Justin Fields case for QB1

[Steeler-in-west]

That rests on the assumption/projection that KP has the ability to be a good starting QB.

There’s just as much evidence in college and pros that he’s simply not good enough.

I understand his last year in college at Pitt he was very good. In the pros he was under canada’s offense and seemed to be restricted in what he could do. Again, no one looked good in Canada’s system. I think its impossible for us to know if KP is good or not.

Given whats transpired in the offseason it’s not going to look good if we go one and done or worse. The reverse is also true

[Mojouw]

I understand his last year in college at Pitt he was very good. In the pros he was under canada’s offense and seemed to be restricted in what he could do. Again, no one looked good in Canada’s system. I think its impossible for us to know if KP is good or not.

Given whats transpired in the offseason it’s not going to look good if we go one and done or worse. The reverse is also true

For a franchise to have “screwed up” a player, it has to be assumed that player was going to thrive in the NFL in another situation.

I have always rejected that assumption with KP.

I rooted for him and HOPED he succeeded. But always strongly suspected he simply did not have the tools required for the job.

KP was projected by the majority of scouting places as a 3-4th round career back-up.

If that was his true ability level, the mistake was drafting him. Not what happened after. While that was a clusterfuck, it doesn’t matter. It produces the same end result.

I’ve asked this before and no one really has an answers. What about KP in college or the pros looked like the foundation of a 10 year starter?

I initially thought poise and accuracy. But that evaporated over time.

[Dwinsgames]

That is pretty much the crux of me question. Is Fields running this offense incorrectly because he's not seeing guys coming open and such? Things Russ will be able to see? Make defenses respect the pass, open run lanes for the RBs, and you still have Fields' athletic ability to take over with his legs. THAT is the plan for this offense?

Instead we have defenses crowding the LOS and keeping the run game at bay, forcing Fields to do what he's been doing. If this is in fact what's happening then I have to agree with turning to Russ this week. If it works we will find out if Fields can learn it or not. If it doesn't, we go back to try winning as many games as we can with Fields' legs.

when does he actually have the time to sit and scan the field ? he always has his eyes downfield BUT .....he also always has people to escape from blown blocking assignments , that said the question I pose is this ....

how is putting in a guy who is less mobile , who holds the ball longer going to help this team move the football when the Line play is as horrific as ours has been ??

[Born2Steel]

when does he actually have the time to sit and scan the field ? he always has his eyes downfield BUT .....he also always has people to escape from blown blocking assignments , that said the question I pose is this ....

how is putting in a guy who is less mobile , who holds the ball longer going to help this team move the football when the Line play is as horrific as ours has been ??

I don't have those answers. This is why I'm asking questions and speculating.

[Steeler-in-west]

For a franchise to have “screwed up” a player, it has to be assumed that player was going to thrive in the NFL in another situation.

I have always rejected that assumption with KP.

I rooted for him and HOPED he succeeded. But always strongly suspected he simply did not have the tools required for the job.

KP was projected by the majority of scouting places as a 3-4th round career back-up.

If that was his true ability level, the mistake was drafting him. Not what happened after. While that was a clusterfuck, it doesn’t matter. It produces the same end result.

I’ve asked this before and no one really has an answers. What about KP in college or the pros looked like the foundation of a 10 year starter?

I initially thought poise and accuracy. But that evaporated over time.

where are you getting this from? He was easily a top 3 Qb draft prospect coming out of college. As far as his strengths look at the scouting reports;

-good accuracy at all levels
-above average arm strength
-able to create out of a busted play
-able to go through his checkdowns. (Where did that go i wonder?)
-competitive and not afraid to take a hit

he displayed all this stuff in 2022, but got shackled in 2023 and played behind a regressing line (Cole’s year to drop off a cliff)

i think its just a case of personality differences in the locker room which made Tomlin go after Wilson and let KP go when he didnt take it well. But i think the steelers did KP absolutely no favors by having him play in canadas system. He might’ve played well in this system. Too bad he wanted out.

[Mojouw]

where are you getting this from? He was easily a top 3 Qb draft prospect coming out of college. As far as his strengths look at the scouting reports;

-good accuracy at all levels
-above average arm strength
-able to create out of a busted play
-able to go through his checkdowns. (Where did that go i wonder?)
-competitive and not afraid to take a hit

he displayed all this stuff in 2022, but got shackled in 2023 and played behind a regressing line (Cole’s year to drop off a cliff)

i think its just a case of personality differences in the locker room which made Tomlin go after Wilson and let KP go when he didnt take it well. But i think the steelers did KP absolutely no favors by having him play in canadas system. He might’ve played well in this system. Too bad he wanted out.

Google has all the information. Many services expressed serious doubts.

It is not a universal assumption that he could develop into a good NFL starter.

If you assume he could, then all you say is true.

