Media and Content Farm Reactions

[Mojouw]

This stuff is hilarious. I've been laughing out loud at some of it.

Most of it goes in a circle proving either morons wrote it or chatbots with no edits.

You can't win without a QB. Tomlin wins without a QB. Playoff losses are bad. No one wins in the playoffs without a QB. Why doesn't Tomlin win without a QB? The Steelers need a plan to draft high to get a QB. The Steelers need to win more games and draft lower!

It's like reading someone arguing with themselves.

My new favorite is that if the Steelers had just fired Tomlin last year and hired Joe Brady as a head coach; they'd be an offensive juggernaut now.

Huh? Joe Brady won with one of the most stacked college teams of all time, then fell flat with the Panthers, and is doing good calling plays for one of the best QBs on the planet. Sure. Let's just hand that guy the job. Have him gin up a devastating offensive system helmed by Gardner Mishnew or something.

Unless Brady is bringing Josh Allen with him; I'd pass.

I'm sure the ideas will just keep getting better.

Mike McCarthy's available!

[fansince'76]

Mike McCarthy's available!

So is Doug Pederson - wasn't he a "genius" back around 2018 or so?

[Mojouw]

So is Doug Pederson - wasn't he a "genius" back around 2018 or so?

Like it might be time for Tomlin to go but the list of replacements are mostly hilarious.

Hopefully the decision makers for the team have better ideas than the content farm robots.

[Mojouw]

Oh. Just found a new favorite take.

Cam Heyward and TJ Watt quit. That's it. Thats the take. They gave up.

[fansince'76]

Oh. Just found a new favorite take.

Cam Heyward and TJ Watt quit. That's it. Thats the take. They gave up.

I'm sure "Still Mill" has posted some gems as well.

[Mojouw]

I'm sure "Still Mill" has posted some gems as well.

It's amazing to me how much of NFL "analysis" is just people talking about their feelings.

These networks and websites will pay anyone with a pulse to talk about the NFL and all they can come up with is "vibes" as explanations for everything

No wonder it's impossible to actually talk about football things in any detail. All the coverage is just drama club for dudes nonsense.

And if your gonna do the "they quit" narrative; find some better examples. Cam Heyward was tossing o linemen a decade younger than him around deep into the game. A better one would be the great disappearing act of Larry O.

[Dwinsgames]

Like it might be time for Tomlin to go but the list of replacements are mostly hilarious.

Hopefully the decision makers for the team have better ideas than the content farm robots.

who you gonna get to replace Noll was the argument ......
who you gonna get to replace Cowher was the argument ......

now its

who you gonna get to replace Tomlin is the argument ......


moral of the story there is always someone and their MO is to find a up and coming YOUNG defensive minded coach, their process has worked out pretty well 3 Head coaches in over a half century ....

who would be the next guy IDK , never seen Cowher coming or Tomlin and was to young to give the Noll hiring much of a thought

[Mojouw]

who you gonna get to replace Noll was the argument ......
who you gonna get to replace Cowher was the argument ......

now its

who you gonna get to replace Tomlin is the argument ......


moral of the story there is always someone and their MO is to find a up and coming YOUNG defensive minded coach, their process has worked out pretty well 3 Head coaches in over a half century ....

who would be the next guy IDK , never seen Cowher coming or Tomlin and was to young to give the Noll hiring much of a thought

Not saying there isn't an excellent choice out there. Just saying I.hope whoever is making that choice has better ideas than the horrible ones the internet is vomiting forth.

[Dwinsgames]

Not saying there isn't an excellent choice out there. Just saying I.hope whoever is making that choice has better ideas than the horrible ones the internet is vomiting forth.

this I will 100% agree with

[Mojouw]

this I will 100% agree with

There was a pretty cool breakdown out there I cam across. I think Mike Sando did it. Basically he lays out a really convincing argument that hiring the "hotshot offensive coach" is largely a fool's errand. Especially when you have no QB to pair said hotshot with. Looks at how, historically, the path to success has been to build a culture with a tone setting coach, get the QB, and then add in the coordinator(s) as needed.

