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Thread: Vikes & Steelers are The Same Team

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    Vikes & Steelers are The Same Team

    Shitty winning season coaches and crap has been's and never was at QB. Don't feel bad Steeler Nation you have another clone team and fans that feel your pain.

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    Re: Vikes & Steelers are The Same Team

    They collapse and shit the bed almost as bad as us, no fight in their players as well and their coach is and has been a dipshit. But Coach of the year and he won 14 games!

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    Re: Vikes & Steelers are The Same Team

    Rams are sneaky dangerous. They have the offense to light up any team in the NFL. They put 40+ on the Bills and won.

    However, they gave up more points than they scored so they will have to turn every game into greatest show on turf

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    Re: Vikes & Steelers are The Same Team

    Not even close. Vikings have a much better offensive roster aside from Sam Darnold. Looks like the fairytale clock ran out on him a couple weeks ago…lol


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    Re: Vikes & Steelers are The Same Team

    Vikings have a better skill position roster. ButbQB and line are suspect.

    I posted this on another thread but I'll add it here as well.

    During the regular season the Vikings were everything many Steelers fans say they want. All buzzy scheme success on offense and defense.

    But that was all resting on propping up a reclamation product at QB. Then their o line got hurt and teams started attacking Darnold. Hit a stretch of other quality playoff teams and it fell apart.

    Without a QB; there's nothing a team can do. You're not playing the same sport as the teams with good QBs.

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    Re: Vikes & Steelers are The Same Team

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Vikings have a better skill position roster. ButbQB and line are suspect.

    I posted this on another thread but I'll add it here as well.

    During the regular season the Vikings were everything many Steelers fans say they want. All buzzy scheme success on offense and defense.

    But that was all resting on propping up a reclamation product at QB. Then their o line got hurt and teams started attacking Darnold. Hit a stretch of other quality playoff teams and it fell apart.

    Without a QB; there's nothing a team can do. You're not playing the same sport as the teams with good QBs.


    Everybody would like to have a superior scheme. It gives teams an advantage that can even be effective with slightly less talent.

    Not all schemes are created equal, and not all coaches are able to create and adjust schemes to work with the talent they have or diagnose what other teams are trying to do to them.

    This is why McVay is considered such a great coach. He is able to use his great schemes and determine how best able to attack other teams and come up with a game plan to do so. Not everyone is capable of doing it at his level, and that is why his scheme and coaching tree are in demand.

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    Re: Vikes & Steelers are The Same Team

    Quote Originally Posted by pczach View Post
    Everybody would like to have a superior scheme. It gives teams an advantage that can even be effective with slightly less talent.

    Not all schemes are created equal, and not all coaches are able to create and adjust schemes to work with the talent they have or diagnose what other teams are trying to do to them.

    This is why McVay is considered such a great coach. He is able to use his great schemes and determine how best able to attack other teams and come up with a game plan to do so. Not everyone is capable of doing it at his level, and that is why his scheme and coaching tree are in demand.
    I agree with all that. BUT...even all these scheme wizard guys are not winning much in the poststeason without high end QB play. Many are getting it through supporting "lesser" QBs during the regular season and then the wheels come off in the playoffs. Interestingly....Smith is technically on this in-demand coaching tree.


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    Re: Vikes & Steelers are The Same Team

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    I agree with all that. BUT...even all these scheme wizard guys are not winning much in the poststeason without high end QB play. Many are getting it through supporting "lesser" QBs during the regular season and then the wheels come off in the playoffs. Interestingly....Smith is technically on this in-demand coaching tree.




    Of course.

    Just because they learned under a great coach doesn't mean that all those descendants are going to be great coaches. It's just that being in a great scheme is a great base to start with. What they do with that scheme and its implementation, the talent the team is able to provide for them to use in those schemes, and the ability to also identify a quality OC(if they don't handle that themselves), DC, and assistant coaches are all a large part of the success or failure of the entire operation.

    Just like any person in charge, your own performance is largely judged by how the people under you perform.

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    Re: Vikes & Steelers are The Same Team

    Quote Originally Posted by pczach View Post
    Of course.

    Just because they learned under a great coach doesn't mean that all those descendants are going to be great coaches. It's just that being in a great scheme is a great base to start with. What they do with that scheme and its implementation, the talent the team is able to provide for them to use in those schemes, and the ability to also identify a quality OC(if they don't handle that themselves), DC, and assistant coaches are all a large part of the success or failure of the entire operation.

    Just like any person in charge, your own performance is largely judged by how the people under you perform.
    But what if the Rams had Rudolph instead of Stafford?

