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Thread: Kenny Pickett APPRECIATION Thread

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    Kenny Pickett APPRECIATION Thread

    Some reasons to be hopeful about Kenny:

    -according to PFF (take that as you will), Kenny is the highest-rated QB versus pressure

    -in completion-percentage “over expected” Kenny is second best. (Geno, Kenny, Mahomes, Burrow, Josh Allen)

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    Re: Kenny Pickett APPRECIATION Thread

    A much-needed thread. Thank you!

    Here's an article with a breakdown on Kenny being the highest rated QB versus pressure: https://steelersdepot.com/2022/10/ke...ootball-focus/

    I love the way he never looks rattled. It never looks like he is overwhelmed or lost. That means a lot with a rookie. He stands in there and delivers the ball under pressure.

    He has a lot to learn and there are going to be more growing pains, but I really like much of what I see so far when it comes to projecting how much better he can get.

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    Re: Kenny Pickett APPRECIATION Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    Some reasons to be hopeful about Kenny:

    -according to PFF (take that as you will), Kenny is the highest-rated QB versus pressure

    -in completion-percentage “over expected” Kenny is second best. (Geno, Kenny, Mahomes, Burrow, Josh Allen)
    classic example of taking stats out of context tho...

    its not all that hard to throw a dink or dunk pass

    when the average pass play of the team is 5 yards what are we really saying ya know (besides Canada's play calling sucks )

    but he is pretty good at throwing to the opponent too lets not forget that...
    Kenny Pickett is who I though he was .. Eagles problem now

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    Re: Kenny Pickett APPRECIATION Thread

    Let’s see, last season we our HOF QB sucked for 3 quarters every game, then he took over the play calling and he was lights out scoring (the majority of the point for the entire season). But the issue this season (with the same OC) is our rookie QB? Do you read what you are typing? Is there any thought behind what you say, other than the QB you wanted to be drafted was not KP? We get it, you hate KP, but blaming him week in and week out for the exact issues we had last season with this OC is getting tiresome honestly. The only issue I see with KP is he doesn’t have the knowledge to call the plays for himself in the 4th quarter like Ben did.

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    Re: Kenny Pickett APPRECIATION Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Rotorhead View Post
    Let’s see, last season we our HOF QB sucked for 3 quarters every game, then he took over the play calling and he was lights out scoring (the majority of the point for the entire season). But the issue this season (with the same OC) is our rookie QB? Do you read what you are typing? Is there any thought behind what you say, other than the QB you wanted to be drafted was not KP? We get it, you hate KP, but blaming him week in and week out for the exact issues we had last season with this OC is getting tiresome honestly. The only issue I see with KP is he doesn’t have the knowledge to call the plays for himself in the 4th quarter like Ben did.
    Agreed. KP was running for his life today. I'm willing to give him a season to get aclimated to the NFL before I condem him.

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    Re: Kenny Pickett APPRECIATION Thread

    Like I said in the gameday thread, imagine having a very bad team with piss poor coaching and the biggest thing you can bitch about is the rookie quarterback.

    It proves that Ben and even Trubisky was not the issue with the offense. Matt Canada is an absolute shit coordinator who doesn't belong in the NFL.

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    Re: Kenny Pickett APPRECIATION Thread

    It is just so murky right now. Hard to see anything clearly.

    There are massive talent deficiencies along the entire offensive line that doom plays to failure before they even start.
    There is a massive problem with the OC that diminishes the talent of every player on the roster.
    And there are glimmers of hope with KP play that shine through those issues.
    But there are several blinking warning signs as well that he might have some significant limitations in his game.

    What is what for the long term? Just too hard to tell when so much is broken at the same time.

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    Re: Kenny Pickett APPRECIATION Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    It is just so murky right now. Hard to see anything clearly.

    There are massive talent deficiencies along the entire offensive line that doom plays to failure before they even start.
    There is a massive problem with the OC that diminishes the talent of every player on the roster.
    And there are glimmers of hope with KP play that shine through those issues.
    But there are several blinking warning signs as well that he might have some significant limitations in his game.

    What is what for the long term? Just too hard to tell when so much is broken at the same time.
    KP's known limitations right now are being a rookie and not yet having the savvy to call his own plays to supercede Canada's garbage like Ben could to pull games out. He stopped forcing balls and caught Philadelphia in a DPI. The Kid isn't going anywhere for a while.

