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Thread: Too early to talk draft?

  1. #61
    Senior Member Array title="Dwinsgames has a reputation beyond repute"> Dwinsgames's Avatar

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    Re: Too early to talk draft?

    I worry about "trusting our scouting department" at finding a "generational talent"

    sure we have had some great picks in round 1 but also some meh selections ....

    granted perhaps good players but not what you'd ( or at least I'd) expect from round 1 more like rd 2 kind of guys ... example

    2021 -Najee doesn't look like a 1st rounder ( being outplayed by an UDFA ) don't make excuses just look at results

    2020 no 1st round pick traded it to Miami for Minkah

    2019 traded up and selected Bush not a top 10 player period

    2018 Edmunds 2nd -3rd round quality

    2017 TJ Watt - jackpot ....

    2016 Artie Burns 5th round kinda guy

    2015 Dupree second or third round quality

    2014 Shazier ( bad luck on this one )

    2013 Jarvis Jones round 5-6 results

    2012 Decastro

    2011 Heyward

    2010 Pouncey

    2009 Ziggy Hood solid round 4 kind of pick

    2008 mendenhall can find this kind of RB in round 3-4 all the time



    so 35% ish of worthy round 1 picks .... the others are round 2 or lessor quality IMO (some shouldnt have been selected until day 3)
    Kenny Pickett is who I though he was .. Eagles problem now

  2. #62
    Senior Member Array title="Mojouw has a reputation beyond repute"> Mojouw's Avatar

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    Re: Too early to talk draft?

    Quote Originally Posted by dislocatedday View Post
    True....that is what it really comes down to no matter where our favorite team is picking. I guess if the team feel there is a "generational" type player they can get in the top 3 then we have to trust the team. The Steelers have overall had a really good track record with their first round picks, with just a few duds here and there.
    Assuming they end up with a high draft pick, i really don't think they can mess it up. They might not select my favorite guy, but the available options should ensure a good long term outcome.

    If they stay put, there really isn't a position they have to "force". They can literally take the best player available and once you eliminate QB from the process, usually the first position player off the board is pretty darn good.

    If they want to move down, that is fine as well. The roster could certainly use an infusion of young talent. I really don't have a problem with it. But I do think that you move down to get specific players not to avoid selecting a bust.

    But...imagine this defense with the 2023 version of Sauce Gardner on it instead of Levi Wallace. Or a 2023 version of recently highly drafted OT stabilizing the line for the next decade. Or adding a Chase Young or Micah Parsons (whhoooooo-boy there is another one that MojoUW got wrong! I thought he was overdrafted by half!) caliber player to the defense.

    All that being said...if you can slide from like 3 to 7 and still do that....sure....and if this QB class goes QB heavy...then they have a great chance to drop a few slots and do what DWins is advocating for.

    It will be a fascinating off-season. If they finish as bad as I think they will, they are going to be in the news constantly because they will control the top of the draft. Every team that wants a QB will be talking to them.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    I worry about "trusting our scouting department" at finding a "generational talent"

    sure we have had some great picks in round 1 but also some meh selections ....

    granted perhaps good players but not what you'd ( or at least I'd) expect from round 1 more like rd 2 kind of guys ... example

    2021 -Najee doesn't look like a 1st rounder ( being outplayed by an UDFA ) don't make excuses just look at results

    2020 no 1st round pick traded it to Miami for Minkah

    2019 traded up and selected Bush not a top 10 player period

    2018 Edmunds 2nd -3rd round quality

    2017 TJ Watt - jackpot ....

    2016 Artie Burns 5th round kinda guy

    2015 Dupree second or third round quality

    2014 Shazier ( bad luck on this one )

    2013 Jarvis Jones round 5-6 results

    2012 Decastro

    2011 Heyward

    2010 Pouncey

    2009 Ziggy Hood solid round 4 kind of pick

    2008 mendenhall can find this kind of RB in round 3-4 all the time



    so 35% ish of worthy round 1 picks .... the others are round 2 or lessor quality IMO (some shouldnt have been selected until day 3)
    Not gonna argue facts. But...I think that the ones that really stunk are the ones where the FO "forced" a specific player because it fit a roster need. The 2023 Steelers will have so many needs, they can just take the best player available. When they do that....they are usually very successful.

    It is a new GM in charge infused with some new perspectives. And it is possible there is a shift in philosophy, I hope, back to BPA since the Steelers are no longer trying to fill in around a franchise QB that eats up all the cap and make an annual SB run but to restock the cupboard.