And for me, that is the weird circle the Steelers find themselves in. Their ideal outcome if they move off of Tomlin is to essentially hire (a) Tomlin. BUT...without the QB....that coach is going to have ceiling on their success.....of about 9-10 wins and a Wildcard whimper...again looking at recent league wide trends.

So....that basically leaves us realizing that without a path to a "solution" at QB....none of this really matters.

[pczach]

It's amazing to me how much of NFL "analysis" is just people talking about their feelings.

These networks and websites will pay anyone with a pulse to talk about the NFL and all they can come up with is "vibes" as explanations for everything

No wonder it's impossible to actually talk about football things in any detail. All the coverage is just drama club for dudes nonsense.

And if your gonna do the "they quit" narrative; find some better examples. Cam Heyward was tossing o linemen a decade younger than him around deep into the game. A better one would be the great disappearing act of Larry O.

I almost broke my TV when I saw a play where Larry O was standing right in front of a running back being held by a teammate in the hope of tackling him. Larry O literally stepped to the side with nobody touching him and allowed the runner to fight for 2 more yards with no effort to stop him or help his teammate. And that was with the game still in doubt and fairly early in the game.

You can put Larry O on a bus right now and I will show up to wave him off into the distance. That was one of the more embarrassing displays of lack of effort that I have ever seen from a Steelers player.

His efforts, or lack of them, was something that infuriated me as that game went on.

I'm not one to crush players or say that aren't trying without clear evidence. In this case, I have seen the evidence.

He should be gone immediately IMO.

[Hawkman]

Not saying there isn't an excellent choice out there. Just saying I.hope whoever is making that choice has better ideas than the horrible ones the internet is vomiting forth.

I nearly blew beer through my nose when Rex Ryan said the Steelers should do a straight swap for McCarthy. Could you see Tomlin being told what to do by Jerrah?

[Mojouw]

I almost broke my TV when I saw a play where Larry O was standing right in front of a running back being held by a teammate in the hope of tackling him. Larry O literally stepped to the side with nobody touching him and allowed the runner to fight for 2 more yards with no effort to stop him or help his teammate. And that was with the game still in doubt and fairly early in the game.

You can put Larry O on a bus right now and I will show up to wave him off into the distance. That was one of the more embarrassing displays of lack of effort that I have ever seen from a Steelers player.

His efforts, or lack of them, was something that infuriated me as that game went on.

I'm not one to crush players or say that aren't trying without clear evidence. In this case, I have seen the evidence.

He should be gone immediately IMO.

Yeah. Add to how much he got shoved around, and Larry O has got to go.

Honestly, I don't think most of these dudes really pay attention. They're probably online building their brand the entire time rather than looking at what actually happened.

But, just wait, we're gonna have multiple people here howling about how Heyward and Watt quit and Tomlin condoned it.

[Mojouw]

I nearly blew beer through my nose when Rex Ryan said the Steelers should do a straight swap for McCarthy. Could you see Tomlin being told what to do by Jerrah?

Or McCarthy losing his first 4 games?

[Dwinsgames]

I almost broke my TV when I saw a play where Larry O was standing right in front of a running back being held by a teammate in the hope of tackling him. Larry O literally stepped to the side with nobody touching him and allowed the runner to fight for 2 more yards with no effort to stop him or help his teammate. And that was with the game still in doubt and fairly early in the game.

You can put Larry O on a bus right now and I will show up to wave him off into the distance. That was one of the more embarrassing displays of lack of effort that I have ever seen from a Steelers player.

His efforts, or lack of them, was something that infuriated me as that game went on.

I'm not one to crush players or say that aren't trying without clear evidence. In this case, I have seen the evidence.

He should be gone immediately IMO.

and maybe this is exactly why he has played for every team in the division in his career ?

plays well for a time then mails it in ?

