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Thread: Javon Hargrave to the 49ers: 4 years, $84 million

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    Javon Hargrave to the 49ers: 4 years, $84 million

    Philadelphia Eagles defensive tackle Javon Hargrave has reached agreement on a four-year, $84 million deal that includes $40 million guaranteed at signing with the San Francisco 49ers, sources told ESPN's Adam Schefter.

    Hargrave, who turned 30 in February, posted a career-high 11 sacks for the Philadelphia Eagles this past season

    https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...javon-hargrave

    To me, not much better embodies what separates the Steelers from the top tier of teams in the NFL these days.

    The guy we let walk because we were too stuck in our ways to find him any playing time is now one of the best interior linemen in the game, moving from one Super Bowl contender to another. Meanwhile, we're sitting around hoping we can get Bud Dupree to come back and sit on IR for backup money, while our top CB got poached by the Lions the day after the guy we made a move for a few months ago got released without playing a single snap.

    I'm reading what I just wrote up there like, "What in the fuck?", but all of it is the truth.
    See you Space Cowboy ...

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    Re: Javon Hargrave to the 49ers: 4 years, $84 million

    I think the 49ers will come out of the NFC next year if they can keep their QB's healthy.

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    Re: Javon Hargrave to the 49ers: 4 years, $84 million

    Quote Originally Posted by EzraTank View Post
    I think the 49ers will come out of the NFC next year if they can keep their QB's healthy.
    Any of the 3, right?

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    Re: Javon Hargrave to the 49ers: 4 years, $84 million

    Quote Originally Posted by EzraTank View Post
    I think the 49ers will come out of the NFC next year if they can keep their QB's healthy.
    Who is their QB?

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    Re: Javon Hargrave to the 49ers: 4 years, $84 million

    Quote Originally Posted by Born2Steel View Post
    Who is their QB?
    Purdy,Lance and Sam Darnold....

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    Re: Javon Hargrave to the 49ers: 4 years, $84 million

    Quote Originally Posted by steelreserve View Post
    To me, not much better embodies what separates the Steelers from the top tier of teams in the NFL these days.

    The guy we let walk because we were too stuck in our ways to find him any playing time is now one of the best interior linemen in the game, moving from one Super Bowl contender to another. Meanwhile, we're sitting around hoping we can get Bud Dupree to come back and sit on IR for backup money, while our top CB got poached by the Lions the day after the guy we made a move for a few months ago got released without playing a single snap.

    I'm reading what I just wrote up there like, "What in the fuck?", but all of it is the truth.



    This one is especially hard for me. I had him as my draft crush that year. He was a small school player that you really needed to see him play and watch whatever limited tape was on him. I was telling everyone how great I thought he could be. I am ecstatic when they draft him and dream of greatness.

    He is then underutilized for several years although a difference-maker whenever he was on the field. I still wanted them to keep him and adjust the scheme to better fit his talents and strengths....but they decided to let him go. I said he would thrive in the Eagles scheme.....and of course he did. He wasn't completely healthy the year before, but coming into this year he was poised to have a huge season.....and he did.

    In the meantime, a great player like Tuitt has a personal crisis and retires early. Cam is getting old. And here we are looking for help at DL. It's like a Greek tragedy.

    It's kind of like having a child and having someone ripping them away from you.

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    Re: Javon Hargrave to the 49ers: 4 years, $84 million

    Quote Originally Posted by steelreserve View Post
    To me, not much better embodies what separates the Steelers from the top tier of teams in the NFL these days.

    The guy we let walk because we were too stuck in our ways to find him any playing time is now one of the best interior linemen in the game, moving from one Super Bowl contender to another. Meanwhile, we're sitting around hoping we can get Bud Dupree to come back and sit on IR for backup money, while our top CB got poached by the Lions the day after the guy we made a move for a few months ago got released without playing a single snap.

    I'm reading what I just wrote up there like, "What in the fuck?", but all of it is the truth.
    The Eagles and 49ers are winning with scrap parts with no big contracts tying them up like the Steelers have been. You can only get away with that for so long.

