Growing Pains

[Edman]

You have a rookie quarterback and you have to grow with the good with the bad. Very terrible game by Picked near the end. We still had two shots to win and threw two horrendous interceptions. Both within the same vicinity of the same not very good receiver (Johnson). The second was egregious because Pickett had grass in front of him and could've ran into first and goal. He tried to force it to Johnson and it blew up in his face.

Does it suck to lose this way? But this team was 2-4 and on the backburner all season, so it wouldn't have made a difference anyway. After three decent performances, Pickett had his first real "suck" moment in the NFL. We'll see how he learns and grows from it, and hope he does. He clearly isn't intimidated by the NFL and the game isn't too big for him, but he has to make better decisions than what happened last night.

[EzraTank]

Pickett looks exactly like Ben did in 2004, with the big difference being that Ben has a great defense to bail out his mistakes. Ben also had an offensive line, Bettis running the ball and an OC that knew how to draw up plays more complicated than a high school coach.

[Mojouw]

https://youtu.be/bHf504D-Q0k

I am honestly not trying to be an ass. But help me understand how this is getting blamed on the WR?

It looks like a scramble drill after whatever nonsense Canada drew up. DJ floats back to open grass behind his defender. KP starts to take off and then changes his mind. Tries to flick a pass to the corner of the endzone and undershoots it by about 5 yards. It looks like if that ball was to the back corner of the endzone rather than the pylon, maybe its complete? Or are some thinking that DJ was supposed to be at the front pylon, not the back corner?

I see a QB that either misread where the defender was or totally overestimated his ability to throw behind the defense on the move.

These may not be terminal mistakes for Pickett overall. It looks like a guy who really is finding out what he can and can not get away with at this level. But I am not understanding how this one is getting pushed onto the WR. Not saying I am right, either. Just not understanding.

[EzraTank]

https://youtu.be/bHf504D-Q0k

I am honestly not trying to be an ass. But help me understand how this is getting blamed on the WR?

It looks like a scramble drill after whatever nonsense Canada drew up. DJ floats back to open grass behind his defender. KP starts to take off and then changes his mind. Tries to flick a pass to the corner of the endzone and undershoots it by about 5 yards. It looks like if that ball was to the back corner of the endzone rather than the pylon, maybe its complete? Or are some thinking that DJ was supposed to be at the front pylon, not the back corner?

I see a QB that either misread where the defender was or totally overestimated his ability to throw behind the defense on the move.

These may not be terminal mistakes for Pickett overall. It looks like a guy who really is finding out what he can and can not get away with at this level. But I am not understanding how this one is getting pushed onto the WR. Not saying I am right, either. Just not understanding.

There is no way Pickett was trying to throw that to the back corner, it was clearly to the front. Maybe he expected DJ to stop or come back but the angle it was thrown it would have been no where near the back corner. I just think Pickett made a horrible read, throw and decision there. He should have just tucked it and ran to somewhere near the 10 where he would have had a 1st down and about :18 seconds (2-3 plays) to take shots in the endzone. I'm really not ready to put this on KP with Canada calling these plays. His schemes suck and get no one open. Look at Pickett's pass to Muth earlier. It had to be perfect Muth was covered so well. Canada's offense is laughable.

[86WARD]

There is no way Pickett was trying to throw that to the back corner, it was clearly to the front. Maybe he expected DJ to stop or come back but the angle it was thrown it would have been no where near the back corner. I just think Pickett made a horrible read, throw and decision there. He should have just tucked it and ran to somewhere near the 10 where he would have had a 1st down and about :18 seconds (2-3 plays) to take shots in the endzone. I'm really not ready to put this on KP with Canada calling these plays. His schemes suck and get no one open. Look at Pickett's pass to Muth earlier. It had to be perfect Muth was covered so well. Canada's offense is laughable.

The only routes DJ ever runs are comeback routes…except for this route…lol.

[Mojouw]

There is no way Pickett was trying to throw that to the back corner, it was clearly to the front. Maybe he expected DJ to stop or come back but the angle it was thrown it would have been no where near the back corner. I just think Pickett made a horrible read, throw and decision there. He should have just tucked it and ran to somewhere near the 10 where he would have had a 1st down and about :18 seconds (2-3 plays) to take shots in the endzone. I'm really not ready to put this on KP with Canada calling these plays. His schemes suck and get no one open. Look at Pickett's pass to Muth earlier. It had to be perfect Muth was covered so well. Canada's offense is laughable.