[pczach]

Yeah. Add to how much he got shoved around, and Larry O has got to go.

Honestly, I don't think most of these dudes really pay attention. They're probably online building their brand the entire time rather than looking at what actually happened.

But, just wait, we're gonna have multiple people here howling about how Heyward and Watt quit and Tomlin condoned it.

Larry O did not contribute much. That's for sure.

Cam and TJ don't have it in their DNA to quit. Those guys have to be badly injured to even get them to come off the field.

Obviously, Mike Tomlin didn't quit. It's just undeniably not going his way right now.

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and maybe this is exactly why he has played for every team in the division in his career ?

plays well for a time then mails it in ?

Maybe? It's very possible they have experienced some of the same at those other locations.

He played well when they first signed him. I posted here that I wanted them to resign him because I thought he earned it with his effort. Since he got this latest contract, he only shows up occasionally. I never feel like the team is consistently getting his best.

[tube517]

They have never been able to replace Stephon Tuitt. Larry O is always hobbling with an injury. Seems like his name is on the Injury report every week. Donte Jackson is probably on the injury list more than Larry O

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[Hawkman]

They have never been able to replace Stephon Tuitt. Larry O is always hobbling with an injury. Seems like his name is on the Injury report every week. Donte Jackson is probably on the injury list more than Larry O

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Our two biggest defensive setbacks in recent history were Shazier and Tuitt. Both were beasts.

[pczach]

They have never been able to replace Stephon Tuitt. Larry O is always hobbling with an injury. Seems like his name is on the Injury report every week. Donte Jackson is probably on the injury list more than Larry O

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Good points. The Tuitt comment reminds of something that I used to always ask people to remember.

This team lost Ryan Shazier and Stephon Tuitt in totally unexpected ways. Shazier was emerging as a DPOY type of player, and Tuitt had become a dominant force when both guys just disappeared from the roster. I believe Shazier's tragic injury really damaged the team from a talent perspective and an emotional standpoint. That team wasn't the same the second he went down.

Tuitt losing his brother and ultimately choosing to leave the NFL was a devastating hit to this team. Imagine Tuitt playing next to TJ Watt over the last 4 seasons. He is still only 31 years old right now. He left the game as he was entering his prime. I believed he had just surpassed Cam Heyward in his impact on the game when he stopped playing.

Suddenly losing star players to catastrophic injuries or to horrible loss and personal circumstances was devastating to this roster. You can't simply replace them. You have to hope you find players to ultimately take their places after a few years of development, but it is hard enough to find players that talented and that good in the first place. It also created holes in the roster that needed to be addressed on top of whatever holes were already in line to be addressed.

The loss of both players set the team back in a very bad way that is hard to immediately bounce back from.

[Mojouw]

Good points. The Tuitt comment reminds of something that I used to always ask people to remember.

This team lost Ryan Shazier and Stephon Tuitt in totally unexpected ways. Shazier was emerging as a DPOY type of player, and Tuitt had become a dominant force when both guys just disappeared from the roster. I believe Shazier's tragic injury really damaged the team from a talent perspective and an emotional standpoint. That team wasn't the same the second he went down.

Tuitt losing his brother and ultimately choosing to leave the NFL was a devastating hit to this team. Imagine Tuitt playing next to TJ Watt over the last 4 seasons. He is still only 31 years old right now. He left the game as he was entering his prime. I believed he had just surpassed Cam Heyward in his impact on the game when he stopped playing.

Suddenly losing star players to catastrophic injuries or to horrible loss and personal circumstances was devastating to this roster. You can't simply replace them. You have to hope you find players to ultimately take their places after a few years of development, but it is hard enough to find players that talented and that good in the first place. It also created holes in the roster that needed to be addressed on top of whatever holes were already in line to be addressed.

The loss of both players set the team back in a very bad way that is hard to immediately bounce back from.

Nuh uh. Coach more harder.

In all seriousness, this just gets overlooked far too much.

Tuitt would be one of the best down linemen in the league.

