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  1. #31
    Senior Member Array title="Steeler-in-west has a reputation beyond repute"> Steeler-in-west's Avatar

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    Re: Global warming my ass

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkman View Post
    Not really my point at all…..but okay, we have the largest number of metro systems in the world. Could there be more, I’m sure, but who exactly are we behind? I can take a train just about anywhere I’d like to go, and I often do. I’ve taken the high speed Acela train to Washington numerous times. I’ve taken the Silver Star and Silver Meteor to New York (Very civilized way to travel). I’ve taken the Chicago Limited from Pittsburgh to Chicago. I’d love to see more lines, but to bring this back to my real point…..to do that, you need tons more rail, more tunnels dug, much more rail inventory, (engines, cars, maintenance vehicles,etc). What do you suppose the carbon footprint would be on all of that. If you are going to redirect (we’ve only sent 75 billion in support of stalling the spread of Communism, not hundreds of billions), tax dollars…..have a plan don’t just throw money at it. The federal government is not responsible for city and municipality mass transit. They will help with the cost, but it’s up to that city and municipality to come up with creative ways to finance. The closest thing we have to a national railway system is Amtrak, and I have had good luck with them. Blanket statements don’t really achieve much of anything.
    As i understand it you were saying that electric vehicles produce a huge carbon footprint. My point is that the only way to really avoid this huge increase in vehicle production and associated waste is by expanding public transportation. And your not portraying the real problem with mass transit. There is only one high speed rail in the US (that's the Acela at 150 mph) which you mentioned. However, just for instance, It takes the better part of a week to take a train from LA to NY - and its not much cheaper than taking a 6 hour flight - no wonder no one does it. Europe/Russia meanwhile are full of high speed trains (200 mph). China has the world largest concentration of high speed rail (up to 220 mph). Here in California we don't even have a train going from LA to Las Vegas or a high speed rail going to SF, not to mention the lack of any decent subway/rail system in LA city and county (we used to have the red car trains back in the day before the auto companies had them removed). The funds for mass transit btw, come from the state - which gets a portion of its funding for transportation from the federal government so your partially right. Bottom line is we are woefully behind in mass transit in this country. there is alot to improve upon. If your worried about the effects of gas powered cars or the rising carbon footprint from EV's better to start with improving mass transit.

    As far as spending on Ukraine your right, its 75 billion - but feels like more. Btw, if you think we're spending that to fight communism than i have a bridge in brooklyn to sell you.

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    Re: Global warming my ass

    There are several things on the mass transit issue, that I feel do not discussed enough.

    Hawk and Steelers in West have brought up several that fall under the umbrella of electric vehicles are not a solution but (at best) a temporary band-aid until a real solution is invented.

    Others include the fact that statements (not made by anyone here) like "Why can't we have a mass transit system like (Insert European Example Here)?" -- Well, that country is smaller than the state of Maryland that's why. I think that we often lose perspective on just how stupendously large the US really is. There is zero point in putting a mass transit system outside of metro areas. It just isn't realistic. Too large of an expanse and too few people. Cars and trucks will always need to be part of the "solution" for the US. The scale of the place necessitates it.

    The other, and this is a personal gripe of mine, is that in the early days of the recycle movement (think crying fake Indians), corporations and manufacturers poured money into controlling the message and they succeeded in flummoxing everyone. Recycling/Renew/Sustainability (whatever you want to call it) has become ingrained in the US conversation as an individual issue and a solution at the household level. And even if EVERY household did ALL of the things 100% the way it was hoped -- it would be a drop in the ocean. Large scale industry dwarfs anything done by even aggregations of individuals. But by controlling the messaging for decades, industry has made this an individual issue. And as long as we still talk/think about it that way...nothing will change.

    That circles back to electric vehicles. Because we have been convinced that individual decisions are the key to all this; people buy electric vehicles and are like "I'm doing a good thing!" Never stopping and thinking about the source of the electricity and the toxic nature of the creation and disposal of the battery that powers their fancy vehicle.

    As has been pointed out before by several around these parts....nuclear power might be this actual solution sitting right in front of us and no one is willing to discuss it because it suffers from the worst case of "not in my backyard" ever. Plus there is the vexing issue of where do you dump all the byproducts....

