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Thread: I know we hate Brady...but he's the best QB I have ever seen

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    Re: I know we hate Brady...but he's the best QB I have ever seen

    Quote Originally Posted by beSteelmyheart View Post
    Ugh...Can we turn down the slobknobbery of Tom Brady, please? I get enough of that shit on ESPN & can't take much more of it. Season after season. It just makes me want to friggin puke. Enough, already.
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    Re: I know we hate Brady...but he's the best QB I have ever seen

    I am in a way sort of hoping that this is the AFC Championship

    I hate both teams, HOWEVER, admire the way they play the game and the way they have built their respective teams into consistant winners in the NFL era of the salary cap, and think it would be a great matchup of two of the best teams of the past decade.

    Defensive geniuses in the forms of lebeau and belichick, two great QB's in Brady and Roethlisberger, all perhaps played in the snow of either heinz field or foxboro on a sunday evening? damn, if I was a not a fan of the Browns I would be rooting for this matchup.

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    Re: I know we hate Brady...but he's the best QB I have ever seen

    I don't respect Bellycheat. He's a convicted cheater and his actions show a lack of respect for the game.

    As far as that POS metrosexual deadbeat dad, I think a second ring for Manning or Breesus makes it decisive in their favor.

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    Re: I know we hate Brady...but he's the best QB I have ever seen

    Quote Originally Posted by beSteelmyheart View Post
    Ugh...Can we turn down the slobknobbery of Tom Brady, please? I get enough of that shit on ESPN & can't take much more of it. Season after season. It just makes me want to friggin puke. Enough, already.



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    Re: I know we hate Brady...but he's the best QB I have ever seen

    Quote Originally Posted by BlastFurnace View Post
    If the Steelers had the Patriots efficiency on offense over the past decade, this team would have 8 Lombardi's. Brady is a big part of their efficiency.

    He didn't play but one QTR in 2008. Last year, they had a bad matchup in the first round for them. For some reason, the Ravens cause him problems, but the Steelers don't.
    The Ravens have a similar defense to ours, but their secondary as a whole is stronger and they are more capable of playing bump and run man coverage when they blitz. It doesn't give Brady an easy decision when he needs to get rid of the ball quick. Most of the time when we blitz (IF we blitz), we tend to go with softer coverage on our corners and the wide receivers are always open for the shorter stuff underneath or if he drops it off as an outlet pass to a RB, the corners are so far back in their coverage that they aren't close enough to provide quick containment for the play. Brady always seems to have someplace to go with the ball when he plays us. Hopefully, Lebeau will pay attention to what the Ravens have done with Brady and what Cleveland did eariler this year.

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    Re: I know we hate Brady...but he's the best QB I have ever seen

    Quote Originally Posted by zulater View Post


    ESPN radio host going straight to the source.
    This reminds me of the total lovefest during last week's MNF game where Chuckie Gruden said something like
    "How 'bout those two young tight ends" and then added something like "those two tight ends & a QB like Tom Brady" !!!!!
    Am I the only one with a twisted mind that hears this kind of thing? Am I crazy?
    No more Marsha love, this is a Steelers forum, people.
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    Re: I know we hate Brady...but he's the best QB I have ever seen

    Sorry -- Brady is good, but when you compare him to someone like Joe Montana, it's really no contest. There's a reason why whenever someone says "Patriots" and "dynasty" in the same sentence, it's immediately followed by "in the salary cap era."

    First of all, the rules of the game today favor the passer so much more than they did for guys like Montana, Marino and Elway that it's not even funny. Whatever you think about the 49ers, Montana didn't beat you with a roughing the passer penalty, a 40-yard pass interference call and a cheap field goal when you were up by 2, because the refs didn't give you that.

