Canada Fired!

[cubanstogie]

That link you give looks like one of the articles I read on this years ago.

Moj, the reason they have to run these plays during the week is so that the players remember the assignments. That's why it is so easy to add new stuff to the playbook. They then study their playbooks at home and do the mental reps leading up to the game.

That's all I got. I guess you want to see an article saying that they add plays during the season? I Don't know what to tell you. If high school kids can do it, professional football players and coaches can do it. Hell, I've heard of coaches changing routes within plays during the game to take advantage of how a defense is reacting to a look they are giving.

You know when you watch a trick play being run during the season? They don't just practice that play in training camp or every week. That play gets inserted into the game plan. It is run in practice and committed to memory for that week. They then run the play in the game. It's the same principal. These plays get added to the game plans each week, practiced and learned. They don't memorize 500 plays and just roll onto the field. There can be too many mistakes if it was done that way. This stuff is installed each and every week. I'm sure they have core plays that carry over into every game, but there is always new stuff being added.

Do I have any hard proof? I guess not. It's just how football has always worked.

If they don’t install anything new it would be asinine . You can’t expect different results with same old BS. I realize it’s baby steps at this point. Either way I’m optimistic with Canada gone. Even worst case they don’t introduce new stuff atleast it’ll be different mindset and hopefully better situational awareness. Quit throwing 3 yard passes on 3rd and nine and get your playmakers more than 4 targets. KP stats are significantly better with play action yet Steelers bottom of league in use of it. There’s plenty of shit to improve on, I really hope we see a difference.

[pczach]

You would first need to have coaches that know how to make adjustments. Something they are not good at all of doing.

There are a lot of people with great football minds that are in lower positions within organizations. They watch what the people above them come up with and know they can run rings around these guys. They just need an opportunity to show what they can do.

That doesn't mean that the next Bill Walsh is taking over the offense for the Steelers, but there are good, creative minds everywhere just waiting for a chance. The question is, will Tomlin give them a chance to really do something and allow them to make significant changes?

[Mach1]

There are a lot of people with great football minds that are in lower positions within organizations. They watch what the people above them come up with and know they can run rings around these guys. They just need an opportunity to show what they can do.

That doesn't mean that the next Bill Walsh is taking over the offense for the Steelers, but there are good, creative minds everywhere just waiting for a chance. The question is, will Tomlin give them a chance to really do something and allow them to make significant changes?

That!

[Mojouw]

That link you give looks like one of the articles I read on this years ago.

Moj, the reason they have to run these plays during the week is so that the players remember the assignments. That's why it is so easy to add new stuff to the playbook. They then study their playbooks at home and do the mental reps leading up to the game.

That's all I got. I guess you want to see an article saying that they add plays during the season? I Don't know what to tell you. If high school kids can do it, professional football players and coaches can do it. Hell, I've heard of coaches changing routes within plays during the game to take advantage of how a defense is reacting to a look they are giving.

You know when you watch a trick play being run during the season? They don't just practice that play in training camp or every week. That play gets inserted into the game plan. It is run in practice and committed to memory for that week. They then run the play in the game. It's the same principal. These plays get added to the game plans each week, practiced and learned. They don't memorize 500 plays and just roll onto the field. There can be too many mistakes if it was done that way. This stuff is installed each and every week. I'm sure they have core plays that carry over into every game, but there is always new stuff being added.

Do I have any hard proof? I guess not. It's just how football has always worked.

it sounds reasonable. It does. I can see the logic and chain of progression you are working through.

I just remember around this time last year going into the bye week and with everyone hoping Canada got canned, there were tons of stuff posted around Steelers related internets about what happens with plays and game planning during a "typical" NFL season.

And there were multiple places I heard discussions with former players and coaches where they talked about how NFL players don't learn squat during the season. While the 3 dozen plays you focus on each week are potentially different, they are from a pool of plays you learned in preseason. Players and coaches also discussed that this lack of in season learning is why the trading deadline isn't the flurry of activity that fans and the league would like. Teams would rather go with their in-house options than try and teach a new guy stuff.