  3. #33
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    Re: Global warming my ass

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    There are several things on the mass transit issue, that I feel do not discussed enough.

    Hawk and Steelers in West have brought up several that fall under the umbrella of electric vehicles are not a solution but (at best) a temporary band-aid until a real solution is invented.

    Others include the fact that statements (not made by anyone here) like "Why can't we have a mass transit system like (Insert European Example Here)?" -- Well, that country is smaller than the state of Maryland that's why. I think that we often lose perspective on just how stupendously large the US really is. There is zero point in putting a mass transit system outside of metro areas. It just isn't realistic. Too large of an expanse and too few people. Cars and trucks will always need to be part of the "solution" for the US. The scale of the place necessitates it.

    The other, and this is a personal gripe of mine, is that in the early days of the recycle movement (think crying fake Indians), corporations and manufacturers poured money into controlling the message and they succeeded in flummoxing everyone. Recycling/Renew/Sustainability (whatever you want to call it) has become ingrained in the US conversation as an individual issue and a solution at the household level. And even if EVERY household did ALL of the things 100% the way it was hoped -- it would be a drop in the ocean. Large scale industry dwarfs anything done by even aggregations of individuals. But by controlling the messaging for decades, industry has made this an individual issue. And as long as we still talk/think about it that way...nothing will change.

    That circles back to electric vehicles. Because we have been convinced that individual decisions are the key to all this; people buy electric vehicles and are like "I'm doing a good thing!" Never stopping and thinking about the source of the electricity and the toxic nature of the creation and disposal of the battery that powers their fancy vehicle.

    As has been pointed out before by several around these parts....nuclear power might be this actual solution sitting right in front of us and no one is willing to discuss it because it suffers from the worst case of "not in my backyard" ever. Plus there is the vexing issue of where do you dump all the byproducts....
    The American West contains hundreds of thousands of square miles of the most empty land you have seen in your entire life. That is the answer to where you put as much nuclear stuff as you want. It is a simple problem to solve, except that a certain group of politicians does not want there to be a solution, they want to keep dragging on the climate game indefinitely because it helps them increase their own influence, control, spending, etc.

    This is why it's hard to take it very seriously when someone tells you the climate situation is an emergency. If it really was a crisis with any sort of urgency at all, there are very straightforward actions that could be taken to solve it right now with existing technology. Instead we get a lot of posturing and a lot of make-work that does not seem to benefit anyone or anything except politically well-connected companies, and those who enjoy telling others what to do from their morally superior perch. It really says something that a certain horsefaced New York congressperson who is adored by the left once said we need a new Manhattan Project to bring us clean energy, apparently completely unaware of the results of the original Manhattan Project.

    All of the other things you said about personal versus industrial consumption and differences in scale are absolutely true. However, I would say that they are all pointed out very frequently but dismissed or shouted down by those same zealots who love to tell everyone what to do, and by the politically well-connected who stand to benefit. It's not as if no one is talking about those things. They are brought up repeatedly. They are just filtered out before they make it into the great blue echo chamber, where the only people who believe such things must be a bunch of toothless pig farmers who drive large pickup trucks with confederate flag bumper stickers.
    See you Space Cowboy ...

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    Re: Global warming my ass


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    Re: Global warming my ass

    Quote Originally Posted by Steeler-in-west View Post
    As i understand it you were saying that electric vehicles produce a huge carbon footprint. My point is that the only way to really avoid this huge increase in vehicle production and associated waste is by expanding public transportation. And your not portraying the real problem with mass transit. There is only one high speed rail in the US (that's the Acela at 150 mph) which you mentioned. However, just for instance, It takes the better part of a week to take a train from LA to NY - and its not much cheaper than taking a 6 hour flight - no wonder no one does it. Europe/Russia meanwhile are full of high speed trains (200 mph). China has the world largest concentration of high speed rail (up to 220 mph). Here in California we don't even have a train going from LA to Las Vegas or a high speed rail going to SF, not to mention the lack of any decent subway/rail system in LA city and county (we used to have the red car trains back in the day before the auto companies had them removed). The funds for mass transit btw, come from the state - which gets a portion of its funding for transportation from the federal government so your partially right. Bottom line is we are woefully behind in mass transit in this country. there is alot to improve upon. If your worried about the effects of gas powered cars or the rising carbon footprint from EV's better to start with improving mass transit.