    A big part of Brady's advantage is also that the Patriots' front office has been good at managing the salary cap -- or rather, that other teams haven't. It's pretty much guaranteed that 9 out of 10 teams you face today will have at least one obvious hole because they have to start a rookie cornerback after their Pro Bowler signed with Washington for $9 million a year, or they had to let one of their best pass rushers go because they didn't have enough cap space. It's pretty easy for a system QB to exploit that. In the Montana/Marino/Elway era, you had opponents who were all-around solid like the Bears, Giants, Bills, and to a lesser extent the Redskins, Vikings and Rams, and later the Cowboys. Today, it's the Steelers, Patriots and whatever flavor of the month team gets on a lucky roll (I could say the Colts, but they've been so shaky defensively for so long that I have a hard time classifying them as a truly "elite" team). There hasn't been another AFC East team that you could take seriously as a title contender for almost a decade.

    It's a completely different class of competition. You also didn't have the Panthers, Jaguars, Texans and New Browns diluting the talent pool; that may not sound like much, but it waters down the defensive talent level by about 15%, and that combined with the cap makes it much harder to put together three or four good DBs at once.

    Overall, yeah, I grudgingly admit Brady is good, but to say "best I've ever seen" is downright laughable. Not even close.

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    Re: I know we hate Brady...but he's the best QB I have ever seen

    Quote Originally Posted by SMR View Post
    Thank you!!! Tell that to Blast Furnace! Blast Furnace: think Black 'n Gold and stop drooling over Marsha. Really!
    I'm sorry, but I can't admire an offense that can't run block, pass block, run a screen pass, score in the red zone, and gets their QB killed.

    Look, I hate the Patriots as much as anyone, but their offense does exactly what I wish the Steelers could do.

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    Re: I know we hate Brady...but he's the best QB I have ever seen

    Quote Originally Posted by steelreserve View Post
    Sorry -- Brady is good, but when you compare him to someone like Joe Montana, it's really no contest. There's a reason why whenever someone says "Patriots" and "dynasty" in the same sentence, it's immediately followed by "in the salary cap era."

    First of all, the rules of the game today favor the passer so much more than they did for guys like Montana, Marino and Elway thiat it's not even funny. Whatever you think about the 49ers, Montana didn't beat you with a roughing the passer penalty, a 40-yard pass interference call and a cheap field goal when you were up by 2, because the refs didn't give you that.

    A big part of Brady's advantage is also that the Patriots' front office has been good at managing the salary cap -- or rather, that other teams haven't. It's pretty much guaranteed that 9 out of 10 teams you face today will have at least one obvious hole because they have to start a rookie cornerback after their Pro Bowler signed with Washington for $9 million a year, or they had to let one of their best pass rushers go because they didn't have enough cap space. It's pretty easy for a system QB to exploit that. In the Montana/Marino/Elway era, you had opponents who were all-around solid like the Bears, Giants, Bills, and to a lesser extent the Redskins, Vikings and Rams, and later the Cowboys. Today, it's the Steelers, Patriots and whatever flavor of the month team gets on a lucky roll (I could say the Colts, but they've been so shaky defensively for so long that I have a hard time classifying them as a truly "elite" team). There hasn't been another AFC East team that you could take seriously as a title contender for almost a decade.

    It's a completely different class of competition. You also didn't have the Panthers, Jaguars, Texans and New Browns diluting the talent pool; that may not sound like much, but it waters down the defensive talent level by about 15%, and that combined with the cap makes it much harder to put together three or four good DBs at once.

    Overall, yeah, I grudgingly admit Brady is good, but to say "best I've ever seen" is downright laughable. Not even close.
    I'm old enough to have watched Montana play his entire career too. It's not laughable at all. And you're saying that the 49'ers and other great teams only played against teams with solid talent bases? Please...every great team played against really bad teams. It's no different than today. The rules may be different, but the disparity between good and bad teams has always been there.

    It's not a slight against anyone on the Steelers or anyone else either. Not to mention, if the Steeler offense was as efficient as the Patriots offense, we would love it.

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    Re: I know we hate Brady...but he's the best QB I have ever seen

    Quote Originally Posted by BlastFurnace View Post
    I'm old enough to have watched Montana play his entire career too. It's not laughable at all. And you're saying that the 49'ers and other great teams only played against teams with solid talent bases? Please...every great team played against really bad teams. It's no different than today. The rules may be different, but the disparity between good and bad teams has always been there.