If you start from the point that he’s not that guy, then it all falls apart

[Voice of Reason]

Google has all the information. Many services expressed serious doubts.

It is not a universal assumption that he could develop into a good NFL starter.

If you assume he could, then all you say is true.

If you start from the point that he’s not that guy, then it all falls apart

How about the assumption that, because he played in Canada's system, he never really got the chance to show if he could play or not?

[Steeler-in-west]

Google has all the information. Many services expressed serious doubts.

It is not a universal assumption that he could develop into a good NFL starter.

If you assume he could, then all you say is true.

If you start from the point that he’s not that guy, then it all falls apart

you could also do a search of top Qb draft prospects in 2022. He is regularly at or near the top of the list. Thats an across the board thought that he could be a good NFL starting Qb. We all saw the potential in 2022. I remember the sentiment on this board at the time was very positive and hopeful. Then it all went sideways in 23. I blame Canada’s system, some blame KP more. Maybe time will tell what the reality is. Maybe he gets a shot if Hurts goes down.

its interesting even though hes on another team because how this turns out is a reflection of the coaches and front office’s ability to evaluate Qb talent.

[Mojouw]

So he was the prize pig in a historically poorly regarded class. Going in to the 22 draft the discussion was if it was the worst crop of WBs ever or just the third worst.

Being touted as the “best” of that group is not saying much.

In most years, KP doesn’t get drafted until the third or 4th round.

The Steelers missed on their pre draft scouting. They were so desperate for a solution at the position that they talked themselves into KP being someone he’s not.

Then they yoked him to the worst OC in football and it went poorly.

But I honestly believe KP could’ve been coached by Bill Walsh and Sam Wyche,and it still wouldn’t have gone all that well.

The Steelers bungled scouting. Then they bungled the supporting the new QB. The only thing they got right was stepping out of the mistake in less than 5 years.

[Dwinsgames]

I don't have those answers. This is why I'm asking questions and speculating.

fair enough

[Steeler-in-west]

I think better coaching and play design would’ve made a difference in KP’s playing. Imo.

I think the goal this year is more than a one and done. Thats why they're apparently turning to Wilson

[86WARD]

I thought so too…but he looked bad in Philadelphia during his playing time to the point it was debatable if he would be the number two guy.

[Mojouw]

I thought so too…but he looked bad in Philadelphia during his playing time to the point it was debatable if he would be the number two guy.

The jury is still out but I think KP will end up as a good college QB and an average NFL backup at best.

Maybe like Bruce Gradkowski’s career?

[Born2Steel]

I'm very interested to see how the offense runs with Russ tonight. It has been speculated Fields will get some snaps as well. I wonder if they will put both on the field together.

[Mojouw]

I'm very interested to see how the offense runs with Russ tonight. It has been speculated Fields will get some snaps as well. I wonder if they will put both on the field together.

I’m sure they will. I’ve never seen it work before.

Jaworski and Cunningham tried this and it just wasn’t all that effective.

Are they willing to have one of them run real pass routes? Play tailback? If not; it is 10 on 11.

[Born2Steel]

I’m sure they will. I’ve never seen it work before.

Jaworski and Cunningham tried this and it just wasn’t all that effective.

Are they willing to have one of them run real pass routes? Play tailback? If not; it is 10 on 11.

Maybe Fields gets 'Taysom Hill' type snaps?

[Mojouw]

Maybe Fields gets 'Taysom Hill' type snaps?

That might at least make the defense account for him.

It just seems weird to me that they didn’t seem excited to call designed runs and expose Fields to hits for 6 weeks but now they just can’t wait to get him smacked around?

I wonder if it’s all to make Jets waste preparation time.

[Born2Steel]

That might at least make the defense account for him.

It just seems weird to me that they didn’t seem excited to call designed runs and expose Fields to hits for 6 weeks but now they just can’t wait to get him smacked around?

I wonder if it’s all to make Jets waste preparation time.

I think it's a way to try to give this offense a shot of energy and more plays. I'm for any ideas to help score points. Our offense needs all the help it can get.

[86WARD]

Wouldn’t mind seeing them run that Tyler Warren Penn State play.

[Steeler-in-west]

Unless KP has a resurgence the Steelers look good in this situation.

[tube517]

Wouldn’t mind seeing them run that Tyler Warren Penn State play.

Warren is on my fantasy team. Can't believe he was not drafted and was available after week 2. Glad I scooped him up. He is responsible for about 3 of my wins.

Sent from my Pixel 8 Pro using Tapatalk

[Mojouw]

So for all you QB knowledgeable folks....is "touch" a learnable skill?

Because all I could think about last night was "What if Fields could do all the things he can do now PLUS he learned to stop throwing everything as a line drive rocket and started putting some arc/touch/lead/whatever the right word is here on some of his passes"?

