James Harrison explained why today's Steelers Defense just isn't, and won't be as great as the ones he played on

[Mojouw]

OK.

You have finally uncovered the big lie that the entire football world has perpetrated. Dick Lebeau was a terrible defensive coach. And it is only from the grace of Bill Cowher that he was able to do anything.

And in terms of pieces....your story doesn't hold up.

This is who was on the team in 1991: https://www.pro-football-reference.c...991_roster.htm. So all those players are not Cowher guys. This is who was on the team in 1992: https://www.pro-football-reference.c...992_roster.htm -- so Darren Perry.

Then, 1993: https://www.pro-football-reference.c...993_roster.htm and 1994: https://www.pro-football-reference.c...994_roster.htm where both Capers and Lebeau discuss how they pushed for Greene and Brown. I have also heard them say they wanted Seals as well.

If we go by your logic, Noll built the defense since he left Cowher et al with Woodson, Lake, and Lloyd. The only non Lebeau/Capers selection for the defense was Darren Perry.

And this is straight from your post: "His development of the zone blitz isn't really relevant to this topic, did Bill Cowher build the Blitzbugh defense, or did Dick LeBeau?"

It is highly relevant, because again, the two dudes who ran the Blitzburgh defense (capers and lebeau) are on record all over the place saying how they basically decided after 1991-1992 that they were going to go "all in" on running zone blitz concepts as not part of the defense, but as the entire defense. I mean, I guess we can consider that the guy who invented it and was specifically brought over to teach the defense (why do you think they hired this failed coordinator?) had nothing to do with it.

[lipps83]

OK.

You have finally uncovered the big lie that the entire football world has perpetrated. Dick Lebeau was a terrible defensive coach. And it is only from the grace of Bill Cowher that he was able to do anything.

And in terms of pieces....your story doesn't hold up.

This is who was on the team in 1991: https://www.pro-football-reference.c...991_roster.htm. So all those players are not Cowher guys. This is who was on the team in 1992: https://www.pro-football-reference.c...992_roster.htm -- so Darren Perry.

Then, 1993: https://www.pro-football-reference.c...993_roster.htm and 1994: https://www.pro-football-reference.c...994_roster.htm where both Capers and Lebeau discuss how they pushed for Greene and Brown. I have also heard them say they wanted Seals as well.

If we go by your logic, Noll built the defense since he left Cowher et al with Woodson, Lake, and Lloyd. The only non Lebeau/Capers selection for the defense was Darren Perry.

And this is straight from your post: "His development of the zone blitz isn't really relevant to this topic, did Bill Cowher build the Blitzbugh defense, or did Dick LeBeau?"

It is highly relevant, because again, the two dudes who ran the Blitzburgh defense (capers and lebeau) are on record all over the place saying how they basically decided after 1991-1992 that they were going to go "all in" on running zone blitz concepts as not part of the defense, but as the entire defense. I mean, I guess we can consider that the guy who invented it and was specifically brought over to teach the defense (why do you think they hired this failed coordinator?) had nothing to do with it.

Here you go again putting words into my mouth and trying to twist my argument around. I did not say he was a terrible defensive coach. I am saying his defensive schemes were only truly successful when stacked with talent. When it didn't have the talent to support it, it wasn't very good.

That isn't the tell-tale sign of a good scheme. A good scheme is consistent regardless of the talent. You don't need all-pros at every position to be successful. His bottom of the league defenses while with the Bengals proves that. He had 7 years to do that with the Bengals and he could not. You cannot erase that from history as much as you are trying to.

Also, I guess Bill Cowher must have had no say whatsoever in how the defense was run. He must have been watching Family Matters or something when defensive discussions must have come up and was only interested in talking about offense and special teams. Kind of surprising since he was a defensive minded coach.

You are also putting 'creating the zone blitz' and 'defensive coordinator' as the same thing. I am not.

[Mojouw]

Here you go again putting words into my mouth and trying to twist my argument around. I did not say he was a terrible defensive coach. I am saying his defensive schemes were only truly successful when stacked with talent. When it didn't have the talent to support it, it wasn't very good.

That isn't the tell-tale sign of a good scheme. A good scheme is consistent regardless of the talent. You don't need all-pros at every position to be successful. His bottom of the league defenses while with the Bengals proves that. He had 7 years to do that with the Bengals and he could not. You cannot erase that from history as much as you are trying to.