    It's not a slight against anyone on the Steelers or anyone else either. Not to mention, if the Steeler offense was as efficient as the Patriots offense, we would love it.
    No, I'm not saying Montana only played against other great teams. More like there were six or seven of them that he played on a regular basis. Today, there are no great teams.

    This has nothing to do with stats, by the way (although that's another story if you want to get into it), but it has everything to do with labels like "winner," "killer instinct," "clutch player," etc. You won a Super Bowl when Montana and Elway were playing, you had to go through several teams that would be regarded as elite by any standard. None of the stuff like today, where even most playoff teams have big question marks. The front office didn't factor into it as much. Special rules didn't factor into it as much.

    Yes, Brady, Belichick and the NE front office are all masters of knowing the rules and using them to their advantage, but what it amounts to is a huge assist for Brady when you get into these "best quarterback" discussions. The system offense wouldn't have worked very well except under today's rules, and the system approach to player management wouldn't have worked at any time except under today's rules.

    Am I saying it's impossible to compare Brady, Manning, Ben, etc. to QBs who didn't play under this structure? In a way, I guess I am. They've really convoluted the game over the past 10-15 years in the name of parity and fan excitement (scoring), which I don't particularly like -- and Brady is the ultimate manifestation of that. Under these rules, I don't think you're ever going to see a team that could compete with, say, the Bears and Giants in the 80s and 90s. It's just not possible. Pretty much everything done today is against a lower level of competition, and in a different game, Ben's accomplishments included. All you can do is guess, but I am not really inclined to place any of today's QBs among the all-time greats. Given the structure that exists today, they might as well all be on steroids. Just not seeing it.

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    Re: I know we hate Brady...but he's the best QB I have ever seen

    Quote Originally Posted by steelreserve View Post
    This has nothing to do with stats, by the way (although that's another story if you want to get into it), but it has everything to do with labels like "winner," "killer instinct," "clutch player," etc.... Special rules didn't factor into it as much.
    Thanks SR, because of the words you just used, James Harrison will get another fine today and the patriots* another draft pick.


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    Re: I know we hate Brady...but he's the best QB I have ever seen

    Back on topic...Brady is a great QB but Marino put up disgusting numbers with much less talent around him than Brady has had in his career.

    Quick, name 2 players on the Dolphins with Dan not named Duper or Clayton?

    Marino was a great QB. He lost his only SB apperance to a better QB named Montana.

    But I'll put Tom Brady in the discussion, I'm not a total hater (til we play them again)

    Elway was fantastic as well, big play guy, warrior type QB who never quit and had some of the best drives and moments. What is Brady's "moment"?

    Thats a legit question. Montana has "moments" Memories, "The Catch" Elway has "the Drive" what does Brady have? "The completion before Vinetari's Kick!"

    Heck, even Ben has "The Game Winning Super Bowl Touchdown Drive" Hellll Bradshaw has the Immaculate Reception, as well as the "Kangaroo Catch" which go more to the receivers but he's there. Holy Roller, Marino has "The Fake Spike"

    I can't think of any single "moment" that defines Brady...Oh wait..."The Tuck Rule"
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    Re: I know we hate Brady...but he's the best QB I have ever seen

    Quote Originally Posted by Dino 6 Rings View Post
    Back on topic...Brady is a great QB but Marino put up disgusting numbers with much less talent around him than Brady has had in his career.

    Quick, name 2 players on the Dolphins with Dan not named Duper or Clayton?

    Marino was a great QB. He lost his only SB apperance to a better QB named Montana.

    But I'll put Tom Brady in the discussion, I'm not a total hater (til we play them again)

    Elway was fantastic as well, big play guy, warrior type QB who never quit and had some of the best drives and moments. What is Brady's "moment"?

    Thats a legit question. Montana has "moments" Memories, "The Catch" Elway has "the Drive" what does Brady have? "The completion before Vinetari's Kick!"

