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Thread: Andy Reid:Where does he rank all-time now?

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    Re: Andy Reid:Where does he rank all-time now?

    Cocaine does not give you super powers. Not sure being coked out would improve your NFL performance. I guess it would help you ignore pain…

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    Re: Andy Reid:Where does he rank all-time now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Cocaine does not give you super powers. Not sure being coked out would improve your NFL performance. I guess it would help you ignore pain…


    A person that takes enough to get extremely jacked up, but still have some cognitive ability left is a dangerous fuck. I hear people say stuff with no actual experience dealing with it or against it.

    I don't wish it on anyone, but being in a physical struggle with someone that is in that state is hard to describe. People that don't think it's real have never seen an average guy start tossing around 4 or 5 cops...or seen someone break something with a punch or their head that shouldn't be possible. Ever see a man have to be tazed 5 times to get him to drop to his knees. Now imagine that guy in pads and a helmet.

    Believe me, I'm not saying it's everybody that it can happen to, but it does happen.

    These people go harder, faster, longer, feel no pain, and operate at a physical level that can't be matched when you are wired. They don’t get tired. They just keep going.

    Of course he was a great player, but I will never give him full credit just based on what he [I]did[I] admit to doing. I would bet anything it was worse than even he admitted.

    The guy should have never been on a football field.

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    Re: Andy Reid:Where does he rank all-time now?

    Quote Originally Posted by pczach View Post
    A person that takes enough to get extremely jacked up, but still have some cognitive ability left is a dangerous fuck. I hear people say stuff with no actual experience dealing with it or against it.

    I don't wish it on anyone, but being in a physical struggle with someone that is in that state is hard to describe. People that don't think it's real have never seen an average guy start tossing around 4 or 5 cops...or seen someone break something with a punch or their head that shouldn't be possible. Ever see a man have to be tazed 5 times to get him to drop to his knees. Now imagine that guy in pads and a helmet.

    Believe me, I'm not saying it's everybody that it can happen to, but it does happen.

    These people go harder, faster, longer, feel no pain, and operate at a physical level that can't be matched when you are wired. They don’t get tired. They just keep going.

    Of course he was a great player, but I will never give him full credit just based on what he [I]did[I] admit to doing. I would bet anything it was worse than even he admitted.

    The guy should have never been on a football field.
    Does it?

    Cops really liked pushing that story of drug fueled supermen. But almost every study contradicts that.

    I’ll buy that it makes pain no longer relevant but it’s not like you blow a few lines and just turn into the hulk.

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    Re: Andy Reid:Where does he rank all-time now?

    LT wasn't the only NFL linebacker who played coked up. He wasn't even the only NY Giant that played coked up. What LT was was the only Lawrence Taylor who played coked up. That's why he's one of the top 3 players to ever walk out onto an NFL field of play. Because he's Lawrence Taylor.

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    Re: Andy Reid:Where does he rank all-time now?

    Quote Originally Posted by willy View Post
    Interchangeable:

    Brady
    Brown
    Taylor
    Brady, on the basis of longevity, agree. He wasn’t the greatest but had the best career.
    Brown, I agree but it’s tough to compare eras.
    Taylor, I can’t say. That was a time period when I wasn’t watching much football. But he’s on the Mt. Rushmore of defensive players along with Reggie, Mean Joe and Aaron Donald.

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    Re: Andy Reid:Where does he rank all-time now?

    Quote Originally Posted by DesertSteel View Post
    Brady, on the basis of longevity, agree. He wasn’t the greatest but had the best career.
    Brown, I agree but it’s tough to compare eras.
    Taylor, I can’t say. That was a time period when I wasn’t watching much football. But he’s on the Mt. Rushmore of defensive players along with Reggie, Mean Joe and Aaron Donald.
    I can't argue with any of your takes.

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    Re: Andy Reid:Where does he rank all-time now?

    Quote Originally Posted by willy View Post
    LT wasn't the only NFL linebacker who played coked up. He wasn't even the only NY Giant that played coked up. What LT was was the only Lawrence Taylor who played coked up. That's why he's one of the top 3 players to ever walk out onto an NFL field of play. Because he's Lawrence Taylor.


    I understand that. There were other guys doing drugs, and steroids were a problem before that when they weren't controlled more by the NFL. IF you read my links, Parcells said he had 20-30 players that he knew did some form of drugs in his first four years as head coach of the Giants.