    Gravedigger was a numbers game. He was the fourth guy in a DL rotation. There was simply no room for him here. The Steelers already tied up all of their DL money into Cam, Alualu, and Tuitt. Ben was still here and eating up the cap. No one expected Tuitt to have a personal crisis after 2020 and retire. He was better than Hargrave. What could the Steelers have feasibly done to keep him, and if he stayed, who was he going to supplant on the Line? To me, its pointless to complain about the Steelers when the circumstances between the teams are completely different. Wentz crashed on the Eagles, shed his contract and got to the Bowl on Jalen Hurts' rookie deal, and the 49ers are now juggling Quarterbacks after Garappolo. And the jury is still out on Purdy.

    The 2019-2021 Steelers were the last fading remnants of a former contending team headed into transition in the final Ben years. Keeping Hargrave would've been impractical. The grass isn't always greener on the other side. Come talk to me later about these "contenders" and how they fare when the paychecks for their best players come due.

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    Re: Javon Hargrave to the 49ers: 4 years, $84 million

    Like the Eagles defense being gutted now? Graham, Hargrave, Edwards, White...not sure who is going to be left!

    A player has to want to be somewhere as well once they reach UFA. Hargrave made it pretty clear that he did not want to be 3rd DL behind Heyward and Tuitt. No one knew what was going to happen with Tuitt. So the argument, if we are doing a true counter-factual history, would be that the Steelers should have traded one of Tuitt or Heyward for draft capital and resigned Hargrave to an elevated DE not DT role.

    Everything else is pissing an moaning about how apples don't taste like oranges.

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    Re: Javon Hargrave to the 49ers: 4 years, $84 million

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Like the Eagles defense being gutted now? Graham, Hargrave, Edwards, White...not sure who is going to be left!

    A player has to want to be somewhere as well once they reach UFA. Hargrave made it pretty clear that he did not want to be 3rd DL behind Heyward and Tuitt. No one knew what was going to happen with Tuitt. So the argument, if we are doing a true counter-factual history, would be that the Steelers should have traded one of Tuitt or Heyward for draft capital and resigned Hargrave to an elevated DE not DT role.

    Everything else is pissing an moaning about how apples don't taste like oranges.



    The point everyone is missing is that the defense could have gone with more 4-3 looks on first and second down, and let him rush the passer on the inside because he is obviously a beast doing that. The reason he didn't want to be here is because they weren't playing him. It's not difficult to understand.

    I'm not apples and oranges anything. The team could have tweaked the scheme to accommodate an elite talent.....and they didn't.

    In case you guys missed it, he has played at a Pro Bowl level at DT inside in the Eagles scheme. He can play some NT like the Steelers used him more exclusively, but he is great on the interior creating penetration. I wasn't aware that there was a mysterious force stopping them from going with a 4 or 5 man front with Heyward, Tuitt, and Hargrave with Watt or Dupree moving around and varying the looks they gave opposing offenses.

    I have never said nor did I ever say that Javon Hargrave needed to take the place of Cam Heyward or Stephon Tuitt, although he could have. Understanding football means there are other things to do with players rather than fitting them into small holes.

    He was rated at the #1 free agent in the NFL this year. Double digit sacks from a huge man in the middle that creates sacks and TFL is a universal skill. It just needed to be cultivated here......not in Philadelphia.

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    Re: Javon Hargrave to the 49ers: 4 years, $84 million

    Quote Originally Posted by Edman View Post
    The Eagles and 49ers are winning with scrap parts with no big contracts tying them up like the Steelers have been. You can only get away with that for so long.