    Heck, even Ben has "The Game Winning Super Bowl Touchdown Drive" Hellll Bradshaw has the Immaculate Reception, as well as the "Kangaroo Catch" which go more to the receivers but he's there. Holy Roller, Marino has "The Fake Spike"

    I can't think of any single "moment" that defines Brady...Oh wait..."The Tuck Rule"


    That is a great point you brought up! Thank you for that perspective. Nothing really stands out or gets me hyped up when it comes to Brady. He is just a system quarterback under Belicheat. THAT'S ALL. Which means that ANYONE can do it like Brady by being a system qb (and without the cheating!!) Let's see just how many Super Bowls boring Marsha can win post-cheating era. Really.
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    Re: I know we hate Brady...but he's the best QB I have ever seen

    Quote Originally Posted by Dino 6 Rings View Post
    Back on topic...Brady is a great QB but Marino put up disgusting numbers with much less talent around him than Brady has had in his career.

    Quick, name 2 players on the Dolphins with Dan not named Duper or Clayton?
    Sammy Winder and Ray Finkle.

    But in all seriousness, the Dolphins of the '80s and '90s are a great comparison to the Patriots today. I think both teams had about the same talent level overall; it's just that today, that talent level wins you championships and in Marino's era, it didn't.

    I mean, think about it for a minute: Other than Brady, the modern Patriots are (and always have been) just as full of anonymous role players as the Dolphins were. That works today because they have a personnel management system that doesn't leave obvious holes, while most other teams have at least some glaring cap-created deficiencies. On top of that, the Patriots' offensive system is geared to exploit those deficiencies. Brady is the perfect fit for that system because he has machinelike efficiency, but I think when they won 10 games with Matt Cassel, it showed that the system has more to do with it than anything else.

    It's not a very inspiring way to play football, and I don't think it would have worked in the Montana-Marino-Elway era because there were always a few "complete" teams like the Bears, Bills, 49ers and Giants standing in your way. So if you tried that type of bullshit, you weren't winning the Super Bowl; just ask Marino or Warren Moon. You don't have complete teams like that anymore, which is why the system stuff works now.

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    Re: I know we hate Brady...but he's the best QB I have ever seen

    lol "Sammy Winder and Ray Finkle."

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    Re: I know we hate Brady...but he's the best QB I have ever seen

    Yeah we know that Brady is good but, let's not forget that 2007 pats looked unreal and, lost the game that counted the most against the Giants.

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    Re: I know we hate Brady...but he's the best QB I have ever seen

    Quote Originally Posted by steel striker View Post
    Yeah we know that Brady is good but, let's not forget that 2007 pats looked unreal and, lost the game that counted the most against the Giants.
    I agree. Championships aren't won in December.

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    Re: I know we hate Brady...but he's the best QB I have ever seen

    Just to put it in another perspective.

    Brady is only one year younger than Peyton Manning.

    Brady has ......34,242 yards passing...a 63.1 completion rate...254 TD's...and a 94.9 QB rating.
    Manning has....54,156 yards passing...a 64.9 completion rate...392 TD's...and a 94.9 QB rating.

    Brady isnt even the best QB while he is playing...much less the best QB ever.
    "I believe the game is designed to reward the ones who hit the hardest. If you can't take it, you shouldn't play"

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    Re: I know we hate Brady...but he's the best QB I have ever seen

    but ... what if he throws for 18,000 yards next year? we all know he's capable of it!

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    Re: I know we hate Brady...but he's the best QB I have ever seen

    Quote Originally Posted by steelreserve View Post
    but ... what if he throws for 18,000 yards next year? we all know he's capable of it!
    "I believe the game is designed to reward the ones who hit the hardest. If you can't take it, you shouldn't play"

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    Re: I know we hate Brady...but he's the best QB I have ever seen

    Quote Originally Posted by LLT View Post
    Just to put it in another perspective.

    Brady is only one year younger than Peyton Manning.

    Brady has ......34,242 yards passing...a 63.1 completion rate...254 TD's...and a 94.9 QB rating.
    Manning has....54,156 yards passing...a 64.9 completion rate...392 TD's...and a 94.9 QB rating.

    Brady isnt even the best QB while he is playing...much less the best QB ever.
    This is even more pathetic when you consider that Brady knew what the defenses were doing some of the time during the cheating years... which strangely enough looks like is still going on...

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    Re: I know we hate Brady...but he's the best QB I have ever seen

    Quote Originally Posted by LLT View Post
    Just to put it in another perspective.

