Why is Jonathan Scott starting? Why is he even in the league?

[zulater]

Nothing personal, but this guy's play is putrid, I've never seen a worse OLT in all my years as a fan. Not only can't he block, but he also has an irratating habit of holding. Sometimes he even completes the rare quinella of holding on the same play that his man molests Ben on.

So you say injury has forced the Steelers hand, they have no choice. I say wrong. Give me Trai Essexx over there. Yeah I know Trai was benched for being a lousy right guard, so how can you imagine him being better at left tackle? Easy, I've seen it with my own eyes, and he generally is better at tackle than at guard. He started 4 games at LT and played well in place of Marvel Smith in 2005. ( Steelers won all 4 games) He started the 2007 playoff game against the Jags and the Steelers had a very productive offensive game. Played for most of the second half of playoff win over Chargers in 2008. And earliar this season he played much of the second half of the Raider game at LT, and didn't give up a sack. and finally how could he be any worse?

I mean Scott, despite only playing about a 1/3 of the offensive snaps, leads the league in holding penalties against with 5 enforced calls?!!? Hell I can't imagine Tony Hills being worse.

Please Steelers coaching staff, take stock of what you have, Essexx is a better option. Please figure that out before Ben is killled.

[SteelerFanInStl]

I agree. Trai has played better at LT and Scott is just terrible.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Scott isnt as bad as your over-reaction, but he isnt really a LT either. He is a guy that should be on the right side and a backup at LT, but not the solution. He and Essex are probably similar in pass protection over there, but I think Essex is carrying too much weight to be effective at LT right now.

Basically, this is what happens when you ignore drafting a quality OT in the draft for the past 7-10 years.

[The Duke]

He is a guy that should be on the right side and a backup at LT, but not the solution

exactly. I just hate the fact that he is the guy protecting our quarterback's blind side

I have been all for essex playing at LT, but the coaches obviously don't see him there. Guess we truly are stuck with a guy that's almost leading the league in holds while only starting like 6 games

get a tackle early next draft, please!

[steelpride12]

First and foremost I agree. Scott is the weakest link on this OL and that surely is an understatement, but at the same time he is on the wrong side of the line AND a back up and that's all he will ever be. It's a sad fact, but right now neither Scott or Essex have filled the role and until we start concentration on that position in the draft or FA we may have to get used to it.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Some bad picks in the past 4 years have compounded things. If the Steelers took Carl Nicks instead of Tony Hills in the 4th, they would have a solid guard and not have had to spend a pick on Kraig Urbik. They instead could have taken Antoine Caldwell as a Center and not needed to spend it this season on Pouncey (who I like a ton) but instead could have spent it on Brian Bulaga.

I know its a stretch to some, but the draft mistakes of Bruce Davis and Tony Hills (who many questioned) kept us from getting :

2008 Carl Nicks in the 4th round
2009 Antoine Caldwell in the 2nd round
2010 Brian Bulaga in the 1st round

Sure Caldwell is no Pouncey, but Nicks and Bulaga are better than Essex, Foster or Scott.

[zulater]

Scott isnt as bad as your over-reaction, but he isnt really a LT either. He is a guy that should be on the right side and a backup at LT, but not the solution. He and Essex are probably similar in pass protection over there, but I think Essex is carrying too much weight to be effective at LT right now.

Basically, this is what happens when you ignore drafting a quality OT in the draft for the past 7-10 years.

My over reaction? You been watching him? He leads the freaking league in holding calls against! This from a player who hasn't played 2/3 of his teams offensive snaps!!! We lose an extra receiver on nearly every passing play because a tight end or back is required to stay in and help with Scott's man. And he can't run block worth a shit either! Want to know why that delayed stretch play never works, because Scott is getting taken right off the snap nearly every play by his man. Saying he sucks doesn't do justice to his play, or lack thereoff.

And if Essexx needs to lose a few pounds to play tackle, then get him a freaking diet and workout regime to make it happen.Just make it happen.

I've got the DVD's of games that Trai started or played extensively at left tackle, and you know what stands out in those games? Not Trai, and in this case that's a good thing.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

My over reaction? You been watching him? He leads the freaking league in holding calls against! This from a player who hasn't played 2/3 of his teams offensive snaps!!! We lose an extra receiver on nearly every passing play because a tight end or back is required to stay in and help with Scott's man. And he can't run block worth a shit either! Want to know why that delayed stretch play never works, because Scott is getting taken right off the snap nearly every play by his man. Saying he sucks doesn't do justice to his play, or lack thereoff.

