Steelers' lack of fight has proven the doubters correct

[stillers4me]

INDIANAPOLIS — One of their star players criticized them publicly last week for their lack of work ethic and desire to win. Their former Pro Bowl safety said the team’s culture is bad and that Mike Tomlin needs to change his message to his team. Their former Hall of Fame-bound quarterback said, simply, they have lost their way.And this is how the Steelers reacted on Saturday?With this horrid 30-13 loss to the Indianapolis Colts at Lucas Oil Stadium?

If nothing else, the Steelers proved that Minkah Fitzpatrick, Ryan Clark and Ben Roethlisberger were exactly right with their observations.....

Read more @ Ron Cook: Steelers' lack of fight has proven the doubters correct | Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

[86WARD]

But Ben............I thought it was his fault.............

[pczach]

INDIANAPOLIS — One of their star players criticized them publicly last week for their lack of work ethic and desire to win. Their former Pro Bowl safety said the team’s culture is bad and that Mike Tomlin needs to change his message to his team. Their former Hall of Fame-bound quarterback said, simply, they have lost their way.And this is how the Steelers reacted on Saturday?With this horrid 30-13 loss to the Indianapolis Colts at Lucas Oil Stadium?

If nothing else, the Steelers proved that Minkah Fitzpatrick, Ryan Clark and Ben Roethlisberger were exactly right with their observations.....

Read more @ Ron Cook: Steelers' lack of fight has proven the doubters correct | Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

It's getting more and more difficult to defend Mike Tomlin. There are just so many signs that the whole thing is going sideways and that the team doesn't believe in what they are doing or who is coaching them.

I hope I am wrong, but that's what it looks like and that's what it feels like from the outside looking in.

The team has added a ton of young talent, they have upgraded the roster, the team has gotten worse, and there are disgruntled players everywhere with some not even playing hard. That is not a sign of good coaching or a team going in the right direction.

[Mojouw]

1998-2000 Cowher.

We have literally seen this happen before.

[Steeler-in-west]

1998-2000 Cowher.

We have literally seen this happen before.

has some similarities to 98, it also has similarities to the 1990 team. Inept offense, talented defense, long tenured coach who has seen better days…

[feltdizz]

The problem is Cam and Minkah have done nothing but talk and stand on the sidelines most of the year. You can’t have old players ripping the team while not practicing and contributing.

[Born2Steel]

The problem is Cam and Minkah have done nothing but talk and stand on the sidelines most of the year. You can’t have old players ripping the team while not practicing and contributing.

Old players voted team captains. That is exactly what they should be doing. Obviously they can't lead by example from the injury list, so they must be vocal. If keeping it in-house has not worked by now, then talking in the media is the next step. I think everyone involved with this team is frustrated right now. Sometimes things boil over. Cam and Minkah are team captains though. This is their role.

[tube517]

1998-2000 Cowher.

We have literally seen this happen before.

Also 85-86 Noll

Question is does Tomlin have the competitive drive to try and fix or is he burnt out? It happens.

[Rotorhead]

Also 85-86 Noll

Question is does Tomlin have the competitive drive to try and fix or is he burnt out? It happens.

I think he is burned out, this team is done for this season and it is showing in their comments and actions. I just hope the Rooney’s can see it and act accordingly. There should be several OC’s and DC’s available that would love a HC position.

[EzraTank]

Like I said in another thread. I'm starting to wonder if the "geniuses" like Belichick and Tomlin won so much the past 20 years because, despite their "greatness" at coaching, also happened to have hall of fame QB's under center that were good enough to pull out wins when coaching failed.

[feltdizz]

Old players voted team captains. That is exactly what they should be doing. Obviously they can't lead by example from the injury list, so they must be vocal. If keeping it in-house has not worked by now, then talking in the media is the next step. I think everyone involved with this team is frustrated right now. Sometimes things boil over. Cam and Minkah are team captains though. This is their role.

being vocal while in sweats doesn’t have much impact. I think once you are an old vet you are seen as a captain by default and your words carry less weight if you aren’t carrying your share every week. Its just talk at that point.

Najee failed as a leader because he isn’t that smart/mature for the role. Some people aren’t build to lead but we damn sure need to find some young guys who can. Maybe Warren is a leader?

[Mojouw]

Like I said in another thread. I'm starting to wonder if the "geniuses" like Belichick and Tomlin won so much the past 20 years because, despite their "greatness" at coaching, also happened to have hall of fame QB's under center that were good enough to pull out wins when coaching failed.

Are you saying it is almost impossible to win when you have poop and poop lite at the QB position? Nah....there's no basis for that.

In all honestly and no snark at all...but in the last 10 years or so....who has consistently won with below average QB play? I can think of a few examples (Shanahan, McVay, some various Eagles staffs, maybe current Dolphins) but in each case, it is because the offensive coaches hit on some schematic wizardry that flummoxed defenses.

