Herbig the Younger and 2023 Expectations

[Mojouw]

I have no idea where this truly belongs, but I thought Herbig the Younger (need to workshop a better moniker) is garnering enough attention with this on-field play to merit his own thread.

Here are my scattered thoughts and want to hear from others about theirs.

1. Herbig is doing what he did at Wisco. He has always had a relentless attacking presence on the field. Honestly, whenever the Badgers needed a big play in the past few seasons, you kinda thought to yourself that "Well, seems about time for Herbig to make something happen." and then he did.
2. When in doubt, Herbig will always make the aggressive mistake. This is not a guy to sit back and wait and see what happens on the field. He is going to go 100 miles an hour towards the action. And he will always choose violence of action over reading it out and hoping someone else does a thing.
3. The Big 310 or however many teams they are up to now has such a wide gap in talent between the top 2 tiers of teams (Ohio State and Michigan are in Tier 1 and then there is a rotating grab bag of teams like UW and Iowa that are in Tier 2) and then all the rest of the schools that I have a really hard time judging just how athletic and how good some of the guys truly are. I cautioned during the draft process that both Herbig and Benton had questions about overall athleticism and the fact that sometimes the seemed to disappear against higher level competition. I figured Benton wouldn't be a pass rush presence in the NFL and I was sure that Herbig was too small and a not fast enough to play the edge on Sundays. Ignoring Benton for now (just wanted to acknowledge that I am likely wrong on him as well!), but man...guess I really missed on Herbig? I mean in my defense, almost everyone (except Tomlin and Company) had him moved inside in the NFL - but still....

So one of my questions, is what are you all seeing? Is Herbig viable as an OLB long-term in the NFL? Like if he has to play all the snaps and not just pass rush -- will it work? Does he start as a rotational edge rusher and then have to move inside to find an every down home? Or does he have a combination of traits that make it not matter that he is undersized and he can stick on the edge?

[tube517]

https://steelersdepot.com/2023/08/he...e-nick-herbig/

Pretty good breakdown by Baldy. I had my doubts as well with Little Herbig being undersized for an edge rusher but he has impressed in both preseason games.

[pczach]

I have no idea where this truly belongs, but I thought Herbig the Younger (need to workshop a better moniker) is garnering enough attention with this on-field play to merit his own thread.

Here are my scattered thoughts and want to hear from others about theirs.

1. Herbig is doing what he did at Wisco. He has always had a relentless attacking presence on the field. Honestly, whenever the Badgers needed a big play in the past few seasons, you kinda thought to yourself that "Well, seems about time for Herbig to make something happen." and then he did.
2. When in doubt, Herbig will always make the aggressive mistake. This is not a guy to sit back and wait and see what happens on the field. He is going to go 100 miles an hour towards the action. And he will always choose violence of action over reading it out and hoping someone else does a thing.
3. The Big 310 or however many teams they are up to now has such a wide gap in talent between the top 2 tiers of teams (Ohio State and Michigan are in Tier 1 and then there is a rotating grab bag of teams like UW and Iowa that are in Tier 2) and then all the rest of the schools that I have a really hard time judging just how athletic and how good some of the guys truly are. I cautioned during the draft process that both Herbig and Benton had questions about overall athleticism and the fact that sometimes the seemed to disappear against higher level competition. I figured Benton wouldn't be a pass rush presence in the NFL and I was sure that Herbig was too small and a not fast enough to play the edge on Sundays. Ignoring Benton for now (just wanted to acknowledge that I am likely wrong on him as well!), but man...guess I really missed on Herbig? I mean in my defense, almost everyone (except Tomlin and Company) had him moved inside in the NFL - but still....

So one of my questions, is what are you all seeing? Is Herbig viable as an OLB long-term in the NFL? Like if he has to play all the snaps and not just pass rush -- will it work? Does he start as a rotational edge rusher and then have to move inside to find an every down home? Or does he have a combination of traits that make it not matter that he is undersized and he can stick on the edge?

I agree with your assessment of his style of play at Wisconsin. He is a very aggressive player that attacks with a relentlessness. He never stops coming. He never gives up.

He has natural pass rushing abilities. He has a great get off with his quickness combined with some solid pass rush moves and hand usage. He has unreal bend to be able to get around the edge and finish. He reminds me of Highsmith his rookie season.