I think the new offensive controllers can emphasize different things. They can deemphasize other things. But they are going to have to do that inside the confines of whatever has already been outlined as "the X # of total plays that Canada installed in August". For example, that trick play you mentioned likely comes from a pool of plays that were run in the lead-up to the regular season.

And I think that whatever it is the NFL is teaching each player about a given play either is far more extensive than what HS and even college players are told about an equivalent play....or NFL coaches have forgotten how to teach in that way. One or the other or we wouldn't have guys just falling out of their chairs when someone shows up on a new roster and plays well. How many times do we hear "And he just got on the active roster this week! Its incredible that he can do all these things and play so well. This just doesn't happen in the National Football League!!"

[86WARD]

- 2012 Ravens are the only team that has made a midseason change and made it to a conference championship game. Kinda understand that with where the teams may be before that change is made:

2012 Ravens Under Cameron, Caldwell -

Difference -

+1.2 points

+15.1 yds

+39.8 yds

+1.2 3rd down conversions

- Not only are bad teams becoming more likely to move on from poor performing coordinators mid-season, but those changes have been consistently correct. The team ends the season with a higher winning percentage than it had when it changed coordinators. 17 out of 25 teams which made such a change ended the season with a better win percentage, going from an average 30% winning percentage to 37%.

- There are also examples of head coaches giving up play calling and succeeding after that. Most recently Nick Sirianni.

There's probably not going to be a complete overhaul of the offense but things can be changed or tweaked to make things better. They do that sort of thing at halftime of games and we see teams being successful. Just the fact that someone new will be calling plays and may not be as predictable as Canada was is a start. How many times did we see teams saying that they knew what play was coming? Every Harris run is just that. That point alone should help a little bit.

Also, I don't think anyone is talking a full fledged new system...but plays can be installed and routes can be changed and hot routes can be installed on current plays. MANY, MANY times we hear stories of players saying they practiced this play one time this past week or that past week and it works in a game. Sometimes that's all it takes for these guys. Philly Special was drawn up in January. Never used, practiced twice a week up until Super Bowl.Never a play that was ever considered until Foles called for it. There could be stuff they have that they've never run in a game but practiced weekly...

All I am looking for is a little improvement and a little unpredictability...which shouldn't be hard for an NFL team to accomplish. I think we are all kidding ourselves if we think all of a sudden we will see some Andy Reid level stuff...

[tube517]

- 2012 Ravens are the only team that has made a midseason change and made it to a conference championship game. Kinda understand that with where the teams may be before that change is made:

2012 Ravens Under Cameron, Caldwell -

Difference -

+1.2 points

+15.1 yds

+39.8 yds

+1.2 3rd down conversions

- Not only are bad teams becoming more likely to move on from poor performing coordinators mid-season, but those changes have been consistently correct. The team ends the season with a higher winning percentage than it had when it changed coordinators. 17 out of 25 teams which made such a change ended the season with a better win percentage, going from an average 30% winning percentage to 37%.

- There are also examples of head coaches giving up play calling and succeeding after that. Most recently Nick Sirianni.

There's probably not going to be a complete overhaul of the offense but things can be changed or tweaked to make things better. They do that sort of thing at halftime of games and we see teams being successful. Just the fact that someone new will be calling plays and may not be as predictable as Canada was is a start. How many times did we see teams saying that they knew what play was coming? Every Harris run is just that. That point alone should help a little bit.

Also, I don't think anyone is talking a full fledged new system...but plays can be installed and routes can be changed and hot routes can be installed on current plays. MANY, MANY times we hear stories of players saying they practiced this play one time this past week or that past week and it works in a game. Sometimes that's all it takes for these guys. Philly Special was drawn up in January. Never used, practiced twice a week up until Super Bowl.Never a play that was ever considered until Foles called for it. There could be stuff they have that they've never run in a game but practiced weekly...

