Are the Steelers guards good enough?

[zulater]

I think I got a fairly firm handle on the Steelers respective strengths and weaknesess pretty much straight across the board. That is until you come to the position of offensive guard. Kemo and Foster, I'm just not sure what we got with these two guys?

Let's start with Ramon Foster. Basically he was thrust into the starting line up after Trai Exxess proved so inept that the coaches hand was essentially forced. ( more on Essex later) The first 300 pounder they came across that didn't look particuarly busy that day in the locker room I'm guessing was Ramon, so the next thing you know, bingo, new NFL starter. ( jk folks, it just seemed that way )

Now here's the funny part. Once the change was made I can't remember Ramon sticking out in a negative way? In a way offensive linemen are like refs inasmuch as the less you notice them the better they're usually doing they're job. Don't get me wrong, nothing gets our blood stirring more than a great pancake block out in space, memories of Faneca roadgrading in front of a sweep etc.. are wonderfull memories no doubt. But sometimes workmanlike anonymity can be a wonderfull thing.

So for Ramon the question is, do we have enough to go on to assume that he can competently hold down the position going foward? I'm semi conflicted, you always worry about the possibility of the more information ( film) the league gets on him the less effective he'll be. But then again the Packers had two weeks to dissect his game, and he seemed to hold up all right against them. My vote on Ramon is yes! I think we may have finally found ourselves a bona fide right guard. Don't get me wrong, I'm not predicting Pro Bowls, and year end honors for Ramon. But I think we got a guy we can trust to get the job done. And obviously in the Steelers system the need for a high end right guard in non existent, this I know, because when was the last time we had one that was all that great?

Later I'll discuss the Steelers real enigma, Chris Kemoeatu. But for now, just curious on what you guys think of Foster, particuarly those of you that rewatch games after the fact, ( chidi call out ) do you think we're set for now with Ramon as the right guard?

[Steeldude]

i feel better about foster than i do kemo. there are just too many mental lapses with kemo. if kemo remains focused he is good, but the focus doesn't seem to be there enough. he gets stood up more than he should for a guy with his size and strength, but the main issue with kemo has been the mental part of the game. as of now i think the foster and kemo are good enough for now. i am content with foster at the moment. i think kemo will need to be addressed.

the tackle spot is what appears to be the problem, IMO. colon might go elsewhere. adams is rather old and i have heard rumors he may be cut. starks, if recovered, will be fine at LT, but where is the depth? where is the pupil ready to take over a starting tackle job? hills is a joke. essex is only average on his best day. scott is purely a backup. i see nothing promising.

[86WARD]

Steelers want Flozell back and he played well last season. I'd take him back in a second. Never trust ESPN...

Pittsburgh Steelers team president Art Rooney II said in Chantilly, Va., that the club wants tackle Flozell Adams back next season, denying an ESPN report that Adams would be released according to Gerry Dulac of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette. Adams, who will turn 36 this year, has a $5 million salary for next season.

Source: Gerry Dulac, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

[tube517]

No. They aren't good enough. They knew they got a hothead w/Kemo. It was in his draft report. Foster was an undrafted free agent, basically a third string OG. We need an OG badly.

[Steeldude]

Foster was an undrafted free agent, basically a third string OG

being an undrafted free agent does not make a player bad. neither does being 3rd string at one time. look at james harrison.

foster has played well after being inserted at RG. do you think the guards or more of a need than tackles at this point? i am not against drafting a G, T or DB in the first. i just want it to be a quality player who will be an obvious improvement or near-future improvement in one of those areas.

[tube517]

Where did I say he was bad??? Who do they have behind them?? Legursky is the backup C and a good backup but there is nothing else behind them.

being an undrafted free agent does not make a player bad. neither does being 3rd string at one time. look at james harrison.

foster has played well after being inserted at RG. do you think the guards or more of a need than tackles at this point? i am not against drafting a G, T or DB in the first. i just want it to be a quality player who will be an obvious improvement or near-future improvement in one of those areas.

[steelerdude15]

Other than Kemo, no our guards are horrible.

[steelreserve]

If it will keep people from saying "OMG we need to draft an offensive lineman in the first round," then yes, our guards are good enough. Couldn't be happier with them. Not really. But seriously, we can wait a couple rounds before we start drafting linemen, if that's where this is going.

[The Duke]

Other than Kemo, no our guards are horrible.

and kemo is good enough? Imo he's worse than foster, though that's not saying much

there are plenty of guards with a lot of upside which can be drafted in round 3-4. I hope we get at least one. But no, not in the 1st. Unless pouncey falls, which is just not gonna happen

[Chidi29]

I'll break them down quickly. I'm counting Legursky as a center, by the way even though he can play guard.

