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Thread: How slimy can you get??

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    Re: How slimy can you get??

    Quote Originally Posted by The Patriot View Post




    both used targets, its a common term referring to elections and campaigns.

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    Re: How slimy can you get??

    Quote Originally Posted by GoSlash27 View Post
    WTF would any of that have to do with this? Even assuming for the sake of argument that this guy had a Sarah Palin "fathead" on his bedroom wall, you think that this would've been different if she'd marked that map with puppies or daisies? No. The guy's a nutbag and no rhetoric on either side had anything to do with it. "Crazy" has no politics.

    I personally think that more civility in political discourse would be a good thing. Perhaps refraining from exploiting random tragedies to smear your opponents would be a good first step?
    You're acting as if this nut needed direct influence from Palin for a map like this to be irresponsible. It's clear he acted out of his own delirium but anyone with eyes can see that these instances (like in Pittsburgh) of already mentally unstable people acting up are a result of the heated political climate. Someone in Palin's position shouldn't be using this ambiguous language that some nut could use as an excuse to commit violence. If any other political figure had been caught with a map like this after this incident, they would have been just as scrutinized.
    Quote Originally Posted by Borski View Post


    both used targets, its a common term referring to elections and campaigns.
    "Behind enemy lines" is the kind of BS political rhetoric that has to stop, and had somebody fired an arrow at one of these candidates, you'd probably have had a bigger case.

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    Re: How slimy can you get??

    Quote Originally Posted by X-Terminator View Post
    Well, in fairness we heard for eight years that Bush was a Nazi and a war criminal, stole the election, etc.

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    Re: How slimy can you get??

    Well, on a little more positive note...

    Congresswoman raises 2 fingers, gives thumbs-up

    TUCSON, Ariz. – Doctors treating Arizona Rep. Gabrielle Giffords said Monday the congresswoman was responding to verbal commands by raising two fingers of her left hand and even managed to give a thumbs-up.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_med_co...n_brain_injury
    "With love, with patience, and with Faith
    ....She'll make her way" ~ Natalie Merchant

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    Re: How slimy can you get??

    You're acting as if this nut needed direct influence from Palin for a map like this to be irresponsible.
    No I'm not. *You're* the one doing that. I (and the rest of the world) am telling you that his actions had absolutely nothing to do with anybody's maps.

    *edit* Oh, I see what you're saying. Yeah, I am acting like that. And for good reason: That's the way it is. Your argument "her map is irresponsible even though it didn't cause people like this to do anything bad because it caused this guy to do something bad" is totally self-conflicted.
    More to the point, political CAMPAIGNS (martial word) have been RALLYING THE TROOPS (martial word) to TARGET (martial word) ENEMY TERRITORY (martial word) for as long as we've had democracy. *You* act like Palin is the first politician to ever put a target on a map. It ain't "irresponsible", it's normal.

    anyone with eyes can see that these instances (like in Pittsburgh) of already mentally unstable people acting up are a result of the heated political climate.
    No... they're "acting up" because they are INSANE. If you want to link the two together, you're gonna have to provide some sort of proof.
    We could have Rachel Maddow and Ann Coulter skipping off through the daisies together with Al Sharpton and Bill O'Reilly singing Kumbaya in the background. That still ain't gonna keep people like this from climbing bell towers with their sniper rifles and killing people over their alien mind rays or precious bodily fluids or WTF ever.
    And I don't know if you've noticed, but the political climate has been "heated" since long before either of us were born. If you don't like it, then don't feed it by using episodes like this to attack your political opponents before you even know what's going on. Not only does that behavior fuel the fire, but it's frankly disgusting.
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

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    Re: How slimy can you get??

    How the hell can anyone in their right mind blame sarah palin, talk radio, or some dumb map for this shooting. With the violent movies music and video games we have nowadays we're supposed to believe that political rehtoric or a map on the internet with crosshairs on it drove someone to go on a shooting spree??? I know whos fault this shooting is........ready??????.........It's the fault of the guy who pulled the trigger......Oh my God!!! am I really suggesting someone be accountable for their own actions.....Let me shut up with all this crazy talk.