Also, I guess Bill Cowher must have had no say whatsoever in how the defense was run. He must have been watching Family Matters or something when defensive discussions must have come up and was only interested in talking about offense and special teams. Kind of surprising since he was a defensive minded coach.

You are also putting 'creating the zone blitz' and 'defensive coordinator' as the same thing. I am not.

You said that Cowher built the Blitzburgh defense. So...explain how he did that? Players were either already there or requested by the two coaches brought in to install a specific scheme -- that one of them invented. I am sure Cowher had input, ideas, and thoughts that were integrated into the entire stew pot that was the defensive planning, but going by the known roster events and the words of the coaches that were there....it isn't at all what you were originally saying.

I don't know how the Bengals were run. Did Lebeau have draft input? We know that in Pittsburgh, he had the input to make sure he had the LBs (Brown, Kirkland, Greene, and Lloyd) needed to run his system. I'm gonna guess that lacking an equivalent in Cincy might have a negative impact.

Also...where are these defensive systems that do not require specific talent to run? You should really let NFL teams know that there are defensive schemes that they can run and be dominant with while having mediocre players. Myself and my pea sized booze addled brain can not think of a single one....but that's me.

So...a dude invents the NFL version of a defense. Then is hired to the defensive staff. Then that team switches to that defensive scheme and the existing DC publicly states that they were running Lebeau's stuff and getting the players in house to do that...but...sure...we can worry about who had what title.

Giving Lebeau credit does not lessen the coaching acumen of Capers, Cowher, and whoever else I am forgetting. This isn't a zero sum game.

You are trying to rewrite the acknowledge history of the events. By that I mean the key coaches involved actually say x, y, z and you are saying a, b, c. This isn't really you arguing with me, but arguing with Capers and Lebeau.

[fansince'76]

I did not say he was a terrible defensive coach. I am saying his defensive schemes were only truly successful when stacked with talent. When it didn't have the talent to support it, it wasn't very good.

Indeed. The 2009 season was a perfect example of that after Polamalu went down to injury and was no longer on the field doing Polamalu-like things and the defense coughed up FIVE 4th quarter leads for losses. As I recall, Arians was the scapegoat for it with the fans, but I'm sorry, when you have the likes of the Bruce Gradkowski-to-Louis Murphy connection going 90 yards in the last 2 minutes of the game to beat you with a game-winning TD, your defense is the problem.

And then there was the whole "players don't see significant playing time on defense here until at least year 3 because the scheme requires at least that long as well as a PhD in quantum physics to learn since it's just sooo complicated" which was also not a good thing when trying to evaluate which players to keep or not past their rookie deals.

[lipps83]

You said that Cowher built the Blitzburgh defense. So...explain how he did that? Players were either already there or requested by the two coaches brought in to install a specific scheme -- that one of them invented. I am sure Cowher had input, ideas, and thoughts that were integrated into the entire stew pot that was the defensive planning, but going by the known roster events and the words of the coaches that were there....it isn't at all what you were originally saying.

Yes. They were brought in to deploy the type of defense that Bill Cowher wanted this team to have.

I don't know how the Bengals were run. Did Lebeau have draft input? We know that in Pittsburgh, he had the input to make sure he had the LBs (Brown, Kirkland, Greene, and Lloyd) needed to run his system. I'm gonna guess that lacking an equivalent in Cincy might have a negative impact.

I would imagine that he did since the Bengals hired him in an attempt to emulate the success on defense that Pittsburgh was having.

Also...where are these defensive systems that do not require specific talent to run? You should really let NFL teams know that there are defensive schemes that they can run and be dominant with while having mediocre players. Myself and my pea sized booze addled brain can not think of a single one....but that's me.

Obviously all schemes need talent. A good coordinator running a good scheme can usually keep his defense within the league average (middle) and as they add or lose talent the overall defense is going to fluctuate. Outside of Pittsburgh, LeBeau's was in the bottom 75% percent of the time. That's not good. After 7 seasons in Cincinnati he could not come close to duplicating the success that Pittsburgh was having.