And if Essexx needs to lose a few pounds to play tackle, then get him a freaking diet and workout regime to make it happen.Just make it happen.

I've got the DVD's of games that Trai started or played extensively at left tackle, and you know what stands out in those games? Not Trai, and in this case that's a good thing.

yes, I think the fact you bolded to emphasize that he has something like 6 holding calls pretty much shows you are overreacting. Maybe some Saints fans are ripping on Jahri Evans for his holding, but I doubt it.

Its not that I think Scott is great or anything........its just the fact that I have watched the Steelers ignore the O line or reach for guys like Trai Essex in the 3rd round (when Nick Kazur, David Stewart, Todd Herremans, Ray Willis, Jason Brown were still available) and that lack of attention has gotten them to this point.

When Tony Hills was drafted, NFL scouting service compared him to Lions OT Jonathon Scott. It just shows how little the Steelers value the O line when they fortify their line by drafting a guy that is compared to an obscure player like Scott. Now they have them both instead choosing to draft some talent.

"We reap what we sow"..........and since the front office has not sown the seeds of OT depth, Ben must avoid "the reaping". (Somebody pickup the M.P. reference in there please.)

[7willBheaven]

One thing I will say...not that it matters...but they said Scott was now 2nd in the league for holding penalties (behind N.O. J. Evans). I too think Essex (or Hills) would be better at LT than Scott. I trust in the coaches apparently know something we dont maybe...we dont know whats going on internally.

As far as the players we could have drafted...in 2009...if we dont make that trade with Denver...do you still think we land Wallace?

[zulater]

yes, I think the fact you bolded to emphasize that he has something like 6 holding calls pretty much shows you are overreacting. Maybe some Saints fans are ripping on Jahri Evans for his holding, but I doubt it.

[/QUOTE]

I think the fact that he leads the league in holding calls despite starting only a handfull of games says I'm not!

As to the rest of your post, it's not really the time to discuss who we could have or should have drafted, that's offseason talk. What I'm interested in is what we have on hand that could possibly rectify the situation to some degree right now! And in my opinion Trai Essex, even if he's not at ideal weight for a left tackle has played with a higher level of competency than Scott is playing at. It would be hard for him not to be an upgrade.

[zulater]

One thing I will say...not that it matters...but they said Scott was now 2nd in the league for holding penalties (behind N.O. J. Evans). I too think Essex (or Hills) would be better at LT than Scott. I trust in the coaches apparently know something we dont maybe...we dont know whats going on internally.

As far as the players we could have drafted...in 2009...if we dont make that trade with Denver...do you still think we land Wallace?

The coaches don't always make the right call. Max Starks was in Tomlin's doghouse for much of 2007, and 2008 and proved to be an upgrade once Tomlin's hand was forced by injuries and he was inserted into the lineup. And go back to Cowher who kept James Harrison on the bench in favor of Clark Haggans, or before that when it was obvious to everyone but the Steelers coaching staff that Deshea Townsend was a better cornerback than Chad Scott.

[HollywoodSteel]

The coaches don't always make the right call. Max Starks was in Tomlin's doghouse for much of 2007, and 2008 and proved to be an upgrade once Tomlin's hand was forced by injuries and he was inserted into the lineup. And go back to Cowher who kept James Harrison on the bench in favor of Clark Haggans, or before that when it was obvious to everyone but the Steelers coaching staff that Deshea Townsend was a better cornerback than Chad Scott.

Everything you're saying has merit, Zu. And it wouldn't shock me to see Tomlin do exactly what you're advocating. He certainly isn't shy about replacing someone when they under perform.

However, I'm inclined to believe that if they don't make that move, there's probably a reason. Essex was always better with speed rushers than power rushers, and if he has gotten fatter and slower, then perhaps the only thing he did half way decent is gone. I know that coaches don't always make the right moves but they do see more than we do, so as a general rule, I'm going to err on the side of their better judgement when it comes to who starts and who sits.

If it is just because Kugler likes Scott, or that Essex is in Tomlin's doghouse for underperforming at guard, that really would be unfortunate. But there's really no way to know if thats the case.