Foster: Gave up six sacks according to my numbers, the most of any lineman. I don't really like him. Versatile backup which is great to have but I don't see him as a starter. The second game against Cincy really turned me off. He doesn't fire off the ball well enough and can get blown back because of that. Not much of an athlete either. He works ok in a booth and is a bigger asset to our trap blocks than given credit for, but he's not a starter.

Essex: Gave up two sacks in limited time. Again, a pretty good swingman because he can play probably anywhere on the line. But he's god awful in pass protection and is always getting beat by swim moves. Doesn't show good balance and plays too stiff. Only backup material.

Kemoeatu: Gave up three sacks. I was disappointed by his play last year. Thought he was going to breakout be he regressed. He is still athletic and a monster on trap blocks, but like Essex, he plays too high and gets bullrushed all the time. Also loses his cool way too much. A real hot-head.

Chris Scott: Didn't play at all last year. Don't know much about him. Heard he had weight issues coming out of college. Concerned what kind of shape he will be in after the fractured foot and any missed time due to the CBA problems.

Dorian Brooks: Was on the fifty-three for the Super Bowl. Considered to be a small-school sleeper coming out of James Madison. Also can play FB in a Legursky role.

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Right guard is the area that he have to upgrade IMO. It's been a revolving door there forever. From Stapleton, to Essex, to Legursky, to Foster. Probably goes even farther back, I just can't think of anything off the top of my head.

Left guard gets interesting. I'd still give Kemoeatu time. And there is still a good amount of money tied up in him. I'm not opposed to moving him to RG if you want to draft a guy like Hudson who will be a LG for us. But I hope we pull a lot with Kemo on the right side. Otherwise, it's a waste. It would be nice to be able to pull to both sides. The few times we pull to the left, it's usually Heath pulling and being the lead blocker. And we sorta give it away by having him play off the line in a two-point stance. We don't run that much to the left because we love to pull when we run and we don't have a pulling guard on the right side.

[zulater]

Chidi, give us a breakdown on those 6 sacks you attributed to Foster when you get a chance. Was that playoff inclusive? I guess what it comes down to for me, I can remember saying sometime during the season that Foster was arguably the worst at his position among starters in the league. But at some point late into the season, from my perspective his play stabilized to the point that I thought he looked downright competent by the playoffs.


As far as Kemo, I remember thinking late in the 2008 season that he was on the verge of becoming a well above average starter. And at times I still think he can be one. But he's so maddeningly inconsistent, and worse yet at times plays stupid. He makes more mental errors than any experienced offensive lineman I've ever seen. At this point it's hard to imagine him progressing past it, I guess you just have to accept that's part of the package with him.

Now for Trai Essex, as a starter, no thanks, he was brutal before he was benched. But as a swingman you can't beat him. Trai can play every position on the offensive line with some degree of compentency other than center. Having him on the roster is a great safety net for this team and I hope we manage to resign him.

As for Legurskey, another nice backup with versatility. In this day and age you can't have too many Legurskey's or Essex's on the roster.

So in the end what it comes down to for me, is that I can live with Kemo as my left guard, though there's going to be one or two plays every game where he makes me want to pound my head into the door.

Ramon Foster, the jury is still out for me. I recognize what chidi was alluding to with his shortcomings, but it seemed to me that his play improved significantly late in the year, to the point that I can at least entertain the notion that he might be a viable NFL starter. Remember Ramon was only a second year player last season who had limited reps as a rookie, so it could be that his play might still improve as he learns the NFL game?

[steelreserve]

As I've said before, if you want to fix one area, you have to let another go. If you're not content with being so-so in one or two areas, the cap will force you anyway. We can much more afford that area to be OL than the defensive backfield. This is life.

[steelerdude15]

I've always pushed for Kemo to be moved to right guard because that's his natural position. Like I've said about the draft, I would like to get a guard in the first round, but if we lose Ike, we have to draft a corner.

[Steeldude]

Where did I say he was bad??? Who do they have behind them?? Legursky is the backup C and a good backup but there is nothing else behind them.

i wasn't implying that you said he was bad. i should have worded it differently, but you are saying since he was undrafted and 3rd string at one time that he isn't good enough. it's always easier to find guards than tackles. as of now the status of adams and colon are not definite. you have colon coming off an injury and wanting more money. then you have 36 year old adams. he went down a number of times last year, but luckily didn't really miss any substantial time. who are the backup tackles? scott, essex and hills. are you comfortable with that? essex is a better guard than tackle, IMO.