I am still worried about his size just a little bit. But I know he can play. I still believe he needs one offseason to put on about 15-20 lbs of muscle to get bigger and stronger to be able to hold up if he had to play every down. I think he would get worn down at his current weight. If he can put on some weight and add strength while maintaining his quickness and flexibility, he is going to be a real player for a long time IMO. He appears to have the ability to go all Gumby out on the field and with his combination of bend, balance, quickness, and motor, he is a nightmare. You could already see growth in his game at the pro level. His hand usage is better and his moves seem a bit more developed and smooth. Having TJ Watt showing you some tricks of the trade isn't hurting. That's for sure.

To me, I just see a natural playmaker that has the physical tools, some freaky traits, and the desire to get better. Attached to a real feel for the game, great instincts, and motor like that, he can wreak havoc. I think he is going to be a real player. That's my opinion on him based on what he has shown me thus far. He needs to show that he can do this against quality starting offensive tackles, but if he gets stronger and bigger, keeps working on hand usage and keeps his quickness, I think he's a stud.

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

He has the speed and motor to get past the other teams lines and that is all that matters, He has a high motor and good moves as well. amazing he is showing his skills right away for a rookie. He has plenty of time to get better because of the good players in front of him.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Herbig was whooping Dion Dawkins too, thats the Bills starting tackle. Not just some backups.

[BlackAndGold]

Watt, Highsmith, Herbig as the EDGE trio for the next couple of years...

[Dwinsgames]

Watt, Highsmith, Herbig as the EDGE trio for the next couple of years...

and keep picking up that solid vet that slips through the cracks too Like we did with Marcus Golden (whom can still play and play well)

[BlackAndGold]

and keep picking up that solid vet that slips through the cracks too Like we did with Marcus Golden (whom can still play and play well)

Yep. Golden played good last night, Herbig simply stole the spotlight.

[86WARD]

3. The Big 310 or however many teams they are up to now has such a wide gap in talent between the top 2 tiers of teams (Ohio State and Michigan are in Tier 1 and then there is a rotating grab bag of teams like UW and Iowa that are in Tier 2) and then all the rest of the schools that I have a really hard time judging just how athletic and how good some of the guys truly are. I cautioned during the draft process that both Herbig and Benton had questions about overall athleticism and the fact that sometimes the seemed to disappear against higher level competition. I figured Benton wouldn't be a pass rush presence in the NFL and I was sure that Herbig was too small and a not fast enough to play the edge on Sundays. Ignoring Benton for now (just wanted to acknowledge that I am likely wrong on him as well!), but man...guess I really missed on Herbig? I mean in my defense, almost everyone (except Tomlin and Company) had him moved inside in the NFL - but still....

Definitely would NOT put Michigan in Tier 1. Ohio State is far and away the tops in the Big Ten since 2013 (just picking last 10 years). Michigan, Penn State, Wisconsin, Iowa are all pretty much the same. PSU/Michigan are even in their last 12, Michigan, I think have beaten OSU last two but overall, OSU owns them.

Point is OSU is far and away the cream of the crop and Michigan is just living in their world with the rest of the Big 310…lol

[Mojouw]

Definitely would NOT put Michigan in Tier 1. Ohio State is far and away the tops in the Big Ten since 2013 (just picking last 10 years). Michigan, Penn State, Wisconsin, Iowa are all pretty much the same. PSU/Michigan are even in their last 12, Michigan, I think have beaten OSU last two but overall, OSU owns them.

Point is OSU is far and away the cream of the crop and Michigan is just living in their world with the rest of the Big 310…lol

Michigan's on field results have been bad but I do think they live in a different tier then the rest along with OSU in the caliber of athletes they can and do recruit. Maybe I am underestimating the level of recruits PSU gets? I don't know. I do know that under the last 2 regimes, UW was not able to recruit at the same level. The new regime seems to be changing that by promising to play a brand of football not rooted in the 1930's....but that is a whole other conversation.

[86WARD]

Michigan's on field results have been bad but I do think they live in a different tier then the rest along with OSU in the caliber of athletes they can and do recruit. Maybe I am underestimating the level of recruits PSU gets? I don't know. I do know that under the last 2 regimes, UW was not able to recruit at the same level. The new regime seems to be changing that by promising to play a brand of football not rooted in the 1930's....but that is a whole other conversation.