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    Re: How slimy can you get??

    The timing is horrid. But I find it odd that nobody from the Palin camp came out with at least an "Oops!" A genuine one. And if this gunman were Muslim and there was a Facebook page for CAIR that had a similar map with cross-hairs, we'd be outraged.

    I am not saying at all, that she is responsible or that talk radio is responsible. But to not say anything except for some B.S. that they were surveyor marks is stupid.

    Say something to the effect, "Out metaphor used for the battleground states were not the best choice in hindsight. I am disheartened and disgusted that anyone would think to take this literally or use it as an excuse for taking a horrible action - for that I am truly sorry."

    Simple - to the point without taking responsibility for something she's not responsible for.

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    Re: How slimy can you get??

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc_Holiday View Post
    The timing is horrid. But I find it odd that nobody from the Palin camp came out with at least an "Oops!" A genuine one. And if this gunman were Muslim and there was a Facebook page for CAIR that had a similar map with cross-hairs, we'd be outraged.

    I am not saying at all, that she is responsible or that talk radio is responsible. But to not say anything except for some B.S. that they were surveyor marks is stupid.

    Say something to the effect, "Out metaphor used for the battleground states were not the best choice in hindsight. I am disheartened and disgusted that anyone would think to take this literally or use it as an excuse for taking a horrible action - for that I am truly sorry."

    Simple - to the point without taking responsibility for something she's not responsible for.
    I do not agree. I'm not even a Palin fan, but I think it's wrong for her to apologize in any way for anything she's done here, since everybody agrees that her map had fuck-all to do with this. She should be on the offensive against the slimeballs who would dare try to twist this into a political attack on her while a 9 year old girl lays dead. An apology in any form gives credence to their reprehensible behavior.
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

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    Re: How slimy can you get??

    Your an idiot if you think this is n anyway Palins fault. Might as well blame it on Bush to while your at it.


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    Re: How slimy can you get??

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc_Holiday View Post
    The timing is horrid. But I find it odd that nobody from the Palin camp came out with at least an "Oops!" A genuine one. And if this gunman were Muslim and there was a Facebook page for CAIR that had a similar map with cross-hairs, we'd be outraged.

    I am not saying at all, that she is responsible or that talk radio is responsible. But to not say anything except for some B.S. that they were surveyor marks is stupid.

    Say something to the effect, "Out metaphor used for the battleground states were not the best choice in hindsight. I am disheartened and disgusted that anyone would think to take this literally or use it as an excuse for taking a horrible action - for that I am truly sorry."

    Simple - to the point without taking responsibility for something she's not responsible for.
    There is no proof that the guy that did the shooting even visited palins website or listened to talk radio. If I am wrong about this let me know but from the reports i saw this was just some nut job.

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    Re: How slimy can you get??

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach1 View Post
    Your an idiot if you think this is n anyway Palins fault. Might as well blame it on Bush to while your at it.
    Not blaming her at all - but if she doesn't do something proactive, she's done for. Do something the left wouldn't expect. Throw them off their b.s. game.

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    Re: How slimy can you get??

    "Politicizing the incident" ? Be sure the finger is pointing in the right direction. In the wake of this tragic shooting by a complete nutjob, whose name wasn't even known yet, the left jumped all over it. Twitter was all abuzz within minutes with people posting Palins "map" with snide comments like "mission accomplished, Sarah" and "way to go Sarah". Already on The Daily Kos, there are countless articles re-igniting the gun control issue immediately after this tragic event. Politicize much ? And speaking of blaming Sarahs map, how bout the article in The Daily Kos this past week entitled "My congressWOMAN voted against Pelosi. She is dead to me now". Yes, the article was in response to Giffords voting against Nancy Pelosi for House Minority Leader. Don't bother looking for it at The Kos site now. It's been removed in the aftermath of the shooting. But, it is archived at least one place I know of. The left did not wait to find out anything about the shooter before forming an opinion. If fact, rather than some right winger, we have come to learn he was a left wing dope smoker who listed two of his favorite books as "Mien Kampf" and "The Communist Manifesto". But mainly, he was a nutjob. That is more key than his political affiliation...period. He was actually obsessed (then upset) with Giffords.
    Stay classy, leftnutz

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    Re: How slimy can you get??

