CDC Changed Vinyl Chloride Toxicity Info 11 Days Before Derailment

[Dwinsgames]

Again...I haven't meant to insult you or anyone else. But both you and at least two other posters have pointedly said that the train derailment is part of plan. I can not figure out what the plan is. All I can come up with is a toxic train derailment would depopulate a very small town in Ohio. What's the point? Absolutely nothing for the powers that be would change with the removal of this town from the map.

So then I figure, I am missing what yourself and others are hinting at. So...what is the plan? Or at least what is the goal? What is to be gained by making East Palestine a superfund site? How would that make the powerful more powerful and the rich richer?

what exactly do you think asking someone a question and including lizard people in it is ?

its beyond insulting if you didn't already know that ...

if you or anyone else thinks the long term effects are going to be just East Palestine you are fooling yourself ...

several other small towns close by such as but not limited to Negley, Rogers ,Lisbon , New Middletown, Darlington ,Chippewa ,Wampum , West Pittsburgh (no relationship to pittsburgh) Midland, East Liverpool (and not far away from that is beaver Falls ( home town of Joe namath) new brighton , New castle , Ellwood city ) and I am nearly certain I am forgetting some others as this is off the top of my head .... everyone of those places is 15 miles or less as the crow flies , every one of those places had a black cloud over their heads , everyone of those places could smell the burning which means they breathed in the burning dioxins that nobody really wants to talk about and is an even greater danger than the other very dangerous things that have been breathed in and exposure has been had by all of those people ... they did this "controlled burn" that was not controlled at all if it had been they would have been able to control the amount of air in the burn which would have controlled the smoke the only "control that was involved was it didnt get out of hand any more than they let it .... and guess what happens that night ...IT RAINS so all that rain water is contaminated from the toxic cloud and disperses it over a 50 mile wide area that the cloud was looming over .........

now all of that isnt even taking into consideration all the run off from the rains going into creeks and water ways and wells that are upstream from the actual accident , and downstream from the derailment well hello Ohio River which feeds 10% of our nations drinking water ... so to sit and think its a small town only that is effected is very short sighted IMO

[Mojouw]

what exactly do you think asking someone a question and including lizard people in it is ?

its beyond insulting if you didn't already know that ...

if you or anyone else thinks the long term effects are going to be just East Palestine you are fooling yourself ...

several other small towns close by such as but not limited to Negley, Rogers ,Lisbon , New Middletown, Darlington ,Chippewa ,Wampum , West Pittsburgh (no relationship to pittsburgh) Midland, East Liverpool (and not far away from that is beaver Falls ( home town of Joe namath) new brighton , New castle , Ellwood city ) and I am nearly certain I am forgetting some others as this is off the top of my head .... everyone of those places is 15 miles or less as the crow flies , every one of those places had a black cloud over their heads , everyone of those places could smell the burning which means they breathed in the burning dioxins that nobody really wants to talk about and is an even greater danger than the other very dangerous things that have been breathed in and exposure has been had by all of those people ... they did this "controlled burn" that was not controlled at all if it had been they would have been able to control the amount of air in the burn which would have controlled the smoke the only "control that was involved was it didnt get out of hand any more than they let it .... and guess what happens that night ...IT RAINS so all that rain water is contaminated from the toxic cloud and disperses it over a 50 mile wide area that the cloud was looming over .........

now all of that isnt even taking into consideration all the run off from the rains going into creeks and water ways and wells that are upstream from the actual accident , and downstream from the derailment well hello Ohio River which feeds 10% of our nations drinking water ... so to sit and think its a small town only that is effected is very short sighted IMO

ok. So the goal of the planned derailment was to introduce toxins into the water supply. To what end?

You seem to be implying that a wide swath of population will die. Assume that outcome. What’s the reason for that being the planned outcome? How does it benefit anyone - be it the government or the railroad?

if you’re going to argue that these events are causally linked as part of a hidden agenda, it’s the logical follow up to speculate on what the goals of the people doing all this stuff are trying to achieve.