    Gravedigger was a numbers game. He was the fourth guy in a DL rotation. There was simply no room for him here. The Steelers already tied up all of their DL money into Cam, Alualu, and Tuitt. Ben was still here and eating up the cap. No one expected Tuitt to have a personal crisis after 2020 and retire. He was better than Hargrave. What could the Steelers have feasibly done to keep him, and if he stayed, who was he going to supplant on the Line? To me, its pointless to complain about the Steelers when the circumstances between the teams are completely different. Wentz crashed on the Eagles, shed his contract and got to the Bowl on Jalen Hurts' rookie deal, and the 49ers are now juggling Quarterbacks after Garappolo. And the jury is still out on Purdy.

    The 2019-2021 Steelers were the last fading remnants of a former contending team headed into transition in the final Ben years. Keeping Hargrave would've been impractical. The grass isn't always greener on the other side. Come talk to me later about these "contenders" and how they fare when the paychecks for their best players come due.



    You're bitching about the pointlessness of bitching......yet that's pretty much what you do here in nearly every post since I've been here. You were banging the drum on Ben. You were banging the drum and continue to bang it on Tomlin. I mean.....what are you bitching about here? You didn't like Sutton....OK. Let's see how great Peterson looks at the end of the second year of his contract when he's ready to turn 35 and he's lining up in front of Jamar Chase with the division title on the line.

    I hope Patrick Peterson balls out and turns back time. I'm not like so many others that hope for a player's or coaches' failure because it makes them feel smarter or better about themselves. I just comment on things as they happen or speak to situations as I see them. I fully support the organization and pull for constant success unlike so many others here.

    Also, a team not signing a player like Hargrave that turns into one of the best players in the NFL isn't something to celebrate. It was a major error on the part of the Steelers not to find a way to make it work regardless of financial situations. You make shit like that work if you believe he's a great player. If they didn't think he was a great player...they dropped the ball and it was a major fuck up. Period.

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    Re: Javon Hargrave to the 49ers: 4 years, $84 million

    Quote Originally Posted by pczach View Post
    You're bitching about the pointlessness of bitching......yet that's pretty much what you do here in nearly every post since I've been here. You were banging the drum on Ben. You were banging the drum and continue to bang it on Tomlin. I mean.....what are you bitching about here? You didn't like Sutton....OK. Let's see how great Peterson looks at the end of the second year of his contract when he's ready to turn 35 and he's lining up in front of Jamar Chase with the division title on the line.

    I hope Patrick Peterson balls out and turns back time. I'm not like so many others that hope for a player's or coaches' failure because it makes them feel smarter or better about themselves. I just comment on things as they happen or speak to situations as I see them. I fully support the organization and pull for constant success unlike so many others here.

    Also, a team not signing a player like Hargrave that turns into one of the best players in the NFL isn't something to celebrate. It was a major error on the part of the Steelers not to find a way to make it work regardless of financial situations. You make shit like that work if you believe he's a great player. If they didn't think he was a great player...they dropped the ball and it was a major fuck up. Period.
    Well don't you know, its only okay when I bitch.

    Javon Hargrave was a great player who played a role on the Steelers. He wasn't the star. He got an opportunity to be a star and he thrived. Good for him. Nobody is celebrating Hargrave leaving. I know its hard to comprehend, but in a professional environment, you appreciate the people who leave and wish them the best. It's disappointing for sure, I wish we kept Hargrave, but we couldn't. How do you think the Eagles feel right now? Hargrave had their best season with them and they just lost the guy to their closest NFC competitor. Surely the Eagles organization is dumb and don't know what they're doing according to you.

    Javon Hargrave could've been a Nose Tackle for the Steelers, but do we know how he probably felt about it? Chances are that's not what he wanted to do. Usually 4-3 Interior Linemen are 3-4 Ends, and that wasn't happening with Cam and Tuitt. Hargrave was probably asked to be a penetrating Nose, but that's probably not something he was down with. We don't know for sure.

    In hindsight its a fuckup, but are we having this conversation if Stephon Tuitt doesn't lose his brother in a hit-and-run and decide to check out?