I by no means meant to say that Pickett was trying to go to the back corner. He hucked that sucker right to the pylon. I phrased it poorly in my OP.

It kinda looks like all that was available there was an "alley-oop" over the CB to the back-corner to DJ. Pickett instead fires to the pylon. Is that why many are saying it was on DJ? Like he ran the wrong route?

On that Muth pass....that's open all day in the NFL. Not very open. But a defender with his back turned on a moving TE that has a step with no safety coming over to help? That's a completion more often than not.

[Dwinsgames]

this is way more than growing pains .................

no I am not hating , I am delivering a truthful message that should be as obvious as the sun rising in the east and setting in the west

[EzraTank]

this is way more than growing pains .................

no I am not hating , I am delivering a truthful message that should be as obvious as the sun rising in the east and setting in the west

None of us are in the film room or know who was supposed to run what route. To this day Neil O'Donnell still takes crap about his pick in the Superbowl but who knows if Ernie Mills was supposed to stop on that route and read it wrong?

This totally is growing pains, but it is worse because the guy that is supposed to be coaching KP and help him get over these growing pains is fucking clueless and cannot scheme anyone open. Like I said in the GDT yesterday I don't think Matt Canada could draw up an offense to capture Gilligan's Island.

[Mojouw]

So how is this - whatever you want to define this as - different than growing pains?

MT wasn't given a shot because he was hampered by Canada's offense.

But KP tossing rookie INTs and losing ballgames (normal stuff for rookie QBs) is evidence of a larger underlying problem?

Like I have said before, after DWins, I believe I have the least amount of optimism regarding Pickett's ceiling as a pro. But...I have to admit that two mistakes (and they were bad because they led to turnovers) hardly seems like a blinking red light about some big point of failure.

I will balance that with saying that I continue to have concerns that Pickett doesn't have the talent to make the throws his brain tells him are available. Like on the positive side of things, he seems really good at reading and reacting to the defense. The negative is that a voice in his head is saying "You can hit that. No problem!" and he isn't able to actually do that in the NFL. I never watched more than highlights of his time at Pitt, but it seems like he made some positive things happen by attempting throws that really weren't great ideas. And he made it work. Remains to be seen if he can do that on Sundays.

But...all that being said...isn't that exactly what growing pains are? Figuring out what you can and can not get away with against NFL defenses?

[DuckHodges]

So how is this - whatever you want to define this as - different than growing pains?

MT wasn't given a shot because he was hampered by Canada's offense.

But KP tossing rookie INTs and losing ballgames (normal stuff for rookie QBs) is evidence of a larger underlying problem?

Like I have said before, after DWins, I believe I have the least amount of optimism regarding Pickett's ceiling as a pro. But...I have to admit that two mistakes (and they were bad because they led to turnovers) hardly seems like a blinking red light about some big point of failure.

I will balance that with saying that I continue to have concerns that Pickett doesn't have the talent to make the throws his brain tells him are available. Like on the positive side of things, he seems really good at reading and reacting to the defense. The negative is that a voice in his head is saying "You can hit that. No problem!" and he isn't able to actually do that in the NFL. I never watched more than highlights of his time at Pitt, but it seems like he made some positive things happen by attempting throws that really weren't great ideas. And he made it work. Remains to be seen if he can do that on Sundays.

But...all that being said...isn't that exactly what growing pains are? Figuring out what you can and can not get away with against NFL defenses?

Pretty much, and I'll also add getting familiarity with who's playing with you (receivers), and knowing what they're capable and not capable of. I want to see more deep shots to pickens and less to claypool. claypool is that short-intermediate guy who can take crossers for long gains but never seems to have success tracking deep balls

[Edman]

These may not be terminal mistakes for Pickett overall. It looks like a guy who really is finding out what he can and can not get away with at this level. But I am not understanding how this one is getting pushed onto the WR. Not saying I am right, either. Just not understanding.

Pickett made a living at Pitt making wild plays like that. He looked like he was going to scramble at first, then changed his mind at the last moment and decided "I'm going to heave it down there." Johnson probably thought Pickett was going to scramble for the first, and the Dolphin DB already had his back turned to Pickett and sees him all the way. Pickett throws and its doomed.