    Political rhetoric has gotten a little out of hand, is all I'm saying. Slogans like "Don't retreat, reload!" signs that say "We came unarmed this time" and a map with cross-hairs that says "We've diagnosed the problem, help us prescribe the solution". Palin did say: "When we say we need to take up arms, we're talking about our votes," but these gun metaphors kind of border on intimidation in my opinion.

    You can accuse me of trying to capitalize on this incident, but I think this serves as a terrifying reminder of what a crazy person with a gun is capable of. Even though I think he acted out of his own dementia, let's try to demonstrate our conviction to our political beliefs and our nonviolent opposition to the beliefs of others as clearly as possible. No more ambiguous innuendo that could mislead, from Democrats or Republicans.

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    Re: How slimy can you get??

    Quote Originally Posted by The Patriot View Post
    Political rhetoric has gotten a little out of hand, is all I'm saying. Slogans like "Don't retreat, reload!" signs that say "We came unarmed this time" and a map with cross-hairs that says "We've diagnosed the problem, help us prescribe the solution". Palin did say: "When we say we need to take up arms, we're talking about our votes," but these gun metaphors kind of border on intimidation in my opinion.

    You can accuse me of trying to capitalize on this incident, but I think this serves as a terrifying reminder of what a crazy person with a gun is capable of. Even though I think he acted out of his own dementia, let's try to demonstrate our conviction to our political beliefs and our nonviolent opposition to the beliefs of others as clearly as possible. No more ambiguous innuendo that could mislead, from Democrats or Republicans.
    Again, make sure the finger of blame is pointed in the right direction.





    Stay classy, leftnutz

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    Re: How slimy can you get??

    Quote Originally Posted by 7SteelGal43 View Post
    Again, make sure the finger of blame is pointed in the right direction.
    Exactly.
    IMO, this is just another, "We can act this way, but you can't" rant from the left. The very things they are accusing the Republicans of doing, are the things that they did during Bush's tenor in office. Then, it was patriotism and free speech. Today, it is hate and obstructionism. Sorry, can't have it both ways.


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    Re: How slimy can you get??

    Quote Originally Posted by 7SteelGal43 View Post
    Again, make sure the finger of blame is pointed in the right direction.
    Quote Originally Posted by Preacher View Post
    IMO, this is just another, "We can act this way, but you can't" rant from the left. The very things they are accusing the Republicans of doing, are the things that they did during Bush's tenor in office. Then, it was patriotism and free speech. Today, it is hate and obstructionism. Sorry, can't have it both ways.
    I don't recall anybody in their right minds defending idiots who want to hang Bush. I'm sure you can find some people that say Bush should be hanged. I'm sure I could definitively find some people that say Obama should be hanged. Let's not let these types of people set the measure of civility in our political arena.

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    Re: How slimy can you get??

    Quote Originally Posted by The Patriot View Post
    Political rhetoric has gotten a little out of hand, is all I'm saying. Slogans like "Don't retreat, reload!" signs that say "We came unarmed this time" and a map with cross-hairs that says "We've diagnosed the problem, help us prescribe the solution". Palin did say: "When we say we need to take up arms, we're talking about our votes," but these gun metaphors kind of border on intimidation in my opinion.

    You can accuse me of trying to capitalize on this incident, but I think this serves as a terrifying reminder of what a crazy person with a gun is capable of. Even though I think he acted out of his own dementia, let's try to demonstrate our conviction to our political beliefs and our nonviolent opposition to the beliefs of others as clearly as possible. No more ambiguous innuendo that could mislead, from Democrats or Republicans.
    Nobody is *MISLED*!! WTF are you talkin' about, dude?
    If you were to blame Jodie Foster for Hinckley's behavior or the Beatles for Manson or Marilyn Manson for Columbine your argument would at least involve something that was involved with something. "Irresponsible"?!? Is that your new standard now? Society should avoid saying or doing anything that could possibly set off some nut somewhere even though it never has in the past?? How the Hell are we supposed to predict what crazy people think? Nobody can predict what crazy people will think. That's why we call them "CRAZY".