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    Re: Kenny Pickett APPRECIATION Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by steelcityboyz View Post
    Agreed. KP was running for his life today. I'm willing to give him a season to get aclimated to the NFL before I condem him.
    What sucks most is that even though he is playing, can we really evaluate him honestly with this complete garbage play calling? We can see he is accurate, we have zero idea about his deep ball, we have zero idea about him throwing over the middle. We can see he has good pocket awareness and is mobile enough to get out. If Crapnada is not gone after the bye, I will be the biggest “Fire Tomlin” person on this board.

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    Re: Kenny Pickett APPRECIATION Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Rotorhead View Post
    What sucks most is that even though he is playing, can we really evaluate him honestly with this complete garbage play calling? We can see he is accurate, we have zero idea about his deep ball, we have zero idea about him throwing over the middle. We can see he has good pocket awareness and is mobile enough to get out. If Crapnada is not gone after the bye, I will be the biggest “Fire Tomlin” person on this board.
    Great points. We have no real idea about KP because the offense he is toiling away in is just not an NFL offense.

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    Kenny Pickett APPRECIATION Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    It is just so murky right now. Hard to see anything clearly.

    There are massive talent deficiencies along the entire offensive line that doom plays to failure before they even start.
    There is a massive problem with the OC that diminishes the talent of every player on the roster.
    And there are glimmers of hope with KP play that shine through those issues.
    But there are several blinking warning signs as well that he might have some significant limitations in his game.

    What is what for the long term? Just too hard to tell when so much is broken at the same time.
    Murky? It’s crystal clear…more than ever today. The O-Line is not NFL 2nd string caliber. The OC is beyond horrendous and may not qualify as a college coordinator at this point. The defense is stuck in the 90s playing a defensive scheme that is no longer relevant. They have a head coach that refuses to change what needs to be changed and his stubbornness is eating him from the inside. It’s that simple…you don’t need to know assignments, watch extra film, etc…it’s clear as a sunny blue sky,

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

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    Re: Kenny Pickett APPRECIATION Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Edman View Post
    KP's known limitations right now are being a rookie and not yet having the savvy to call his own plays to supercede Canada's garbage like Ben could to pull games out. He stopped forcing balls and caught Philadelphia in a DPI. The Kid isn't going anywhere for a while.
    Never said he was going anywhere.

    He has 3 or so throws per game that he just flat out throws away Trubisky style. He then has about another 3 that are miscommunication stuff. He also has about 3 that are just wounded ducks that you can't uncork in the NFL.

    It is challenging to determine if those are rookie issues, just who Pickett is, or if Canada is behind some of it.

    Really tough to sort out. I can see a version of KP that is a pretty good NFL QB. I can also see a version of him that is Ryan Fitzpatrick.

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    Re: Kenny Pickett APPRECIATION Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
    Murky? It’s crystal clear…more than ever today. The O-Line is not NFL 2nd string caliber. The OC is beyond horrendous and may not qualify as a college coordinator at this point. The defense is stuck in the 90s playing a defensive scheme that is no longer relevant. It’s that simple…you don’t need to know assignments, watch extra film,, etc…it’s clear as day.
    It's been that way for years. Only difference was Ben being Ben and pulling out wins.


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    Re: Kenny Pickett APPRECIATION Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    It is just so murky right now. Hard to see anything clearly.

    There are massive talent deficiencies along the entire offensive line that doom plays to failure before they even start.
    There is a massive problem with the OC that diminishes the talent of every player on the roster.
    And there are glimmers of hope with KP play that shine through those issues.
    But there are several blinking warning signs as well that he might have some significant limitations in his game.

    What is what for the long term? Just too hard to tell when so much is broken at the same time.
    Lol, I basically said the exact same thing, hopefully we can Crapnada today and at least see if we can put together a below average gameplan to see what we have at QB before the end of the season.

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    Re: Kenny Pickett APPRECIATION Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Never said he was going anywhere.

    He has 3 or so throws per game that he just flat out throws away Trubisky style. He then has about another 3 that are miscommunication stuff. He also has about 3 that are just wounded ducks that you can't uncork in the NFL.

    It is challenging to determine if those are rookie issues, just who Pickett is, or if Canada is behind some of it.

    Really tough to sort out. I can see a version of KP that is a pretty good NFL QB. I can also see a version of him that is Ryan Fitzpatrick.
    Veteran QBs do the same…

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

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    Re: Kenny Pickett APPRECIATION Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
    Murky? It’s crystal clear…more than ever today. The O-Line is not NFL 2nd string caliber. The OC is beyond horrendous and may not qualify as a college coordinator at this point. The defense is stuck in the 90s playing a defensive scheme that is no longer relevant. It’s that simple…you don’t need to know assignments, watch extra film,, etc…it’s clear as day.
    Maybe?