I think that this is a tragedy and appears to have a problematic at best response. But I just don’t see a larger plan in the works. You claim you do. I’m trying to understand what you think the goals of that plan are,,

[silver & black]

Read what Klause Mein and the WEF are about. This reeks of the "great reset". I know..... tin foil hat wearing idiot. That's okay. Where there's smoke there's fire... usually.

[Mojouw]

Read what Klause Mein and the WEF are about. This reeks of the "great reset". I know..... tin foil hat wearing idiot. That's okay. Where there's smoke there's fire... usually.

I’m thinking it’s not the Scorpions lead singer. But from what I could gather the “Great Reset” is where the liberals take over the world through economic means. Am I close?

Again, how does this train derailment get to that goal?

Are all train derailments (there an average of 3 per day) part of it?

[silver & black]

I’m thinking it’s not the Scorpions lead singer. But from what I could gather the “Great Reset” is where the liberals take over the world through economic means. Am I close?

Again, how does this train derailment get to that goal?

Are all train derailments (there an average of 3 per day) part of it?

Not sure how I got Klaus Mein...lol. Klause Shwab is who I meant. Too much bourbon I guess.

It isn't just train derailments. You can research Klaus Shwab, the WEF and their agenda. I'm not going to get into that on here with anyone. Suffice it to say that, there are too many things happening in the country/world to just dismiss as mere happenstance.

[Mojouw]

Not sure how I got Klaus Mein...lol. Klause Shwab is who I meant. Too much bourbon I guess.

It isn't just train derailments. You can research Klaus Shwab, the WEF and their agenda. I'm not going to get into that on here with anyone. Suffice it to say that, there are too many things happening in the country/world to just dismiss as mere happenstance.

Fair enough. You gave more of an answer than anyone else has been ever willing to give.

I believe some wacky stuff about a number of things. Most of it about long dead history things. But I always try to play out how does so and so benefit or advance their agenda through this or that action. And I just can not get how 1/1000 train derailment and 1/17 toxic train derailment (and that is just in the US!) per year is part of a larger global effort to undermine the current economic order.

If the starting point is "WEF bad" and the end point is "WEF chosen leftist elites running the world" this does not seem to be a midpoint on that spectrum...

[steelreserve]

First of all, it is entirely possible for the government to just plain suck ass, without it being part of some hidden agenda, and that is what appears to be going on here.

Now, when the person who is ostensibly in charge of safety and crisis response for this sector was already the subject of criticism for being appointed as a political favor despite being grossly unqualified for the job, and the results indicate exactly that, well then this is what you get.

Everyone remember in the 2020 presidential primary, when no one had a clear lead, but the DNC politburo desperately wanted a single candidate to coalesce behind, and then the day before some big primary day where a bunch of states voted at once, all the other candidates suddenly announced they were dropping out at once, for no apparent reason? Well, no doubt they were told stay in the race and we will ruin your political career forever, or drop out and you will get a nice payoff, like, say a cabinet position as Secretary of Transportation. So this is essentially the price that the public gets to pay so slimeball Democrats could rig their own primary (again), but it is all someone else's fault and it is just an argument I am having in my head, just fascinating to watch, something something strawman.

As far as the lizard people agenda goes, I would call that a colorfully imagined euphemism for the fact that we have undergone a political shift in which the goal of government has become to establish a new hierarchy in which political insiders are at the top, instead of the wealthy or the famous and influential, or god forbid the general public. The means of accomplishing this is on the backs of the least intelligent and the most easily manipulated, by convincing them they are the victims of some great conspiracy, and only the liberal government can be their white knight. Economics are one part of that - convincing people that the free-market system is unfair or even unsafe; that success is impossible; that the cost of everything is out of control; and that only more government control can help. The odd shortage or supply-chain disruption would be a welcome coincidence if this is your goal, too. But outside of economics, there is still the similar approach of convincing your subjects that they are the victims of all sorts of oppression and that life has become too unstable and dangerous for individuals to navigate, and so the solution is for the government to clamp down and for you to welcome it. All because the people leading one party are such creepy crawlies that they would gladly turn everything into a pile of shit just so they could be at the top of the pile of shit.