All I am looking for is a little improvement and a little unpredictability...which shouldn't be hard for an NFL team to accomplish. I think we are all kidding ourselves if we think all of a sudden we will see some Andy Reid level stuff...

And, puhleeze work on the screens. REAL screens that don't take forever to develop and predictable with end result of negative yards.

[86WARD]

And, puhleeze work on the screens. REAL screens that don't take forever to develop and predictable with end result of negative yards.

One thing that has been glaringly missing and they did run it a couple weeks ago with some success has been the WR screen.

[pczach]

This is a good breakdown that shows a lot of the deficiencies in the scheme, plus talks about the detailed stuff within the scheme that is just awful. The route concepts are embarrassing. It also shows some of what Pickett isn't doing well and missing opportunities. Good stuff with the breakdown. Horrible with knowing this is what we have been watching.

[El Kabong]

I remember hearing about Ben drawing up plays in the huddle.

[86WARD]

Another option that is quite possible without changing much up is moving Pickens (or another playmaker) around to different spots on the field with positive match ups to feed him the ball. That's something that's done on a regular basis with players. Remember 2010 Dwayne Bowe? 72 receptions, 1100 yards 15 TDs. The Chiefs, admittedly, had nothing at WR other than Bowe and Charlie Weis worked him around the field to get him match ups at different positions to feed him the ball and it worked. He told teams that's what he was doing and was still able to do it. Weis did the same with Golden Tate at Notre Dame when they lost Michael Floyd.

[pczach]

If they don’t install anything new it would be asinine . You can’t expect different results with same old BS. I realize it’s baby steps at this point. Either way I’m optimistic with Canada gone. Even worst case they don’t introduce new stuff atleast it’ll be different mindset and hopefully better situational awareness. Quit throwing 3 yard passes on 3rd and nine and get your playmakers more than 4 targets. KP stats are significantly better with play action yet Steelers bottom of league in use of it. There’s plenty of shit to improve on, I really hope we see a difference.

They have to do something to alter the offense or getting rid of Canada now doesn't really make any sense.

[Dwinsgames]

They have to do something to alter the offense or getting rid of Canada now doesn't really make any sense.

likely a handful of new plays is all we see ... perhaps some others that we may think are new due to limited or no use but still out of same playbook with same verbiage ...

does anyone think Eddie Faulkner was sitting around with a playbook full of plays he designed waiting for this moment to then in the course of 4 days teach it to the entire team to then put on display to the world this coming Sunday in a hostile environment ? I sure do not ..........

so if you do not believe he already had his own playbook design in waiting then you believe he had time to do all of the above and design a playbook too ....

I'm not a buyer ...

he will put in some standard plays that all teams run , he will use the current playbook as the basis of it all and use plays from the current playbook , he will also toss out many of them that simply do not work ... (assuming he is any good at this ) ... he could continue to do what Canada did if he is in over his head as well ???

I look for some version of the prior , new plays blended with old plays that were not used much along with the few that did work...verbiage will remain the same as well as it would be far to difficult to teach half the team new verbiage in just a few days along with everything else they would need to learn .... with perhaps 1 padded practice and 2 walk through ...

[Dwinsgames]

[pczach]

likely a handful of new plays is all we see ... perhaps some others that we may think are new due to limited or no use but still out of same playbook with same verbiage ...

does anyone think Eddie Faulkner was sitting around with a playbook full of plays he designed waiting for this moment to then in the course of 4 days teach it to the entire team to then put on display to the world this coming Sunday in a hostile environment ? I sure do not ..........

so if you do not believe he already had his own playbook design in waiting then you believe he had time to do all of the above and design a playbook too ....

I'm not a buyer ...

he will put in some standard plays that all teams run , he will use the current playbook as the basis of it all and use plays from the current playbook , he will also toss out many of them that simply do not work ... (assuming he is any good at this ) ... he could continue to do what Canada did if he is in over his head as well ???