    But that doesn't change the fact that KP makes 6 or so throws per game that are really bad. The coaches aren't out there throwing the ball.

    I was not able to watch the second half, but I saw every play in the first half and there were at least 2 times where KP had time and space and still threw a poor ball. He also, just based on TV broadcast angles, missed several 2nd and 3rd options that were open on plays that either went for an incompletion or a sack.

    Certainly some of that - or maybe all of it - is rookie stuff. Some of it is being trapped in a vortex of suck. What is worrying is that some of it could be Pickett and the significant number of pre-draft evaluations that indicated he would struggle in the NFL and was a 3rd round back-up QB prospect at best. We need to remember that level of evaluation was the majority opinion heading into the draft.

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    Re: Kenny Pickett APPRECIATION Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
    Murky? It’s crystal clear…more than ever today. The O-Line is not NFL 2nd string caliber. The OC is beyond horrendous and may not qualify as a college coordinator at this point. The defense is stuck in the 90s playing a defensive scheme that is no longer relevant. They have a head coach that refuses to change what needs to be changed and his stubbornness is eating him from the inside. It’s that simple…you don’t need to know assignments, watch extra film, etc…it’s clear as a sunny blue sky,
    I think Mojouw was saying it is murky with what we have as a QB. With all the other issues, can we even figure out what we have in KP as a QB?

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    Re: Kenny Pickett APPRECIATION Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
    Veteran QBs do the same…
    Certainly some do. Some don't.

    That's why I said it is really hard to tell just where KP is at.

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    Re: Kenny Pickett APPRECIATION Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Rotorhead View Post
    What sucks most is that even though he is playing, can we really evaluate him honestly with this complete garbage play calling? We can see he is accurate, we have zero idea about his deep ball, we have zero idea about him throwing over the middle. We can see he has good pocket awareness and is mobile enough to get out. If Crapnada is not gone after the bye, I will be the biggest “Fire Tomlin” person on this board.
    Agree with this 100%. The only throws we've seen over the middle have been stop routes. He did have a couple of really good throws to static receivers in the middle of the field today...both to Muuth and to Claypool but we've yet to see any slants or crossing patterns AT ALL. Those plays don't seem to exist at all in Canada's offense...so we have no idea how is with those types of timing routes and seeing the field. I can't put those things on him yet because we haven't seen them. Some people have questioned his arm strength, I have seen nothing at this point that makes me question his arm. Is he Patrick Mahomes? no, but I've seen him let some good ones rip on some some deep stop routes...we really haven't seen him throw a long ball yet....a couple of deeper routes today on 3rd and short(???) but there was no issue with his arm on those throws.. Being in Canada's system is not doing this kid any favors.

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    Re: Kenny Pickett APPRECIATION Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Maybe?

    But that doesn't change the fact that KP makes 6 or so throws per game that are really bad. The coaches aren't out there throwing the ball.

    I was not able to watch the second half, but I saw every play in the first half and there were at least 2 times where KP had time and space and still threw a poor ball. He also, just based on TV broadcast angles, missed several 2nd and 3rd options that were open on plays that either went for an incompletion or a sack.

    Certainly some of that - or maybe all of it - is rookie stuff. Some of it is being trapped in a vortex of suck. What is worrying is that some of it could be Pickett and the significant number of pre-draft evaluations that indicated he would struggle in the NFL and was a 3rd round back-up QB prospect at best. We need to remember that level of evaluation was the majority opinion heading into the draft.
    That can be said about a lot of Hall of Fame QBs too. Not every pass is ever perfect.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

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    Re: Kenny Pickett APPRECIATION Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Rotorhead View Post
    I think Mojouw was saying it is murky with what we have as a QB. With all the other issues, can we even figure out what we have in KP as a QB?
    Yeah. I think we posted about the same idea.

    I was trying to go with the general idea of the thread. Like I am NOT trying to bask KP. I am trying to understand what he "is".

    Going into the draft there was maybe a higher variance in opinion on his evaluation from reputable draft sources than I remember on a QB prospect in a few years. I saw as high as "just draft him, play him day one, and watch him look like Burrow" to as low as "After you regret drafting him as a failed starter you may have a really good back-up QB". That is a big range.