Like, really, these are the people who scream nonstop that your life is in imminent danger from one thing or another, that corporations are out to get you, that your neighbors and your landlord are out to get you, that the education system is out to get you, that the church is out to get you, that white supremacists are out to get you and they're everywhere, that everything is rigged against your particular race and gender, and by the way, even by existing you're killing the planet and you should feel bad about yourself too. And somehow that is NOT a wingnut conspiracy theory, and it's everyone else who DOESN'T believe it that's crazy and dangerous. Right.

[Dwinsgames]

https://www.wfmj.com/story/48499415/...kSCcU.facebook

[Dwinsgames]

makes on wonder if astro turf is being tied to brain cancer then what is going to happen in the region surrounding East Palestine ....

Six Philadelphia Phillies Died From Brain Cancer. AstroTurf Suspected Of Being The Cause.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/six-p...e4J-TkX8izEfUc

[Mojouw]

Are the chemicals from the derailment PFAS? I have read reports that say they are not. But I have not been keeping up on a daily basis.

[Dwinsgames]

Are the chemicals from the derailment PFAS? I have read reports that say they are not. But I have not been keeping up on a daily basis.

honestly do we or does anyone truly know what that cocktail of chemicals makes once its mixed with H2o or set a fire ?

[Mojouw]

honestly do we or does anyone truly know what that cocktail of chemicals makes once its mixed with H2o or set a fire ?

Do I? No. Does chemistry? Absolutely. Chemicals react to heat, water, and other chemicals in known and set ways. It is how the entire world around us is built.

[steelreserve]

Do I? No. Does chemistry? Absolutely. Chemicals react to heat, water, and other chemicals in known and set ways. It is how the entire world around us is built.

Smug pedantery aside, it is just astounding how frequently chemistry, physics, etc. are stood on their head as soon as they are confronted with unexpected conditions in the real world.

For instance, chemical A might react in a very specific way to heat and water when it is a lab sample under controlled conditions, and a completely different way if it is a railroad car full of it mixed with rusty metal, random dirt and mud, and unknown amounts of chemical C, D, and E at extreme temperatures and concentrations. Then all the people who said "of course we know, they react in set ways, it is how the entire world around us is built, you peon" stand around going "Huh, how about that, we've never seen that before. I guess we didn't know about THAT particular variation of science after all. Sorry about your family though."

The point is, maybe tone down the condescension about 10 or 12 notches, you are not nearly as smart or talented as you think.

[Mojouw]

It is only condescending if you choose to see it that way.

Personally, I find it comforting that the physical world around us works according to predictable and knowable systems. We can then use that knowledge to help mitigate problems when things like trains derail or other disasters strike.

We do not have to live in confusion and uncertainty. It is possible to know results and outcomes.

Unfortunately, that requires the slow and painstaking process of gathering information and analyzing that information. The fear and uncertainty that takes place then is awful and terrible to experience.

[steelreserve]

It is only condescending if you choose to see it that way.

Personally, I find it comforting that the physical world around us works according to predictable and knowable systems. We can then use that knowledge to help mitigate problems when things like trains derail or other disasters strike.

We do not have to live in confusion and uncertainty. It is possible to know results and outcomes.

Unfortunately, that requires the slow and painstaking process of gathering information and analyzing that information. The fear and uncertainty that takes place then is awful and terrible to experience.

You see, this is why scholars and experts are rightly criticized for having their heads in the clouds. You can spend your whole life reading and studying, and without a good helping of common sense to go along with it, all of it means nothing and you don't understand the world any better than someone who simply has shit for brains. It is just a false sense of certainty brought about by ignorance of the practical nature of things, as opposed to their theoretical study.

That is why your average trucker could probably tell you things about the direct impact of safety regulations and labor negotiations that would startle your learned academic, or a pool supply company might have a few insights about dangerous chemicals that an accomplished expert would be surprised by. The certainty of "Trust the Experts" is one of those things that works until it doesn't.