You are trying to rewrite the acknowledge history of the events. By that I mean the key coaches involved actually say x, y, z and you are saying a, b, c. This isn't really you arguing with me, but arguing with Capers and Lebeau.

No I am not. I absolutely am able to see LeBeau's contributions to the team. However, just because you invent something does not mean you are also going to be the best at deploying it (see Bengals).

Bill Cowher hired Dom Capers and Dick LeBeau because he felt that they would be the best at implementing the type of defense that he wanted this team to have. He didn't just hire them and then turn a blind eye to what was happening with the defense.

That being said, when LeBeau came back the 2nd time the Steelers put out some of the best defenses that I have ever seen, and maybe even will see.

But it wasn't just Dick LeBeau that was responsible for their successes, like everyone likes to pretend.

They were already good before he took over (both times).

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Indeed. The 2009 season was a perfect example of that after Polamalu went down to injury and was no longer on the field doing Polamalu-like things and the defense coughed up FIVE 4th quarter leads for losses. As I recall, Arians was the scapegoat for it with the fans, but I'm sorry, when you have the likes of the Bruce Gradkowski-to-Louis Murphy connection going 90 yards in the last 2 minutes of the game to beat you with a game-winning TD, your defense is the problem.

And then there was the whole "players don't see significant playing time on defense here until at least year 3 because the scheme requires at least that long as well as a PhD in quantum physics to learn since it's just sooo complicated" which was also not a good thing when trying to evaluate which players to keep or not past their rookie deals.

Yes, that's not even getting into the 'last minute heroics' some teams just seemed to have against LeBeau's scary good defensive scheme (see 49'ers vs Bengals Super Bowl and 'the Drive').

[Mojouw]

You can break it into whatever chunks you want. But here it is from the people who were there:

"Dick had done more zone blitzing than I had," recalls Capers. "But I had done some too. We started talking, and it was really pretty exciting." and "Our pass rushers were not nearly as good as what we had in New Orleans," says Capers. "Three quarters of the way through that first season, we only had 19 sacks. We just weren't getting to the quarterback enough. It reached the point, late in that season, where Dick and I just said to each other, 'We've got to do something X's and O's-wise because our front seven guys are just not beating people one-on-one." "If you looked at our secondary," Capers continues, "we had some pretty good guys back there -- Rod Woodson, Carnell Lake. So in the latter part of the season we started mixing in some zone pressures and getting more pressure on the quarterback. The secondary responded well, and the guys up front loved it because it was aggressive." The Steelers improved so significantly down the stretch that year, en route to an 11--5 record, that they finished No. 2 in the league in scoring defense. In the offseason Capers and LeBeau committed totally to the zone blitz, hence giving birth to the nickname Blitz-burgh Steelers. The Steelers also added outside linebacker Kevin Greene and inside linebacker Chad Brown, upgrading their front seven." -- https://www.si.com/more-sports/2011/01/31/zone-blitz

You can find versions of this story at a number of places on the Google machines. They weren't running a zone blitz scheme. The defense was not good enough. Then they ran it. The defense improved. Then someone decided to go get the players to fully run it. The defense took off. Sure sounds like Capers and Lebeau cooked up a plan and brought it to Cowher who got on board. Not seeing where anyone was gifted an existing "amazing defense just break glass" situation.

Again...I am not concocting this stuff out of thin air. This is the words of the people involved. I am not sure why it is so difficult to understand.

[lipps83]

........Capers and LeBeau committed totally to the zone blitz..........

I am not sure why it is so difficult to understand.

But it wasn't just Dick LeBeau that was responsible for their successes, like everyone likes to pretend.

I put it in bold for you so that you don't miss it again.

[EzraTank]

I wouldn't say Lebeau's defense was impossible to decipher. Brady did it literally every time he played us.

Well when you film all the other teams signals and their walk through ... did he really?

[lipps83]

They weren't running a zone blitz scheme. The defense was not good enough. Then they ran it. The defense improved. Then someone decided to go get the players to fully run it. The defense took off. Sure sounds like Capers and Lebeau cooked up a plan and brought it to Cowher who got on board. Not seeing where anyone was gifted an existing "amazing defense just break glass" situation.

I am going to try to simplify my stance on this as best that I can for you.

Bill Cowher wanted an aggressive defense. That is why he brought the guys in that he did. It wasn't just LeBeau that created Blitzburgh, you proved that in your own post, which is what I have been saying all along.