    And I am having a hard time seeing where KP might be trending on that spectrum. Because everything else is also on fire and garbage on that side of the ball. I can not tell what is QB and what is a cascade of other failures.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
    That can be said about a lot of Hall of Fame QBs too. Not every pass is ever perfect.
    I am being extra unclear today. Apologies.

    This is not a series of attempts to slam Pickett or say he isn't going to be great.

    I am just struggling to see what is part of his play (good and bad) and what is not his responsibility because everything around him is terrible right now. There are many things that could be worrying about Pickett's game that seem to tie into the worst of his pre-draft evaluations. But it is also possible that all of those are from Canada, the bad OL, and the non-existent run game.

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    Re: Kenny Pickett APPRECIATION Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Yeah. I think we posted about the same idea.

    I was trying to go with the general idea of the thread. Like I am NOT trying to bask KP. I am trying to understand what he "is".

    Going into the draft there was maybe a higher variance in opinion on his evaluation from reputable draft sources than I remember on a QB prospect in a few years. I saw as high as "just draft him, play him day one, and watch him look like Burrow" to as low as "After you regret drafting him as a failed starter you may have a really good back-up QB". That is a big range.

    And I am having a hard time seeing where KP might be trending on that spectrum. Because everything else is also on fire and garbage on that side of the ball. I can not tell what is QB and what is a cascade of other failures.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I am being extra unclear today. Apologies.

    This is not a series of attempts to slam Pickett or say he isn't going to be great.

    I am just struggling to see what is part of his play (good and bad) and what is not his responsibility because everything around him is terrible right now. There are many things that could be worrying about Pickett's game that seem to tie into the worst of his pre-draft evaluations. But it is also possible that all of those are from Canada, the bad OL, and the non-existent run game.
    I got you now…I will agree with that. There’s so much bad, it’s hard to tell what is potentially good.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

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    Re: Kenny Pickett APPRECIATION Thread

    I’m willing to bet his deep ball and passes over the middle are accurate too, just based on his medium range accuracy and the couple great passes to PF over the middle. He just needs help with a competent game plan and a better o line. The one thing they can fix now is replacing the OC - they should do it as soon as they have someone else lined up - the bye is the perfect time

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    Re: Kenny Pickett APPRECIATION Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Yeah. I think we posted about the same idea.

    I was trying to go with the general idea of the thread. Like I am NOT trying to bask KP. I am trying to understand what he "is".

    Going into the draft there was maybe a higher variance in opinion on his evaluation from reputable draft sources than I remember on a QB prospect in a few years. I saw as high as "just draft him, play him day one, and watch him look like Burrow" to as low as "After you regret drafting him as a failed starter you may have a really good back-up QB". That is a big range.

    And I am having a hard time seeing where KP might be trending on that spectrum. Because everything else is also on fire and garbage on that side of the ball. I can not tell what is QB and what is a cascade of other failures.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I am being extra unclear today. Apologies.

    This is not a series of attempts to slam Pickett or say he isn't going to be great.

    I am just struggling to see what is part of his play (good and bad) and what is not his responsibility because everything around him is terrible right now. There are many things that could be worrying about Pickett's game that seem to tie into the worst of his pre-draft evaluations. But it is also possible that all of those are from Canada, the bad OL, and the non-existent run game.

    Some things you can look at is number of receivers targeted and with multiple catches. Spreading the ball around more shows growth within the offense. Also, does he change plays or protections presnap? Shows learning to recognize defensive alignment at the NFL level. Then there are in-game adjustment. This is harder to determine and usually involves watching all 22 replay.

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    Re: Kenny Pickett APPRECIATION Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Yeah. I think we posted about the same idea.

    I was trying to go with the general idea of the thread. Like I am NOT trying to bask KP. I am trying to understand what he "is".

    Going into the draft there was maybe a higher variance in opinion on his evaluation from reputable draft sources than I remember on a QB prospect in a few years. I saw as high as "just draft him, play him day one, and watch him look like Burrow" to as low as "After you regret drafting him as a failed starter you may have a really good back-up QB". That is a big range.

    And I am having a hard time seeing where KP might be trending on that spectrum. Because everything else is also on fire and garbage on that side of the ball. I can not tell what is QB and what is a cascade of other failures.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I am being extra unclear today. Apologies.

    This is not a series of attempts to slam Pickett or say he isn't going to be great.