I look for some version of the prior , new plays blended with old plays that were not used much along with the few that did work...verbiage will remain the same as well as it would be far to difficult to teach half the team new verbiage in just a few days along with everything else they would need to learn .... with perhaps 1 padded practice and 2 walk through ...

I don't know what they are going to do. There is no way to know.

I hope at the very least they tweak the plays currently in the playbook and improve some of the route combinations.

Get Pickett's input on what his favorite plays are. Use many of the plays he is most comfortable with.

They need to throw out some plays completely because they are trash.

Add more play action. Pickett has very good numbers in play action.

Work on better hot routes.

Give Pickett more authority and responsibility at the line of scrimmage.

So much needs to be done to improve the offense, but that would be a good start.

[tube517]

This reminds me of that clip with Boz saying " It ain't because of you" to someone as they walk into the locker room. That someone was Canada, who was walking in before Boz, celebrating the close win.

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[tube517]

One thing that has been glaringly missing and they did run it a couple weeks ago with some success has been the WR screen.

The RB screens were awful. So long to set up and the RBs have 3 people in their face as soon as they catch the ball. Turrible.



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[El-Gonzo Jackson]

likely a handful of new plays is all we see ... perhaps some others that we may think are new due to limited or no use but still out of same playbook with same verbiage ...
..

Agree, this is mostly what you can do on a game week. Might be a new package of plays, or expand a few more plays out of the same formation, so that some plays are not as recognizable from the pre snap formation.

One thing that isnt really discussed is the analytics portion of game film preparation. Film programs like DV Sport can help coaches and players drill down on tendencies pretty deep. Like "in the first half, from the own 35 yd. line and in, on 1st and 2nd down from a 11 personnel, 21 Pistol in 6 yards or more the Offense runs to the field side 38% of the time".

So if players were saying that the offense was predictable to opposing defenses, maybe some formations or personnel packages had limited plays from those formations, which made tendencies so much easier to read. Adding a few more plays to a set and having some new eyes calling plays can make defenses go deeper into the film study and not have such predictable plays based on the analytics.

[Steeler-in-west]

I just hope they had DJ working overtime with KP on passing plays to get on the same page, cause half way through the season they weren’t

and if they have Pickens in isolation 1:1, tweak the play so that KP goes to him instead of going throwing to Warren on the defense heavy side

[steelreserve]

I for one will completely disagree with the "can't change the offense in the middle of the season" rhetoric. Of course you can change it.

EVERY receiver knows how to run a slant, knows how to run a curl, knows how to run a post or a sideline route, etc. To claim that they are all so stupid that if you tell them to run a middle route this time instead of a sideline dump, they won't know how to do it, is just asinine. Running plays are running plays, there are a handful of basic things you can do and then you have different ways you,can kine up and different ways you.can block that you can use to execute those things. You don't need to change anything about the running plays we already have, just when you call them. It's not that the running plays themselves are bad, they just use shit plays before them and shit plays after them and perpetually set up a shit situation of which the OC had NO awareness.

No audible or two-minute offense would EVER work if things were so inflexible as people claim. No offense would work at all if substitutes had to come in or guys had to shift positions due to injury.

Sure, you probably can't introduce a ton of new formations and blocking schemes in the middle of the season or anything like that. But nobody needs to do that. Just be smarter about what you call when, and make small variations that every skill position player already knows since middle school. You are not married to stupidity just because one knucklehead liked it.

[DesertSteel]

Is there any other team that runs this ridiculous system of having an “offensive coordinator” and a separate play caller? Seems utterly stupid and dysfunctional to me.

[86WARD]

Is there any other team that runs this ridiculous system of having an “offensive coordinator” and a separate play caller? Seems utterly stupid and dysfunctional to me.

There are teams that do that. There’s also teams that have those coordinators and the head cia h calls the play. Also teams that had no coordinators.

The coordinator is more or less responsible for organizing meetings and all that non-sense. If the definition of OC is the play caller, then that would be Mike Sullivan for those who believe that definition.

[DesertSteel]

There are teams that do that. There’s also teams that have those coordinators and the head cia h calls the play. Also teams that had no coordinators.