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    Re: Vikes & Steelers are The Same Team

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    But what if the Rams had Rudolph instead of Stafford?
    Multiple Super Bowls


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    Re: Vikes & Steelers are The Same Team

    Quote Originally Posted by tube517 View Post
    Rams are sneaky dangerous. They have the offense to light up any team in the NFL. They put 40+ on the Bills and won.

    However, they gave up more points than they scored so they will have to turn every game into greatest show on turf

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    Their defense looked really good last night though but I don't know if that was because the Vikings shit the bed or they are really good. As much shit as Darnold is getting, he really was under constant pressure and the Vikings OL looked as bad as the Steelers. When Darnold got time he did find receivers open. The Vikings horrible defense cost them that game though. Once the Rams got a big lead, just like the Ravens, they just started sending the house at Darnold with a banged up OL he didn't stand a chance.

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    Re: Vikes & Steelers are The Same Team

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    But what if the Rams had Rudolph instead of Stafford?

    He would win as well. He just never had a chance here!

    Sorry. It had to be done!

    Of course the QB matters. It always does. The Rams aren't winning anything with Mason Rudolph as their quarterback, but even the great McVay didn't put Jared Goff in the position to play at a high enough level in his scheme. He traded Goff for Stafford and the rest is history. Goff went to a place that wanted him and embraced him. The OC got to know him, evaluate him, and then he put him in a great scheme that perfectly fits his physical and mental gifts, and using great creativity in play design and excellent play calling to get the most out of him so that the offense is an efficient machine.

    Coaches can be rigid. Players can be difficult to figure out. Shit happens.

    All we know is that having a high-end QB is the fastest path to big success and a chance at championships.

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    Re: Vikes & Steelers are The Same Team

    Tomlin's tree:


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    Re: Vikes & Steelers are The Same Team

    Quote Originally Posted by tube517 View Post
    Rams are sneaky dangerous. They have the offense to light up any team in the NFL. They put 40+ on the Bills and won.

    However, they gave up more points than they scored so they will have to turn every game into greatest show on turf

    Sent from my Pixel 9 Pro XL using Tapatalk
    The only way to contain a greatest show on turf is to film their walk througs,as we all know.

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    Re: Vikes & Steelers are The Same Team

    Quote Originally Posted by pczach View Post
    He would win as well. He just never had a chance here!

    Sorry. It had to be done!

    Of course the QB matters. It always does. The Rams aren't winning anything with Mason Rudolph as their quarterback, but even the great McVay didn't put Jared Goff in the position to play at a high enough level in his scheme. He traded Goff for Stafford and the rest is history. Goff went to a place that wanted him and embraced him. The OC got to know him, evaluate him, and then he put him in a great scheme that perfectly fits his physical and mental gifts, and using great creativity in play design and excellent play calling to get the most out of him so that the offense is an efficient machine.

    Coaches can be rigid. Players can be difficult to figure out. Shit happens.

    All we know is that having a high-end QB is the fastest path to big success and a chance at championships.
    Actually, McVay's Rams did get to a Super Bowl with Goff at QB.

    This makes the Lions an interesting test this year. Goff isn't a great QB. Can the Lions get to/win a Super Bowl with him at QB?

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    Re: Vikes & Steelers are The Same Team

    What I took awy from last nights game was sheety offensive line play makes for ugly sheety offensive performance, regardless of the color of your jersey

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    Re: Vikes & Steelers are The Same Team

    Quote Originally Posted by El Kabong View Post
    Actually, McVay's Rams did get to a Super Bowl with Goff at QB.

    This makes the Lions an interesting test this year. Goff isn't a great QB. Can the Lions get to/win a Super Bowl with him at QB?


    I know he did, but McVay didn't think he was good enough and traded for someone he thought was a much better player. Even the great McVay couldn't help Goff get the level he is playing at now with the Lions. Goff is playing at a championship level within that offense. If it weren't for the incredible number of injuries on the defensive side of the ball they would be the prohibitive favorite to win the Super Bowl this season, and Goff is a huge reason why. He has been incredible.

    Goff outplayed every quarterback he went up against in the playoffs last year.

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    Re: Vikes & Steelers are The Same Team

    Having a high-end quarterback is one thing, but that high-end quarterback can only do so much. The coach also has to do his job to set him up for success. Jared Goff and Matt Stafford would do little or next to nothing under Mike Tomlin. He needs a unicorn talent to ride on to have any success and cover up his deficiencies. Well, good luck, Unicorns don't grow on trees.

    Our "strategy" is to stick someone in there and there you go, just use your natural-born unicorn talent and hope to win. Hope sadly isn't a strategy.