Shazier likely would've been one of the best defensive players in the league.

But I'm.sure losing the best player on your defense didn't impact the 2017 team.at all.

[Hawkman]

I’ve often wondered, if there had been today’s social media and posting boards in the Noll era, how soon would people be hollering for his firing. In his last twelve seasons as coach, he had four losing ones (one badly), only made the playoffs four times and only won two of those games. Or……..does he get a twelve year pass because of the equity he built up from winning four SBs over six years…..keeping in mind that he won them with an eventual ten hall of famers, with an equal number on both sides of the ball. The Steelers draft class of 74 was probably the best in NFL history. This is not necessarily a defense of Tomlin, it’s just perspective. Cowher couldn’t get over the hump until Ben came along. If it weren’t for a Rooney intervention we may not have gotten him, and Maddox certainly wasn’t going to take us to the promised land.

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Nuh uh. Coach more harder.

In all seriousness, this just gets overlooked far too much.

Tuitt would be one of the best down linemen in the league.

Shazier likely would've been one of the best defensive players in the league.

But I'm.sure losing the best player on your defense didn't impact the 2017 team.at all.

Man, I remember wanting Shazier to make it all the way back, but knowing he shouldn’t.

[Mojouw]

I’ve often wondered, if there had been today’s social media and posting boards in the Noll era, how soon would people be hollering for his firing. In his last twelve seasons as coach, he had four losing ones (one badly), only made the playoffs four times and only won two of those games. Or……..does he get a twelve year pass because of the equity he built up from winning four SBs over six years…..keeping in mind that he won them with an eventual ten hall of famers, with an equal number on both sides of the ball. The Steelers draft class of 74 was probably the best in NFL history. This is not necessarily a defense of Tomlin, it’s just perspective. Cowher couldn’t get over the hump until Ben came along. If it weren’t for a Rooney intervention we may not have gotten him, and Maddox certainly wasn’t going to take us to the promised land.

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Man, I remember wanting Shazier to make it all the way back, but knowing he shouldn’t.

Shula, Noll, and Landry would've all been fired much sooner.

Marv Levy would've only gotten to lose 2 SBs.

[pczach]

Nuh uh. Coach more harder.

In all seriousness, this just gets overlooked far too much.

Tuitt would be one of the best down linemen in the league.

Shazier likely would've been one of the best defensive players in the league.

But I'm.sure losing the best player on your defense didn't impact the 2017 team.at all.

I still get chills thinking about Shazier, Tuitt, Cam, TJ, and Minkah potentially all on the field at the same time.

I know everything would have played out differently, but the possibilities of that many playmakers being on the field at the same time is just ridiculous, and that much athleticism, speed, power, and the leadership and motors those guys played with in the front 7 would have been a wet dream come true.

To think even Hargrave came and went in that time......Wow!

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

Mojouw sounds like you get off on the Steelers losing and the fans responds. I'm glad someone is enjoying the Steeler's and you seemed to enjoy the game chat as well. Love it for ya!

[tube517]

I’ve often wondered, if there had been today’s social media and posting boards in the Noll era, how soon would people be hollering for his firing. In his last twelve seasons as coach, he had four losing ones (one badly), only made the playoffs four times and only won two of those games. Or……..does he get a twelve year pass because of the equity he built up from winning four SBs over six years…..keeping in mind that he won them with an eventual ten hall of famers, with an equal number on both sides of the ball. The Steelers draft class of 74 was probably the best in NFL history. This is not necessarily a defense of Tomlin, it’s just perspective. Cowher couldn’t get over the hump until Ben came along. If it weren’t for a Rooney intervention we may not have gotten him, and Maddox certainly wasn’t going to take us to the promised land.

- - - Updated - - -



Man, I remember wanting Shazier to make it all the way back, but knowing he shouldn’t.

Fire Noll threads would appear in 1969.
Cut Bradshaw threads in 1970
Joe Greene is a bust thread in 1969
Swann is overrated in 1974

The crazy season of 1977? The boards would have gone wild.