[steelreserve]

Well, what do you expect? Scott ISN'T the starter; he's a backup. He's only playing because Starks is out for the season. Basically, this is why you hope your backups don't have to see extended action -- they're not as good. Sure, I'd like to see him do better than this too, but he's basically the third guy off the bench and it's unrealistic to expect him to perform like a top-20 starter. If we hadn't lost BOTH our tackles, we'd probably have seen Adams tried at LT first, but at this point, as long as at least the RT position is somewhat stable, I don't think they want to risk fucking things up even worse.

Don't know about the need to spend a top draft pick on a tackle next year either. Remember, Starks is coming back. I know, I know. We're not that crazy about him either, but having him as the starter seems to be our plan. If Colon comes back too, then Scott is pretty far down on the list, and I wouldn't be surprised to see us replace him with someone else we take a chance on. But if we draft someone, keep Starks, keep Colon, and have Adams back, then we've got a logjam, so I don't see us doing that unless Colon leaves or Adams retires.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

I think the fact that he leads the league in holding calls despite starting only a handfull of games says I'm not!

As to the rest of your post, it's not really the time to discuss who we could have or should have drafted, that's offseason talk. What I'm interested in is what we have on hand that could possibly rectify the situation to some degree right now! And in my opinion Trai Essex, even if he's not at ideal weight for a left tackle has played with a higher level of competency than Scott is playing at. It would be hard for him not to be an upgrade.[/QUOTE]

I'm just saying to put away the stats because if holding calls are all that matters, most on this board would have had Colon on the bench a few seasons ago when he didnt deserve it. We can talk DVOA and find out that Mewelde Moore was the most efficient RB in the NFL in 2008..........but he wasnt in real life.

Is Scott playing sub par LT?? Yes. Is he as bad as Max Starks was last year against Johathan Fanane(sp?)....No. Is Trai Essex better??? The coaches dont think so and I honestly think they are about even.

So you dont want to discuss who we could have had or should have done until the offseason..........fine. But, realize that the Steelers have drafted chicken $hit over the past decade at OT and you are expecting them to make chicken salad out of it. Scott, Hills, Flozell and Essex are all "has beens and never were's". Its what they have to deal with.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Well, what do you expect? Scott ISN'T the starter; he's a backup. He's only playing because Starks is out for the season. Basically, this is why you hope your backups don't have to see extended action -- they're not as good. Sure, I'd like to see him do better than this too, but he's basically the third guy off the bench and it's unrealistic to expect him to perform like a top-20 starter. If we hadn't lost BOTH our tackles, we'd probably have seen Adams tried at LT first, but at this point, as long as at least the RT position is somewhat stable, I don't think they want to risk fucking things up even worse.

Don't know about the need to spend a top draft pick on a tackle next year either. Remember, Starks is coming back. I know, I know. We're not that crazy about him either, but having him as the starter seems to be our plan. If Colon comes back too, then Scott is pretty far down on the list, and I wouldn't be surprised to see us replace him with someone else we take a chance on. But if we draft someone, keep Starks, keep Colon, and have Adams back, then we've got a logjam, so I don't see us doing that unless Colon leaves or Adams retires.

SR, we have to consider that Colon may leave or not recover from injury completely. I think Chris Scott is the RT of the future though. As you said, Adams may retire or play RT with Scott backing up. Starks will return and be nearing the end of his contract, with some kind of successor needing to be ready, so I bet we draft an OT to get ready in a season or 2.

When Marvel Smith was nearing the end, they at least had a crappy young Max Starks they thought they can put over there......there isnt ever a guy as mediocre as Starks was on this roster now.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

As far as the players we could have drafted...in 2009...if we dont make that trade with Denver...do you still think we land Wallace?

IDK, depends if they wanted Wallace over Keenan Lewis. Remember, they took Urbik, Lewis and Wallace in that order.

[Psycho Ward 86]

I think the fact that he leads the league in holding calls despite starting only a handfull of games says I'm not!

To be fair, he's second to Jahri Evans, who is STILL an All-pro lineman. He's a guard btw, a position where holding is far less frequent, so that says something. Holding isnt always a great measure of blocking skills. A bunch of holding calls doesnt automatically make you suck.....










































...WTF, did I just defend Johnathan Scott?????

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

To be fair, he's second to Jahri Evans, who is STILL an All-pro lineman. He's a guard btw, a position where holding is far less frequent, so that says something. Holding isnt always a great measure of blocking skills. A bunch of holding calls doesnt automatically make you suck.....