    Brady is only one year younger than Peyton Manning.

    Brady has ......34,242 yards passing...a 63.1 completion rate...254 TD's...and a 94.9 QB rating.
    Manning has....54,156 yards passing...a 64.9 completion rate...392 TD's...and a 94.9 QB rating.

    Brady isnt even the best QB while he is playing...much less the best QB ever.
    Yeah, let's just ignore the fact that Manning started in 1998, 1999, 2000, and 2008 when Brady didn't.

    Tom Brady has started 142 games. Peyton Manning has started 205 games.

  23. #83

    Re: I know we hate Brady...but he's the best QB I have ever seen

    Quote Originally Posted by The Patriot View Post
    Yeah, let's just ignore the fact that Manning started in 1998, 1999, 2000, and 2008 when Brady didn't.

    Tom Brady has started 142 games. Peyton Manning has started 205 games.
    Soooo...your point is: Brady would be just as good as Manning IF he only averaged 5,000 yards a season in those years???

    C'mon...Manning's numbers are the product of what happens when someone is raised from birth to be an NFL QB.....Brady's numers are, at least somewhat, the product of spygate and his reputation inflated by the media.

    The sad fact is that he really is a GREAT quarterback, just not as good as his stats would indicate and not as good as the false god created ny ESPN.
    "I believe the game is designed to reward the ones who hit the hardest. If you can't take it, you shouldn't play"

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    Re: I know we hate Brady...but he's the best QB I have ever seen

    Quote Originally Posted by The Patriot View Post
    Yeah, let's just ignore the fact that Manning started in 1998, 1999, 2000, and 2008 when Brady didn't.

    Tom Brady has started 142 games. Peyton Manning has started 205 games.
    And in those 63 more starts, Manning has thrown for nearly 20,000 more yards (nearly 2/3 of Marsha's total) and 148 more TD passes (also nearly 2/3 of Marsha's total). Those are astounding numbers. So all you did by pointing that out is show that Manning is still the better QB.








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    Re: I know we hate Brady...but he's the best QB I have ever seen

    Quote Originally Posted by LLT View Post
    Soooo...your point is: Brady would be just as good as Manning IF he only averaged 5,000 yards a season in those years???

    C'mon...Manning's numbers are the product of what happens when someone is raised from birth to be an NFL QB.....Brady's numers are, at least somewhat, the product of spygate and his reputation inflated by the media.

    The sad fact is that he really is a GREAT quarterback, just not as good as his stats would indicate and not as good as the false god created ny ESPN.
    Why is that a sad fact?
    Quote Originally Posted by X-Terminator View Post
    And in those 63 more starts, Manning has thrown for nearly 20,000 more yards (nearly 2/3 of Marsha's total) and 148 more TD passes (also nearly 2/3 of Marsha's total). Those are astounding numbers. So all you did by pointing that out is show that Manning is still the better QB.
    Let's put this in perspective.

    Per 100 attempts...

    Manning will complete 65 passes
    Brady will complete 64 passes

    Manning will throw 5.5 touchdowns and 2.7 interceptions
    Brady will throw 5.5 touchdowns and 2.2 interceptions

    Manning will throw for 763 yards
    Brady will throw for 737 yards.

    So per 100 attempts, Manning will basically complete 1 extra pass for 26 yards more than Brady will. IMO, big freaking whoop! That's not big enough a difference to convince me Manning is better, especially when he's been so unsuccessful in the playoffs. Now, you can believe that videotaping signals inflated Brady's stats (that will be the taint of spygate), but I'm tired of people telling me how great Manning stats are.

    If just wracking up numbers is the measure of a quarterback, then Brett Favre is the greatest quarterback of all time.

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    Re: I know we hate Brady...but he's the best QB I have ever seen

    Quote Originally Posted by The Patriot View Post
    Why is that a sad fact?


    Let's put this in perspective.

    Per 100 attempts...

    Manning will complete 65 passes
    Brady will complete 64 passes

    Manning will throw 5.5 touchdowns and 2.7 interceptions
    Brady will throw 5.5 touchdowns and 2.2 interceptions

    Manning will throw for 763 yards
    Brady will throw for 737 yards.