    As far as spending on Ukraine your right, its 75 billion - but feels like more. Btw, if you think we're spending that to fight communism than i have a bridge in brooklyn to sell you.
    I was following along until you made that juvenile last statement. Lost all credibility with me.

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    Re: Global warming my ass

    Quote Originally Posted by steelreserve View Post
    ............................................

    This is why it's hard to take it very seriously when someone tells you the climate situation is an emergency. If it really was a crisis with any sort of urgency at all, there are very straightforward actions that could be taken to solve it right now with existing technology...........
    Just because we're stupid doesn't mean it isn't a crisis. Just look at you.

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    Re: Global warming my ass

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkman View Post
    I was following along until you made that juvenile last statement. Lost all credibility with me.
    I’m not trying to be rude, just trying to point out that the ‘fighting communism’ reason is outdated. I don’t even hear the MSM use that reason these days.

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    Re: Global warming my ass

    Quote Originally Posted by Steeler-in-west View Post
    I’m not trying to be rude, just trying to point out that the ‘fighting communism’ reason is outdated. I don’t even hear the MSM use that reason these days.
    Think about it, liberals don't want to fight communism, they embrace it. So that aspect is not talked about much anymore.

    But these are the people who think the Palestinians are the same thing as the Rebel Alliance, and get all wrapped up in virtue signaling do-goodership. Same thing going on with Ukraine, they gain social approval from their peers by supporting it.
    See you Space Cowboy ...

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    Senior Member Array title="Steeler-in-west has a reputation beyond repute"> Steeler-in-west's Avatar

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    Re: Global warming my ass

    Quote Originally Posted by steelreserve View Post
    Think about it, liberals don't want to fight communism, they embrace it. So that aspect is not talked about much anymore.

    But these are the people who think the Palestinians are the same thing as the Rebel Alliance, and get all wrapped up in virtue signaling do-goodership. Same thing going on with Ukraine, they gain social approval from their peers by supporting it.
    The left hates the Russians because they refuse to allow unchecked migrants overrun their country and don’t allow wokeness to ruin their people and culture like the rest of Europe does.

    Meanwhile the West’s Democratic darling country Ukraine just arrested a US citizen residing there for posting his opinion on YouTube. His opinion was opposition to the war - 5 to 8 years in a labor camp for posting a YouTube video - real shining light of democracy the left is supporting there
    Last edited by Steeler-in-west; 08-04-2023 at 11:07 PM.

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    Re: Global warming my ass

    Quote Originally Posted by Steeler-in-west View Post
    The left hates the Russians because they refuse to allow unchecked migrants overrun their country and don’t allow wokeness to ruin their people and culture like the rest of Europe does.

    Meanwhile the West’s Democratic darling country Ukraine just arrested a US citizen residing there for posting his opinion on YouTube. His opinion was opposition to the war - 5 to 8 years in a labor camp for posting a YouTube video - real shining light of democracy the left is supporting there

    smh .............. and that is what Bidens administration is trying to do here
    Kenny Pickett is who I though he was .. Eagles didn't value him either , now he is a Stain at the Mistake by the Lake 3 teams in 4 years more of a shooting star than a superstar

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    Re: Global warming my ass

    Quote Originally Posted by Steeler-in-west View Post
    The left hates the Russians because they refuse to allow unchecked migrants overrun their country and don’t allow wokeness to ruin their people and culture like the rest of Europe does.

    Meanwhile the West’s Democratic darling country Ukraine just arrested a US citizen residing there for posting his opinion on YouTube. His opinion was opposition to the war - 5 to 8 years in a labor camp for posting a YouTube video - real shining light of democracy the left is supporting there
    ^^^^ Imagine? I knew it but I never thought I'd see it writing. Wow!

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    Re: Global warming my ass

    Quote Originally Posted by Steeler-in-west View Post
    The left hates the Russians because they refuse to allow unchecked migrants overrun their country and don’t allow wokeness to ruin their people and culture like the rest of Europe does.

