the truth about OBAMACARE

[7SteelGal43]

Be honest. Even if you support it, can you honestly tell me that the US Govt will be able to cover the cost ? And do you honestly believe coverage and services will live up to expectations ? I happen to know of a lady who is low income and was on medicaid due to age and health problems. She's recently been dropped and Obamacare isn't even in full effect.

And I wonder what happens to hospitals like St Jude Childrens Research Hospital right here in Memphis, TN. When my neice was about 8 or 9, she was diagnosed with leukemia. She went through chemo. She had extended stays in the hospital. She received the best care you could possibly imagine. Better then anywhere in the world could've given her. The total cost to her family for the treatment ? $0. Nobody is turned away because of inability to pay. Those who can pay, do. Or pay what they can. Those who can't still get the best treatment. And it's because of generosity and caring of people, NOT the US Govt.

[Count Steeler]

Unfortunately it is not the US Govt that has to cover the cost, but the US Taxpayers.

This is what frustrates me so much here in Canada. Our health system is NOT free!!!! We pay and we pay and we pay again through unending and ever increasing taxes.

[7SteelGal43]

Unfortunately it is not the US Govt that has to cover the cost, but the US Taxpayers.

This is what frustrates me so much here in Canada. Our health system is NOT free!!!! We pay and we pay and we pay again through unending and ever increasing taxes.

Exactly !!! And I mean after all, American taxpayers aren't nearly taxed enough already.

[Mach1]

Also whats going to happen to the Ronald McDonald houses since McDonald's is deemed to be evil now. People seem to forget about what they give back to people, children and families.

[7SteelGal43]

Also whats going to happen to the Ronald McDonald houses since McDonald's is deemed to be evil now. People seem to forget about what they give back to people, children and families.

yup, there are actually two here in Memphis. meh'....what do you expect from evil Americans ?!

[Count Steeler]

Exactly !!! And I mean after all, American taxpayers aren't nearly taxed enough already.

Sorry 7SteelGal43, on this topic you have to take a backseat to the Canadians in the room. I can only dream of having my taxes reduced to the levels in the US. I mean I come down to Grove City to buy my family clothes and stuff because there is no sales taxes on clothes. Every time I buy something here in Toronto, I have to add 13% to the total for sales taxes. And I have to pay this with money that has already been filtered through the income tax system, which takes about 30% from my pay. Then I have to pay property tax... Sorry I have to stop before I blow a gasket.

[7SteelGal43]

Sorry 7SteelGal43, on this topic you have to take a backseat to the Canadians in the room. I can only dream of having my taxes reduced to the levels in the US. I mean I come down to Grove City to buy my family clothes and stuff because there is no sales taxes on clothes. Every time I buy something here in Toronto, I have to add 13% to the total for sales taxes. And I have to pay this with money that has already been filtered through the income tax system, which takes about 30% from my pay. Then I have to pay property tax... Sorry I have to stop before I blow a gasket.

I yield to your plight, however, we're on a course in the same direction, and with Obama's foot on the gas pedal flooring it, we may catch ya real soon. (God forbid)

[Wallace108]

Just wait until people are FORCED to start paying for health care. The ones who are going to get screwed are the people who are barely making ends meet right now but make too much money to qualify for government assistance. And there are a LOT of people who fit that description.

And wait until companies start dropping workers' insurance. In fact, it's already starting to happen.

This isn't going to be all rainbows and lollipops as some would have us believe.

[Godfather]

Sorry 7SteelGal43, on this topic you have to take a backseat to the Canadians in the room. I can only dream of having my taxes reduced to the levels in the US. I mean I come down to Grove City to buy my family clothes and stuff because there is no sales taxes on clothes. Every time I buy something here in Toronto, I have to add 13% to the total for sales taxes. And I have to pay this with money that has already been filtered through the income tax system, which takes about 30% from my pay. Then I have to pay property tax... Sorry I have to stop before I blow a gasket.

