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Thread: Patriots Caught Cheating AGAIN

  1. #31
    Senior Member Array title="pczach has a reputation beyond repute"> pczach's Avatar

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    Re: Patriots Caught Cheating AGAIN

    Spygate to Deflategate: Inside what split the NFL and Patriots apart

    Don Van Natta Jr. and Seth Wickersham


    HIS BOSSES WERE furious. Roger Goodell knew it. So on April 1, 2008, the NFL commissioner convened an emergency session of the league's spring meeting at The Breakers hotel in Palm Beach, Florida. Attendance was limited to each team's owner and head coach. A palpable anger and frustration had rumbled inside club front offices since the opening Sunday of the 2007 season. During the first half of the New England Patriots' game against the New York Jets at Giants Stadium, a 26-year-old Patriots video assistant named Matt Estrella had been caught on the sideline, illegally videotaping Jets coaches' defensive signals, beginning the scandal known as Spygate.

    Behind closed doors, Goodell addressed what he called "the elephant in the room" and, according to sources at the meeting, turned over the floor to Robert Kraft. Then 66, the billionaire Patriots owner stood and apologized for the damage his team had done to the league and the public's confidence in pro football. Kraft talked about the deep respect he had for his 31 fellow owners and their shared interest in protecting the NFL's shield. Witnesses would later say Kraft's remarks were heartfelt, his demeanor chastened. For a moment, he seemed to well up.

    Then the Patriots' coach, Bill Belichick, the cheating program's mastermind, spoke. He said he had merely misinterpreted a league rule, explaining that he thought it was legal to videotape opposing teams' signals as long as the material wasn't used in real time. Few in the room bought it. Belichick said he had made a mistake -- "my mistake."

    Now it was Goodell's turn. The league office lifer, then 49 years old, had been commissioner just 18 months, promoted, in part, because of Kraft's support. His audience wanted to know why he had managed his first crisis in a manner at once hasty and strangely secretive. Goodell had imposed a $500,000 fine on Belichick, a $250,000 fine on the team and the loss of a first-round draft pick just four days after league security officials had caught the Patriots and before he'd even sent a team of investigators to Foxborough, Massachusetts. Those investigators hadn't come up empty: Inside a room accessible only to Belichick and a few others, they found a library of scouting material containing videotapes of opponents' signals, with detailed notes matching signals to plays for many teams going back seven seasons. Among them were handwritten diagrams of the defensive signals of the Pittsburgh Steelers, including the notes used in the January 2002 AFC Championship Game won by the Patriots 24-17. Yet almost as quickly as the tapes and notes were found, they were destroyed, on Goodell's orders: League executives stomped the tapes into pieces and shredded the papers inside a Gillette Stadium conference room.

    To many owners and coaches, the expediency of the NFL's investigation -- and the Patriots' and Goodell's insistence that no games were tilted by the spying -- seemed dubious. It reminded them of something they had seen before from the league and Patriots: At least two teams had caught New England videotaping their coaches' signals in 2006, yet the league did nothing. Further, NFL competition committee members had, over the years, fielded numerous allegations about New England breaking an array of rules. Still nothing. Now the stakes had gotten much higher: Spygate's unanswered questions and destroyed evidence had managed to seize the attention of a hard-charging U.S. senator, Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania, who was threatening a congressional investigation. This would put everyone -- players, coaches, owners and the commissioner -- under oath, a prospect that some in that room at The Breakers believed could threaten the foundation of the NFL.

    Goodell tried to assuage his bosses: He ordered the destruction of the tapes and notes, he insisted, so they couldn't be exploited again. Many in the room didn't believe it. And some would conclude it was as if Goodell, Kraft and Belichick had acted like partners, complicit in trying to sweep the scandal's details under the rug while the rest of the league was left wondering how much glory the Patriots' cheating had cost their teams. "Goodell didn't want anybody to know that his gold franchise had won Super Bowls by cheating," a senior executive whose team lost to the Patriots in a Super Bowl now says. "If that gets out, that hurts your business."