Pickett had clear open space in front of him to run for the first, which a veteran would take no problem, but his college tendencies got to him, and he got bit. At least Pickett is taking risks and trying to make things happen. It didn't work out here obviously, but its easier to tame a wild horse than try to raise the dead.

[Rotorhead]

https://youtu.be/bHf504D-Q0k

I am honestly not trying to be an ass. But help me understand how this is getting blamed on the WR?

It looks like a scramble drill after whatever nonsense Canada drew up. DJ floats back to open grass behind his defender. KP starts to take off and then changes his mind. Tries to flick a pass to the corner of the endzone and undershoots it by about 5 yards. It looks like if that ball was to the back corner of the endzone rather than the pylon, maybe its complete? Or are some thinking that DJ was supposed to be at the front pylon, not the back corner?

I see a QB that either misread where the defender was or totally overestimated his ability to throw behind the defense on the move.

These may not be terminal mistakes for Pickett overall. It looks like a guy who really is finding out what he can and can not get away with at this level. But I am not understanding how this one is getting pushed onto the WR. Not saying I am right, either. Just not understanding.

I agree, KP under threw that ball, if arcs it to the back corner, DJ has a chance for it. If we had an OC that wasn’t garbage we wouldn’t be in this position, cause our defense played lights out after the first 2 drives. Honestly he should have just run OOB for the first and took a couple more shots. This is the thing he needs to learn and a good lesson. Same for the previous INT, he tried to force it and paid the price. Growing pains here, sucks, but if he learns from it good. Our season is lost at this point anyway.

[Rotorhead]

I by no means meant to say that Pickett was trying to go to the back corner. He hucked that sucker right to the pylon. I phrased it poorly in my OP.

It kinda looks like all that was available there was an "alley-oop" over the CB to the back-corner to DJ. Pickett instead fires to the pylon. Is that why many are saying it was on DJ? Like he ran the wrong route?

On that Muth pass....that's open all day in the NFL. Not very open. But a defender with his back turned on a moving TE that has a step with no safety coming over to help? That's a completion more often than not.

Not open in Crapnada’s offense, lol

[vasteeler]

this is way more than growing pains .................

no I am not hating , I am delivering a truthful message that should be as obvious as the sun rising in the east and setting in the west

I hate posts like this. Of course it's growing pains. You act as if no rookie QB has ever come in and had been rookie like. So when Manning came in and was terrible that first year, was that way more than growing pains? What about Bradshaw, Aikmen, Favre and a list of several others.

" Way more than growing pains"... Lol. you don't have a clue, none of us do.

[Rotorhead]

So, after reading KPs comments on the last INT, and watching the play over again, KP was expecting DJ to cut it back and he threw a pass accordingly (high over the pylon where he thought DJ was going to be, and where he would have been if he would have stopped). It was a really good throw and a bad miscommunication between them. While he should have just ran OOB, I now understand what he was trying to do. More reps/comfort with his WRs is what is needed there. Watching last night, I thought he just underthrew it cause he was on the run. So he only had one bad INT this game as far as I am concerned, the one prior that he forced.

[RunNGun]

I hate posts like this. Of course it's growing pains. You act as if no rookie QB has ever come in and had been rookie like. So when Manning came in and was terrible that first year, was that way more than growing pains? What about Bradshaw, Aikmen, Favre and a list of several others.

" Way more than growing pains"... Lol. you don't have a clue, none of us do.

100%. But if we drafted Sam Howell we would be 7-0 and that is a fact because Dwins watched film on him.

All jokes aside, KP has flashes of looking like a very capable QB, but of course he's got a lot of growing to do. What did we all expect?

[Dwinsgames]

I hate posts like this. Of course it's growing pains. You act as if no rookie QB has ever come in and had been rookie like. So when Manning came in and was terrible that first year, was that way more than growing pains? What about Bradshaw, Aikmen, Favre and a list of several others.

" Way more than growing pains"... Lol. you don't have a clue, none of us do.

its not my fault you havent been paying attention ..........

growing pains would be a group of guys trying to learn how to play together ...

that is not the issue we have here , its not close to that ....

we have a broken system

[86WARD]

So, after reading KPs comments on the last INT, and watching the play over again, KP was expecting DJ to cut it back and he threw a pass accordingly (high over the pylon where he thought DJ was going to be, and where he would have been if he would have stopped). It was a really good throw and a bad miscommunication between them. While he should have just ran OOB, I now understand what he was trying to do. More reps/comfort with his WRs is what is needed there. Watching last night, I thought he just underthrew it cause he was on the run. So he only had one bad INT this game as far as I am concerned, the one prior that he forced.