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    Re: Vikes & Steelers are The Same Team

    Quote Originally Posted by Edman View Post
    Having a high-end quarterback is one thing, but that high-end quarterback can only do so much. The coach also has to do his job to set him up for success. Jared Goff and Matt Stafford would do little or next to nothing under Mike Tomlin. He needs a unicorn talent to ride on to have any success and cover up his deficiencies. Well, good luck, Unicorns don't grow on trees.

    Our "strategy" is to stick someone in there and there you go, just use your natural-born unicorn talent and hope to win. Hope sadly isn't a strategy.

    I don't disagree that Tomlin is not good with average to fair QBs. But I do disagree that Stafford and Goff would do nothing under Tomlin (Stafford more than Goff. Stafford has the credentials to make a Hall of Fame argument. I don't think he will make it, but he has an argument). Good to great QBs don't need a head coach looking over their shoulder. Tomlin stayed out of Big Ben's way during his career, and he was successful. Yes, we had the terrible playoff losses to the jags and Broncos. I don't think those losses had anything to do with Tomlin interfering with Ben's natural skills. Two things can be true at the same time. Tomlin is responsible for his poor playoff performance. And, if the Steelers had a franchise talent QB they would likely break the run of playoff losses.

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    Re: Vikes & Steelers are The Same Team

    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
    Multiple Super Bowls
    If he only had Pickett

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    Re: Vikes & Steelers are The Same Team

    Quote Originally Posted by oneforthetoe View Post
    I don't disagree that Tomlin is not good with average to fair QBs. But I do disagree that Stafford and Goff would do nothing under Tomlin (Stafford more than Goff. Stafford has the credentials to make a Hall of Fame argument. I don't think he will make it, but he has an argument). Good to great QBs don't need a head coach looking over their shoulder. Tomlin stayed out of Big Ben's way during his career, and he was successful. Yes, we had the terrible playoff losses to the jags and Broncos. I don't think those losses had anything to do with Tomlin interfering with Ben's natural skills. Two things can be true at the same time. Tomlin is responsible for his poor playoff performance. And, if the Steelers had a franchise talent QB they would likely break the run of playoff losses.
    The common denominator in all the playoff losses is the Highest paid Defensive unit being butt trash. I don't know if a quarterback can fix stop the Ravens from running 300+, but then again, we're keeping Mike Tomlin, so its a washout regardless.

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    Re: Vikes & Steelers are The Same Team

    The 1970s Steelers were the evolution of the 1971-73 Miami Dolphins.

    The 2024 Steelers remind me of either the 1940 French Army or the 2003 Iraqi Army. They should do 100 laps carrying white flags in training camp.

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    Re: Vikes & Steelers are The Same Team

    Quote Originally Posted by Edman View Post
    The common denominator in all the playoff losses is the Highest paid Defensive unit being butt trash. I don't know if a quarterback can fix stop the Ravens from running 300+, but then again, we're keeping Mike Tomlin, so its a washout regardless.
    That is a common denominator in the losses to the Ravens, Bills and Chiefs. It is not a common denominator in the losses to the Jags and Broncos. Those were not highly paid defenses relative to the offenses. We had a franchise QB on his second and third contract, a highly paid offensive line and well-paid Hines Ward - for part of that time.

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    Re: Vikes & Steelers are The Same Team

    To get to a SB? Vikes are closer. They just need a Qb basically. I will say the Steelers have a promising young O line. Thats the basic building block of a winning team. A few pieces on D, although Cam, Minkah and Watt have all seen better days. I just see this rebuild happening under a whole new coaching staff. Tomlin can tread water for one or two more years…

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    Re: Vikes & Steelers are The Same Team

    I think if Tomlin gives the same word salad to the players as he gives in press conferences he might be losing some of the serious talent. They need to get down to business and consistency rather than stroking egos and checking line item stats.
    All Defense!

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    Re: Vikes & Steelers are The Same Team

    Quote Originally Posted by ALLD View Post
    I think if Tomlin gives the same word salad to the players as he gives in press conferences he might be losing some of the serious talent. They need to get down to business and consistency rather than stroking egos and checking line item stats.
    if were talking about this players coach business, this type of coaching doesnt breed success. Players have to just buy into the game plan and respect the coach. A coach shouldn't be their buddy. Honestly Flores seemed like that, Noll was like that. I’d like to see them bring in an offense based guy who knows his stuff and will insure the players master the game plan; know where their supposed to be and handle their assignments. No cute press conferences. A guy like pickens, probably would know not to test a more serious type coach, honestly cause he wouldn't last a minute.