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    Re: Javon Hargrave to the 49ers: 4 years, $84 million

    Quote Originally Posted by pczach View Post
    The point everyone is missing is that the defense could have gone with more 4-3 looks on first and second down, and let him rush the passer on the inside because he is obviously a beast doing that. The reason he didn't want to be here is because they weren't playing him. It's not difficult to understand.

    I'm not apples and oranges anything. The team could have tweaked the scheme to accommodate an elite talent.....and they didn't.

    In case you guys missed it, he has played at a Pro Bowl level at DT inside in the Eagles scheme. He can play some NT like the Steelers used him more exclusively, but he is great on the interior creating penetration. I wasn't aware that there was a mysterious force stopping them from going with a 4 or 5 man front with Heyward, Tuitt, and Hargrave with Watt or Dupree moving around and varying the looks they gave opposing offenses.

    I have never said nor did I ever say that Javon Hargrave needed to take the place of Cam Heyward or Stephon Tuitt, although he could have. Understanding football means there are other things to do with players rather than fitting them into small holes.

    He was rated at the #1 free agent in the NFL this year. Double digit sacks from a huge man in the middle that creates sacks and TFL is a universal skill. It just needed to be cultivated here......not in Philadelphia.
    I’m not disagreeing that Hargrave was and is a really good player.

    I’m just remembering, perhaps incorrectly, that he was at most the 3rd best player in the front 7 behind Heyward, Tuitt, and Watt. Shifting alignment and defensive style would’ve helped Hargrave but potentially harmed the other 3.

    Sometimes roster construction and salary structure just prevents a match between a player and a team.

    Everyone can be right and it’s just not the right circumstance all the way around.

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    Re: Javon Hargrave to the 49ers: 4 years, $84 million

    There are many, many teams that run some version of a 4-3 defense that successfully adapts to different situations, and have interior linemen and edge rushers alike who are great at causing disruption. Watt, Tuitt, Heyward, and Hargrave could all fit into such a defense very easily.

    We, on the other hand, stubbornly insist on sticking with a 3-4 defense no matter what the cost, while simultaneously insisting that nose tackle has diminished in importance and we shouldn't concern ourselves with it too much. So we end up running some bullshit defense that is basically a 3-4 without a nose tackle, which we have been doing for 10 years with little success, and when we need more than those two defensive linemen, which is often, we put in someone who sucks and say it's not our fault because we don't think another lineman is that important, and the good ones will get pissed off and leave anyway.

    For the amount that we insist it isn't important, we spend an incredible amount of time using rotational defensive linemen who get their asses kicked up and down the field all day - and all this is for the privilege of trying to jam square pegs into round holes all over the defense to try and force this 3-4 scheme with no nose tackle to work. Meanwhile, the obvious answer to all this is practically beating us over the head for three years - oh look, it's an interior lineman who fucks shit up and disrupts the play instead of just being a fat guy in the middle - and we sit there with our thumb up our ass until he gives up and peaces out.

    Ladies and gentlemen, the Pittsburgh Steelers, who find ways for their hands to be tied when no one else can, and who waste more energy churning against self-imposed limitations than any team in the league.
    See you Space Cowboy ...

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    Re: Javon Hargrave to the 49ers: 4 years, $84 million

    Quote Originally Posted by steelreserve View Post
    There are many, many teams that run some version of a 4-3 defense that successfully adapts to different situations, and have interior linemen and edge rushers alike who are great at causing disruption. Watt, Tuitt, Heyward, and Hargrave could all fit into such a defense very easily.

    We, on the other hand, stubbornly insist on sticking with a 3-4 defense no matter what the cost, while simultaneously insisting that nose tackle has diminished in importance and we shouldn't concern ourselves with it too much. So we end up running some bullshit defense that is basically a 3-4 without a nose tackle, which we have been doing for 10 years with little success, and when we need more than those two defensive linemen, which is often, we put in someone who sucks and say it's not our fault because we don't think another lineman is that important, and the good ones will get pissed off and leave anyway.