    He was a legitimately great player, but when you hear the first-hand accounts of what went on and the extent of it....I just know it had an impact. I guess how much is up for debate, but if you've ever been in that situation with a guy that was out of his mind jacked up you would better understand where I'm coming from.

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    Re: Andy Reid:Where does he rank all-time now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Does it?

    Cops really liked pushing that story of drug fueled supermen. But almost every study contradicts that.

    I’ll buy that it makes pain no longer relevant but it’s not like you blow a few lines and just turn into the hulk.



    I have a martial arts background and did some kickboxing. I've probably taken on a couple situations that most haven't to protect people. I've had a couple encounters with men that were very hard to stop. I'm talking about landing shots to parts of the body that would drop anybody......and I mean anybody. They just keep coming and they are literally grabbing people and throwing them. I've seen a guy smash a car window with his head intentionally and just turn around and start laughing. I've seen small men throw 300 lb bouncers around like they were elementary school girls. I know what many studies say, but if you've seen it first hand and felt that power....it's hard to explain to another person who hasn't.

    I'm sure you've heard the stories about adrenaline kicking in and people doing inhuman things and performing feats of incredible strength. I'm telling you that I've seen it and experienced it firsthand. Believe me, I know how unreal it sounds.

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    Re: Andy Reid:Where does he rank all-time now?

    Quote Originally Posted by pczach View Post
    I have a martial arts background and did some kickboxing. I've probably taken on a couple situations that most haven't to protect people. I've had a couple encounters with men that were very hard to stop. I'm talking about landing shots to parts of the body that would drop anybody......and I mean anybody. They just keep coming and they are literally grabbing people and throwing them. I've seen a guy smash a car window with his head intentionally and just turn around and start laughing. I've seen small men throw 300 lb bouncers around like they were elementary school girls. I know what many studies say, but if you've seen it first hand and felt that power....it's hard to explain to another person who hasn't.

    I'm sure you've heard the stories about adrenaline kicking in and people doing inhuman things and performing feats of incredible strength. I'm telling you that I've seen it and experienced it firsthand. Believe me, I know how unreal it sounds.
    Sure. But you have a toxic stew of alcohol, coke, places that need 300 lb bouncers, and who knows what other substances.

    Remove inhibitions, turn off pain receptors, and throw a bunch of people who like to fight and a great deal of stupid is gonna happen.

    If coke turned mere mortals into LT, everyone would be doing it. Drug tests are easy enough to beat.

    LT would’ve been a monster without the booger sugar.

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    Re: Andy Reid:Where does he rank all-time now?

    "Lawrence Taylor was the toughest defender to play against" - Every offensive lineman that ever played during his era.

    Could TJ Watt of today be what LT was during that era? I don't know and neither does anybody else. But what is proven is they are both bad MFers in their time.

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    Re: Andy Reid:Where does he rank all-time now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    If coke turned mere mortals into LT, everyone would be doing it.
    I'm pretty sure that's not what he's saying. He's saying that LT was already a great player and the coke gave him even more of an advantage.

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    Re: Andy Reid:Where does he rank all-time now?

    Quote Originally Posted by DesertSteel View Post
    I'm pretty sure that's not what he's saying. He's saying that LT was already a great player and the coke gave him even more of an advantage.
    Might be what was meant but Not what was said. Argument was that LT was a mediocre at best college player until he found intensity via the devils powder.

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    Re: Andy Reid:Where does he rank all-time now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Might be what was meant but Not what was said. Argument was that LT was a mediocre at best college player until he found intensity via the devils powder.
    Well he certainly didn’t say that the average mortal could turn himself into LT by doing coke. You know how it is… tom drives everyone to some level of irrationality.

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    Re: Andy Reid:Where does he rank all-time now?

    Quote Originally Posted by DesertSteel View Post
    Well he certainly didn’t say that the average mortal could turn himself into LT by doing coke. You know how it is… tom drives everyone to some level of irrationality.
    True dat

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    Re: Andy Reid:Where does he rank all-time now?

    Quote Originally Posted by DesertSteel View Post
    I'm pretty sure that's not what he's saying. He's saying that LT was already a great player and the coke gave him even more of an advantage.


    Bingo.