The coordinator is more or less responsible for organizing meetings and all that non-sense. If the definition of OC is the play caller, then that would be Mike Sullivan for those who believe that definition.

I know of teams where the HC calls the plays. But tell me what team has an OC and a Play Caller.

[Penglose]

I know of teams where the HC calls the plays. But tell me what team has an OC and a Play Caller.

I think they're just trying to manage this as best they can under the conditions. I doubt it's long term.

[86WARD]

I know of teams where the HC calls the plays. But tell me what team has an OC and a Play Caller.

I’m not sure many go through a full season like that. The Broncos did it when hackett gave up play calling and I think that the Rams have let the QB coach call plays at times as well.

Faulkner is just in charge of coordinating meetings and game plans. Sullivan is just the voice in Kenny’s ear…which is probably most comfortable for him. All they are are titles, they probably all do the exact same thing as a group that they would normally do as a group.

[DesertSteel]

Yeah it’s dysfunctional as I thought.

[Mojouw]

I for one will completely disagree with the "can't change the offense in the middle of the season" rhetoric. Of course you can change it.

EVERY receiver knows how to run a slant, knows how to run a curl, knows how to run a post or a sideline route, etc. To claim that they are all so stupid that if you tell them to run a middle route this time instead of a sideline dump, they won't know how to do it, is just asinine. Running plays are running plays, there are a handful of basic things you can do and then you have different ways you,can kine up and different ways you.can block that you can use to execute those things. You don't need to change anything about the running plays we already have, just when you call them. It's not that the running plays themselves are bad, they just use shit plays before them and shit plays after them and perpetually set up a shit situation of which the OC had NO awareness.

No audible or two-minute offense would EVER work if things were so inflexible as people claim. No offense would work at all if substitutes had to come in or guys had to shift positions due to injury.

Sure, you probably can't introduce a ton of new formations and blocking schemes in the middle of the season or anything like that. But nobody needs to do that. Just be smarter about what you call when, and make small variations that every skill position player already knows since middle school. You are not married to stupidity just because one knucklehead liked it.

It should be as you outline. But I don’t believe that’s reality at all.

This is the same league where WRs regularly talk about how it was X years into their career where they learned how to run NFL level routes. So you tell some of these guys to run a curl and they’re going to run some version of it rather than the specific number of steps and landmarks with timing that the OC was thinking of.

Lineman and RBs talk about how it takes them years to learn how to do basic things effectively in the NFL.

I think they can do more than nothing over the next few weeks but I think it’s going to be less than we’re all hoping for.

[Rotorhead]

It should be as you outline. But I don’t believe that’s reality at all.

This is the same league where WRs regularly talk about how it was X years into their career where they learned how to run NFL level routes. So you tell some of these guys to run a curl and they’re going to run some version of it rather than the specific number of steps and landmarks with timing that the OC was thinking of.

Lineman and RBs talk about how it takes them years to learn how to do basic things effectively in the NFL.

I think they can do more than nothing over the next few weeks but I think it’s going to be less than we’re all hoping for.

I don’t know what you are hoping for, I am just hoping for steady improvement each week and some signs that KP is improving each week. Also for us to actually GP.

[Born2Steel]

I know of teams where the HC calls the plays. But tell me what team has an OC and a Play Caller.

I don't know how things actually were in KC, but I thought that was why EB left. He was the OC but Reid was thought of as the play caller. I also don't think it was a hinderance for that team either way.
What I do know is EB has turned Sam Howell into Jameis Winston. He has thrown for both the most yards in the league, and the most interceptions in the league. So maybe Mahomes is the actually qualifying component?

[Mojouw]

I don’t know what you are hoping for, I am just hoping for steady improvement each week and some signs that KP is improving each week. Also for us to actually GP.

I don’t think anyone can improve in a meaningful way until they’re taught about how an entire offense actually works.

KP doesn’t look like he works progressions or even understands where his progressions would be.