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[MikeT]

It's amazing to me how much of NFL "analysis" is just people talking about their feelings.

These networks and websites will pay anyone with a pulse to talk about the NFL and all they can come up with is "vibes" as explanations for everything

No wonder it's impossible to actually talk about football things in any detail. All the coverage is just drama club for dudes nonsense.

And if your gonna do the "they quit" narrative; find some better examples. Cam Heyward was tossing o linemen a decade younger than him around deep into the game. A better one would be the great disappearing act of Larry O.

Quitting is part of it but i agree there were players still giving it their everything. The issue was there were a few players that looked like they quit. Being a team sport that's a huge issue. Even just one guy quitting can and will negatively impact the rest of the unit. Its a cancer that spreads. That's 100% on the coach and nobody else. They either cure it or remove it. Its as black and white as that.

Personally i can handle the team loosing if they get beat. What i have a hard time with is seeing terrible schemes and philosophies. Coaches that don't put their players in the best position to succeed. That's terrible leadership. Good leadership uses their players or employees to their strengths and not trying to force them to fit a square peg into a round hole.

[Mojouw]

Seems that the schemes and philosophies are only terrible after big losses. After wins or close fought losses, they are fine. Weird. Also which schemes are the issue? Which are not?

Honestly, I think we all just say "scheme" when we are at a loss to explain a loss.

For instance, I saw a ton of OLBs "charging the mesh point" - the plan of attack against the Ravens for several years now. But something else was different on Saturday. Maybe what the DL was doing, the other LBers, or the DBs in support. I do not know. Because it looked similar but clearly was not. Those details would be interesting to know. And would help us all understand what we saw.

[pczach]

Seems that the schemes and philosophies are only terrible after big losses. After wins or close fought losses, they are fine. Weird. Also which schemes are the issue? Which are not?

Honestly, I think we all just say "scheme" when we are at a loss to explain a loss.

For instance, I saw a ton of OLBs "charging the mesh point" - the plan of attack against the Ravens for several years now. But something else was different on Saturday. Maybe what the DL was doing, the other LBers, or the DBs in support. I do not know. Because it looked similar but clearly was not. Those details would be interesting to know. And would help us all understand what we saw.

There is scheme. And then there is game planning.

They are two completely different things.

Scheme is the actual design of what the team operates in.

Game planning is what determines how you use scheme in a game based on what you see on tape, taking advantage of matchups, tendencies, and basing much of that on what you think the opposing team will be doing in the big picture of the game, plus the situational tendencies.

Game planning and play calling is the application of scheme and everything you are capable of as a team used strategically to give your team the best chance to succeed on every single play. There are tons of variables and options within the schemes that are decided upon going into games and then adjusted as much as possible as the game goes on. That is why the results always vary and some coaches are far better at what they do than others even within the same schemes and basic sets and formations. There is nuance and understanding of your talent and what they are capable of, the opponent's talent and what they are capable of, and what other teams are trying to do to you that all get wrapped up into a complex list of variables that have to be dissected, navigated, and applied to try to maximize your team's ability to win on a play by play basis that ultimately adds up to wins and losses on the field.

How they attacked the "mesh point" was different than it had been in the past 5 seasons against Lamar Jackson. In this game, the edge players were told to attack the running back and ignore the quarterback on the handoff. In the previous games, the quarterback was the main focus of attacking that situation. The edge players would come at Jackson to try to dictate that he hand the ball off and let the structure of the defense defend the RB after he gets the ball. If Jackson hands the ball off, the edge player attacks down the line of scrimmage to try to make the play. If Jackson keeps the ball, the edge player is in position to tackle him in the backfield.

Just deciding how they wanted to edge players to defend Jackson as a runner is an adjustment to how the scheme is implemented. When the decision was made to allow Jackson to keep the ball, he easily got to the edge and picked up chunks of yardage. Once that happened, it messes with the minds of players as to who was going to get the ball and it gave the Raven's offense all the diversity and deception they needed to have the defense playing on their heels. The team decided their first priority was to take away Derrick Henry and take their chances with Jackson running free to the edge.