    I am just struggling to see what is part of his play (good and bad) and what is not his responsibility because everything around him is terrible right now. There are many things that could be worrying about Pickett's game that seem to tie into the worst of his pre-draft evaluations. But it is also possible that all of those are from Canada, the bad OL, and the non-existent run game.
    He is a rookie on a complete garbage team.
    Take the good with the bad and hope this garbage team doesn't ruin his career. I honestly think there isn't a single starting nfl qb that would good on this team right now.


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    Re: Kenny Pickett APPRECIATION Thread

    Kenny this week went 25 of 38 with 1 INT. He had 7 receivers with multiple catches. He ran the ball 7 times for 37 more yards.

    In 4 starts and 1 half Kenny has 962 yards(67.9%), Avg 6.1yards, 2TDs/8INTs(3INTs in the 1 half vs the Jets), 19 rushes for 98yards.

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    Re: Kenny Pickett APPRECIATION Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach1 View Post
    He is a rookie on a complete garbage team.
    Take the good with the bad and hope this garbage team doesn't ruin his career. I honestly think there isn't a single starting nfl qb that would good on this team right now.
    I was just thinking this about an hour ago, this offense gameplan would make Mahomes look terrible.

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    Re: Kenny Pickett APPRECIATION Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Born2Steel View Post
    Kenny this week went 25 of 38 with 1 INT. He had 7 receivers with multiple catches. He ran the ball 7 times for 37 more yards.

    In 4 starts and 1 half Kenny has 962 yards(67.9%), Avg 6.1yards, 2TDs/8INTs(3INTs in the 1 half vs the Jets), 19 rushes for 98yards.
    Completion Percentage looks good.
    Avg yards is bad.
    TD/INT ratio is horrible
    Rushing is a bonus.

    Right now....that stat line says Alex Smith with a lot more INTs.

    So, do you think it is a KP problem or a team around him problem?

    I suspect the latter and fear the former.

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    Re: Kenny Pickett APPRECIATION Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Completion Percentage looks good.
    Avg yards is bad.
    TD/INT ratio is horrible
    Rushing is a bonus.

    Right now....that stat line says Alex Smith with a lot more INTs.

    So, do you think it is a KP problem or a team around him problem?

    I suspect the latter and fear the former.
    Well we know Avg yards is a Crapnada issue.
    TD/INT is a rookie issue trying to force it mostly IMO.

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    Re: Kenny Pickett APPRECIATION Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Completion Percentage looks good.
    Avg yards is bad.
    TD/INT ratio is horrible
    Rushing is a bonus.

    Right now....that stat line says Alex Smith with a lot more INTs.

    So, do you think it is a KP problem or a team around him problem?

    I suspect the latter and fear the former.
    I see the INTs as multiple area issue. Of the 8, he got 3 vs the Jets and 3 vs the Dolphins. I did not see the Dolphins game. Vs the Jets he had 1 on the hail mary and 1 trying to throw the ball away. Honestly, I call 6 INTs where he was actually trying to complete a football throw. Over 4 games that's not terrible for a rookie.

    The issues: A very real issue is trying to make something out of nothing, as well as trying to make something out of frustration. I can see both of these issues with KP's game. He's a rookie so the former is expected from time to time. The latter he communicated plainly when he said "it's insane to keep doing the same thing and expecting something different". The rook is young but experienced as a QB. He knows some things that have worked for him in the past. I don't necessarily blame him for doing those things now in trying to manufacture some offensive success. How much of that also equals the very thing that seems to confuse the rest of the offense at times? I don't know the answer. When Ben scrambles he's looking to throw. When KP scrambles it may be pass or run. As a WR do you block or try to get open? These things are part of what I am thinking of when I use the term 'growing pains'.

    The issue of not getting TDs and settling for FGs or punts. This is due to just a poorly schemed offense. The weapons are there. The OL is sufficient enough to be an efficient offense. The run game should be better, much better than it is. Simply put, IMO, just going with pre-decided plays rather than using the ebb and flow of the game and calling situational football plays. I believe this very thing is why you would see Ben looking at the sideline, palms up, shaking his head last season. Designing plays is only a part of being an OC.

    A huge problem this offense is having, and has had for 3 seasons in a row now, is too many penalties. Some of this is also growing pains but this has definitely become a coaching issue. When these penalties continue to happen it's because it's being allowed to continue. What are you doing in meetings and practices to clean up penalties? This aspect of our offensive woes is unacceptable to me most of all.

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