    Meanwhile the West’s Democratic darling country Ukraine just arrested a US citizen residing there for posting his opinion on YouTube. His opinion was opposition to the war - 5 to 8 years in a labor camp for posting a YouTube video - real shining light of democracy the left is supporting there
    If you want to compare Russia and the EU culturally, absolutely the EU is just dogshit.

    On the other hand, I don't think it's a good thing that the leader of Russia is a dangerous megalomaniac who has started several brutal wars.

    On the other hand, the leftists running the EU are also dangerous megalomaniacs - they just want to poison everything by passing rules instead of destroying it with tanks.

    Screw the whole lot of them, that's about where I'm at.
    See you Space Cowboy ...

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    Re: Global warming my ass

    Quote Originally Posted by steelreserve View Post
    If you want to compare Russia and the EU culturally, absolutely the EU is just dogshit.

    On the other hand, I don't think it's a good thing that the leader of Russia is a dangerous megalomaniac who has started several brutal wars.

    On the other hand, the leftists running the EU are also dangerous megalomaniacs - they just want to poison everything by passing rules instead of destroying it with tanks.

    Screw the whole lot of them, that's about where I'm at.
    Who are the bigger megalomaniacs? Our leaders or theirs? I think its debatable, the real problem though is that it only takes one megalomaniac(s) with nuclear weapons to ruin everything. We're probably a lot closer to an accidental direct military engagement with them than our media likes to tell us...then its all over

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    Re: Global warming my ass

    New Claims of Record-Setting Temperatures Are Nothing but Hot Air

    Recently headlines in mainstream media such as the BBC, CNN, Forbes, and The Washington Post blared the consistent message that July 4, 2023 was the hottest day in history, or at least in the past 125,000 years. The headlines and stories show just how gullible the media is, or alternatively, that they are so wedded to the climate crisis narrative that they would publish a story they know is impossible to verify and is probably untrue.

    The Washington Post’s (WP) story was typical of the foolish claims in the mainstream media, “This July 4 was hot. Earth’s hottest day on record, in fact.” What the WP presented as a “fact” was nothing more than computer model speculation based on a wide variety of disparate types of data from satellite measurements to surface data, etc., blended and reanalyzed to produce an alarming but unsubstantiated result. Although the WP claimed the data was from the U.S. National Centers for Environmental Prediction, it wasn’t. The WP’s claims, as with those made in the headlines and alarming stories in other so-called news outlets, came from a single source: the “Climate Reanalyzer” at the Climate Change Institute at the University of Maine (UM).

    UM’s Climate Reanalyzer is not an official U.S. government source of data and does not produce original data. Instead, it manipulates and reframes data from other sources. Had the WP or other mainstream media outlets bothered to check with the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration about the claims of record-setting heat, they would have found the agency said surface temperature data does not confirm global high-temperature records were broken in early July.

    Still, Paulo Ceppi, a climate scientist at London’s Grantham Institute, told the WP with confidence, “It hasn’t been this warm since at least 125,000 years ago, which was the previous interglacial.” The WP apparently didn’t even think to question that claim.

    In addition to the fact that the idea of a “global average temperature” is a made-up statistic having no real weather or climate meaning, there were no weather satellites even 50 years ago, nor ground-based measuring stations in more than a smattering of locations more than 150 years ago, much less hundreds of thousands of years ago.

    “One obvious problem with the updated narrative is that there are no satellite data from 125,000 years ago,” wrote Steve Milloy, operator of JunkScience.com, in a Wall Street Journal article. “Calculated estimates of current temperatures can’t be fairly compared with guesses of global temperature from thousands of years ago.”

    Climate analyst Paul Homewood made a similar point, writing:

    The idea that we know the global temperature today is absurd in itself. But the idea that we actually know what it was on a given day 100 years ago, or 1000 years ago, never mind thousands of years ago is sheer fraud.

    And the claim that it is hotter now than 5,000 years ago is a total lie—there is abundant evidence that it was much warmer then.

    Worse still for the “hottest day ever narrative” is that the measured average temperature on July 4, actually recorded around the world, is much less than claimed. Milloy notes,

    A more likely alternative to the 62.6-degree estimate is something around 57.5 degrees. The latter is an average of actual surface temperature measurements taken around the world and processed on a minute-by-minute basis by a website called temperature.global. The numbers have been steady this year, with no spike in July.