The OL regularly turns pass rushers loose while the block some random patch of grass.

The WRs run random routes often at half speed.

The RBs get the ball on plays that have no chance to successfully block the # of defenders to a side.

All of it looks, to me, like a heavily siloed offense. No one understands why they’re doing what they are doing, much less what anyone else is doing that works with what they’re doing to achieve some overall goal.

And I think the average NFL player and average NFL coaches are not able to correct/improve that during an NFL season.

They might be able to eliminate the truly pointless plays. Hopefully get away from totally tipping their play calls. And maybe shake up tendencies overall.

But I just can’t convince myself that KPs going to suddenly be firing over the middle to guys running free between the hashes. And that plays are suddenly going to demonstrate internal coordination where pre snap motion, formation, and route combinations all work together with blocking to create a high percentage completion to a specific target. Nor do I think that play 5 is going to set up something that can help “fool” the defense on play 35.

And, if we take the idea that it’s not clear how to evaluate players without a proper offensive system, then these last few weeks are still not going to provide clarity.

[pczach]

I don’t think anyone can improve in a meaningful way until they’re taught about how an entire offense actually works.

KP doesn’t look like he works progressions or even understands where his progressions would be.

The OL regularly turns pass rushers loose while the block some random patch of grass.

The WRs run random routes often at half speed.

The RBs get the ball on plays that have no chance to successfully block the # of defenders to a side.

All of it looks, to me, like a heavily siloed offense. No one understands why they’re doing what they are doing, much less what anyone else is doing that works with what they’re doing to achieve some overall goal.

And I think the average NFL player and average NFL coaches are not able to correct/improve that during an NFL season.

They might be able to eliminate the truly pointless plays. Hopefully get away from totally tipping their play calls. And maybe shake up tendencies overall.

But I just can’t convince myself that KPs going to suddenly be firing over the middle to guys running free between the hashes. And that plays are suddenly going to demonstrate internal coordination where pre snap motion, formation, and route combinations all work together with blocking to create a high percentage completion to a specific target. Nor do I think that play 5 is going to set up something that can help “fool” the defense on play 35.

And, if we take the idea that it’s not clear how to evaluate players without a proper offensive system, then these last few weeks are still not going to provide clarity.

Unfortunately, you are identifying just some of the crap that this offense does routinely.

I have been saying they can make changes and add plays to this offense, but that is slowly over the rest of the season. They can't do everything at once.

At first I thought that they may have been making a mistake having Faulkner as OC and Sullivan play caller. I think it may actually make a lot of sense.

The separate duties will allow Faulkner to really dig into the offensive system. Really get input from everywhere as to what is working and what is not. He can talk to Pickett and go over things with Tomlin about first and foremost figuring out what they do well, and running more plays that Pickett likes. They can run more play action that is already in the playbook. That is what Pickett has done pretty well. He can talk to the players and also study what other teams are doing with similar plays as the season goes on. And he can make whatever changes they are able to make with the limited time to do it.

In the meantime, Sullivan can be working with Pickett on whatever changes there are, plus maybe try to undo some of what Canada was trying to drill into Pickett's head and streamline what information is going in and coming out for Pickett while simultaneously explaining the why with throws and where his eyes should go. In other words, Sullivan is the middle man between anything new that Faulkner comes up with and will act like a tutor for Pickett. If Sullivan can help Pickett understand the small stuff and see the direction they are trying to take him, I think it will help Pickett a lot. I think Sullivan will have a better understanding of what to call that works better for Pickett and that will create a better comfort level for Kenny on the field.

There is so much that needs to improve as you alluded to in your post, but if they figure out the things that were the worst things and eliminate them while continuing to build on what they do best, there can be tangible improvement.

Luckily, just having players once again believe in what they are doing will make a difference.

Of course, all this is dependent on if the new coaches in place can do a better job than Matt Canada did and clean up the scheme. I am betting that they can improve things because so much of the offense is bad. Only time will tell, but I can't wait to see what they can come up with over the next 7 weeks.