  3. #63
    Senior Member Array title="Born2Steel has a reputation beyond repute"> Born2Steel's Avatar

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    Re: Too early to talk draft?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Assuming they end up with a high draft pick, i really don't think they can mess it up. They might not select my favorite guy, but the available options should ensure a good long term outcome.

    If they stay put, there really isn't a position they have to "force". They can literally take the best player available and once you eliminate QB from the process, usually the first position player off the board is pretty darn good.

    If they want to move down, that is fine as well. The roster could certainly use an infusion of young talent. I really don't have a problem with it. But I do think that you move down to get specific players not to avoid selecting a bust.

    But...imagine this defense with the 2023 version of Sauce Gardner on it instead of Levi Wallace. Or a 2023 version of recently highly drafted OT stabilizing the line for the next decade. Or adding a Chase Young or Micah Parsons (whhoooooo-boy there is another one that MojoUW got wrong! I thought he was overdrafted by half!) caliber player to the defense.

    All that being said...if you can slide from like 3 to 7 and still do that....sure....and if this QB class goes QB heavy...then they have a great chance to drop a few slots and do what DWins is advocating for.

    It will be a fascinating off-season. If they finish as bad as I think they will, they are going to be in the news constantly because they will control the top of the draft. Every team that wants a QB will be talking to them.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Not gonna argue facts. But...I think that the ones that really stunk are the ones where the FO "forced" a specific player because it fit a roster need. The 2023 Steelers will have so many needs, they can just take the best player available. When they do that....they are usually very successful.

    It is a new GM in charge infused with some new perspectives. And it is possible there is a shift in philosophy, I hope, back to BPA since the Steelers are no longer trying to fill in around a franchise QB that eats up all the cap and make an annual SB run but to restock the cupboard.
    I won't rule out selecting QB if the Steelers are picking top5 and one of the top 2 guys falls to us. I don't see it but won't rule it out.

    This year's OL class seems to be very moderate. Personally, I want a true Center and RG. Last draft I really wanted Ed Ingram, who went to the Vikings and pushed Daniels to us in FA. So far this year's OG crush is Jarrett Patterson, ND. Although at only 6'4" and just under 300lbs, OT prospect Pete Skoronski may be a better IOL prospect for the Steelers.

    What are your thoughts on UW's Center Joe Tippman?
    Last edited by Born2Steel; 10-31-2022 at 09:40 AM.

  4. #64
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    Re: Too early to talk draft?

    Steelers were in the market when the QB class wasn’t great. Now they are in the market for OL and the class isn’t great.

    If they can’t trade down, they should take the best QB available.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

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    Senior Member Array title="Mojouw has a reputation beyond repute"> Mojouw's Avatar

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    Re: Too early to talk draft?

    Quote Originally Posted by Born2Steel View Post
    I won't rule out selecting QB if the Steelers are picking top5 and one of the top 2 guys falls to us. I don't see it but won't rule it out.

    This year's OL class seems to be very moderate. Personally, I want a true Center and RG. Last draft I really wanted Ed Ingram, who went to the Vikings and pushed Daniels to us in FA. So far this year's OG crush is Jarrett Patterson, ND.

    What are your thoughts on UW's Center Joe Tippman?
    Hard to say. The Badgers have just played awful. Part of it has been there inability to do their usual run behind the big dominant OL thing against any quality opponents. I mean it got the head coach fired. That being said -- holy cow is he a massive man-child. I think he's still too much of a project to take until a bit later in the draft. But if he can put together all aspects of his game...he could be a dominating interior presence. His athletic traits are seemingly off the charts for a dude his size. I am always in favor of grabbing as many "freaks" as you can and seeing what happens. Tippman is also likely getting better OL instruction now than many of the Steelers current lineman.

  6. #66
    Senior Member Array title="teegre has a reputation beyond repute"> teegre's Avatar

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    Re: Too early to talk draft?

    @Dwins

    I see your point about hitting & missing on the Steelers R1 picks. That said, the Steelers were picking in the 20s for most of those (except for Bush )… where a 40% hit rate is pretty standard. The last time that the Steelers drafted in the top 5… was… holy crap!!! I have no clue.

  7. #67
    Senior Member Array title="Dwinsgames has a reputation beyond repute"> Dwinsgames's Avatar

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    Re: Too early to talk draft?

