yemen?
Why does God hate amputees?
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weren the religious 9-11 hijackers ordering pepperoni pizza from dominos, boozing it up, and visiting strip clubs, the short while they were here on their "holy mission?
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I partially agree with you, ric. It's not a mosque. And it's not being built at Ground Zero. But I disagree that it's not related to the 9/11 attacks.
The motivation behind the "cultural center" supposedly is to help bridge the gap between Islam and the western world.
But it appears that building the "cultural center" is only widening that gap. If those behind the center were to come out and say that they understand why people find it offensive and oppose it, and they decided to relocate it, that would go a long way toward building respect for Muslims and Islam.
But that's not the case. What they're saying is we don't give a damn if you're offended. We really don't care what you think. We're going to build it anyway. Oh, and by the way, you need to respect Islam, because it's a religion of peace.
But they won't consider scrapping the plans to build the center because their goal isn't to bridge the gap. Their goal is to plant their "flag" as close to Ground Zero as they can. Once this center is built, it will embolden Muslim extremists throughout the world. Hell, the fact that Americans are fighting over the issue is a victory for them.
It's also quite possible that "Christian nations" are relatively more peaceful nowadays for reasons having nothing to do with their historic Christianity, but rather with the fact that they tend to be the more secularized nations. This would make Vinny's arguments more than a tad ironic: the fact that we are finally shedding our Christianity makes Christian nations better than devout Islamic nations.If I didn't have to leave for work right after I posted that, I would have answered then, but SCM already answered for me. Despite that, you still are NOT getting my point at all. I said that Christians have a LOT of blood on their hands. That is a FACT. Whether the incidents happened 200 years ago or 2 days ago does not matter to me when it comes to the point I am making. And knowing that FACT, Christians cannot put themselves on some sort of pedestal and claim that their (my) religion is superior to all others, which BTW is the very thing that many anti-Islamist folks criticize Muslims for doing. Not when they have a long history of bloodshed and brutality that continues to this very day. I'm not sure why this is so hard for you to grasp - I've been as clear as I possibly can.
I think, however, that we are on somewhat of a pendulum, and that the fundamentalists are slowly taking over here. We'll see just how peace-loving Christian society is once we are officially a "Christian nation". I don't think it's too terribly far away.
Why does God hate amputees?
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no need to feel sorry for me. it really doesnt affect me other than i'd really like to go to the dentist down there for the kick ass savings, and am kinda scared; however, an employee of mine went down there for a funeral 2 weeks ago. her brother in law's brother was at a barbershop getting a haircut and got mowed down along with several other people. his son survived. i was a bit worried for her cause she visits frequently. all my other employees with family down there have pretty much cut off all their visits.
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i totally agree with this. its the symbolism that sickens me.
i have stated this plenty of times in this thread, yet have still been demonized, condemned, and singled out in this thread for nothing more than what it says on my voter registration card.
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Seperate things tony, sort of like cancer and heart disease. Both are killers and need to be addressed. I've got no use for illegal drugs, I understand the problems they pose and i think they are a more immediate and bigger concern than radical Islam is to this country today.
But me pointing out that radical Islamics are a bigger problem in this world currently than radical christains has nothing to do with your argument, apples to electical appliances so to speak.
"A man's got to know his limitations."
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You're being paranoid tony. No one dislikes you for your politics, we just disagree on certain things. No biggeee.i totally agree with this. its the symbolism that sickens me.
i have stated this plenty of times in this thread, yet have still been demonized, condemned, and singled out in this thread for nothing more than what it says on my voter registration card.
"A man's got to know his limitations."
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And talk about paranoid.
"A man's got to know his limitations."
Array title="zulater has a reputation beyond repute">
Personally i think they were mostly repressed homo's who were looking for an outlet to get out their frustration.
that's not to indicate that i think gay people are prone to violence, but I do think that religoiusly repressed people who think they have to go above and beyond to gain favor with their lord are capable of great violence as they are being torn asunder from within and without.
OK disclaimer now, the above post isn't chock full of actual facts per se, just my dime store head doctor assessment of certain facts i gathered about the hijackers. I do think that Islam fosters hostility towards woman ( in certain unbalanced individuals) they view woman as unclean. anyway you take any young man( hormones raging away at that age) and confuse him further sexually, give him a religous message, thorw in some politics, stir slowly, and you got yourself a bona fide ticking time bomb.