    You're reaching. You just want to use this episode as an excuse to attack somebody you don't like, and it's beyond pathetic. People like you might not owe Palin or the TEA Party an apology, but you do owe an apology to the families of the victims. This is just plain low.

    But as I said, I do agree that the political discussion should be much more civil. Not for the sake of public safety, but merely because it helps to clear the air. If you truly wish to civilize things, I'd suggest in the future *not* picking up the bleeding corpses of 9 year old girls and attempting to use them as bludgeons against your political opponents. Fer Christ's sake, man! At least come up with a coherent argument relating them to your target and give the families some privacy/ time to grieve!
    /WTF is wrong with you people? Have you no decency?
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    Re: How slimy can you get??

    No one should ever be allowed to use Metaphors ever again, we all have to be politically correct

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    Re: How slimy can you get??

    Quote Originally Posted by The Patriot View Post
    I don't recall anybody in their right minds defending idiots who want to hang Bush. I'm sure you can find some people that say Bush should be hanged. I'm sure I could definitively find some people that say Obama should be hanged. Let's not let these types of people set the measure of civility in our political arena.
    There wasn't anyone on the left denouncing those idiots either. That is the point that some are making - some of these same people who gave a nod and wink to that rhetoric are now attempting to pin this tragedy on the right for their own political gain. It's hypocritical and, quite frankly, despicable.








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    Re: How slimy can you get??

    Quote Originally Posted by GoSlash27 View Post
    Nobody is *MISLED*!! WTF are you talkin' about, dude?
    If you were to blame Jodie Foster for Hinckley's behavior or the Beatles for Manson or Marilyn Manson for Columbine your argument would at least involve something that was involved with something. "Irresponsible"?!? Is that your new standard now? Society should avoid saying or doing anything that could possibly set off some nut somewhere even though it never has in the past?? How the Hell are we supposed to predict what crazy people think? Nobody can predict what crazy people will think. That's why we call them "CRAZY".

    You're reaching. You just want to use this episode as an excuse to attack somebody you don't like, and it's beyond pathetic. People like you might not owe Palin or the TEA Party an apology, but you do owe an apology to the families of the victims. This is just plain low.

    But as I said, I do agree that the political discussion should be much more civil. Not for the sake of public safety, but merely because it helps to clear the air. If you truly wish to civilize things, I'd suggest in the future *not* picking up the bleeding corpses of 9 year old girls and attempting to use them as bludgeons against your political opponents. Fer Christ's sake, man! At least come up with a coherent argument relating them to your target and give the families some privacy/ time to grieve!
    /WTF is wrong with you people? Have you no decency?
    Thank you for that fair and tasteful imagery. You have successfully pissed me off. If you're going to keep putting words in my mouth then I'm probably going to end the conversation here, but let me try to hammer in this point before you get hysterical again and go into victim mode.

    Some conservatives, particularly Sarah Palin, love to talk tough. They love to insert veiled threats in their rhetoric, probably because they enjoy the narrative of the people rising up to overthrow a tyrannical government. Palin has done everything short of stroking a gun when she tells Democrats to watch out. Don't try to tell me her rhetoric hasn't been filled with revolutionary and gun related innuendo during her campaigns. Now, that's thankfully not responsible for this shooting, but I doubt Palin will use the slogan "Don't retreat, reload" the next time she pits a tea party candidate against Gifford. I bet a map with cross-hairs on it kind of feels a little foolish and tasteless now that we've been reminded of the terrible reality of gun violence.

    Seriously, I thought Gifford was a danger to this country! I thought she voted for death panels! If you're gonna tell your supporters to "take up arms" and use this harsh rhetoric, you better goddamn mean it! If you're gonna say Assange "should be hunted like Al-Qaeda leaders" you better goddamn mean it! Don't cower in victim mode when you start getting flak for the things you say.