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    Re: Vikes & Steelers are The Same Team

    NFL coaches don't have the 'authority' over players like they do in school. Yes, he's the boss, but he's also an employee. The coach doesn't always have free rein to do what he wants with the different personalities on a football team. He can't make a player stay after practice and run up downs for instance. Guys workout when and where they want. There's an NFLPA that limits that 'authority', things written into contracts, players can actually tell coaches to go to hell and coaches can do very little to nothing about it.

    When an NFL coach is a players coach it's not the same meaning as with college coaches. Players/coach relationships in the NFL are very much individualized and more personal. Plus, different players respond and learn in different ways so the coaching/teaching is much more specialized and personalized.

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    Re: Vikes & Steelers are The Same Team

    Quote Originally Posted by Born2Steel View Post
    NFL coaches don't have the 'authority' over players like they do in school. Yes, he's the boss, but he's also an employee. The coach doesn't always have free rein to do what he wants with the different personalities on a football team. He can't make a player stay after practice and run up downs for instance. Guys workout when and where they want. There's an NFLPA that limits that 'authority', things written into contracts, players can actually tell coaches to go to hell and coaches can do very little to nothing about it.

    When an NFL coach is a players coach it's not the same meaning as with college coaches. Players/coach relationships in the NFL are very much individualized and more personal. Plus, different players respond and learn in different ways so the coaching/teaching is much more specialized and personalized.
    Great Post. This is so true. This idea that you can impose disciple on "the men" is just an easy argument fans use to explain the short comings of their teams. You listed the reasons, and I won't rehash them. I'd just add that even back in the day, when fans think there was this draconian discipline in the league, it was more show than reality. Think of the story of Max McGee, the wr for the Packers who was one of the heroes of the first Super Bowl. No bigger image of discipline in the early NFL of Vince Lombardi. Yet, McGee, thinking he wouldn't be playing, breaks curfew to party with some stewardesses and ends up actually playing well in the game. In his own words he was still drunk. I think it was unlikely Max was the only player who did that. It's also unlikely that Lombardi was completely oblivoius that his players broke curfew.

    Want more examples? Apparently, the 85 Bears players were partying like it was "1999" in Miami before their only loss of the season to the Dolphins. But wait? I thought Ditka was a tough guy who didn't let his players get away with anything. I'm equally sure that Bill Parcells was more than aware of Lawernce Taylor's extra-curricular activities but lived by the rule of different rules for different players.

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    Re: Vikes & Steelers are The Same Team

    Quote Originally Posted by oneforthetoe View Post
    Great Post. This is so true. This idea that you can impose disciple on "the men" is just an easy argument fans use to explain the short comings of their teams. You listed the reasons, and I won't rehash them. I'd just add that even back in the day, when fans think there was this draconian discipline in the league, it was more show than reality. Think of the story of Max McGee, the wr for the Packers who was one of the heroes of the first Super Bowl. No bigger image of discipline in the early NFL of Vince Lombardi. Yet, McGee, thinking he wouldn't be playing, breaks curfew to party with some stewardesses and ends up actually playing well in the game. In his own words he was still drunk. I think it was unlikely Max was the only player who did that. It's also unlikely that Lombardi was completely oblivoius that his players broke curfew.

    Want more examples? Apparently, the 85 Bears players were partying like it was "1999" in Miami before their only loss of the season to the Dolphins. But wait? I thought Ditka was a tough guy who didn't let his players get away with anything. I'm equally sure that Bill Parcells was more than aware of Lawernce Taylor's extra-curricular activities but lived by the rule of different rules for different players.
    The Jimmy Johnson era Cowboys moved more weight than some cartels.

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    Re: Vikes & Steelers are The Same Team

    Of course there are still different coaching styles. Not that much has changed. Spending time on skills outside of practice was never enforceable, even in Noll’s time. Whats important is what was focused on and emphasized in practices. Noll always emphasized the fundamentals, routine plays. Does Tomlin? We see missed assignments, some guys loafing on plays, the steelers not taking care of business and losing to teams they shouldnt lose to. This has been happening for years. Bradshaw always said he didnt like Noll but he respected him, and he knew that if he followed Noll’s direction it would lead to wins. The team bought into Nolls plan. I dont see that collective buy in now. Some guys are playing hard, but some are not. Then we see the missed assignments and confusion on D, questionable playcalling on Offense. That is the responsibility of Tomlin’s coordinators, and Tomlin himself.

    Noll left 11 years after his last super bowl victory. Its been 14 years since Tomlin’s last Super bowl appearance. And we havent gotten close since. And Tomlin had a heck of alot more talent in that span than Noll did.

    Its just getting to be that time for a change. Im totally convinced were not going anywhere under this coach.

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