    So per 100 attempts, Manning will basically complete 1 extra pass for 26 yards more than Brady will. IMO, big freaking whoop! That's not big enough a difference to convince me Manning is better, especially when he's been so unsuccessful in the playoffs. Now, you can believe that videotaping signals inflated Brady's stats (that will be the taint of spygate), but I'm tired of people telling me how great Manning stats are.

    If just wracking up numbers is the measure of a quarterback, then Brett Favre is the greatest quarterback of all time.
    If you want to argue that Brady is a better big-game QB, I will not argue that. Hell, Ben has been better in big games than Manning, but I certainly wouldn't say he's the better QB. You also have to consider that Manning put up a lot of his stats playing on some bad teams early in his career. The worst team Brady ever played on finished 9-7. I don't think Brady puts up the same numbers on those teams that Manning did. Not even close. It's a hell of a lot easier to be a great QB when you are playing on great teams, or if you are getting...ahem..."outside help." For that reason alone, I think Manning is and has been the better QB.








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    Re: I know we hate Brady...but he's the best QB I have ever seen

    Quote Originally Posted by X-Terminator View Post
    If you want to argue that Brady is a better big-game QB, I will not argue that. Hell, Ben has been better in big games than Manning, but I certainly wouldn't say he's the better QB. You also have to consider that Manning put up a lot of his stats playing on some bad teams early in his career. The worst team Brady ever played on finished 9-7. I don't think Brady puts up the same numbers on those teams that Manning did. Not even close. It's a hell of a lot easier to be a great QB when you are playing on great teams, or if you are getting...ahem..."outside help." For that reason alone, I think Manning is and has been the better QB.
    That's fine. You should also know that I'm a complete homer when it comes to these types of arguments. A Brady vs Manning discussion! I couldn't resist.

  28. #88
    Senior Member Array title="CanadianSteel is an unknown quantity at this point"> CanadianSteel's Avatar

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    Re: I know we hate Brady...but he's the best QB I have ever seen

    We need to teach our O lineman to hold like the PATS lineman do and not have yellow flags thrown... Can we beat the Pats ... sure but it would take our best game in all 3 phases to do so... We need the bye week or we are done IMO as we need to get full stregnth for a playoff run. Get teh bye boys finish strong, rest up and then worry abpuit playoff match ups
    HERE WE GO STEELERS.... HERE WE GO.....

  29. #89
    Senior Member Array title="zulater has a reputation beyond repute"> zulater's Avatar

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    Re: I know we hate Brady...but he's the best QB I have ever seen

    Brady has lost his last 3 playoff games, including home losses the last two seasons. Old One and done Brady.
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

  30. #90
    Senior Member Array title="BlastFurnace will become famous soon enough"> BlastFurnace's Avatar

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    Re: I know we hate Brady...but he's the best QB I have ever seen

    Quote Originally Posted by Preacher View Post
    If I have said it once, I have said it a million times.

    Brady is illegitimate. His records, his wins, his SB's. EVERYTHING. PERIOD.

    Let me shorthand it this time.

    Brady- Recipient of cheating = flat learning curve. "Oh, Thanks coach, throw the ball to my slot guy cause the blitz is coming and that zone will be open. Gee, thanks."

    Other QB's- "WHAT!!!! WHAT THE #)%@$#$ IS THIS?" Crunch.

    QB's are notorious head cases. Mess with a QB's head, and he just isn't right. Brady got to skip all that... no other QB in the history of the game has. He has not had to have the same battles concerning confidence, ability, etc. simply because he had a very flat learning curve due to cheating. Do I deny that he is playing very well and has the physical tools? Not at all. The thing is, 90% of QB's in the NFL have the same tools Brady has coming out of college. The deciding factor? What happens between the ears. Brady didn't have to worry about it. Hence, its all artificial-and illegitimate.
    Ok Preacher....I repent.

    I'm beginning to see the light in what you are saying. The QB I saw last night was not a great QB at all. I don't remember Ben in a big game look that lost on the field...ever.

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