So in absence of that (which is most DEFINITELY where Pittsburgh is at), you need really darn good QB play to hold it all together. Whoops.

I want the Steelers to look less like a monkey poop fight, but I understand why it looks so bad. No one is gonna be able to make it work until a better offense is magically dropped on their heads.

For instance, I was just watching the Texans without Stroud. With Stroud, the looked like a well schooled team on the rise. Without Stroud? Incompetent monkey crap fight with some stepping on rakes to add some extra hilarity.

[feltdizz]

Like I said in another thread. I'm starting to wonder if the "geniuses" like Belichick and Tomlin won so much the past 20 years because, despite their "greatness" at coaching, also happened to have hall of fame QB's under center that were good enough to pull out wins when coaching failed.

definitely. I think coaches like Shanahan and McDaniels have shown they can coach but they also have talent all over their teams, especially on offense.

everyone is a genius until they lose key players.

Not defending Tomlin just pointing out that without a franchise QB its much harder to look like a great coach. My issue with Tomlin is the team melted as soon as Kenny went down because they have no faith in Mitch.

I think our biggest mistake was letting the rookie 7th round QB get scooped up by KC. Not saying he is anything special but at least he is an unknown who may have some game vs Mitch and Mason who we all know players aren’t too thrilled to play with.

[steelcityboyz]

Again, George Pickens decided to take the play off and not block for Jaylan at the goaline. I have to wonder how many more players aren't giving it all on the field? That falls on Mike T.

[DesertSteel]

The problem is Cam and Minkah have done nothing but talk and stand on the sidelines most of the year. You can’t have old players ripping the team while not practicing and contributing.

I’m pretty sure that Cam and Minkah are not lacking in cred.

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I think our biggest mistake was letting the rookie 7th round QB get scooped up by KC. Not saying he is anything special but at least he is an unknown who may have some game vs Mitch and Mason who we all know players aren’t too thrilled to play with.

You really see THAT as our BIGGEST mistake?!

[Rocky Mtn.]

Are you saying it is almost impossible to win when you have poop and poop lite at the QB position? Nah....there's no basis for that.

In all honestly and no snark at all...but in the last 10 years or so....who has consistently won with below average QB play? I can think of a few examples (Shanahan, McVay, some various Eagles staffs, maybe current Dolphins) but in each case, it is because the offensive coaches hit on some schematic wizardry that flummoxed defenses.

So in absence of that (which is most DEFINITELY where Pittsburgh is at), you need really darn good QB play to hold it all together. Whoops.

I want the Steelers to look less like a monkey poop fight, but I understand why it looks so bad. No one is gonna be able to make it work until a better offense is magically dropped on their heads.

For instance, I was just watching the Texans without Stroud. With Stroud, the looked like a well schooled team on the rise. Without Stroud? Incompetent monkey crap fight with some stepping on rakes to add some extra hilarity.

Yeah. Texans do all that and still managed to get a critcal win today with a half ass quarterback.

[Dwinsgames]

Like I said in another thread. I'm starting to wonder if the "geniuses" like Belichick and Tomlin won so much the past 20 years because, despite their "greatness" at coaching, also happened to have hall of fame QB's under center that were good enough to pull out wins when coaching failed.

Tomlin did less with more than many but Ben held it together enough to keep them in the hunt .... now the last 3 of 4 seasons No Ben ( one because of injury ) and 2 since retirement and Team is not competitive .......

[EzraTank]

Are you saying it is almost impossible to win when you have poop and poop lite at the QB position? Nah....there's no basis for that.

In all honestly and no snark at all...but in the last 10 years or so....who has consistently won with below average QB play? I can think of a few examples (Shanahan, McVay, some various Eagles staffs, maybe current Dolphins) but in each case, it is because the offensive coaches hit on some schematic wizardry that flummoxed defenses.

So in absence of that (which is most DEFINITELY where Pittsburgh is at), you need really darn good QB play to hold it all together. Whoops.

I want the Steelers to look less like a monkey poop fight, but I understand why it looks so bad. No one is gonna be able to make it work until a better offense is magically dropped on their heads.

For instance, I was just watching the Texans without Stroud. With Stroud, the looked like a well schooled team on the rise. Without Stroud? Incompetent monkey crap fight with some stepping on rakes to add some extra hilarity.

No, I'm just saying that great QB's can make coaches look like great coaches. But based on my statement if you asked me who was a better coach, Bill Belichick or Bill Parcels it would hands down be Parcels every time. Parcels won it all (a few times) with average QB's and great coaching. Belichick won BECAUSE of Brady. Heck Tomlin won his only Superbowl in 2008 BECAUSE of Ben and a great defense (see Dick LeBeau), and Tomlin still needed Ben to have that ridiculously great drive and throw to Santonio Holmes to win. The minute the team and QB he inherited started to age the Steelers won because of great defense and Ben being ridiculous. If Parcels coached the Steelers from 2010 to 2017 we probably win four my SB's.