We're not much better off than you are. Our nominal rates look better but we have a lot of hidden taxes on the employer side. If you add income tax and FICA/Medicare (including the employer match), FUTA, SUTA, workers comp, etc., most of us are getting hit as bad. Then in Mississippi you have an additional 5% state income tax and a 7% sales tax with no exemption for groceries.

Soon we'll have Obamacare too, and since you're forced to buy insurance it's a tax. To claim otherwise is Enron accounting...and as a bonus, they force you to buy a bunch of wasteful coverage to make it even more expensive.

[Count Steeler]

Hey Godfather. Trust me, we have the hidden employer taxes as well.

How stupid can the government be to tax employment? What is the main goal in the economy? Jobs. We hear it all the time. No one can argue that taxes are a disincentive, so why tax employment? Employers should be encouraged, not discouraged from hiring. Dumb, dumb, dumb.

[7SteelGal43]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101024/...r_health_plans

FILE - In this Jan. 13, 2010, file photo Democratic Tennessee Gov. Phil Bredesen speaks in Nashville, Tenn. The new health care law wasn't supposed to undercut employer plans that have provided most people in the U.S. with coverage for generations. But said Bredesen, 'The economics of dropping existing coverage is about to become very attractive to many employers, both public and private.'

[The WH]

::shouting from atop tax mountain, Sweden:: see you all here soon. nice view...iew...iew...iew

[The WH]

How stupid can the government be to tax employment? What is the main goal in the economy? Jobs. We hear it all the time. No one can argue that taxes are a disincentive, so why tax employment? Employers should be encouraged, not discouraged from hiring. Dumb, dumb, dumb.

If there is ANYTHING in the Swedish taxation system that I simply detest it's this. 33% Job-Giver Tax. No-fucking-Wonder companies in Sweden go to Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania....etc...

If you eliminate job taxes the Social Democrats here would say ''well where would the taxes come from then´´ If you eliminate or reduce job taxes employers would be more inclined to hire more employees, you get to tax their wages AND you also take them off government assitance (which they were probably on) So if they end up paying 3000 cockandballs (the Swedish Crown is a :- symbol) in wage taxes instead of sucking up 8000 cockandballs in unemployment even if you eliminate the 3000 cockandballs the employer would have paid you still come out on top with 2000 extra.

[beSteelmyheart]

Just wait until people are FORCED to start paying for health care. The ones who are going to get screwed are the people who are barely making ends meet right now but make too much money to qualify for government assistance. And there are a LOT of people who fit that description.

And wait until companies start dropping workers' insurance. In fact, it's already starting to happen.

This isn't going to be all rainbows and lollipops as some would have us believe.

That would be me...But our company didn't drop our insurance-it went up, like it does every year And this year I finally had to drop it-I'm making 32 hours a week & just can't afford it anymore.

[The WH]

I think this would have been a good bill if they would have said ''Any Healthcare for all children 18 and under, aside from medications, is free. If in a calendar year a person has to spend more than 300 on medications either for an adult or for a child, the federal government will pick up the tab for the remainder of that calendar year''

let the flaming begin....

[GoSlash27]

I think this would have been a good bill if they would have said ''Any Healthcare for all children 18 and under, aside from medications, is free. If in a calendar year a person has to spend more than 300 on medications either for an adult or for a child, the federal government will pick up the tab for the remainder of that calendar year''

let the flaming begin....

*leafing through my copy of the Constitution*...
Sorry, I can't find the part where it says they're allowed to do that.

Lemme check with Madison. James?
"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents."
Thanks, Jim.

[Count Steeler]

I think this would have been a good bill if they would have said ''Any Healthcare for all children 18 and under, aside from medications, is free. If in a calendar year a person has to spend more than 300 on medications either for an adult or for a child, the federal government will pick up the tab for the remainder of that calendar year''

let the flaming begin....