Penn State has been getting a lot of good recruiting classes. I would say it’s roughly ranked close to Michigan.

I checked this interesting look…they are close. Some cases Michigan was better and other Penn State was better.

https://247sports.com/Season/2022-Fo...eTeamRankings/

Penn States infield problem comes when they play those Top-5 teams. They stay close but then find a way to choke it away…

[pczach]

Penn State has been getting a lot of good recruiting classes. I would say it’s roughly ranked close to Michigan.

I checked this interesting look…they are close. Some cases Michigan was better and other Penn State was better.

https://247sports.com/Season/2022-Fo...eTeamRankings/

Penn States infield problem comes when they play those Top-5 teams. They stay close but then find a way to choke it away…

James Franklin is a good coach. He's a great recruiter, but he never seems to be able to get the team over the top. Not the best X's and O's guy, and he is sometimes too loyal to quarterbacks or makes a dumb decision on gameday. I like the guy. He seems like a good man. He already had Will Levis leave because he stayed with Sean Clifford at QB for like 6 seasons. A few better decisions and a lucky break or two away from playing for a couple national championships.

We will see if he can get over the hump.

Penn State had been a better program than Michigan for about 8-9 years. Michigan now appears to be back. Harbaugh suspended for 3 games because of recruiting violations(which explains a lot).

Ohio State is the standard in the conference, with Penn State and Michigan just behind. Wisconsin is a quality program that isn't quite what they were several years ago. The rest of the teams that are getting credit are only viable because they haven't played in the more challenging division. OSU, PSU, and Michigan have all been in the same division. Another horrendous move by the Big10 leadership when that was set up. They limited their own chances for national championships with that unbalanced division setup.

The new structure of the conference should help solve some of that, if they don't find a way to screw that up too.

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

Penn State has been getting a lot of good recruiting classes. I would say it’s roughly ranked close to Michigan.

I checked this interesting look…they are close. Some cases Michigan was better and other Penn State was better.

https://247sports.com/Season/2022-Fo...eTeamRankings/

Penn States infield problem comes when they play those Top-5 teams. They stay close but then find a way to choke it away…

They was dominating Ohio State in the game last year till the 4th Q and then they failed apart and made all kinda mistakes.

[86WARD]

James Franklin is a good coach. He's a great recruiter, but he never seems to be able to get the team over the top. Not the best X's and O's guy, and he is sometimes too loyal to quarterbacks or makes a dumb decision on gameday. I like the guy. He seems like a good man. He already had Will Levis leave because he stayed with Sean Clifford at QB for like 6 seasons. A few better decisions and a lucky break or two away from playing for a couple national championships.

That’s the problem with Franklin…

[86WARD]

There’s a funny clip out there from Fridays game that has Tomlin on the sideline asking a couple players if they know any other player on the team that may have a little brother.

[86WARD]

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CwQ-1...RlODBiNWFlZA==

[86WARD]

Baldy’s breakdown of Herbig

https://www.facebook.com/reel/809764...ibextid=0NULKw

[HollywoodSteel]

Herbig is PFF’s highest graded day 2 or 3 rookie defender with a 90.6.

But who cares about that. It’s his quote about black & gold in his blood that makes him my favorite rookie by far.

Of course JP Jr. handing that intercepted ball to the old man kind of got me right in the ticker as well.

[Dreegking]

The whole Herbig moving inside talk when drafted and after being drafted was so funny to listen to. I hope you all are laughing at yourselves now. And you 100 or so know who you are.

and yet it still comes up in this thread. Crazy hilarious.

and anyone who thinks he can’t set the edge even better and better over time and put on 10 to 20 pounds - go challenge yourselves to look at rookie Watt and mature Watt, what’s the size difference? Now do the same with Highsmith. I mean, come on!?

[Mojouw]

I’ve repeatedly owned that I thought he’d move inside. And I still do.

Herbig as a full time edge would be like a 1 of 1 with his size and length.

I think he plays edge as a rookie to impact in a rotation. Then look for them to add things to his plate. Maybe a package with Highsmith and Watt like they did Highsmith rookie year.

If, by the end of the season we see Herbig more in space…who knows where he ends up long term.