Cowher, Capers and LeBeau created it. Cowher maintained it after they left.

The first time, LeBeau just took over what they had already put together. He alone was not responsible for their success.

LeBeau couldn't do it on his own.

His 2nd tenure with the Bengals proved that.

When he came back, Cowher had already put together the talent for it to be successful (LeBeau was 7 years removed), since he was still running a variance of it with all the coordinators that had come through there after LeBeau had departed.

And it was successful, amazingly so.

LeBeau came back and it was a match made in Heaven, literally.

But on his own, he was just an average defensive coordinator.

That is what I have been saying.

[Mojouw]

I am going to try to simplify my stance on this as best that I can for you.

Bill Cowher wanted an aggressive defense. That is why he brought the guys in that he did. It wasn't just LeBeau that created Blitzburgh, you proved that in your own post, which is what I have been saying all along.

Cowher, Capers and LeBeau created it. Cowher maintained it after they left.

The first time, LeBeau just took over what they had already put together. He alone was not responsible for their success.

LeBeau couldn't do it on his own.

His 2nd tenure with the Bengals proved that.

When he came back, Cowher had already put together the talent for it to be successful (LeBeau was 7 years removed), since he was still running a variance of it with all the coordinators that had come through there after LeBeau had departed.

And it was successful, amazingly so.

LeBeau came back and it was a match made in Heaven, literally.

But on his own, he was just an average defensive coordinator.

That is what I have been saying.

Again...using your logic...Noll built that defense. Because the players were already there before Cowher arrived. Then Capers and Lebeau with authorization from Cowher got Brown drafted and Greene signed as a FA. The only other player that Cowher brought in was Darren Perry, if we assume Perry was a Cowher draft pick. The rest of that entire defensive core was already there when Cowher arrived.

This whole "Bill Cowher saved the world" revision to history is just annoying. I mean all this information is out there. It isn't like we are trying to figure out some archaeological puzzle in a language we can't read.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Again...using your logic...Noll built that defense. Because the players were already there before Cowher arrived. Then Capers and Lebeau with authorization from Cowher got Brown drafted and Greene signed as a FA. The only other player that Cowher brought in was Darren Perry, if we assume Perry was a Cowher draft pick. The rest of that entire defensive core was already there when Cowher arrived.

This whole "Bill Cowher saved the world" revision to history is just annoying. I mean all this information is out there. It isn't like we are trying to figure out some archaeological puzzle in a language we can't read.

Cowher could only win with Chuck Noll's players.

Imagine if we had message boards in 1991?

[lipps83]

Again...using your logic...Noll built that defense. Because the players were already there before Cowher arrived. Then Capers and Lebeau with authorization from Cowher got Brown drafted and Greene signed as a FA. The only other player that Cowher brought in was Darren Perry, if we assume Perry was a Cowher draft pick. The rest of that entire defensive core was already there when Cowher arrived.

This whole "Bill Cowher saved the world" revision to history is just annoying. I mean all this information is out there. It isn't like we are trying to figure out some archaeological puzzle in a language we can't read.

Again, never said it was all Bill Cowher.

I digress. Dick LeBeau's inability to duplicate his success in Cincinnati after 7 years of trying is an illusion.

Bill Cowher had zilch to do with the success of the Pittsburgh Steelers defense between 1992 and 2006.

Can we finally agree?

[lipps83]

No one could have ever imagined that what Cowher and Capers had conjured up would become the blueprint for a defense that many consider the gold standard in the NFL.

Cowher brought what he had from Kansas City under coach Marty Schottenheimer and Capers’ brought what he had as the New Orleans defensive backs coach under Jim Mora. (“playoffs!”—couldn’t resist that!)


Cowher and his defensive staff consisting of Capers, defensive backs coach Dick Le Beau and linebackers coach Marvin Lewis, created a three-lineman, four-linebacker system that today remains one of the most effective schemes in NFL.


On a plane flight home from a game, Le Beau, Capers, and Cowher brainstormed on how to improve Buddy Ryan's 46 defense and the zone-blitz defense was born.....

Pulling up old articles is so weird.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...d-dick-le-beau

[Mojouw]

Cowher could only win with Chuck Noll's players.