    As Heartland Institute President James Taylor writes in a Climate Realism post on the topic, numerous sources such as the U.N. Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change and peer-reviewed research published in the journal Science show historic temperatures have been warmer for long stretches of time since we came out of the last ice age approximately 12,000 years ago, when human civilizations began to form, than they are at present. Taylor writes:

    [H]istorical temperatures derived from ice core samples, as reported in the peer-reviewed journal Science … shows the warming of the past 150 [years] leaves current temperatures well below temperatures that have predominated during most of the time period that human civilization has existed. (see the figure below)

    The chart below from the IPCC also contradicts the claim that July 4, 2023, or any of the days that followed, established new global temperature records:

    I’m not familiar enough with the UM’s Climate Reanalyzer to judge whether it is a useful tool for some purpose or set of purposes beyond generating alarming but false headlines about climate change. In any case, the “data” it generates, if it can be called that, should in no way, shape, or form be taken as authoritative or used in place of actual temperature measurements when presenting local, regional, or global average temperatures.

    The mainstream media should be ashamed of itself for hyping yet another big climate lie.
    https://cornwallalliance.org/2023/07...g-but-hot-air/


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  15. #45
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    Re: Global warming my ass

    I live in California. We didn't turn on the AC until mid-July. In 2022, we turned it on in mid-May.

    Hater = Realist

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    Re: Global warming my ass



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    Re: Global warming my ass


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    Re: Global warming my ass


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    Re: Global warming my ass

    Aug 18 2023 10:23 am 63 degrees ... Alexa say expect a high of 73 and sunshine ... yep that Global warming .............
    Kenny Pickett is who I though he was .. Eagles didn't value him either , now he is a Stain at the Mistake by the Lake 3 teams in 4 years more of a shooting star than a superstar

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    Re: Global warming my ass

    if global warming's in your ass i'd talk to a doctor about that
    Formerly known as Fire Goodell

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    Re: Global warming my ass

    I just recently bought a new car. I am the guy that researches everything for months before even narrowing it down to a top 5 models to buy. I did look at the no-plug hybrids pretty intently. The gas mileage on those was what attracted me, and the no-plug part. I did not buy one. The batteries in those cars are only expected to last 100k miles. Then, it's the price of another used car to replace the battery. Only way I would get one of those would be on a lease deal.

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    Re: Global warming my ass

    to damn cold to enjoy my deck in august .... yeah this is global warming alright but someone forgot the warm part ... ohh its 56 out right now
    Kenny Pickett is who I though he was .. Eagles didn't value him either , now he is a Stain at the Mistake by the Lake 3 teams in 4 years more of a shooting star than a superstar

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    Re: Global warming my ass

    It is going north of 100 the next several days in my area. Much of the country south of the Ohio River and east of the Rockies is ticketed for the same 100+ temps.

    So is that global warming? Or does the weather in only our respective hometowns matter?

    We can debate global warming and climate change like reasonable folks...no problem. But the specific weather on this guy or that guy's deck in August is not an indicator of much of anything besides how many layers you need to put on to drink outside.

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    Re: Global warming my ass

    I'm not sure why this is still an argument of extremes. We ALL know that certain gasses when leaked into the atmosphere cause the greenhouse effect. That is known. We also ALL know that climate changes. This planet Earth is a living planet. EVERYTHING is constantly changing. It's not man-made issues causing weather patterns or glacial movements.

    Can we as a species do things that will cause global damage and greenhouse issues that eventually kill all or most life on Earth? Yes. That is exactly what nuclear winter is. Can we as a species take measures to ensure things don't become that bad? Also yes.

    We want to continue to live on the only planet we know of that will support us. If that means I have to buy tote bags to put groceries into instead of plastic or paper, so be it. Not a huge deal in my life honestly. If everyone did that 1 thing would it make any difference overall? IDK, maybe, maybe not. But is it worth the high blood pressure debates on it? If person A decides to buy an all electric car because that's what they want, and person B buys a 12mpg, 40gal tank, biggest truck on the block, because that's what they want, it's just a preference. NOT some manifesto that we need to go to war over. Sometimes it is, but not usually.