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    @Dwins

    I see your point about hitting & missing on the Steelers R1 picks. That said, the Steelers were picking in the 20s for most of those (except for Bush )… where a 40% hit rate is pretty standard. The last time that the Steelers drafted in the top 5… was… holy crap!!! I have no clue.
    1989 they drafted 7th over all and took Tim Worley

    1986 they drafted 9th and took John Rienstra

    1971 they drafted 8th and took Frank Lewis

    1970 1st over all Bradshaw

    1969 4th over all Joe Greene

    a whole host of top 5 picks prior and they pretty much all sucked or was sent packing
    Kenny Pickett is who I though he was .. Eagles problem now

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    Re: Too early to talk draft?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    1989 they drafted 7th over all and took Tim Worley

    1986 they drafted 9th and took John Rienstra

    1971 they drafted 8th and took Frank Lewis

    1970 1st over all Bradshaw

    1969 4th over all Joe Greene

    a whole host of top 5 picks prior and they pretty much all sucked or was sent packing
    Rod Woodson in 1987 was in the top 10 too

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    Senior Member Array title="Mojouw has a reputation beyond repute"> Mojouw's Avatar

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    Re: Too early to talk draft?

    Being scared is not a good argument for not doing something.

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    Too early to talk draft?

    Well, we now have an at least top 10 1st rounder (probably top 5 at this point) and 2 high 2nd rounders. If we can hit on all 3 of them we could get an above average OL and a starting CB all wrapped up this off season. That would work wonders for next season as it would upgrade our 2 biggest issues (aside from Crapnada) for this team.

    Edit: so we now don’t need the CB, so LB/DL in the second.

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    Re: Too early to talk draft?

    If the season were to end right now, the Steelers are 4th.

    Detroit, Houston, Carolina land in front of them in that order.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

  12. #72
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    Re: Too early to talk draft?

    Texans are definitely round 1 QB

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    Re: Too early to talk draft?

    All three of those teams should be QB…

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

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    Re: Too early to talk draft?

    Reading up a little on Andy Weidl's history is getting me excited for draft. Sounds like he values the big boys on both sides of the line. He stumped for Ngata in Baltimore and from the sounds of it in Philly, he's done pretty well on both OL and DL as of late.

    Sent from my SM-A426U using Tapatalk
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    Re: Too early to talk draft?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluecoat96 View Post
    Reading up a little on Andy Weidl's history is getting me excited for draft. Sounds like he values the big boys on both sides of the line. He stumped for Ngata in Baltimore and from the sounds of it in Philly, he's done pretty well on both OL and DL as of late.

    Sent from my SM-A426U using Tapatalk
    And what I like about eagles is that they are able to admit their mistake or to know when it's time for a change....I hope that will be the case in Pittsburgh under him too but I have my doubts since I don't believe he has the power for that

  16. #76
    Senior Member Array title="teegre has a reputation beyond repute"> teegre's Avatar

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    Re: Too early to talk draft?

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    We got blown out by the Bills and the Eagles… who are likely the Super Bowl representatives from each conference. We were within one score of winning the other four losses.

    Buuut… back to the draft. Currently, give me:

    3. Jalen Carter, DL, Georgia
    34. Joey Porter, Jr., CB, Penn St.
    66. Zion Nelson, OT, The U
    Comp: Ricky Stromberg, C, Arkansas
    With an early R2 pick (from the Claypool trade), why not add a LG:

    Andrew Vorhees, USC

    I know his brother (Jason) is a killer...

  17. #77
    Senior Member Array title="Orion has a reputation beyond repute"> Orion's Avatar

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    Re: Too early to talk draft?

    i dont know how you could pass up a lineman with a name like Skoronski.

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    Re: Too early to talk draft?

    Moved to the proper thread.
    Last edited by Mojouw; 11-02-2022 at 08:50 AM. Reason: Wrong thread

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    Re: Too early to talk draft?

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    i dont know how you could pass up a lineman with a name like Skoronski.

    hell of a good player
    Kenny Pickett is who I though he was .. Eagles problem now

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    Re: Too early to talk draft?

    Skoronski may be this year’s Quinten Nelson. Being 6’4” and around 295lbs probably/maybe moves him inside for the NFL. If the Steelers take him in the 1st then maybe another WR and a top Center in the 2nd. Now Pickett has inside protection and good weapons.

    On the other side of the ball, DL and CB are looking a bit top heavy currently.

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    Re: Too early to talk draft?

    Sign Orlando Brown. Draft Jordan Addison?

    If KP is our passer, we would then have a protect the passer in Brown, and we already have the rush the passer. (Parcells)

    Get KP another weapon on offense in Addison, who he has great chemistry with, and draft interior OL in the 2nd.