That version of Fields would be a heck of a hard QB to defend against. I was thinking that based off of last night...it is Wilson the rest of the way. Even I could see that. But....what about next year....could Fields learn to change how he delivers some of his passes? Or is it just too ingrained in muscle memory for a guy to really change?

[86WARD]

I don’t know for a fact but I think that’s a coachable thing. I think the mind set has to be there as well as the confidence.

One question I was wondering was: Did Smith have more of the playbook open for Wilson than he did for Fields? There were a couple “new” plays there but maybe they weren’t new. Maybe they just worked under Wilson?

[Mojouw]

I don’t know for a fact but I think that’s a coachable thing. I think the mind set has to be there as well as the confidence.

One question I was wondering was: Did Smith have more of the playbook open for Wilson than he did for Fields? There were a couple “new” plays there but maybe they weren’t new. Maybe they just worked under Wilson?

That was my biggest post-game question as well. They ran some sort of pick play with Pickens and Jefferson at least 3 times. Once for a TD and once for a decent gain and I forget the other one. I feel like we haven't seen that before. Maybe I missed it.

I am hoping one of the internet breakdown sites has a mid-week posting about what was different. Was it play calls? Or was it Wilson took things that have been there previously and Fields was too hesitant with?

[Born2Steel]

That was my biggest post-game question as well. They ran some sort of pick play with Pickens and Jefferson at least 3 times. Once for a TD and once for a decent gain and I forget the other one. I feel like we haven't seen that before. Maybe I missed it.

I am hoping one of the internet breakdown sites has a mid-week posting about what was different. Was it play calls? Or was it Wilson took things that have been there previously and Fields was too hesitant with?

This is the question I was asking earlier in the week. Is Fields just not seeing things that are there, where Wilson will be better at seeing the whole field? I think that answer is yes after last night's game.

[Mojouw]

This is the question I was asking earlier in the week. Is Fields just not seeing things that are there, where Wilson will be better at seeing the whole field? I think that answer is yes after last night's game.

I would have to agree based on what I think I saw from my couch.

It also seems that Fields has been so focused on not turning the ball over....that he may have been hesitant to cut it loose. Wilson, clearly, had no such concerns.

[EzraTank]

I don’t know for a fact but I think that’s a coachable thing. I think the mind set has to be there as well as the confidence.

One question I was wondering was: Did Smith have more of the playbook open for Wilson than he did for Fields? There were a couple “new” plays there but maybe they weren’t new. Maybe they just worked under Wilson?

I think it's coachable to a degree, but it also has to be something the QB has in them. What I mean is that they have to be able to read defenses and know when to rocket it and when to throw the touch pass. On the TD to Pickens, Russ read a blitz and quickly recognized one on one coverage and released it immediately. Not sure Fields would have seen or done that and pretty sure he would have held onto the ball too long and been forced to scrabble.

[ALLD]

I would have to agree based on what I think I saw from my couch.

It also seems that Fields has been so focused on not turning the ball over....that he may have been hesitant to cut it loose. Wilson, clearly, had no such concerns.

Minimal turnovers were a major part of Fields' success. Also, the Steelers got 4 turnovers against the Jets which helped to ensure a blowout win.

[pczach]

So for all you QB knowledgeable folks....is "touch" a learnable skill?

Because all I could think about last night was "What if Fields could do all the things he can do now PLUS he learned to stop throwing everything as a line drive rocket and started putting some arc/touch/lead/whatever the right word is here on some of his passes"?

That version of Fields would be a heck of a hard QB to defend against. I was thinking that based off of last night...it is Wilson the rest of the way. Even I could see that. But....what about next year....could Fields learn to change how he delivers some of his passes? Or is it just too ingrained in muscle memory for a guy to really change?

It is a learnable skill. However, it is something that needs to be worked on over and over and over again until it becomes a more natural act. On top of that, the degree of ability is always determined by a natural ability to do it.

It can be done. I have seen people get better at it by working diligently on improving that part of their game. Fields will also be limited by whatever his abilities allow.

I am not a tall person. I played the position and routinely had to throw the ball over people. I had a very good arm, but learning to alter your arm angle and putting extra loft on the ball to get it over defenders is something that is done out of necessity. I see that in Wilson where he is able to feather some throws with defenders in his face. I think that is partly why he is such a good deep ball thrower with touch. That was also my strength.

There are obviously large quarterbacks that are able to make all the throws, but I think the fact that Fields was such an athletic freak and didn't play in sophisticated passing offenses worked against him in this regard. He probably didn't have to alter throws to fit the ball in. He could just use his athleticism to run with the ball or buy more time to make a throw he could execute more easily. That's not a knock. That's just an observation based on seeing people that were bigger and more physically talented than me.

[Steeler-in-west]

Its his 4th year already. I think its hard at his tenure and at this level to learn to read defenses and develop touch. Its going to take alot of offseason work. Bubby never really learned to read defenses.