I would think one of the big revelations of recent times is that it is not so much that people need to "stay in their lane" and let The Experts do their jobs, but that The Experts will quite often get out of their lane and a healthy dose of skepticism rooted in common sense is often needed to shove them back into their lane. And in the meantime, boy do people get annoyed by know-it-alls who don't know it all or even close.

[Mojouw]

You see, this is why scholars and experts are rightly criticized for having their heads in the clouds. You can spend your whole life reading and studying, and without a good helping of common sense to go along with it, all of it means nothing and you don't understand the world any better than someone who simply has shit for brains. It is just a false sense of certainty brought about by ignorance of the practical nature of things, as opposed to their theoretical study.

That is why your average trucker could probably tell you things about the direct impact of safety regulations and labor negotiations that would startle your learned academic, or a pool supply company might have a few insights about dangerous chemicals that an accomplished expert would be surprised by. The certainty of "Trust the Experts" is one of those things that works until it doesn't.

I would think one of the big revelations of recent times is that it is not so much that people need to "stay in their lane" and let The Experts do their jobs, but that The Experts will quite often get out of their lane and a healthy dose of skepticism rooted in common sense is often needed to shove them back into their lane. And in the meantime, boy do people get annoyed by know-it-alls who don't know it all or even close.

So....your position is that chemicals when exposed to heat, other chemicals, and water will dissolve their chemical bonds and form new chemical bonds in ways that do not follow known principles of chemistry?

If so....we should really nominate you for several major awards. You have rewritten the entire field of chemistry.

[Mach1]

You see, this is why scholars and experts are rightly criticized for having their heads in the clouds. You can spend your whole life reading and studying, and without a good helping of common sense to go along with it, all of it means nothing and you don't understand the world any better than someone who simply has shit for brains. It is just a false sense of certainty brought about by ignorance of the practical nature of things, as opposed to their theoretical study.

That is why your average trucker could probably tell you things about the direct impact of safety regulations and labor negotiations that would startle your learned academic, or a pool supply company might have a few insights about dangerous chemicals that an accomplished expert would be surprised by. The certainty of "Trust the Experts" is one of those things that works until it doesn't.

I would think one of the big revelations of recent times is that it is not so much that people need to "stay in their lane" and let The Experts do their jobs, but that The Experts will quite often get out of their lane and a healthy dose of skepticism rooted in common sense is often needed to shove them back into their lane. And in the meantime, boy do people get annoyed by know-it-alls who don't know it all or even close.

You should know by now to blindly follow along and "trust the science".

[willy]

Why do so many Americans distrust science?

Medical science faces a credibility crisis that threatens its ability to protect people’s health. Scientists need to grasp the forces sowing suspicion about their work.

Editor’s note: This is the first in a series of articles about trust in science.
Medical science is creating miracles and losing trust. It’s emerging from the darkest days of the pandemic with both lifesaving discoveries and a crisis in credibility.

Although confusion and hostility are defining features of the past two years of COVID-19, the crisis of trust in our society didn’t start with COVID-19 and won’t end with COVID-19. It’s not about a disease, it’s not about Twitter, it’s not about facts alone.

“It’s not just a COVID thing,” warns Steven Joffe, MD, MPH, interim chair of the Department of Medical Ethics and Health Policy at the University of Pennsylvania Perelman School of Medicine.

Rather, the pandemic provided a fertile environment for myriad social and technological forces to breed confusion and distrust. Those forces ignite epidemics of misinformation against pillars of society: among them our systems of justice, education, science, and democracy.

“Trust in scientific institutions has taken a huge hit,” says Timothy Caulfield, LLM, research director of the Health Law Institute at the University of Alberta, Canada.

“The whole strength of science is that people who have different ideological bents can do experiments, transcend their prior beliefs, and try to build a foundation of facts,” says Janet Woodcock, MD, principal deputy commissioner of the Food and Drug Administration (FDA). “Now we have whole groups of people who don’t believe that.”