    Read the rest here:

    https://www.espn.com/espn/otl/story/...patriots-apart






    Everyone here needs to read this article.

    "From 2000 to 2007 the Patriots videotaped the signals of opposing coaches in 40 games"

  2. #32
    Senior Member Array title="Mojouw has a reputation beyond repute"> Mojouw's Avatar

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    Re: Patriots Caught Cheating AGAIN

    I am not defending or minimizing this. But I do wonder how “common” some version of this has “always” been in the NFL?

    I’m thinking about all that Astros madness in baseball. I know that “lesser” versions of that have been going on since the origins of the sport.

    And it makes sense. The Astros didn’t get the idea from nowhere. They just made it bigger and crossed lines when doing it.

    Perhaps the Patriots took “common” (even if frowned upon) practices and then elaborated those into a more nefarious scheme?

    Be interesting to hear some old time players and coaches talk about what went on back in the day.

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    Re: Patriots Caught Cheating AGAIN

    I suppose if you couldn't beat Belichick, Brady, and the Patriots on the field you can always try it with pen and paper. That's what all sore loosers try to do.

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    Re: Patriots Caught Cheating AGAIN

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    I am not defending or minimizing this. But I do wonder how “common” some version of this has “always” been in the NFL?

    I’m thinking about all that Astros madness in baseball. I know that “lesser” versions of that have been going on since the origins of the sport.

    And it makes sense. The Astros didn’t get the idea from nowhere. They just made it bigger and crossed lines when doing it.

    Perhaps the Patriots took “common” (even if frowned upon) practices and then elaborated those into a more nefarious scheme?

    Be interesting to hear some old time players and coaches talk about what went on back in the day.
    "It's just a little gamesmanship," Walsh told Parcells."


    "Bill Parcells says in book that Bill Walsh cheated during 1985 playoff matchup


    • ESPN

    Nov 16, 2018, 11:50 AM ET


    Bill Parcells defeated fellow Hall of Famer Bill Walsh in their third and final playoff clash, but not before the former Giants coach accused the 49ers coach of cheating in their previous postseason meeting, according to a book to be released next week.


    In "Guts and Genius: The Story of Three Unlikely Coaches Who Came to Dominate the NFL in the 1980s," by Newsday columnist Bob Glauber, Parcells approached Walsh before their divisional-round game on Jan. 4, 1987, and told him he knew the 49ers sabotaged their own staff's headsets during San Francisco's first series of the Giants' 17-3 victory the previous year. NFL rules mandate that the opposing team must shut off its headsets in those situations until the coaches' equipment is functioning on the other sideline. Walsh was known to script his plays for his first offensive series; San Francisco's headsets were operating again before the second series.


    "Bill," Parcells told Walsh during warmups, "if you pull the same s--- you pulled last year, I'm going to expose you. I'm going to the league with it."

    According to the book, Walsh responded with a smile and a wink. "It's just a little gamesmanship," Walsh told Parcells."

    https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...layoff-matchup






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    Re: Patriots Caught Cheating AGAIN

    Steelers tried stealing signals, too


    Former head coach Cowher: Steelers tried stealing signals, too

    Alan Robinson
    The New England Patriots weren't the only team trying to steal signals during the time of the Spygate scandal. The Steelers were, too, former coach Bill Cowher said Wednesday.

    Cowher, during a segment on 93.7 FM, said the Patriots' spying didn't beat the Steelers during the 2004 season's AFC championship game. A better Patriots team beat them, he said.


    Cowher was asked why he didn't question Patriots coach Bill Belichick about Spygate during Cowher's interview with Belichick that ran Sunday on
    “The NFL Today” pregame show on CBS.


