Ahead of the Game: Jets week

[DuckHodges]

Yup and their "bridge QB " got injured, so Ben had to play, but you still dont recognize that those 2004 Steelers had an O line of 2 pro bowlers, a HOF Guard in Faneca, plus some other all time greats like Bettis and Hines Ward on that '04 team around rookie Ben.

Your comparison of the situation of Ben to Pickett, given the the 2004 Steelers offensive group compared to the 2022 offensive group is absurd. The only commonality is they were QB's drafted in the first round.

It really doesn't matter what the situation was, the fact of the matter is Ben played his first year, much ahead of schedule, and not only survived, but thrived. One can argue that Pickett is even touted as being more "NFL Ready" than Ben was in his rookie season.

Sure it was a better overall team in 2004, but it's not like this squad is an absolutely terrible one (comparing this team to most teams that start a first round QB).

I would not be so much in favor of him starting if Trubisky has shown himself to be competent and not a total waste of time, but he has been. Until he shows me something, my opinion will not change. I have to say my patience for him has never been that high considering I've watched a lot of Bears games over the years (3 good friends of mine are bears fans and we often get together to watch games), and this year's Mitch looks like the same one in 2019 (not good)

[steelreserve]

There’s ample number of examples of QBs succeeding without being thrown to the wolves…no one can make an exact case about why or why he shouldn’t be starting because no one has the facts. No one has the ability to see the future. Stop whining about when he’s going to play.

NEWSFLASH: Pickett, Trubisky, Rudolph, Wilson, Howell, you pick the name…they aren’t winning this season with any QB back there…

Here are the facts we know for sure: Trubisky sucks ass. We've seen that, it's confirmed.

That being the case, you don't really need to know anything else. The other guy might be better or he might not, but what does that even matter. The current guy isn't any good, so get him the fuck out of there.

There is no rational situation in which the right move is to say, "this obviously sucks, but I'm going to keep doing it and I'm fine with still sucking because at least I know what it is." That's retarded.

It's not that we have to suck it up and suffer through it because it can't be helped. It's a manufactured problem because Tomlin will die on whatever hill he creates.

[86WARD]

The wasted time is a totally under-rated factor.

Remember when Ben started in 2004 and Faneca and other vets pissed and moaned because they didn't want to waste a year of their career with a rookie? Think this defense wants to do that?

And I would agree that the 2022 Steelers are a bad team on offense no matter who is under center. So take your medicine now. Force feed KP reps. Push the integration of Canada's "system" with KP's abilities. Develop chemistry between KP and the skill position players (none of whom are going anywhere for 3+ years). Steelers still lose 10 games. or more. BUT...then in 2023 you have a decent amount of this stuff "figured out".

Film to know if KP is worth investing in developing or if you need to get another QB.
Chemistry between the offensive core.
Determine if you need a new OC or not. Does anyone want this to be less than clear entering the off-season?

There are several other actually important for NFL teams to know kinda questions that can only be answered when KP plays a significant number of regular season games. Why the Steelers are in seemingly no rush to find the answers to those is beyond me.

And why should fans stop whining about what their favorite team is or is not doing? Especially when it appears to fly in the face of recent evidence and CBA fueled logic? I mean have you been on the internet or radio before?

You have 5-years to figure it out. There’s plenty of time to figure out if Pickett is useful or not. Clock is not an issue.

The whining isn’t going to change anything. The Steelers do what they do and they most likely know the whole story and game plan. None of us do. Sit back, relax and watch it unfold.

[Moose]

Tomlin and the Rooney's are 'old time' football. They hate making changes and show loyalty to player's, whether they are good or not. I'm almost to the point that I personally don't think this organization wants to win anymore. Just stick to what sometimes works. Boring ass football team, no guts, no glory. We have become BOTTOM FEEDERS the new bungholes. Just my opinion.

[steelreserve]

I mean, you say this:

no one can make an exact case about why or why he shouldn’t be starting because no one has the facts. No one has the ability to see the future.

literally right before you say this:

NEWSFLASH: Pickett, Trubisky, Rudolph, Wilson, Howell, you pick the name…they aren’t winning this season with any QB back there…

It's the same thing as announcing "I don't have a point" immediately before telling everyone else they have no point.