Imagine if we had message boards in 1991?

Oh.....lord....that would've been wild! I imagine there is something in the dusty recesses of very early online history. Some eyeball bleeding green text on a black screen where people with usenet accounts are screaming at each other about Chuck Noll and how the cold-hearted Rooney's forced him out.

[Mojouw]

Pulling up old articles is so weird.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...d-dick-le-beau

Might want to find a better article with like sources and stuff.

The author first claims that: "On a plane flight home from a game, Le Beau, Capers, and Cowher brainstormed on how to improve Buddy Ryan's 46 defense and the zone-blitz defense was born." and later that "Le Beau is credited with inventing the "Fire Zone" or "zone blitz" defense, which employs unpredictable pass rushes and pass coverage from various players." and still later "But the origin of the “zone –blitz did not start in Pittsburgh during the 90’s." and then later still "t was in the mid-1980s under Wyche that LeBeau first hatched the zone blitz on unsuspecting offenses.The Fire Zone was LeBeau's chaotic response to the pass-happy West Coast offense, but it hasn't done quite enough to win him a Super Bowl."

To sum up, in the same article, the author claims the defense was invented by a variety of people on at least 3 different occasions.

Then there is this gem: "Back then the Steelers were in the AFC Central Division and faced stiff challenges with then division opponent Houston Oilers lead by QB Warren Moon and RB Earl Campbell." that's gonna be kinda hard to have be true because Moon wasn't starting for the Oilers until 1984 and six games into that season, Campbell was a Saint.

Another really stellar sentence: "The perfect example is strong safety Troy Polamalu who’s incredible, yet explosive quickness and innate football instincts became the prototype to LeBeau’s David Fulcher." how can Polamalu be the "protoype" for a player who retired a decade before Polamalu was drafted?

I'm gonna guess that this is riddled with inaccuracies and just flat-out wrong information. I mean spending 10 minutes with it and multiple dumb-ass stuff is easy to spot. Gonna guess there is more.

[Mojouw]

And this was in one of your opening posts:

Bill Cowher built those Steelers defenses, not Dick LeBeau. They ran Bill Cowhers defense.

​Now, you're claiming you never said it?

You also said that the team had a #1 defense before Lebeau arrived? Well....no. They didn't. Not either time unless we are defining it differently

For 1991: https://www.pro-football-reference.c...s/pit/1991.htm

Team Stats and Rankings

			Tot Yds & TO					Passing							Rushing					Penalties
Player	PF	Yds	Ply	Y/P	TO	FL	1stD	Cmp	Att	Yds	TD	Int	NY/A	1stD	Att	Yds	TD	Y/A	1stD	Pen	Yds	1stPy
Lg Rank Defense	22	22			17	21	26		23	26	21	7	21		21	11	18	3

And in 2003: https://www.pro-football-reference.c...s/pit/2003.htm
Team Stats and Rankings

			Tot Yds & TO					Passing							Rushing					Penalties						Average Drive
Player	PF	Yds	Ply	Y/P	TO	FL	1stD	Cmp	Att	Yds	TD	Int	NY/A	1stD	Att	Yds	TD	Y/A	1stD	Pen	Yds	1stPy	#Dr	Sc%	TO%	Start	Time	Plays	Yds	Pts
Lg Rank Defense	15	9			20	19	5		6	11	16	20	18		15	12	20	10						23	22	1

You had a hot take and it seems that the cold reality of facts doesn't back it up.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Come on fellas, do we really need to relive the 90's to make a point.

Just be like Dionte Johnson and "drop it".

[Craic]

Yeah,

My only point here was that LeBeau's defense would not be good with this team because it was very dependent on talent. What I didn't say, and I should have because there's a round 2 to this, is that teams figured out his defense and were throwing up and down the field on the Steelers until we gained even better talent to stop it.

That's not to say the Zone Blitz/Fire Blitz scheme was bad or wrong or sucked. It's to say that like all other schemes, it had its season of being dominant (figurative, not literal NFL seasons) and then the game evolved beyond it. That's not to say the scheme is dead. It'll evolve and we'll see a different rendition, much like the pure West-Coast offense ran by the Bengals in '69 under an OC named Bill Walsh evolved in San Francisco, and then evolved again over the last forty or so years.