He explained it exactly how it looked during the game. That kind of thing comes with time.

[Devil's D]

Lol, well if Kenny says it wasn't a "bad" interception who are we to judge as we are not in the film room.

Bottom line, dude (1st round pick starting QB) had the football in his hand and his first chance to be a hero and win the game. Ben coming off the couch last night after 11.5 beers would have won the game on that drive. The Steelers have two other QBs on the roster that would have won the game on that drive. All of that is true despite Canada and all the other problems with this team.

Okay, Kenny is a rookie..he may improve..but his failure on that drive (not to mention his other "good" INTs) only inspires confidence among those too blind to see. Blame everyone else.....but the ball was in Kenny's tiny hands.

[vasteeler]

Lol, well if Kenny says it wasn't a "bad" interception who are we to judge as we are not in the film room.

Bottom line, dude (1st round pick starting QB) had the football in his hand and his first chance to be a hero and win the game. Ben coming off the couch last night after 11.5 beers would have won the game on that drive. The Steelers have two other QBs on the roster that would have won the game on that drive. All of that is true despite Canada and all the other problems with this team.

Okay, Kenny is a rookie..he may improve..but his failure on that drive (not to mention his other "good" INTs) only inspires confidence among those too blind to see. Blame everyone else.....but the ball was in Kenny's tiny hands.

You mean a rookie struggling in his first year of action. OMG!!!!
Cut him NOW!!!

again.... Fucking Steeler fans

[Mojouw]

its not my fault you havent been paying attention ..........

growing pains would be a group of guys trying to learn how to play together ...

that is not the issue we have here , its not close to that ....

we have a broken system

See? How hard was it to say that? Instead of leaving cryptic posts that don't further the conversation.

I actually can agree with what you are saying. I think.

I see it that KP will have growing pains as he adjusts his game to the NFL. But those growing pains will be extended and made worse by the absolutely laughable offensive "system" he is forced to play in.

Maybe that isn't what you are saying at all and if not, no problem - not trying to speak for ya.

[Devil's D]

Nobody is talking about cutting Kenny. Just not going to act like his failure with two chances to win the game was not disappointing, or that it was someone else's fault.

[Dwinsgames]

See? How hard was it to say that? Instead of leaving cryptic posts that don't further the conversation.

I actually can agree with what you are saying. I think.

I see it that KP will have growing pains as he adjusts his game to the NFL. But those growing pains will be extended and made worse by the absolutely laughable offensive "system" he is forced to play in.

Maybe that isn't what you are saying at all and if not, no problem - not trying to speak for ya.

pretty much

[teegre]

For once, Colin Cowherd nailed it.

(He says the same things as Edman.)

[DesertSteel]

I was playing around with QB stats a while ago and discovered something that shocked me. Kenny Pickett has a higher QBR than Aaron Rodgers this season - 41.1 to 40.5. How 'bout that?!

[Dwinsgames]

I was playing around with QB stats a while ago and discovered something that shocked me. Kenny Pickett has a higher QBR than Aaron Rodgers this season - 41.1 to 40.5. How 'bout that?!

you sure about that ?

as Bad as the Packers have been

A.Rod is still completing 66.7% of his passes has 11 TDs and just 3 picks ...

Pickett is completing about 68% of his passes has 2 TD's and 7 picks .....


nfl.com says Picketts rating is 66.8

Trubisky is 80.1

A.Rod is 94.9

about the same difference in Pickett and Trubisky as there is in Trubisky and Rogers ratings wise

[DesertSteel]

you sure about that ?

as Bad as the Packers have been

A.Rod is still completing 66.7% of his passes has 11 TDs and just 3 picks ...

Pickett is completing about 68% of his passes has 2 TD's and 7 picks .....


nfl.com says Picketts rating is 66.8

Trubisky is 80.1

A.Rod is 94.9

about the same difference in Pickett and Trubisky as there is in Trubisky and Rogers ratings wise

QBR not passer rating. They are two different statistics.

[Dwinsgames]

QBR not passer rating. They are two different statistics.

KP 41.1 , MT 48.6 Steelers have two in top 23 yet all offensive stats are offensive

[DesertSteel]

[86WARD]

Just remember that QBR is different than Passer Rating. Passer rating is the statistic that most people are used to hearing about.