It didn't work out at all. Defending it the way they did helped Jackson get over any psychological and confidence issues he has been having when facing the Steelers' defense. Once that went down the way, you could see the players' body language looking like they knew what they were doing wasn't working. They have a hard enough time holding up against the physicality of the Ravens' OL at the LOS when they knew what to expect and how to play them and that the RB was going to get the ball almost all the time. They got bullied and maybe they lose the game anyway, but the decision on how they defended the handoff contributed to the team not believing in what they were doing when they know how they have been playing Jackson has worked.

I read some comments by players saying they were doing what they were coached to do. That was a coaching decision to play it that way. It just didn't work at all.

[Mojouw]

There is scheme. And then there is game planning.

They are two completely different things.

Scheme is the actual design of what the team operates in.

Game planning is what determines how you use scheme in a game based on what you see on tape, taking advantage of matchups, tendencies, and basing much of that on what you think the opposing team will be doing in the big picture of the game, plus the situational tendencies.

Game planning and play calling is the application of scheme and everything you are capable of as a team used strategically to give your team the best chance to succeed on every single play. There are tons of variables and options within the schemes that are decided upon going into games and then adjusted as much as possible as the game goes on. That is why the results always vary and some coaches are far better at what they do than others even within the same schemes and basic sets and formations. There is nuance and understanding of your talent and what they are capable of, the opponent's talent and what they are capable of, and what other teams are trying to do to you that all get wrapped up into a complex list of variables that have to be dissected, navigated, and applied to try to maximize your team's ability to win on a play by play basis that ultimately adds up to wins and losses on the field.

How they attacked the "mesh point" was different than it had been in the past 5 seasons against Lamar Jackson. In this game, the edge players were told to attack the running back and ignore the quarterback on the handoff. In the previous games, the quarterback was the main focus of attacking that situation. The edge players would come at Jackson to try to dictate that he hand the ball off and let the structure of the defense defend the RB after he gets the ball. If Jackson hands the ball off, the edge player attacks down the line of scrimmage to try to make the play. If Jackson keeps the ball, the edge player is in position to tackle him in the backfield.

Just deciding how they wanted to edge players to defend Jackson as a runner is an adjustment to how the scheme is implemented. When the decision was made to allow Jackson to keep the ball, he easily got to the edge and picked up chunks of yardage. Once that happened, it messes with the minds of players as to who was going to get the ball and it gave the Raven's offense all the diversity and deception they needed to have the defense playing on their heels. The team decided their first priority was to take away Derrick Henry and take their chances with Jackson running free to the edge.

It didn't work out at all. Defending it the way they did helped Jackson get over any psychological and confidence issues he has been having when facing the Steelers' defense. Once that went down the way, you could see the players' body language looking like they knew what they were doing wasn't working. They have a hard enough time holding up against the physicality of the Ravens' OL at the LOS when they knew what to expect and how to play them and that the RB was going to get the ball almost all the time. They got bullied and maybe they lose the game anyway, but the decision on how they defended the handoff contributed to the team not believing in what they were doing when they know how they have been playing Jackson has worked.

I read some comments by players saying they were doing what they were coached to do. That was a coaching decision to play it that way. It just didn't work at all.

You have just provided more insight and analysis than 99.9% of the otherwise available discussion about the Steelers on the internet.

That was kind of my point. You are doing more than enough to have a useful conversation.

Most folks, including paid former players and analysts, are not.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

You have just provided more insight and analysis than 99.9% of the otherwise available discussion about the Steelers on the internet.

That was kind of my point. You are doing more than enough to have a useful conversation.

Most folks, including paid former players and analysts, are not.

Yeah, sadly insight and analysis is in the minority in sports and other aspects of society. It seems like its more about who comments first, loudest and most negatively that gets clicks, viewers, etc.