    And don't try this McCarthy/Welch exchange crap on me. You don't think I'm upset about the little girl??? I'm not the one who thinks every idiot who turns 18 should be allowed to purchase a semi-automatic weapon (the army rejected him for christsakes!). But whenever a politician mentions the word gun control, he's met with these same over-dramatic veiled threats, and someone like Palin wouldn't waste a second to jump on that crazy train. I guess it's impossible to allow respectable citizens to own guns and still keep them away from the mentally unstable.

    So yes, I hope this incident gets shoved in the face of every inflammatory, gun-toting politician who's full of hot air and is polluting the political arena with their crap, be it Democrat or Republican.

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    Re: How slimy can you get??

    Quote Originally Posted by The Patriot View Post
    Thank you for that fair and tasteful imagery. You have successfully pissed me off. If you're going to keep putting words in my mouth then I'm probably going to end the conversation here, but let me try to hammer in this point before you get hysterical again and go into victim mode.

    Some conservatives, particularly Sarah Palin, love to talk tough. They love to insert veiled threats in their rhetoric, probably because they enjoy the narrative of the people rising up to overthrow a tyrannical government. Palin has done everything short of stroking a gun when she tells Democrats to watch out. Don't try to tell me her rhetoric hasn't been filled with revolutionary and gun related innuendo during her campaigns. Now, that's thankfully not responsible for this shooting, but I doubt Palin will use the slogan "Don't retreat, reload" the next time she pits a tea party candidate against Gifford. I bet a map with cross-hairs on it kind of feels a little foolish and tasteless now that we've been reminded of the terrible reality of gun violence.

    Seriously, I thought Gifford was a danger to this country! I thought she voted for death panels! If you're gonna tell your supporters to "take up arms" and use this harsh rhetoric, you better goddamn mean it! If you're gonna say Assange "should be hunted like Al-Qaeda leaders" you better goddamn mean it! Don't cower in victim mode when you start getting flak for the things you say.

    And don't try this McCarthy/Welch exchange crap on me. You don't think I'm upset about the little girl??? I'm not the one who thinks every idiot who turns 18 should be allowed to purchase a semi-automatic weapon (the army rejected him for christsakes!). But whenever a politician mentions the word gun control, he's met with these same over-dramatic veiled threats, and someone like Palin wouldn't waste a second to jump on that crazy train. I guess it's impossible to allow respectable citizens to own guns and still keep them away from the mentally unstable.

    So yes, I hope this incident gets shoved in the face of every inflammatory, gun-toting politician who's full of hot air and is polluting the political arena with their crap, be it Democrat or Republican.
    Amen. The deranged prick is being touted by both sides as being influenced by the other. That's the sick part of this - Dems claim this prick is influenced by FOX News and the Likes of Limbaugh claim it's the liberals.

    We need to be impeccable with our words. Say what we mean and mean what we say. If this horrid event were the flip side of Democratic rhetoric and a Republican Congressional rep being at death's door how many of you would flip your decision? How many of you would being slamming the Democrat with the map of cross-hairs?

    That's the litmus test for any one of us trying our best to be authentic and impeccable. No matter what the inflammatory words spewed over the last few years feeds to insanity.

    This dink acted on his own accord regardless of any outside influence and needs to be brought to trial and if found guilty, justice needs to be served.

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    Re: How slimy can you get??

    Thank you for that fair and tasteful imagery. You have successfully pissed me off. If you're going to keep putting words in my mouth then I'm probably going to end the conversation here, but let me try to hammer in this point before you get hysterical again and go into victim mode.
    Save yourself the trouble. "End the conversation" and STFU, 'Cuz AFAIC you should be ashamed to be in the same room with yourself.
    /"Never let a perfectly good crisis go to waste", right?
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    Re: How slimy can you get??

    If this horrid event were the flip side of Democratic rhetoric and a Republican Congressional rep being at death's door how many of you would flip your decision? How many of you would being slamming the Democrat with the map of cross-hairs?
    Excellent question. If this horrid event were "the result" in either case, you might have a point. But it wasn't and you don't. It's nothing more than a sick random event at the hands of a psychopath and this entire discussion ony exists because some hopelessly partisan fuck-heads couldn't be respectful enough to park their politics when families were in pain.