    Wishful thinking I know.
    Last edited by RunNGun; 11-03-2022 at 12:34 PM.

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    Re: Too early to talk draft?

    Updating the Steelers 2023 NFL Draft picks after the trade deadline

    Taking a look at the Steelers’ 2023 draft picks, by round, after their recent trades.

    By Jeff.Hartman@BnGBlitz Nov 2, 2022

    https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.co...illiam-jackson

  23. #83
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    Re: Too early to talk draft?

    Quote Originally Posted by RunNGun View Post
    Sign Orlando Brown.
    YES!!! I have been saying that for a year. We have the cap space to sign a franchise LT. Why not!?!

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    Re: Too early to talk draft?

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    YES!!! I have been saying that for a year. We have the cap space to sign a franchise LT. Why not!?!
    Smart man. They should throw him whatever he wants in $. I think that would get us back on the fast track to being a competitive football team. Idk much about the upcoming WRs, but Addison impressed me a lot last year. I could easily see WR being our first pick if they went out and got Brown.

  25. #85
    Senior Member Array title="Mojouw has a reputation beyond repute"> Mojouw's Avatar

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    Re: Too early to talk draft?

    I haven't watched Brown's play in some time. But, you all might want to slow your role on "franchise LT" status.

    "But in the Chiefs’ defense, Brown Jr. was solid, but not spectacular. Per PFF, Brown Jr. tied for the league lead in allowed quarterback hits (12), he allowed the 14th-most sacks (4), allowed the seventh-most overall pressures (36), and finished 11th with an overall pass blocking efficiency mark of 97.2 among left tackles with at least 853 pass blocking snaps. He also tied for the ninth-most penalties committed (5)." -- https://atozsports.com/kansas-city/c...ando-brown-jr/

    I think he is far better than Moore Jr. but I do not know if I would throw top of the market $$$ at him to be my LT for the next 10 years. Especially when, for the first time in a really long time, the Steelers look to be in position to snag one of the top draft eligible LTs.

  26. #86
    Senior Member Array title="Steeler-in-west has a reputation beyond repute"> Steeler-in-west's Avatar

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    Re: Too early to talk draft?

    Definitely looks like the Steelers success rate on drafting in the first round started trending downhill after 2014. The one anomaly being TJ in 17. For instance, we missed out on Lamar Jackson in 2018, instead taking Edmunds - that could've kept us relevant now (sure Ben wouldn't have liked the pick but it would've been a savvy and prudent move by Colbert and Rooney).

    all in on the Orlando Brown type signing - We still need a replacement for AV and the Big Ragu it seems (Cole looks serviceable to this point)

  27. #87
    Senior Member Array title="Mojouw has a reputation beyond repute"> Mojouw's Avatar

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    Re: Too early to talk draft?

    I suspect their draft "hit" rate is going to go up for a few years. Most of the "bad" picks over say the last decade or restricting it to the last 5 years...have been a playoff caliber team attempting to take the "guy that gets us over the hump" with their first round pick, rather than the best overall player. It is a pretty common thing on contending teams.

    Now that they finally seem to realize they are reloading/rebuilding, it should be pretty straightforward to just pick BPA and rebuild the roster.

  28. #88
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    Re: Too early to talk draft?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steeler-in-west View Post
    Definitely looks like the Steelers success rate on drafting in the first round started trending downhill after 2014. The one anomaly being TJ in 17. For instance, we missed out on Lamar Jackson in 2018, instead taking Edmunds - that could've kept us relevant now (sure Ben wouldn't have liked the pick but it would've been a savvy and prudent move by Colbert and Rooney).

    all in on the Orlando Brown type signing - We still need a replacement for AV and the Big Ragu it seems (Cole looks serviceable to this point)
    I would take Edmunds over Lamar all day, all Lamar can do is run, he isn’t accurate and it shows every season.

  29. #89
    Senior Member Array title="Orion has a reputation beyond repute"> Orion's Avatar

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    Re: Too early to talk draft?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rotorhead View Post
    I would take Edmunds over Lamar all day, all Lamar can do is run, he isn’t accurate and it shows every season.
    i absolutely LOVE you commitment to hating on Lamar.

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    Re: Too early to talk draft?

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    i absolutely LOVE you commitment to hating on Lamar.
    Is it not true? I have him on my fantasy team, and the first few games this season it looked like he maybe turned that around, but the last few games he has not been the guy honestly.

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