    It seems to me that there has been so much extremist argument of so many minute details that can neither be proven nor disproven, that now any quarter given or compromise is considered utter defeat. When in reality it is the only path to success. Such pitiful little hills to be fighting over.

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    Re: Global warming my ass


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    Re: Global warming my ass

    Quote Originally Posted by steelreserve View Post
    The American West contains hundreds of thousands of square miles of the most empty land you have seen in your entire life. That is the answer to where you put as much nuclear stuff as you want. It is a simple problem to solve, except that a certain group of politicians does not want there to be a solution, they want to keep dragging on the climate game indefinitely because it helps them increase their own influence, control, spending, etc.

    This is why it's hard to take it very seriously when someone tells you the climate situation is an emergency. If it really was a crisis with any sort of urgency at all, there are very straightforward actions that could be taken to solve it right now with existing technology. Instead we get a lot of posturing and a lot of make-work that does not seem to benefit anyone or anything except politically well-connected companies, and those who enjoy telling others what to do from their morally superior perch. It really says something that a certain horsefaced New York congressperson who is adored by the left once said we need a new Manhattan Project to bring us clean energy, apparently completely unaware of the results of the original Manhattan Project.

    All of the other things you said about personal versus industrial consumption and differences in scale are absolutely true. However, I would say that they are all pointed out very frequently but dismissed or shouted down by those same zealots who love to tell everyone what to do, and by the politically well-connected who stand to benefit. It's not as if no one is talking about those things. They are brought up repeatedly. They are just filtered out before they make it into the great blue echo chamber, where the only people who believe such things must be a bunch of toothless pig farmers who drive large pickup trucks with confederate flag bumper stickers.
    Remember the electric bus scam the Dems pushed? It went bankrupt, as we all knew it would because it was designed to fail. Another pump-n-dump.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steeler-in-west View Post
    As i understand it you were saying that electric vehicles produce a huge carbon footprint. My point is that the only way to really avoid this huge increase in vehicle production and associated waste is by expanding public transportation. And your not portraying the real problem with mass transit. There is only one high speed rail in the US (that's the Acela at 150 mph) which you mentioned. However, just for instance, It takes the better part of a week to take a train from LA to NY - and its not much cheaper than taking a 6 hour flight - no wonder no one does it. Europe/Russia meanwhile are full of high speed trains (200 mph). China has the world largest concentration of high speed rail (up to 220 mph). Here in California we don't even have a train going from LA to Las Vegas or a high speed rail going to SF, not to mention the lack of any decent subway/rail system in LA city and county (we used to have the red car trains back in the day before the auto companies had them removed). The funds for mass transit btw, come from the state - which gets a portion of its funding for transportation from the federal government so your partially right. Bottom line is we are woefully behind in mass transit in this country. there is alot to improve upon. If your worried about the effects of gas powered cars or the rising carbon footprint from EV's better to start with improving mass transit.

    As far as spending on Ukraine your right, its 75 billion - but feels like more. Btw, if you think we're spending that to fight communism than i have a bridge in brooklyn to sell you.
    The crime and filth on public transportation will remain.

    California starts bullet train projects, but of course they were not meant to actually be built.

    Green energy nonsense is just a money scam.
    Hater = Realist

  28. #58
    Senior Member Array title="steelreserve has a reputation beyond repute"> steelreserve's Avatar

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    Re: Global warming my ass

    Quote Originally Posted by Born2Steel View Post
    Can we as a species do things that will cause global damage and greenhouse issues that eventually kill all or most life on Earth? Yes.
    I would say that is absolutely not the case. It is generally agreed upon that we have burned at least a third of the fossil fuels that will ever be recoverable on Earth. That's given us a temperature increase of what, 1 degree. Since the warming effectiveness of carbon dioxide increases in an inverse square relationship with the concentration, what do you get if you burn the other two-thirds? Another one degree. And then that's it, the most you can do. You can't make the planet uninhabitable and you can't make it like Venus, that much carbon-based fuel simply doesn't exist.

    So sure, you can change things, no one is denying the basic principle at work. But can you change them enough to even make a tangible difference in your/most people's lives? I suppose that's open to debate, but my guess is probably not. Certainly you cannot do what the people who are most freaked out about the climate say.