    For the amount that we insist it isn't important, we spend an incredible amount of time using rotational defensive linemen who get their asses kicked up and down the field all day - and all this is for the privilege of trying to jam square pegs into round holes all over the defense to try and force this 3-4 scheme with no nose tackle to work. Meanwhile, the obvious answer to all this is practically beating us over the head for three years - oh look, it's an interior lineman who fucks shit up and disrupts the play instead of just being a fat guy in the middle - and we sit there with our thumb up our ass until he gives up and peaces out.

    Ladies and gentlemen, the Pittsburgh Steelers, who find ways for their hands to be tied when no one else can, and who waste more energy churning against self-imposed limitations than any team in the league.
    blah blah blah....

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    Re: Javon Hargrave to the 49ers: 4 years, $84 million

    Gee....you would think that the defense hasn't lead the league in sacks for like 9 of the last 10 years or something. And that it hasn't overall performed really well.

    It is a pretty terrible scheme that should likely be scrapped. I mean...putting a 250 lbs DPOY caliber OLB on the edge of the a 4-3 with his hand in the dirt so that Hargrave can play more interior DL snaps -- there's no way that would have been anything but even more sacks and more amazing!!

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    Re: Javon Hargrave to the 49ers: 4 years, $84 million

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Gee....you would think that the defense hasn't lead the league in sacks for like 9 of the last 10 years or something. And that it hasn't overall performed really well.

    It is a pretty terrible scheme that should likely be scrapped. I mean...putting a 250 lbs DPOY caliber OLB on the edge of the a 4-3 with his hand in the dirt so that Hargrave can play more interior DL snaps -- there's no way that would have been anything but even more sacks and more amazing!!



    But you didn't necessarily have to do that with Watt. That's what I was trying to say. You could rotate players, put 5 or 6 at the LOS and vary who is coming and who isn't. You could bounce players inside and out based on down and distance situations. There are a ton of ways to use that much talent. I think people sometimes get caught up in a base scheme, but nearly everybody is only in base defense a small percentage of the time.

    I agree with you. You don't want Watt with his hand on the ground taking on 350 lb men and controlling gaps. You want him penetrating and wreaking havoc at the edge. I think they could have made it even more difficult to double or triple team him. The other thing is that the reason you state Watt being used badly is a crime is exactly the reason I am so hard on them for how they used a great player like Hargrave. It could have been so much more.

    I know that they have had a ton of sacks. Watt is the catalyst that makes the whole thing work. That's what great players do. They often rely on scheme and confusion to get sacks. In other words, they fool people into screwing up protections and confuse the OL and the QB. Many of their sacks are 100% scheme. It isn't a player defeating the player in front of them. That's what guys like Watt do. That's what players like Hargrave do. When you have players that consistently beat the players in front of them, scheme isn't necessary to get people to the QB. This means you have to dedicate less players to the LOS and you can dedicate more players to coverage and more stay-at-home coverages without deception. It's the old adage of being able to get constant pressure by only rushing 4. That means 7 players are in coverage and not coming up to the LOS and compromising coverage schemes by rushing more or having men out of position to try to confuse people.

    Of course what happened...happened. There is no going back. I'm just explaining my position and the how and why.

    I am actually fine with the defensive scheme currently in place. Another terrific DL, a great ILB, and a dominant CB can turn this unit into a destructive force. Just reminiscing about what could have been if not for a few awful situations.

    Shazier, Watt, Hargrave, Tuitt, Heyward, Fitzpatrick all on the field at the same time........are you f'ing kidding me? Unbelievable.

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    Re: Javon Hargrave to the 49ers: 4 years, $84 million

    Quote Originally Posted by pczach View Post
    But you didn't necessarily have to do that with Watt. That's what I was trying to say. You could rotate players, put 5 or 6 at the LOS and vary who is coming and who isn't. You could bounce players inside and out based on down and distance situations. There are a ton of ways to use that much talent. I think people sometimes get caught up in a base scheme, but nearly everybody is only in base defense a small percentage of the time.