[lipps83]

And this was in one of your opening posts:

Bill Cowher built those Steelers defenses, not Dick LeBeau. They ran Bill Cowhers defense.

​Now, you're claiming you never said it?

He wanted the Steelers to have an aggressive defense to compliment a smashmouth offense (like 70's Steelers, Bears, Giants and other teams back in the day). He brought them in and they did just that. That is what they were brought in to do. He did not draw it up for them and say here, but he did have input on it. To imagine he had nothing whatsoever to do with it is asinine. LeBeau was not the sole creator of it, Capers, Cowher and himself all had a hand in it and probably a couple other coordinators as well. Very rarely do I ever see Capers mentioned when it is brought up, and that bothers me because the other contributions are in a way discredited.

He maintained it in some form after Capers and Lebeau both left. Lebeau was not responsible for the Steelers defense at all once he left after 96.

I probably could have used a better way of putting it originally, I was in the tank but that is really not an excuse. I should have just worded it better.

However, that was never my initial point about Lebeau. My point was always that on his own Lebeau was not able to duplicate success with his scheme alone. His success with the Steelers was a collective effort. On his own he was an average coordinator.

You ignore that and are only focusing on one thing I said, the minor thing.

You also said that the team had a #1 defense before Lebeau arrived? Well....no. They didn't. Not either time unless we are defining it differently

You misread something that I wrote. I clearly mentioned Tim Lewis had the #1 total defense in 2001 before Lebeau returned just a couple of years later in 2004.

You had a hot take and it seems that the cold reality of facts doesn't back it up.

I will absolutely admit that I should have worded my mentions of Cowher differently when I originally brought that up. However, you also seem to like to cherry pick arguments or use ad hominem attacks (like my saying he was a terrible coach, completely ignoring where I said in post #20).

Yeah. LeBeau was an amazing coach and an even more amazing human being, but his scheme I don't think was that great. It looked great when it had amazing talent, but when Troy was out it was average. A scheme dependent on one exceptional player to properly function, is not a good scheme.

That post I think eventually degraded into what this became because that is where I started to bring up his times with the Bengals, which were not so great (9 years out of 12 at the bottom of the league).

I will concede both recent points to you, however. Cowher had zero to do with the defense. The defense also was horrible before Lebeau came back in 2004, (we can ignore the 1 ranking in 2001, 7 in 2002 and 9 ranking in 2003).

Those were not my initial argument anyway, which is that his scheme was not that great because it could not be maintained at even an average level without top talent (see, again for the 50th time, his years with the Bengals).

Let's talk about his years with the Bengals now, which was my original point that he could not do it by himself. If he couldn't do it by himself in 7 years with the Bengals, there is no way he did it by himself in 4 years with the Steelers.

[polamalubeast]

[Mojouw]

Notice how all these Twitter and Insta rants/posts from former players (well to be fair...out of context quotes from random radio interviews where they force the issue) NEVER talk about actual "football stuff"?

Never discuss alignment, technique, formation, game-plan, individual match-ups, etc. It is just that if "now" was as "tough/physical/mean/tried as hard/cared as much" as "then" everything would be groovy.

Then, if any NON-Player, ever criticizes a specific player or former player it is all "the NFL is really hard", "it takes 11 guys", or "ultimate team game", or this really cool one "there's a lot going on that you can't understand".

Weird.

[lipps83]

Notice how all these Twitter and Insta rants/posts from former players (well to be fair...out of context quotes from random radio interviews where they force the issue) NEVER talk about actual "football stuff"?

Never discuss alignment, technique, formation, game-plan, individual match-ups, etc. It is just that if "now" was as "tough/physical/mean/tried as hard/cared as much" as "then" everything would be groovy.

Then, if any NON-Player, ever criticizes a specific player or former player it is all "the NFL is really hard", "it takes 11 guys", or "ultimate team game", or this really cool one "there's a lot going on that you can't understand".

Weird.

For real dude?

Love ya.

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I would hate to look out my window right now and see your head floating bye.

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Did you spend all day yesterday writing that?

[fansince'76]

Except "being physical" gets you flagged and fined now...

[polamalubeast]

Except "being physical" gets you flagged and fined now...