    “We didn't lose the game because of any Spygate, because of them having any additional things,” Cowher said, referring to the 41-27 loss to New England that ended the Steelers' season following a 15-1 regular season. “I think if they're guilty of anything, they're guilty of arrogance because they were told not to do something. But it was something that everybody does.”

    .................................................. ..........

    “The only thing they got caught (was) doing it with a camera,” Cowher told the radio station. “We had people that always tried to steal signals. Stealing someone's signals was a part of the game, and everyone attempted to do that.”

    Cowher said “part of the things we had (were) wristbands that we were using to do it,” attempting to identify opposing teams' verbal signals that were being yelled to the players on the field.


    Cowher said signal stealing “isn't even an element anymore because of the communications that take place on the field to the quarterback, to the linebacker. So it's an element of the game that doesn't exist and, really, what happened when we lost that game is they outplayed us, and it had nothing to do with stealing signals or cheating or anything else. They were a better football team on that day.”

    https://archive.triblive.com/sports/...g-signals-too/

  6. #36
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    Re: Patriots Caught Cheating AGAIN

    Look over there! Nothing to see here!

    If it were only trying to steal signals nobody would be pointing at it. 20+ seasons is a career of cheating.

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    Re: Patriots Caught Cheating AGAIN

    Quote Originally Posted by Born2Steel View Post
    Look over there! Nothing to see here!

    If it were only trying to steal signals nobody would be pointing at it. 20+ seasons is a career of cheating.
    Ha ha, so now that the Steelers were stealing signals too that's no big deal. Your problem is 20 plus seasons of getting your ass kicked. That's what's bothering you. You're no longer the NFL's biggest historic deal. The Patriots are. Get over it.

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    Re: Patriots Caught Cheating AGAIN

    Quote Originally Posted by willy View Post
    I suppose if you couldn't beat Belichick, Brady, and the Patriots on the field you can always try it with pen and paper. That's what all sore loosers try to do.



    No. It's Belichick, Brady, and the Patriots that had to cheat to beat other teams.

    That's what elite losers do.

  9. #39
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    Re: Patriots Caught Cheating AGAIN

    Quote Originally Posted by willy View Post
    Ha ha, so now that the Steelers were stealing signals too that's no big deal. Your problem is 20 plus seasons of getting your ass kicked. That's what's bothering you. You're no longer the NFL's biggest historic deal. The Patriots are. Get over it.
    Wrong again. If my team cheated I would find that embarrassing and shameful.

    I only posted that if BB had only been ‘stealing signals’ the rest of the NFL would not consider him a career cheater. Which is how the rest of the NFL considers him. That’s not just a Steelers thing.

    At least BB won with his cheating. Al Davis just looked like a fool saying if you’re not cheating, you’re not trying, and then losing mostly. It’s just so many of Belichick’s accomplishments come with an asterix. Because he cheats.

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    Re: Patriots Caught Cheating AGAIN

    Quote Originally Posted by willy View Post
    Ha ha, so now that the Steelers were stealing signals too that's no big deal. Your problem is 20 plus seasons of getting your ass kicked. That's what's bothering you. You're no longer the NFL's biggest historic deal. The Patriots are. Get over it.
    Please go suck dick at the cheat site. Why are you here???

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    Re: Patriots Caught Cheating AGAIN

    Please, the Patriots dominated for 20 years because they were better coached, they had the best QB in the history of the league, and they picked up players who could help them, not because they were stars, or big names. It was an amazing run, too bad you all were too infected to see, and appreciate it.

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    Senior Member Array title="Born2Steel has a reputation beyond repute"> Born2Steel's Avatar

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    Re: Patriots Caught Cheating AGAIN

    Quote Originally Posted by willy View Post
    Please, the Patriots dominated for 20 years because they were better coached, they had the best QB in the history of the league, and they picked up players who could help them, not because they were stars, or big names. It was an amazing run, too bad you all were too infected to see, and appreciate it.
    Tom Brady is the GOHT. Greatest of his time. On-field achievement speaks for itself. Taking nothing away from that. Yet the organization used the TB12 program to enhance his pay by paying Tom millions ‘for the team’. That pay didn’t count against the cap. Just another ‘loop hole’. That is a fact and did actually happen. Other teams tried to work similar deals and were told by the league they couldn’t do that.