    I agree with you. You don't want Watt with his hand on the ground taking on 350 lb men and controlling gaps. You want him penetrating and wreaking havoc at the edge. I think they could have made it even more difficult to double or triple team him. The other thing is that the reason you state Watt being used badly is a crime is exactly the reason I am so hard on them for how they used a great player like Hargrave. It could have been so much more.

    I know that they have had a ton of sacks. Watt is the catalyst that makes the whole thing work. That's what great players do. They often rely on scheme and confusion to get sacks. In other words, they fool people into screwing up protections and confuse the OL and the QB. Many of their sacks are 100% scheme. It isn't a player defeating the player in front of them. That's what guys like Watt do. That's what players like Hargrave do. When you have players that consistently beat the players in front of them, scheme isn't necessary to get people to the QB. This means you have to dedicate less players to the LOS and you can dedicate more players to coverage and more stay-at-home coverages without deception. It's the old adage of being able to get constant pressure by only rushing 4. That means 7 players are in coverage and not coming up to the LOS and compromising coverage schemes by rushing more or having men out of position to try to confuse people.

    Of course what happened...happened. There is no going back. I'm just explaining my position and the how and why.

    I am actually fine with the defensive scheme currently in place. Another terrific DL, a great ILB, and a dominant CB can turn this unit into a destructive force. Just reminiscing about what could have been if not for a few awful situations.

    Shazier, Watt, Hargrave, Tuitt, Heyward, Fitzpatrick all on the field at the same time........are you f'ing kidding me? Unbelievable.
    That would’ve been a cool defensive approach to see. I’m just not sure its realistic.

    We all seem to forget that Alualu was doing the NT thing pretty doggone well at this point as well.

    Hargrave was a luxury that wasn’t feasible for a number of reasons.

    In complete hindsight it sucks. Tuitt left. Alualu got hurt. Planned replacements didn’t pan out. Etc.

    But I honestly believe that at the time, there are few teams that would’ve handled it any differently.

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    Re: Javon Hargrave to the 49ers: 4 years, $84 million

    Quote Originally Posted by Born2Steel View Post
    blah blah blah....
    Holy crap, I never realized that. Good thing you chimed in there, I never would have understood the situation without such nuanced insight. Real quality post.
    See you Space Cowboy ...

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    Re: Javon Hargrave to the 49ers: 4 years, $84 million

    Quote Originally Posted by steelreserve View Post
    Holy crap, I never realized that. Good thing you chimed in there, I never would have understood the situation without such nuanced insight. Real quality post.

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    Re: Javon Hargrave to the 49ers: 4 years, $84 million

    glad he got paid
    Formerly known as Fire Goodell

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    Re: Javon Hargrave to the 49ers: 4 years, $84 million

    Quote Originally Posted by DuckHodges View Post
    glad he got paid
    I'm glad when I get paid.

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    Re: Javon Hargrave to the 49ers: 4 years, $84 million

    Quote Originally Posted by DuckHodges View Post
    glad he got paid

    Yay! for Hargrave. I truly wish he could have made a spot on this defense. But I am glad for his continued success.

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    Re: Javon Hargrave to the 49ers: 4 years, $84 million

    Quote Originally Posted by Born2Steel View Post
    Yay! for Hargrave. I truly wish he could have made a spot on this defense. But I am glad for his continued success.
    If only they had the crystal ball to not give Tuitt that money…lol.

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    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

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    Re: Javon Hargrave to the 49ers: 4 years, $84 million

    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
    If only they had the crystal ball to not give Tuitt that money…lol.
    Steelers need a better Shaman. Any good ones in this year's draft?

  25. #25
    Senior Member Array title="DuckHodges has a reputation beyond repute"> DuckHodges's Avatar

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    Re: Javon Hargrave to the 49ers: 4 years, $84 million

    Quote Originally Posted by DesertSteel View Post
    I'm glad when I get paid.
    goes without saying lol. i'd be happy with backup NFL money lol
    Formerly known as Fire Goodell

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