Moving forward, scientists working on high-visibility health projects are more likely than ever to find themselves operating within an infodemic: an overload of information about a problem, much of it wrong, that makes it harder to solve the problem.
Science leaders in government and academia say that meeting the challenge to regain credibility requires a deeper understanding of several conditions:

The forces and factors behind distrust, which include a public overwhelmed by too much information, growing polarization, disinformation campaigns by domestic or foreign corporations and governments, a media environment that rewards outrage and outlandishness, and the increasingly public nature of scientific research.

The people who spread and who absorb misinformation, who include those who set out to find the truth but get confused or outraged by misinformation they stumble into; conspiracy theorists who gravitate toward stories that confirm their suspicions; and organized groups that peddle disinformation for profit.

https://www.aamc.org/news-insights/w...strust-science

================================================== =============================- - - Updated - - -

You should know by now to blindly follow along and "trust the science".

You have to wonder just who people like Mach1 and steelreserve are really working for?

The motives behind disinformation, which is a form of misinformation that is deliberately deceptive. Those motives include politics (arousing opposition to the other side), profit (making money by pushing bogus scientific products), social advocacy (raising support for a cause that cuts against the scientific consensus), and even foreign affairs (sowing distrust in an adversary’s government). For example, reports by the European Parliament and the Center for European Policy Analysis concluded that Russia and China spread disinformation about COVID-19’s origins and COVID-19 vaccines in order to convince people in democracies that they “cannot trust their health systems” and to “exacerbate tensions” in Western governments.

Disinformation strategists “are weaponizing scientific uncertainty and trying to create distrust,” says Caulfield, a law professor who studies those strategies. “They’re trying to create information chaos.”

https://www.aamc.org/news-insights/w...strust-science

[steelreserve]

So....your position is that chemicals when exposed to heat, other chemicals, and water will dissolve their chemical bonds and form new chemical bonds in ways that do not follow known principles of chemistry?

If so....we should really nominate you for several major awards. You have rewritten the entire field of chemistry.

Pay close attention to the bold part, although that may be asking a lot of one of your disposition.

The point is that known scientific principles are often chock full of surprises when you randomly introduce massive new variables. For example, in this case I bet no one has ever done an experiment in which they took a railroad-car sized sample of a particular substance, mixed it with whatever random slop was lying around, and burned it in an uncontrolled fire.

They are always discovering new and strange ways that materials behave under extreme conditions. All sorts of unpredictable side effects happen in uncontrolled environments or at large scales. I guess this is basically just another way of saying that the process of scientific discovery often occurs from observing unusual phenomena. Or put another way, that there is still so much undiscovered that for someone like you to be lecturing someone like me, who possesses a clear understanding of the principles involved, is laughable and mostly only demonstrates an overinflated opinion of yourself.

[Orion]

You should know by now to blindly follow along and "trust the science".

exactly...lighting it on fire was totally safe and effective. a little acid rain has never hurt nobody.

[Dwinsgames]

Do I? No. Does chemistry? Absolutely. Chemicals react to heat, water, and other chemicals in known and set ways. It is how the entire world around us is built.

ohhh , sorry I was unaware that they had tested those exact amounts of each chemical blended together in an unbalance flow of one another some wet with water and other flame retardants put on them by the fire dept and all at different temps do to some being on fire some not then all on fire .....

then as mentioned dirt , rock , other leaked materials from trains , creosote from the railroad ties all rolled into one massive cocktail ..... now ya go an tell me they know what exactly it creates because those variables have all been tested and factored together correctly ....


how could I be so dumb as to not realize all that ... my apologies for taking up your and others time reading my un thought out drivel

[Mojouw]

We know how chemical bonds work. We know what things are made of. Therefore, if we want, all of those questions are answerable. The world is not as confusing and confounding as some of you are making it out to be. This is relatively basic chemistry. The train didn't derail into the heart of a star or a black hole or some other laws of the universe breaking phenomenon.

All fire is is heat. All the heat is energy to break chemical bonds. Then the elements in each chemical can recombine. Chemistry knows which elements disassociate at which energy levels and which elements like to bond with what other elements. Should be fairly straightforward to come up with a list of things that could be forged in the chemical cocktail of the derailment and clean-up. Then start testing the surrounding area for their signatures.