    But to answer your question, if it was the Republicans trying to callously use these people as a political football, I'd be cussing them out mercilessly. Respecting the families of the dead shouldn't be a partisan issue.
    Last edited by GoSlash27; 01-12-2011 at 06:27 AM.
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

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    Re: How slimy can you get??

    "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." - John F Kennedy


    Henry Rollins says it best in my opinion.
    http://www.vanityfair.com/online/dai...attention.html

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    Re: How slimy can you get??

    Quote Originally Posted by The Patriot View Post
    Thank you for that fair and tasteful imagery. You have successfully pissed me off. If you're going to keep putting words in my mouth then I'm probably going to end the conversation here, but let me try to hammer in this point before you get hysterical again and go into victim mode.

    Some conservatives, particularly Sarah Palin, love to talk tough. They love to insert veiled threats in their rhetoric, probably because they enjoy the narrative of the people rising up to overthrow a tyrannical government. Palin has done everything short of stroking a gun when she tells Democrats to watch out. Don't try to tell me her rhetoric hasn't been filled with revolutionary and gun related innuendo during her campaigns. Now, that's thankfully not responsible for this shooting, but I doubt Palin will use the slogan "Don't retreat, reload" the next time she pits a tea party candidate against Gifford. I bet a map with cross-hairs on it kind of feels a little foolish and tasteless now that we've been reminded of the terrible reality of gun violence.
    Thank you for seeing the difference between rhetoric and a command to kill. However, I disagree with you on her maybe finding a map with crosshairs foolish or tasteless. It is VERY common in political speech to TARGET districts. Both parties do it. No target had a face in the map. Only the district. It is, in the context of politics, very appropriate. You target races. And how, BTW, is it worse than “If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun, because from what I understand folks in Philly like a good brawl. I’ve seen Eagles fans.” Shouldn't Obama's speech be in the "crosshairs" now?

    ESPECIALLY, when it turns out that the shooter was someone that, with any kind of political leanings, would be considered far left (Mien Kampf and the Communist Manifesto). Isn't it arguable that if this guy was that able to be influenced by someone on the right, then that they are just as able to be that influenced by someone on the left?

    Seriously, I thought Gifford was a danger to this country! I thought she voted for death panels! If you're gonna tell your supporters to "take up arms" and use this harsh rhetoric, you better goddamn mean it! If you're gonna say Assange "should be hunted like Al-Qaeda leaders" you better goddamn mean it! Don't cower in victim mode when you start getting flak for the things you say.
    Like, "Seniors are going to have to start eating dogfood if this passes"

    OBAMA: Now, if there was not collateral damage,(so this is a war?) if this was just a matter of my politics or being able to persuade the American people to my side, then I would just stick to my guns because the fact of the matter is the American people already agree with me. There are polls showing right now that the American people for the most part think it's a bad idea to provide tax cuts to the wealthy.


    Or how about this:

    (WARNING, NSFW LANGUAGE)



    (This- is the founder of DailyKos)


    And I guess, this is wrong too then? (each red target is a "Targeted Republican")





    All of which come from teh Democrat Congressional Campaign Office.

    Again, as others have asked, why is Palin's so dangerous, and this one not, when this one was done by someone closer to the political leaning of the shooter (though in no way associated).

    BTW, they have removed it from their site, deleted the entire site itself (it was a spinoff). However, here is the Press release on it: http://dccc.org/blog/entry/dccc_anno...oots_campaign/



    And don't try this McCarthy/Welch exchange crap on me. You don't think I'm upset about the little girl??? I'm not the one who thinks every idiot who turns 18 should be allowed to purchase a semi-automatic weapon (the army rejected him for christsakes!). But whenever a politician mentions the word gun control, he's met with these same over-dramatic veiled threats, and someone like Palin wouldn't waste a second to jump on that crazy train. I guess it's impossible to allow respectable citizens to own guns and still keep them away from the mentally unstable.
    Simply put, to mention gun control at a time like this is politicizing a tragedy (not you, politicians). Why? Because every state has laws which deny this person from owning a gun. He was mentally unfit. The issue is not laws, but the ability to enforce them. More laws won't solve the problem.