    Anybody that read through all my posts and links would get the full picture of a young man that had physical gifts but lacked intensity. His college coach specifically said if he could consistently find his intensity he would be as good as anyone. He was so incredibly gifted and had a grand total of 5 sacks his first three years at a college program that was never a hotbed of elite talent. That tells you that he was lacking something. He then went crazy his final year and had 16 sacks. The rest is history, but he found something to get that intensity. Any player that physically gifted that is then snorting cocaine in the locker room and running out on the field has an advantage. People that don't want to see that are fooling themselves. The fact that this is not conjecture, but actually from the mouths of the people that lived it and were around it tells you what you need to know.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Might be what was meant but Not what was said. Argument was that LT was a mediocre at best college player until he found intensity via the devils powder.


    If you read all my comments and the linked material, you would get my point.

    Also, I clarified that point in post #37 above for anyone that didn't get where I was coming from.

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    Re: Andy Reid:Where does he rank all-time now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Can’t wait to hear your take on Reggie White, Walter Payton, and Joe Montana.
    Greatest Ever, second greatest ever, GOAT.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

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    Re: Andy Reid:Where does he rank all-time now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Cocaine does not give you super powers. Not sure being coked out would improve your NFL performance. I guess it would help you ignore pain…
    You haven’t seen cocaine bear…

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

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    Re: Andy Reid:Where does he rank all-time now?

    Quote Originally Posted by pczach View Post
    Bingo.

    Anybody that read through all my posts and links would get the full picture of a young man that had physical gifts but lacked intensity. His college coach specifically said if he could consistently find his intensity he would be as good as anyone. He was so incredibly gifted and had a grand total of 5 sacks his first three years at a college program that was never a hotbed of elite talent. That tells you that he was lacking something. He then went crazy his final year and had 16 sacks. The rest is history, but he found something to get that intensity. Any player that physically gifted that is then snorting cocaine in the locker room and running out on the field has an advantage. People that don't want to see that are fooling themselves. The fact that this is not conjecture, but actually from the mouths of the people that lived it and were around it tells you what you need to know.

    - - - Updated - - -





    If you read all my comments and the linked material, you would get my point.

    Also, I clarified that point in post #37 above for anyone that didn't get where I was coming from.
    I just don't buy your theory that Taylor lacked intensity until he starting using cocaine.


    UNC coach about Taylor as a freshman:

    "After graduating from Lafayette High School in 1977,[13] Taylor attended the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill where he was a team captain,[14] and wore No. 98. Originally recruited as a defensive lineman, Taylor switched to linebacker before the 1979 season.[15] He had 16 sacks in his final year there (1980),[16] and set numerous defensive records. He was recognized as a consensus first-team All-American and the Atlantic Coast Conference Player of the Year in 1980.[8] While there the coaching staff marveled at his intense, reckless style of play. "As a freshman playing on special teams, he'd jump a good six or seven feet in the air to block a punt, then land on the back of his neck", said North Carolina assistant coach Bobby Cale. "He was reckless, just reckless."[16] UNC later retired Taylor's jersey."

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    Re: Andy Reid:Where does he rank all-time now?

    Quote Originally Posted by willy View Post
    I just don't buy your theory that Taylor lacked intensity until he starting using cocaine.


    UNC coach about Taylor as a freshman:

    "After graduating from Lafayette High School in 1977,[13] Taylor attended the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill where he was a team captain,[14] and wore No. 98. Originally recruited as a defensive lineman, Taylor switched to linebacker before the 1979 season.[15] He had 16 sacks in his final year there (1980),[16] and set numerous defensive records. He was recognized as a consensus first-team All-American and the Atlantic Coast Conference Player of the Year in 1980.[8] While there the coaching staff marveled at his intense, reckless style of play. "As a freshman playing on special teams, he'd jump a good six or seven feet in the air to block a punt, then land on the back of his neck", said North Carolina assistant coach Bobby Cale. "He was reckless, just reckless."[16] UNC later retired Taylor's jersey."



    I guess people aren't actually reading my posts or reading the links before commenting.

    This is a direct quote I posted in post #27 in this thread. This is the direct quote from his coach at NC.

    Here's an interesting quote from his coach Dick Crum: "When he has his mind on his business, he's as good as there is. I'm talking about everybody in the country now. He is that talented. But, he's got to be mentally ready every Saturday. As coaches, we can help him get there. But, in the end, he has to develop that intensity himself. If he does, he's going to be a great one."

    https://www.tarheelblog.com/2017/9/1...cc-ncaa-giants

    You're not buying it? HIS OWN HEAD COACH SAID IT.