This was actually done during one of the recent fires out west when heat, residential construction materials, and fire fighting chemicals combined to create compounds that were first not being looked for. People got together, worked through what was taking place, and began to identify and track the compounds.

Has it been answered right at this moment? Likely not. But is it a thing that can be known and known relatively quickly? Absolutely.

If I lived there would it ever be quick enough for me? Absolutely not.

It is a tragic situation and absolutely heartbreaking to think of the daily lives of those that live there right now. But it is not a hopeless one. With the proper direction of money and time, the clean-up, restoration, and improvement of the people, land, and water of East Palestine is well within the capacity of human knowledge and skill. We just have to maintain the will to ensure it takes place.

Hopefully, the collective "We" can continue to hold the railroad and other parties to their promises and develop new groups to fill any gaps in services that are identified.

[Dwinsgames]

We know how chemical bonds work. We know what things are made of. Therefore, if we want, all of those questions are answerable. The world is not as confusing and confounding as some of you are making it out to be. This is relatively basic chemistry. The train didn't derail into the heart of a star or a black hole or some other laws of the universe breaking phenomenon.

All fire is is heat. All the heat is energy to break chemical bonds. Then the elements in each chemical can recombine. Chemistry knows which elements disassociate at which energy levels and which elements like to bond with what other elements. Should be fairly straightforward to come up with a list of things that could be forged in the chemical cocktail of the derailment and clean-up. Then start testing the surrounding area for their signatures.

This was actually done during one of the recent fires out west when heat, residential construction materials, and fire fighting chemicals combined to create compounds that were first not being looked for. People got together, worked through what was taking place, and began to identify and track the compounds.

Has it been answered right at this moment? Likely not. But is it a thing that can be known and known relatively quickly? Absolutely.

If I lived there would it ever be quick enough for me? Absolutely not.

It is a tragic situation and absolutely heartbreaking to think of the daily lives of those that live there right now. But it is not a hopeless one. With the proper direction of money and time, the clean-up, restoration, and improvement of the people, land, and water of East Palestine is well within the capacity of human knowledge and skill. We just have to maintain the will to ensure it takes place.

Hopefully, the collective "We" can continue to hold the railroad and other parties to their promises and develop new groups to fill any gaps in services that are identified.

ahh just like Flint Michigan

[Mojouw]

ahh just like Flint Michigan

Unfortunately, that is likely what will happen. Attention and scrutiny will move on to something else and the various public and private actors responsible for completing the job will not discharge their responsibilities.

But that won't be because we don't understand what we are dealing with. It will be because the railroad and the government will almost certainly shirk their duties.

[steelreserve]

Well, that sure went from "You are all fools who don't understand basic principles of chemistry and are frightened of the world in your ignorance" to "It's more or less just what you said, but chemistry will figure it out eventually" in a hurry.

[Mojouw]

Well, that sure went from "You are all fools who don't understand basic principles of chemistry and are frightened of the world in your ignorance" to "It's more or less just what you said, but chemistry will figure it out eventually" in a hurry.

Not at all.

The original question was that there was no way of knowing what chemicals would be in East Palestine. The answer to that has always been there are totally ways of knowing and we can and will know those things.

Do I or others have faith that the railroad and government agencies will use those tools properly? That is an entirely separate question. And no one should believe that political whims and the profit focus on a private company will allow for the consistent execution of a long-term project.

[Dwinsgames]

but its safe for residents to go about their lives as normal in their homes .....

[Dwinsgames]

Just a reminder that these folks are still in dire need of help and our government is basically ignoring it and deferring to the railroad who caused this disaster

[willy]

Just a reminder that these folks are still in dire need of help and our government is basically ignoring it and deferring to the railroad who caused this disaster

[Dwinsgames]

no clue what monkey fucker posted he's been on ignore for nearly 2 years now but I can bet it was a gem of twisted bullshit like it always is