You can be physical in the trenches and not be soft against the run....Just in the last game against the ravens,the ravens won this game mostly because they were way more physical than the steelers on both side of the ball, despite having no passing game threat for almost half the game....I know Mitch's interceptions didn't help but the other big factor was because the ravens had over 200 rushing yards against the steelers once again....it's tough to overcome

[Born2Steel]

You can be physical in the trenches and not be soft against the run....Just in the last game against the ravens,the ravens won this game mostly because they were way more physical than the steelers on both side of the ball, despite having no passing game threat for almost half the game....I know Mitch's interceptions didn't help but the other big factor was because the ravens had over 200 rushing yards against the steelers once again....it's tough to overcome

Losing your starting QB, throwing 3 redzone INTs, letting a FG attempt get blocked, allowing nearly 200 yards rushing by the other team, all these things are a great recipe for losing football games. And you can’t really put any of that on coaching. That is all squarely on the players. That game could have still been some miracle win at the end. Just a bazaar game.

[Mojouw]

So they were physical against the Colts and Falcons but suddenly got Charmin soft against the Ravens?

Ogunjobi and Jack are playing hurt. Leal is a rookie. Wormsley tore an ACL in game. Adams got pushed around. Father Time has reaped Alualu’s NFL soul. Bush is dumb and soft. No denying that. Heyward has admitted he gambled on several plays and got beat.

Ravens O LINE was healthier and more talented than Heyward and the also rans.

No need to make it harder than that.

[polamalubeast]

Losing your starting QB, throwing 3 redzone INTs, letting a FG attempt get blocked, allowing nearly 200 yards rushing by the other team, all these things are a great recipe for losing football games. And you can’t really put any of that on coaching. That is all squarely on the players. That game could have still been some miracle win at the end. Just a bazaar game.

The Ravens were with their 3rd QB for almost half the game and they had no threat with their passing game

But the steelers couldn't stop the run, which was very embarrassing.....The Ravens have been more physical

And in this case, I did not say that it was the fault of the coaching staff

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So they were physical against the Colts and Falcons but suddenly got Charmin soft against the Ravens?

Ogunjobi and Jack are playing hurt. Leal is a rookie. Wormsley tore an ACL in game. Adams got pushed around. Father Time has reaped Alualu’s NFL soul. Bush is dumb and soft. No denying that. Heyward has admitted he gambled on several plays and got beat.

Ravens O LINE was healthier and more talented than Heyward and the also rans.

No need to make it harder than that.

In the second half vs Falcons,the Falcons had over 100 rushing yards.It was bad too

The steelers will finish the season with 4 very good running game,so we will see how the steelers will perform in his games

[Mojouw]

The Ravens were with their 3rd QB for almost half the game and they had no threat with their passing game

But the steelers couldn't stop the run, which was very embarrassing.....The Ravens have been more physical

And in this case, I did not say that it was the fault of the coaching staff

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In the second half vs Falcons,the Falcons had over 100 rushing yards.It was bad too

The steelers will finish the season with 4 very good running game,so we will see how the steelers will perform in his games

That’s my point. They’re not soft. They’re just not very good. They have one mediocre ILB, the rest shouldn’t be playing. They’ve got one amazing DL and a bunch of tile players pressed into full time slots. Ogunjobi can be dominant but he hasn’t been healthy for weeks now.

There’s no psychological secret sauce. They’re not a talented enough group up the middle. Jack starts on a good or better NFL defense. But Adams, Alualu, Bush, and Spillane don’t. They all play big roles on rushing downs.

They can have all the want to in the world but they’re simply not good enough against a good offensive line.

[polamalubeast]

That’s my point. They’re not soft. They’re just not very good. They have one mediocre ILB, the rest shouldn’t be playing. They’ve got one amazing DL and a bunch of tile players pressed into full time slots. Ogunjobi can be dominant but he hasn’t been healthy for weeks now.

There’s no psychological secret sauce. They’re not a talented enough group up the middle. Jack starts on a good or better NFL defense. But Adams, Alualu, Bush, and Spillane don’t. They all play big roles on rushing downs.

They can have all the want to in the world but they’re simply not good enough against a good offensive line.

Yeah, I agree...It's just we said it in a different way because for me, if you want to be good against the run and in the trenches, you have to be physical but we meant the same thing