And you will be at the front of the line, paying your taxes cheerfully and encouraging your citizenry that increased wealth is bad, increased taxation is good. You, along with your fellow citizens donate your money through taxes to pay for your "free" system.

[Wallace108]

"To take from one because it is thought that his own industry and
that of his father's has acquired too much, in order to spare to
others, who, or whose fathers have not exercised equal industry
and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of
association--the guarantee to every one of a free exercise of his
industry and the fruits acquired by it."

- Thomas Jefferson: Note in Tracy's "Political Economy," 1816.

[7SteelGal43]

"To take from one because it is thought that his own industry and
that of his father's has acquired too much, in order to spare to
others, who, or whose fathers have not exercised equal industry
and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of
association--the guarantee to every one of a free exercise of his
industry and the fruits acquired by it."

- Thomas Jefferson: Note in Tracy's "Political Economy," 1816.

Truly brilliant stuff. You payin' attention Obamie ?

[GBMelBlount]

If a government (monopoly) could produce a better product at a better price than people in a free and competitive market, I would be ALL for it.

Unfortunately, I am not sure that has ever happened.

[GBMelBlount]

That would be me...But our company didn't drop our insurance-it went up, like it does every year And this year I finally had to drop it-I'm making 32 hours a week & just can't afford it anymore.

I am sorry to hear that Steel. It is tough everywhere it seems...Our insurance/medical costs are over $20,000 per year.

[The WH]

And you will be at the front of the line, paying your taxes cheerfully and encouraging your citizenry that increased wealth is bad, increased taxation is good. You, along with your fellow citizens donate your money through taxes to pay for your "free" system.

Hey man, if paying high taxes means that when one of my kids gets sick it's guaranteed 100% that they'll get taken care, I'll pay high taxes. If it means that I'm not going to see you, me, or anyone else have to set up ''please help me'' or ''please help my sick, dying child because we can't afford their Chemotherapy costs'' jars at 7-11 i'll pay high taxes.

I'd sacrifice an extra 400$ (how much I pay a month in taxes here) a month in taxes instead of 350$ (what I paid per month for health insurance BEFORE my daughter was born) a month for health insurance to ensure my kids AND your kids are always going to get the care they need when they get sick without a doubt.

[The WH]

That would be me...But our company didn't drop our insurance-it went up, like it does every year And this year I finally had to drop it-I'm making 32 hours a week & just can't afford it anymore.

Republico the Elephant says



32 hours a week? I guess that means you can find a second job to fill in the othe 28 you should be working....

[GBMelBlount]

Hey man.....If it means that I'm not going to see you, me, or anyone else have to set up ''please help me'' or ''please help my sick, dying child because we can't afford their Chemotherapy costs'' jars at 7-11 i'll pay high taxes.

Well WH, I doubt there is not a person on this board that does not understand your point emotionally....and it having a 10 year old daughter, it certainly hits home with me.

That being said, having a financial analysis and economics background I ALWAYS have to look at the numbers and costs for each benefit...and the costs for this, I am guessing will end up being very high over the long term.

Point is there are ostensibly a lot of good things the government does BUT unfortunately, because the government is a monopoly that operates on other peoples money and has virtually no accountability, the aggregate costs for all of these terribly managed programs has broken the financial back of our country.

So yes, your point tugs at my heart strings but in reality the numbers never seem to end up working and the tax payer is ALWAYS on the hook.

[The WH]

I see your point. Though I think your damned if the government controls it and your damned if the healthcare consortiums control it. either way....everyone is on the hook.

[7SteelGal43]

Hey man, if paying high taxes means that when one of my kids gets sick it's guaranteed 100% that they'll get taken care, I'll pay high taxes. If it means that I'm not going to see you, me, or anyone else have to set up ''please help me'' or ''please help my sick, dying child because we can't afford their Chemotherapy costs'' jars at 7-11 i'll pay high taxes.