    There's a difference between running down a field for a single special teams play that lasts 8 seconds, and bringing it play in and play out as a starting football position player. If you don't understand that, I don't know what to tell you.

    Again..........his own head coach made that quote. You don't have to buy it. The quote is owned by everyone already.

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    Re: Andy Reid:Where does he rank all-time now?

    Quote Originally Posted by pczach View Post
    Again..........his own head coach made that quote. You don't have to buy it. The quote is owned by everyone already.
    Not only don't I buy your theory, I don't think anyone else does. You're jumping to all kinds of conclusions. All his coach is saying is that if he's ready to go every Saturday he'll be as good as anyone in the country. Hardly a damning remark.

    Prior to the 1980 season, this is what Coach Dick Crum had to say about Taylor:
    When he has his mind on his business, he's as good as there is. I'm talking about everybody in the country now. He is that talented. But, he's got to be mentally ready every Saturday. As coaches, we can help him get there. But, in the end, he has to develop that intensity himself. If he does, he's going to be a great one.
    Taylor certainly made 1980 a great one and set himself up for a Hall of Fame career. Taylor’s All-American season led a defense that finished eighth nationally in scoring defense and 11th in total defense. The 1980 team finished 11-1 overall, had a final AP ranking of 10th, and captured the last ACC Championship for the North Carolina Tar Heels.

    That, 1980 season, was without cocaine.
    Last edited by willy; 02-25-2023 at 12:32 PM.

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    Re: Andy Reid:Where does he rank all-time now?

    I think at this point in history we all already have our well established views on Lawrence Taylor. That, plus this is an Andy Reid thread, probably does mean most people are not reading though the entire posts on the cocaine debate. It is entertaining for some of us though. Let's push to the meat of the debate and make a list of your top10 LBs in NFL history. You can use caveats with cocaine/steroids/unfair human genetics/etc...

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    Re: Andy Reid:Where does he rank all-time now?

    Cocaine just doesn't work how some to think it does. It isn't like the juice Bane uses or something.

    From: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2657493/
    "Despite the popular myth, cocaine does not really enhance performance, whether in the job, in sports, at school, or during sex. " and "The effects from snorting may last 15–30 minutes whereas the effects from smoking may last 5–10 minutes."
    So, even if LT got the mythical powers from snooter tooter - it would wear off before they finished on field warm-ups.

    https://scholarlycommons.pacific.edu/uop_etds/2202/
    Cocaine degrades physical performance and endurance.

    https://www.cureus.com/articles/7302...en-together#!/
    The observed effects of coke fueled rage fests is likely significantly due to the introduction of alcohol.

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    Re: Andy Reid:Where does he rank all-time now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Might be what was meant but Not what was said. Argument was that LT was a mediocre at best college player until he found intensity via the devils powder.
    how did a mediocre college player become the #2 overall pick in the draft? lol
    Formerly known as Fire Goodell

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    Re: Andy Reid:Where does he rank all-time now?

    Top 5 head coach of all-time at least!

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    Re: Andy Reid:Where does he rank all-time now?

    Quote Originally Posted by polamalubeast View Post
    Top 5 head coach of all-time at least!
    He's better than Belichick. And his coaching tree has had success. Having Mahomes doesn't hurt either

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    Re: Andy Reid:Where does he rank all-time now?

    Easy Top-5. Maybe Top-3.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

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    Re: Andy Reid:Where does he rank all-time now?

    He ranks wherever Patrick Mahomes takes him.

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    Re: Andy Reid:Where does he rank all-time now?

    Quote Originally Posted by DesertSteel View Post
    He ranks wherever Patrick Mahomes takes him.
    At least he had a winning record without his cowbell QB. Belichick is so overrated. His record without Brady is bad. Reid won with so so QB'S.

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    Re: Andy Reid:Where does he rank all-time now?

    Quote Originally Posted by EzraTank View Post
    At least he had a winning record without his cowbell QB. Belichick is so overrated. His record without Brady is bad. Reid won with so so QB'S.
    Reid won for like over 60% of his games and 11 playoffs win without Mahomes in 19 years....Not bad!

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    Re: Andy Reid:Where does he rank all-time now?

    Andy Reid has 25 playoffs win,6 playoffs win away from the record of Belichick(31)

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