    So yes, I hope this incident gets shoved in the face of every inflammatory, gun-toting politician who's full of hot air and is polluting the political arena with their crap, be it Democrat or Republican.
    And those non-gun toting politicians who use the same language-- LIke the entire Democrat Congressional Campaign Committee?
    Like Obama?

    If you truly believe that, then good. We are in agreement. Now, would you also agree that we need to stop sound bite politics- like "The right gave 98% of the middle class a tax hike" (said within the last month),


  27. #57
    Quest For Seven Array title="Mach1 has a reputation beyond repute"> Mach1's Avatar

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    Re: How slimy can you get??

    Quote Originally Posted by GoSlash27 View Post
    Save yourself the trouble. "End the conversation" and STFU, 'Cuz AFAIC you should be ashamed to be in the same room with yourself.
    /"Never let a perfectly good crisis go to waste", right?
    I'm sure The Cheatriot has already sent in his blood money.

    Bernie Sanders Uses Tucson in Fundraising Pitch
    January 11, 2011 4:09 P.M.
    By Daniel Foster

    Stephen Hayes at The Weekly Standard points to a fundraising letter sent out by Sen. Bernie Sanders, Democratic Socialist of Vermont, that uses the Tucson shootings in a pitch for political contributions to help fight off ”the Republican Party, big money corporate interests and right-wing organizations.”

    What should be understood is that the violence, and threats of violence against Democrats in Arizona, was not limited to Gabrielle Giffords. Raul Grijalva, an old friend of mine and one of the most progressive members in the House, was forced to close his district office this summer when someone shot a bullet through his office window. Another Democratic elected official in Arizona, recently defeated Congressman Harry Mitchell, suspended town meetings in his district because of the threatening phone calls that he received (Mitchell was also in the cross-hairs on the Palin map). And Judge John Roll, who was shot to death at the Giffords event, had received numerous threatening calls and death threats in 2009.
    http://www.nationalreview.com/corner...-daniel-foster


    Give a lib a fish--he eats for a day

    Teach a lib to fish--he is back the next day asking for more free fish.

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  28. #58
    Official Troll Array title="The Patriot is a name known to all"> The Patriot's Avatar

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    Re: How slimy can you get??

    Quote Originally Posted by Preacher View Post
    Thank you for seeing the difference between rhetoric and a command to kill. However, I disagree with you on her maybe finding a map with crosshairs foolish or tasteless. It is VERY common in political speech to TARGET districts. Both parties do it. No target had a face in the map. Only the district. It is, in the context of politics, very appropriate. You target races. And how, BTW, is it worse than “If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun, because from what I understand folks in Philly like a good brawl. I’ve seen Eagles fans.” Shouldn't Obama's speech be in the "crosshairs" now?

    ESPECIALLY, when it turns out that the shooter was someone that, with any kind of political leanings, would be considered far left (Mien Kampf and the Communist Manifesto). Isn't it arguable that if this guy was that able to be influenced by someone on the right, then that they are just as able to be that influenced by someone on the left?

    Like, "Seniors are going to have to start eating dogfood if this passes"

    OBAMA: Now, if there was not collateral damage,(so this is a war?) if this was just a matter of my politics or being able to persuade the American people to my side, then I would just stick to my guns because the fact of the matter is the American people already agree with me. There are polls showing right now that the American people for the most part think it's a bad idea to provide tax cuts to the wealthy.


    Or how about this:

    (WARNING, NSFW LANGUAGE)

    (This- is the founder of DailyKos)


    And I guess, this is wrong too then? (each red target is a "Targeted Republican"

    All of which come from teh Democrat Congressional Campaign Office.

    Again, as others have asked, why is Palin's so dangerous, and this one not, when this one was done by someone closer to the political leaning of the shooter (though in no way associated).

    BTW, they have removed it from their site, deleted the entire site itself (it was a spinoff). However, here is the Press release on it: http://dccc.org/blog/entry/dccc_anno...oots_campaign/




    Simply put, to mention gun control at a time like this is politicizing a tragedy (not you, politicians). Why? Because every state has laws which deny this person from owning a gun. He was mentally unfit. The issue is not laws, but the ability to enforce them. More laws won't solve the problem.