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Yeah. Texans do all that and still managed to get a critcal win today with a half ass quarterback.

What have the Texans ever won? A regular season upset isn't a big win, that happens all the time in the NFL.

[Mojouw]

No, I'm just saying that great QB's can make coaches look like great coaches. But based on my statement if you asked me who was a better coach, Bill Belichick or Bill Parcels it would hands down be Parcels every time. Parcels won it all (a few times) with average QB's and great coaching. Belichick won BECAUSE of Brady. Heck Tomlin won his only Superbowl in 2008 BECAUSE of Ben and a great defense (see Dick LeBeau), and Tomlin still needed Ben to have that ridiculously great drive and throw to Santonio Holmes to win. The minute the team and QB he inherited started to age the Steelers won because of great defense and Ben being ridiculous. If Parcels coached the Steelers from 2010 to 2017 we probably win four my SB's.

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What have the Texans ever won? A regular season upset isn't a big win, that happens all the time in the NFL.

Parcells won in a totally different era of football.

You can not win a SB now by having your QB turn around and hand off to Otis Anderson 30 times.

No one is currently winning SBs without superior QB play.

[bendsteel]

The problem is Cam and Minkah have done nothing but talk and stand on the sidelines most of the year. You can’t have old players ripping the team while not practicing and contributing.

I get your point, but YOU are not in the locker room OR on the practice field. I guarantee there are shouting matches going on. There is a TON of insider shit that we hear nothing about. Stating that they have "done nothing but talk" is a very, very dumb statement.

[tube517]

1998-2000 Cowher.

We have literally seen this happen before.

2003 Cowher. He did turn it around in the following year. Promoted an OC and rehired a proven DC. Also, had to rebuild the OL as they lost 2 o-linemen for the season of 04. And the stud NT Big Snack also lost for the year.
Oh, and some dude named Troy and his buddy, Ike, had a lot to say about it.

[steelcityboyz]

Parcells won in a totally different era of football.

You can not win a SB now by having your QB turn around and hand off to Otis Anderson 30 times.

No one is currently winning SBs without superior QB play.

Well with a good productive running game, a team can most certainly win a superbowl in any era of football.

[EzraTank]

Parcells won in a totally different era of football.

You can not win a SB now by having your QB turn around and hand off to Otis Anderson 30 times.

No one is currently winning SBs without superior QB play.

So you back up my original comment. Ben and Brady are why Tomlin and Belichick won. Thanks for coming around.

[EzraTank]

Well with a good productive running game, a team can most certainly win a superbowl in any era of football.

Exactly.

[Mojouw]

2003 Cowher. He did turn it around in the following year. Promoted an OC and rehired a proven DC. Also, had to rebuild the OL as they lost 2 o-linemen for the season of 04. And the stud NT Big Snack also lost for the year.
Oh, and some dude named Troy and his buddy, Ike, had a lot to say about it.

You’ve anticipated my point. Things can turn around fast in the NFL.

[Mojouw]

Well with a good productive running game, a team can most certainly win a superbowl in any era of football.

Name a solely rushing team with a below average passing offense that’s won recently.

[Mojouw]

So you back up my original comment. Ben and Brady are why Tomlin and Belichick won. Thanks for coming around.

I’ve never disputed it. It’s a meaningless statement.

Water is wet. You need superior QB play to win in the NFL.

[cubanstogie]

Name a solely rushing team with a below average passing offense that’s won recently.

And that is why Tomlin needs to go. Every rule in the league appears to be pro offense. Thats what fans want to see. IMO he hasn’t adapted, always trying to run out clock and leave it to the D and win 17-13. He’s very bright but stubborn thinking he knows best. You’ve said it yourself , the saying “defense wins championships” is outdated. We need an offensive minded coach.

[Mojouw]

And that is why Tomlin needs to go. Every rule in the league appears to be pro offense. Thats what fans want to see. IMO he hasn’t adapted, always trying to run out clock and leave it to the D and win 17-13. He’s very bright but stubborn thinking he knows best. You’ve said it yourself , the saying “defense wins championships” is outdated. We need an offensive minded coach.

I will certainly buy into that far more than many of the other arguments clattering around.

[86WARD]

And that is why Tomlin needs to go. Every rule in the league appears to be pro offense. Thats what fans want to see. IMO he hasn’t adapted, always trying to run out clock and leave it to the D and win 17-13. He’s very bright but stubborn thinking he knows best. You’ve said it yourself , the saying “defense wins championships” is outdated. We need an offensive minded coach.

Very good point. Times have changed and it does not appear that Tomlin's thought process is adapting to those changes.