[Chidi29]

Chidi, give us a breakdown on those 6 sacks you attributed to Foster when you get a chance. Was that playoff inclusive? I guess what it comes down to for me, I can remember saying sometime during the season that Foster was arguably the worst at his position among starters in the league. But at some point late into the season, from my perspective his play stabilized to the point that I thought he looked downright competent by the playoffs.


As far as Kemo, I remember thinking late in the 2008 season that he was on the verge of becoming a well above average starter. And at times I still think he can be one. But he's so maddeningly inconsistent, and worse yet at times plays stupid. He makes more mental errors than any experienced offensive lineman I've ever seen. At this point it's hard to imagine him progressing past it, I guess you just have to accept that's part of the package with him.

Now for Trai Essex, as a starter, no thanks, he was brutal before he was benched. But as a swingman you can't beat him. Trai can play every position on the offensive line with some degree of compentency other than center. Having him on the roster is a great safety net for this team and I hope we manage to resign him.

As for Legurskey, another nice backup with versatility. In this day and age you can't have too many Legurskey's or Essex's on the roster.

So in the end what it comes down to for me, is that I can live with Kemo as my left guard, though there's going to be one or two plays every game where he makes me want to pound my head into the door.

Ramon Foster, the jury is still out for me. I recognize what chidi was alluding to with his shortcomings, but it seemed to me that his play improved significantly late in the year, to the point that I can at least entertain the notion that he might be a viable NFL starter. Remember Ramon was only a second year player last season who had limited reps as a rookie, so it could be that his play might still improve as he learns the NFL game?

Here are the breakdowns of the sacks he allowed. And yes, that's playoffs not including the Super Bowl.

3rd and 11, 8:32 left in 3rd: They run a stunt with Mike Wright. Foster sees it only at the very last second and can't slow him up. Ben gets called for being in the grasp. It's a tough play for Foster to make, but ultimately, he is expected to pick up that stunt. Pouncey moved to Foster's lineman and Foster has to move to the guy stunting.

- 3rd and 8, 12:30 left in 1st: Shotgun, 4 WR, 1 RB. Ngata gets inside of Foster, clocks Ben in the nose. Suggs beats Flozell off the edge and cleans up the sack. (half allowed)

2nd and 7, 13:35 left in 4th: Singleback, 2 TE (1 to each side) 2 WR. Foster gets bullrushed by Sims. Hands were too far outside. You can clearly see Foster's right arm on the outside shoulder of Sims. Sims gets his hands inside and underneath Foster and drove him into the backfield. He disengaged and got the sack.

3rd and 18, 12:19 left in the 2nd: Shotgun, 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 RB. Ben is able to get the Panthers to show where the pressure is coming from. They have only three down lineman with one lineman roaming. He's able to get the lineman to show he's going to try to split the RG and RT. It actually ends up being a stunt with the roaming DL trying to crash late and get the RG's attention so he doesn't see the LE loop around through the "C" gap. But the pre-snap recognition lets Foster digest the play and he is able to see the stunt. Unfortuantely, the end, Charles Johnson, gets underneath him and throws Foster aside.

1st and 10, 5:34 left in 3rd: 3 TE, 2 to the right, 1 RB, 1 WR. Dwyer does a poor job picking up the safety blitz, who gets the initial pressure. Foster follows Pouncey's guy,, getting confused by a stunt and all the movement the Browns had. (half allowed)

1st and 10, 2:55 left in 4th. 3 WR, under center. Ravens rush four, pretty vanilla stuff. No one could get open since Baltimore dropped seven. Redding takes Foster close to the LG spot and is able to get under him. Not a stunt though. Tough to blame Foster since he's moving that much laterally, but it was his guy.

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It is possible that it's just taking him time to develop but then again, he wasn't considered highly out of the draft and came to us as a UDFA. That obviously doesn't mean he can't play but when you're looking at what is wrong with him and trying to decide what the problem is, you're more likely to look at a lack of talent.

[Psycho Ward 86]

essex is a better guard than tackle, IMO.

That's not saying much lol. Remember '09?

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

I have no problem with Kemo and with Pouncey playing next to him it helps as he is quick enough to pickup inside stunts. Foster is adequate, but the hope was that Kraig Urbik would turn into that OG of the future and he had to step in. I expect to see an interior O lineman drafted in round 3-5 and we will probably see Foster there with challenges from Legursky, Rookie and maybe Chris Scott.

Just think, the Steelers could have drafted Carl Nicks instead of Tony Hills a few years ago.

[86WARD]

Kraig Urbik? I think I just threw up in my mouth...