    And those non-gun toting politicians who use the same language-- LIke the entire Democrat Congressional Campaign Committee?
    Like Obama?

    If you truly believe that, then good. We are in agreement. Now, would you also agree that we need to stop sound bite politics- like "The right gave 98% of the middle class a tax hike" (said within the last month),
    Okay, you wrote a lot so let me try to respond to it all.

    I'll admit I was mistaken a few days ago. I heard the local sheriff's speech about the political rhetoric in this country being out of control, so I assumed this was a political killing. Now it's apparent that the sheriff gave people a false impression and the killer is just as crazy as they come - not even right wing at all (as you said).

    That being said, I think Sarah Palin's map is catching flak because of the specific use of cross-hairs. Other politicians have used maps with targets, but a red circular target hasn't really spelled "kill shot" since probably the middle ages. It's come to symbolize an objective, while cross-hairs have a more hostile meaning. I don't think Palin would be getting this kind of flak if she had used arrow targets instead, it's probably a decision she didn't even make herself, but it's still an example of gun innuendo getting you into trouble.

    I don't know why Obama said "If they bring a knife, we bring a gun." I know that would make me feel uncomfortable if I was at that speech. But yeah, that type of crap needs to stop. And if one of his political opponents were shot or stabbed in wake of that, he would probably be receiving just as much scrutiny. Like I said, I'm not trying to pick favorites.

    Bringing up gun control isn't politicizing the event. After 9/11 we reexamined airport security. It's natural to want to find ways to prevent these things from happening even if pure misfortune is to blame. You're right, more laws might not be the answer to keeping guns away from lunatics, but it's important to determine how this killer obtained a weapon and if any of the laws we have in place could have prevented that.

    Is a gun shop owner allowed to use common sense when I guy like this walks into his store?

    Would we really be infringing on your 2nd Amendment rights if your doctor just had to verify that you were sane before you got your gun license? And if precautions like this already exist, why did they fail in this instance? I know we can't stop every person with evil intentions, but these are questions I'd really like answered.

  29. #59
    The voice of reason Array title="GoSlash27 has a reputation beyond repute"> GoSlash27's Avatar

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    Re: How slimy can you get??

    Bringing up gun control isn't politicizing the event. After 9/11 we reexamined airport security. It's natural to want to find ways to prevent these things from happening even if pure misfortune is to blame. You're right, more laws might not be the answer to keeping guns away from lunatics, but it's important to determine how this killer obtained a weapon and if any of the laws we have in place could have prevented that.

    Is a gun shop owner allowed to use common sense when I guy like this walks into his store?

    Would we really be infringing on your 2nd Amendment rights if your doctor just had to verify that you were sane before you got your gun license? And if precautions like this already exist, why did they fail in this instance? I know we can't stop every person with evil intentions, but these are questions I'd really like answered.
    Unlike all the tripe about "political rhetoric", this subject is actually germane to the event. We always have this discussion in the wake of mass-shootings and we no doubt will again... *After* the funerals and after the investigation. The only question I can answer with 100% certainty right now is this: Gun shop owners absolutely have the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason. I, too, want to know why this one didn't.
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

  30. #60
    member since day 1 Array title="7SteelGal43 is a name known to all"> 7SteelGal43's Avatar

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    Re: How slimy can you get??

    Quote Originally Posted by The Patriot View Post
    I don't recall anybody in their right minds defending idiots who want to hang Bush. I'm sure you can find some people that say Bush should be hanged. I'm sure I could definitively find some people that say Obama should be hanged. Let's not let these types of people set the measure of civility in our political arena.

    Patriot, I never said you were defending them. I was only pointing out the blatant un-checked hypocrisy. Like saying the rhetoric must be toned down but only citing something Palin said or a map she published or a sign seen at a tea party rally. The left talks about the hateful rhetoric coming from the right as if we haven't seen 10 times worse coming from the left, and for a helluva lot longer.
    Stay classy, leftnutz

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