    Supercoach Belichick has not won a playoff game since TB12 left the team. What happened? Interested in the details.

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    Re: Patriots Caught Cheating AGAIN


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    Re: Patriots Caught Cheating AGAIN

    Quote Originally Posted by Born2Steel View Post
    Supercoach Belichick has not won a playoff game since TB12 left the team. What happened? Interested in the details.
    "Pittsburgh's last playoff win was Jan 15, 2017 against Kansas City in Arrowhead Stadium. Since then, the team has suffered through a post-season dark age that younger fans have never before experienced.

    .................................................. ...

    6 years without a playoff win. 3 playoff wins in 12 years."

    https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.co...20experienced.


    What happened? Interested in the details.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Born2Steel View Post
    BFD

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    Re: Patriots Caught Cheating AGAIN

    Quote Originally Posted by willy View Post
    "Pittsburgh's last playoff win was Jan 15, 2017 against Kansas City in Arrowhead Stadium. Since then, the team has suffered through a post-season dark age that younger fans have never before experienced.

    .................................................. ...

    6 years without a playoff win. 3 playoff wins in 12 years."

    https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.co...20experienced.


    What happened? Interested in the details.

    - - - Updated - - -



    BFD
    Parroting is what you do when you have no answer to the question posed or explanation to the comment made. I'll help.....

    Without the cheating, Bill and his Patriots are just another good but not dominant NFL team. Cheating(loopholes in current rules to bending rules during play to outright disgraceful cheating) is what put the asterix on Bill and the Patriots. Have your trophies, enjoy those rings, just remember we know and we will keep reminding you.

    "Well, he/she/they did it too...." Be the adult in the room and own it.

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    Re: Patriots Caught Cheating AGAIN

    There are no coaches, current or former, no NFL team owners, current or former, and no NFL team fanbase pointing their fingers at any other team and coach for consistent and blatant cheating like what we have seen with Bill and the Patriots. No articles needed to back that up as fact. No opinion pieces are warranted. The Bill Belichick era will be remembered in the same way as the steroid era in baseball. With an asterix.

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    Re: Patriots Caught Cheating AGAIN

    Quote Originally Posted by Born2Steel View Post
    The Bill Belichick era will be remembered in the same way as the steroid era in baseball. With an asterix.
    Complete nonsense. The Patriots are the NFLs dynasty of record. The Steelers little run pales in comparison.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Born2Steel View Post
    Parroting is what you do when you have no answer to the question posed or explanation to the comment made. I'll help.....

    Without the cheating, Bill and his Patriots are just another good but not dominant NFL team. Cheating(loopholes in current rules to bending rules during play to outright disgraceful cheating) is what put the asterix on Bill and the Patriots. Have your trophies, enjoy those rings, just remember we know and we will keep reminding you.

    "Well, he/she/they did it too...." Be the adult in the room and own it.
    The scary thing is you probably believe your crap.

    You can believe this though:

    "Pittsburgh's last playoff win was Jan 15, 2017 against Kansas City in Arrowhead Stadium. Since then, the team has suffered through a post-season dark age that younger fans have never before experienced.

    .................................................. ...

    6 years without a playoff win. 3 playoff wins in 12 years."

    https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.co...20experienced.


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    Re: Patriots Caught Cheating AGAIN

    Quote Originally Posted by willy View Post
    Complete nonsense. The Patriots are the NFLs dynasty of record. The Steelers little run pales in comparison.

    - - - Updated - - -



    The scary thing is you probably believe your crap.