...WTF, did I just defend Johnathan Scott?????

Ouch, I think you did.

I still go back to the notion that you need 4 main positions to build a foundation for an NFL team. 1. Franchise QB, 2. Elite Pass rusher, 3. Elite CB, 4. Blue chip LT.

Steelers have not had a quality LT since Marvel Smith's back starting acting up. Before that there was always Wayne Gandy, John Jackson or Leon Searcy for a while. No "starters in waiting" on the O line unfortunately.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Ouch, I think you did.

I still go back to the notion that you need 4 main positions to build a foundation for an NFL team. 1. Franchise QB, 2. Elite Pass rusher, 3. Elite CB, 4. Blue chip LT.

Steelers have not had a quality LT since Marvel Smith's back starting acting up. Before that there was always Wayne Gandy, John Jackson or Leon Searcy for a while. No "starters in waiting" on the O line unfortunately.

On this team, even the practice squad holds a plethora of possible starters

[Craic]

Ouch, I think you did.

I still go back to the notion that you need 4 main positions to build a foundation for an NFL team. 1. Franchise QB, 2. Elite Pass rusher, 3. Elite CB, 4. Blue chip LT.

Steelers have not had a quality LT since Marvel Smith's back starting acting up. Before that there was always Wayne Gandy, John Jackson or Leon Searcy for a while. No "starters in waiting" on the O line unfortunately.

I'm not I'd go with that four as "foundation". I think those are more of the finishing touches. By that I mean, those for things will push you over the final hump to become a challenger for the SB every year, but I don't know if I'd build a team around that to start. IMO, I'd go with the interior three and a RB to start. Then, from that foundation, expand out. Wait for the right QB to come along and snag him. Of course, I am think more of "What if I were to build a team from scratch, how would I do it?" I honestly would start with building the run game-with domination up the middle. That seems to me, the most bang for the buck. TOP, Low turnover (low passing numbers), any QB would be helped because the play-action will be hard not to bite on.

But to your point, there's no way I'd expect to win the SB without the four you list- except maybe the CB. a very good CB playing in a good system is good enough IMO, especially in a zone system. I think Ike is the perfect example.

[Craic]

On this team, even the practice squad holds a plethora of possible starters

As long as the players on the PS have Suddeness and Glide, anything is possible.

[Psycho Ward 86]

As long as the players on the PS have Suddeness and Glide, anything is possible.

Puuuhleez, there's only ONE Issac Redman in Planet Pittsburgh. That's like saying there's 2 different versions of Jesus

[HollywoodSteel]

Looks like you might get your way, Zu.

http://gridironfans.com/forums/lates...eelers-lt.html

[tube517]

Jonathan Scott might have lost his starting job at left tackle to Trai Essex.

"We're still in the process of evaluating [Sunday's] performance and putting together a formula for success this week," Tomlin said. "A lot of things are involved in that. Personnel matchups are part of that. We'll address that at the appropriate time. I'm just not ready to have that kind of discussion at this juncture."

After Scott missed a block on New York's Jason Taylor that resulted in a safety, Essex replaced him at left tackle for the Steelers final, long, ultimately unsuccessful drive of the game.

The Steelers announced that Scott had a "stinger," but Tomlin did not mention him among his injured players



Read more: http://www.pittsburghpostgazette.com...#ixzz18mDMKBgE

[HollywoodSteel]

To be perfectly honest with you, I don't see what difference it makes. The standard is the standard.

[salamander]

To be perfectly honest with you, I don't see what difference it makes. The standard is the standard.

Especially in a hostile environment.

[tube517]

On blades of grass. Such is life in the NFL.

Especially in a hostile environment.

[ALLD]

Scott and Matt Spaeth should go play video games.

[86WARD]

Good chance Trai is starting this week...

[tube517]

Maybe not.

Jonathan Scott will remain the starting left tackle. There was some speculation when Scott was removed from the game for the final drive Sunday and replaced by Trai Essex. Coach Mike Tomlin declined to say on Monday who would start. Scott, who had a "stinger" at the time, is not on the injury list this week. ...
http://www.pittsburghpostgazette.com...1112526-66.stm

Read more: http://www.pittsburghpostgazette.com...#ixzz18okDW28g

Good chance Trai is starting this week...