    Their argument is essentially saying what would happen if there was an infinite supply of carbon-based fuels which were consumed indefinitely. Of course, everyone knows that's not the case, if they take about 5 seconds to stop and think about it. But that does explain why climate change is always presented as an open-ended question with no definite parameters - because that's the only way you can get to those doomsday scenarios, by leaving out important parts of the equation.
    See you Space Cowboy ...

  29. #59
    Senior Member Array title="Mojouw has a reputation beyond repute"> Mojouw's Avatar

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    Re: Global warming my ass

    Quote Originally Posted by steelreserve View Post
    I would say that is absolutely not the case. It is generally agreed upon that we have burned at least a third of the fossil fuels that will ever be recoverable on Earth. That's given us a temperature increase of what, 1 degree. Since the warming effectiveness of carbon dioxide increases in an inverse square relationship with the concentration, what do you get if you burn the other two-thirds? Another one degree. And then that's it, the most you can do. You can't make the planet uninhabitable and you can't make it like Venus, that much carbon-based fuel simply doesn't exist.

    So sure, you can change things, no one is denying the basic principle at work. But can you change them enough to even make a tangible difference in your/most people's lives? I suppose that's open to debate, but my guess is probably not. Certainly you cannot do what the people who are most freaked out about the climate say.

    Their argument is essentially saying what would happen if there was an infinite supply of carbon-based fuels which were consumed indefinitely. Of course, everyone knows that's not the case, if they take about 5 seconds to stop and think about it. But that does explain why climate change is always presented as an open-ended question with no definite parameters - because that's the only way you can get to those doomsday scenarios, by leaving out important parts of the equation.
    Say that it all stops at 2 degree C temperature rise. Where do you propose big chunks of the eastern seaboard of the US lives? Miami does not exist with the generally accepted sea level rise associated with that amount of warming. Other coastal US cities are seriously compromised as well. Heck, during a previous administration, the DOD caused a crapstorm when they released a report saying 1-2 degrees of warming would basically cause an alarming percentage of their naval bases to cease to function both domestically and abroad (Diego Garcia as an example).

    What about the oodles of people globally that will be underwater?

    Or is the rough correlation of 2-3 meters in sea level rise per 1-2 degrees in temp rise not going to happen in this scenario?

  30. #60
    Senior Member Array title="steelreserve has a reputation beyond repute"> steelreserve's Avatar

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    Re: Global warming my ass

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Say that it all stops at 2 degree C temperature rise. Where do you propose big chunks of the eastern seaboard of the US lives? Miami does not exist with the generally accepted sea level rise associated with that amount of warming. Other coastal US cities are seriously compromised as well. Heck, during a previous administration, the DOD caused a crapstorm when they released a report saying 1-2 degrees of warming would basically cause an alarming percentage of their naval bases to cease to function both domestically and abroad (Diego Garcia as an example).

    What about the oodles of people globally that will be underwater?

    Or is the rough correlation of 2-3 meters in sea level rise per 1-2 degrees in temp rise not going to happen in this scenario?
    Remember, this happens a millimeter at a time over the course of two or three lifetimes, maybe more. You don't just wake up one day and suddenly you're 10 feet underwater. My guess is that people in those areas will gradually do things to adjust to it as it happens, and the average person will not even notice it.

    In any case, what kind of argument are you even making? That keeping sea level exactly the same as it is now is a realistic goal? What kind of nonsense is that? It has risen and fallen by hundreds of feet many times. The seafloor under the North Sea used to be inhabited dry land before a major sea level rise, and they are dredging up primitive artifacts there all the time (it is called Doggerland, look it up). Humanity survived this with Stone Age technology, and the environment survived it too.

    Basically what we have here is natural variability that gives you about a 400-foot band of what sea level might be at any given time. Humans have the ability to add a couple percent to that, and for some reason people lock on to that and lose their shit and think it's the end of the world.

    The absolute worst possible outcome of climate change is an inconvenience, not a cataclysm. That is just the math of it. But of course, who am I to question it. The Experts have spoken and The Science has been settled, according to a bunch of people who do not even understand the experts or the science at all themselves, but who sure do like to yell and order people around.
    See you Space Cowboy ...

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