    You can believe this though:

    "Pittsburgh's last playoff win was Jan 15, 2017 against Kansas City in Arrowhead Stadium. Since then, the team has suffered through a post-season dark age that younger fans have never before experienced.

    .................................................. ...

    6 years without a playoff win. 3 playoff wins in 12 years."

    https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.co...20experienced.


    What does that Steelers playoffs article have to do with the Patriots and Cheating???????

    The thread is actually titled cheating AGAIN. You got anything that debunks that? Most likely not.

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    Senior Member Array title="steelcityboyz has a reputation beyond repute"> steelcityboyz's Avatar

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    Re: Patriots Caught Cheating AGAIN

    Quote Originally Posted by Born2Steel View Post

    What does that Steelers playoffs article have to do with the Patriots and Cheating???????

    The thread is actually titled cheating AGAIN. You got anything that debunks that? Most likely not.
    You'll be waiting forever to get a legit answer. All he does is come to this site and spew his bullshit. TBH it's getting tiresome.

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    Re: Patriots Caught Cheating AGAIN

    Quote Originally Posted by steelcityboyz View Post
    You'll be waiting forever to get a legit answer. All he does is come to this site and spew his bullshit. TBH it's getting tiresome.
    Agreed!

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    Re: Patriots Caught Cheating AGAIN

    Quote Originally Posted by Born2Steel View Post

    What does that Steelers playoffs article have to do with the Patriots and Cheating???????
    ponded to: "Supercoach Belichick has not won a playoff game since TB12 left the team. What happened? Interested in the details.
    The thread is actually titled cheating AGAIN. You got anything that debunks that? Most likely not.

    Obviously I responded to this crap: "Supercoach Belichick has not won a playoff game since TB12 left the team. What happened? Interested in the details."

    - - - Updated - - -

    Your arguments are weak and based purely on jealousy. Everyone knows that the Patriots were the most dominant team in the history of the NFL for twenty years. The Steelers had a run that lasted 1/5 of that time. No one, including Bill Cowhers, thinks the Patriots are THE NFL DYNASTY because they filmed the opposing sideline or because a football was under inflated. Anyone who does is a moron. If I were you I'd worry about your postseason winless Steelers and stop throwing stones at other franchises.

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    Re: Patriots Caught Cheating AGAIN



    Give a lib a fish--he eats for a day

    Teach a lib to fish--he is back the next day asking for more free fish.

    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

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    Re: Patriots Caught Cheating AGAIN

    Quote Originally Posted by willy View Post
    Obviously I responded to this crap: "Supercoach Belichick has not won a playoff game since TB12 left the team. What happened? Interested in the details."

    - - - Updated - - -

    Your arguments are weak and based purely on jealousy. Everyone knows that the Patriots were the most dominant team in the history of the NFL for twenty years. The Steelers had a run that lasted 1/5 of that time. No one, including Bill Cowhers, thinks the Patriots are THE NFL DYNASTY because they filmed the opposing sideline or because a football was under inflated. Anyone who does is a moron. If I were you I'd worry about your postseason winless Steelers and stop throwing stones at other franchises.
    Weak or not, it’s still fact. It’s a thing everybody knows. Some fans just can’t see past their own fandom I guess.

    …Or stay on topic.

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    Re: Patriots Caught Cheating AGAIN

    Nowhere in the title of this thread, does it say anything about the “last time the Steelers won a playoff game”!

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    Re: Patriots Caught Cheating AGAIN

    Quote Originally Posted by Born2Steel View Post

    What does that Steelers playoffs article have to do with the Patriots and Cheating???????

    The thread is actually titled cheating AGAIN. You got anything that debunks that? Most likely not.
    patriots fans are just like trump supporters, nothing but deflections and whataboutisms
    Formerly known as Fire Goodell

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    Re: Patriots Caught Cheating AGAIN

    Part of the joy of having the NFLs top dynasty is being able to reminisce with such class.


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