"A man's got to know his limitations."
http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/...wtc-mosque-op/
Pelosi calls for investigation of WTC mosque opposition
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, California Democrat, called for an investigation of those who are protesting the building of the Ground Zero Mosque on Tuesday. She told San Francisco's KCBS radio:
AUDIO
"There is no question there is a concerted effort to make this a political issue by some. And I join those who have called for looking into how is this opposition to the mosque being funded," she said. "How is this being ginned up that here we are talking about Treasure Island, something we've been working on for decades, something of great interest to our community as we go forward to an election about the future of our country and two of the first three questions are about a zoning issue in New York City." (h/t Kristinn)
Calls to investigate the funding for those proposing the $100 million "Cordoba House" have fallen on deaf ears, though, as New York's Mayor Mike Bloomberg has described such an investigation as "un-American."
Ms. Pelosi called the Ground Zero mosque an "urban development decision" for New Yorkers to work through. Her remarks happened on the heels of Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, Nevada Democrat, parting ways with President Barack Obama on the issue. Mr. Reid suggested the mosque should be built somewhere else.
We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress & the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution,
but overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution."
Abraham Lincoln
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Oh boy...where do I start.
Wrong. You can not seperate the terrorists from their own admitted REASONS for their actions.That the 9/11 murderers were Muslim is secondary to their being Saudi and Kuwaiti.
A fatwa (that's a Muslim religious opinion... concerning Muslim law... issued by a Muslim cleric or scholar) issued in 1996 by Osama Bin Laden himself, called for American troops to get out of Saudi Arabia. So you are right on the one detail that there was anger at our troops being in Saudi. However the "who" of the matter is where you depart from the facts.
And additional fatwa in 1998 by Bin laden and through Al Qaeda identified the Iraq sanctions as a reason to kill Americans: It says.."On that basis,(the support of Israel) and in compliance with Allah's order, we issue the following fatwa to all Muslims:The ruling to kill the Americans and their allies—civilians and military—is an individual duty for every Muslim".
Please note: That doesnt say every Saudi citizen...or every Kuwaiti citizen.
Not sure where you got your facts on the last part of this statement.That the 9/11 murderers were Muslim is secondary to their being Saudi and Kuwaiti
The pilot of the first plane to hit the World Trade Center, Mohamed Atta, came from Egypt. The pilot of the second plane, Marwan al-Shehhi, was from the United Arab Emirates. The pilot of the plane that crashed in Pennsylvania, Ziad Jarrah ,was from Beirut. All together..Fifteen of the hijackers were from Saudi Arabia, two from the United Arab Emirates, one from Egypt and one from Lebanon.....(none from Kuwait)
"I believe the game is designed to reward the ones who hit the hardest. If you can't take it, you shouldn't play"
-- Jack Lambert --
zu you have been completely dismissive of any bit of evidence that counters your claim. calling them rediculous examples and such.
There were 22 homicides on Monday, raising the death toll since Friday to 73. More than 1,870 people have been slain in the Juárez area this year.
Daniel Borunda may be reached at dborunda@elpasotimes.com; 546-6102.
Car bomb update
A man accused of taking part in the Juárez car bomb attack last month said the materials to build the bomb came from El Paso
Noe Fuentes Chavira, 29, made the claim in a video interview by Mexico's Ministry of Public Safety that aired on Mexican news media. Fuentes, who was arrested last week by federal police, allegedly works for La Linea, or Juárez drug cartel.
Fuentes said the material was given to a person who built the explosive, which was detonated by using a cell phone on a street in downtown Juárez on July 15. The ambush killed a federal police officer, a paramedic and a man dressed as a municipal officer used as a decoy to lure police.
Fuentes said attacks are often timed to take place a half hour before or during television news broadcasts to maximize their exposure.
but please dont insult my intelligence by saying it is akin to comparing apples to electical appliances.
the juarez terrorists i have offered as examples are catholic christians. the same people who are carrying out these acts of terrorism on saturdays and mondays are going to a churgh or family gathering for a niece/nephew/child's baptism or 1st holy communion on sundays.
terrorism is terrorism, and a threat is a threat. the Christians who kill people in this manner are just as "holy" as the muslims who are doing the same. they will all burn in hell. the only difference i can see is the islam fundamentalists are more indoctrinated and brainwashed with the greed of virgins and sex in heaven, where as the Christians have a more focused purpose of money and power while on earth.
but discussing global islam has strayed far off topic. this thread is about the percieved threat and offensive nature of a mosque in NYC.
offensive? yes.
an actual threat? i dont think so. even if it is there are most certainly much bigger fish to fry.
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