I'd sacrifice an extra 400$ (how much I pay a month in taxes here) a month in taxes instead of 350$ (what I paid per month for health insurance BEFORE my daughter was born) a month for health insurance to ensure my kids AND your kids are always going to get the care they need when they get sick without a doubt.

WH, let's be real. When the funds run low, one of two things has to happen. Tax the people even more to meet the costs or cut services. I'm sure the first thing they'll do is tax the people more, but then you can only squeeze so much out of them. So of course they'll have to cut services. Please tell me if there is anything untrue about what I just said or if you believe neither of those things will happen? Please tell me if you believe that Obamacare (or anything like it for that matter) will mean slightly higher taxes and "free" healthcare for every man woman and child in America.

[Count Steeler]

I see your point. Though I think your damned if the government controls it and your damned if the healthcare consortiums control it. either way....everyone is on the hook.

One thing that bothers me about the government controlling it is that it has not worked well anywhere it is tried. Here in Canada, one of the main issues of an election about 10 years ago was the debate on a two tier health system. The government run one for the peons and a private one for those willing to pay out extra money. The Liberals supported government controlled throughout, the Conservatives supported 2 tier. The Liberals won, but we are still headed to a two tier system because the government run system sucks. Long waiting times, misdiagnoses, lack of MRI, lack of modern equipment.

To keep it short, my dad, recently deceased, was misdiagnosed. He had a growth on his cheek and the doctor removed the growth (after 2 months). The growth was cancerous but the doctor missed it. The growth came back worse than at first and was rescheduled for surgery 6 months later. He did not make it to his surgery date. Yes his surgery would have been "free", too bad it took so long to schedule. What good is free healthcare when it can't be delivered in a timely manner. Yes your child's treatments may be free, but will they get the treatment in time?

Another thing you have to remember, your health care system is good now, because it has been mainly private. If the government takes over, it will remain good for a while, but decay and bureaucracy will soon take over and wait times will start to lengthen, services will diminish, some services will be delisted from the free list, more money will make its way to administration and not patient care, and on and on.

[GBMelBlount]

I see your point. Though I think your damned if the government controls it and your damned if the healthcare consortiums control it. either way....everyone is on the hook.

Understand. Without a doubt health care costs were / are out of control.

What is the best solution...imo, in a perfect world it would be a free and competitive market without major barriers to entry or limitations on consumers, that is PROPERLY regulated by government.

[GBMelBlount]

To keep it short, my dad, recently deceased, was misdiagnosed. He had a growth on his cheek and the doctor removed the growth (after 2 months). The growth was cancerous but the doctor missed it. The growth came back worse than at first and was rescheduled for surgery 6 months later. He did not make it to his surgery date. Yes his surgery would have been "free", too bad it took so long to schedule. What good is free healthcare when it can't be delivered in a timely manner. Yes your child's treatments may be free, but will they get the treatment in time?

Another thing you have to remember, your health care system is good now, because it has been mainly private. If the government takes over, it will remain good for a while, but decay and bureaucracy will soon take over and wait times will start to lengthen, services will diminish, some services will be delisted from the free list, more money will make its way to administration and not patient care, and on and on.

First of all Carnoj, let me say I am sorry for your loss...and secondly I do agree with the spirit of what you are saying here and I personally believe it will likely be our LONG TERM consequences as well. Problem is that by the time people realize how bad it is, it is already too late. Then we will have a terrible system that is tax payer funded and then a second one the people that can afford it will have to pay extra for to get quality care like we have now.

[Count Steeler]

First of all Carnoj, let me say I am sorry for your loss...and secondly I do agree with the spirit of what you are saying here and I personally believe it will likely be our LONG TERM consequences as well. Problem is that by the time people realize how bad it is, it is already too late. Then we will have a terrible system that is tax payer funded and then a second one the people that can afford it will have to pay extra for to get quality care like we have now.

You got it GB. Thanks for your words.