You have 5-years to figure it out. There’s plenty of time to figure out if Pickett is useful or not. Clock is not an issue.

What's the purpose of wasting time, though? Sure, we can waste an entire season on this, win 4 games, get everybody good and pissed off, and be no better off than we were in the first place. You think that's smart or dumb?

Yeah, we got plenty of time to figure out about Pickett, but the one place we'll never find it out is on the bench.

The whining isn’t going to change anything. The Steelers do what they do and they most likely know the whole story and game plan. None of us do. Sit back, relax and watch it unfold.

Ah yes, the old "you can't control it, so just watch it without comment." In that case, why have a message board? Why even bother being interested in anything at all?

[Mojouw]

You have 5-years to figure it out. There’s plenty of time to figure out if Pickett is useful or not. Clock is not an issue.

The whining isn’t going to change anything. The Steelers do what they do and they most likely know the whole story and game plan. None of us do. Sit back, relax and watch it unfold.

You have 2-3 before the CBA allows an extension. Either you extend at some point in year 3/4 or you have a Baker Mayfield situation.

In terms of "wasting time" not mattering -- do you think Heyward, Watt, or other defensive vets wants to figure out if they have a partner on offense in 2025 or maybe sometime prior to that?

[polamalubeast]

The expectation were very low in 2004.They were 26th in power rankings on ESPN before the 2004 season and they were not good in the first 2 games against a weak raiders team and a blowout loss in Baltimore(it was 20-0 in the 3rd quarter before Ben come in)It was also a 6-10 team in 2003.....It was not a loaded team at this time but Ben make a major difference.He was the first rookie QB ever to win the rookie of the year.He had 8.9 yards per pass attempts!

[Steeler-in-west]

2023 Draft class is going to be better for the QB position - maybe sorta the Steelers kinda want to know if they need a QB next year or not.

https://theathletic.com/3415147/2022...3-qb-scouting/

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

2023 Draft class is going to be better for the QB position - maybe sorta the Steelers kinda want to know if they need a QB next year or not.

https://theathletic.com/3415147/2022...3-qb-scouting/

Steelers hitched their wagon to Pickett. They are not drafting a QB with a premium pick in '23. They just arent going to roll him out there before he is ready, just because some whiny fans cant handle having a 1-2 record.

[Mojouw]

Steelers hitched their wagon to Pickett. They are not drafting a QB with a premium pick in '23. They just arent going to roll him out there before he is ready, just because some whiny fans cant handle having a 1-2 record.

For me, I can totally handle the record. Doesn't really bother me one way or the other after the final whistle blows on Sunday.

What I have always really liked about being a football fan was trying to understand how the Steelers and other teams come to the decisions they make. What was their process? What factors were prioritized in their decision making? I'm not going to figure out the intricacies of every scheme or technical element of each position but I do have a slim shot at assessing and evaluating how teams are making their decisions.

And in this case, based on the publicly available information, data points, and recent comparable scenarios -- I couldn't disagree more strongly with how the Steelers are making decisions.

Now, of course, this could all change with more games (data) or more information that has previously stayed behind closed doors becoming publicly available.

[Steeler-in-west]

Steelers hitched their wagon to Pickett. They are not drafting a QB with a premium pick in '23. They just arent going to roll him out there before he is ready, just because some whiny fans cant handle having a 1-2 record.

the Steelers hitched their wagon to a guy they haven't even seen play in a real game? Yet he's not ready and MT seemingly is? Doesn't really make much sense.

its not about not handling the record btw. I was there in the 80's. 1-2 is nothing. Its not even about poor QB play. Its about watching poor-mediocre QB play when your defense and receivers are playing their asses off and you have a 24 year old promising 1st round pick sitting on the sidelines. There is no good excuse to keep him on the bench much longer.

[DuckHodges]

Steelers hitched their wagon to Pickett. They are not drafting a QB with a premium pick in '23. They just arent going to roll him out there before he is ready, just because some whiny fans cant handle having a 1-2 record.

It's not the record, it's giving the start to a guy who obviously is not the answer, and has no hope whatsoever of becoming a viable starter in the NFL. If his road will lead to nowhere, we're wasting our time (and a good defense) by trotting that guy out there.

[Rotorhead]

You guys keep acting like if Pickett doesn’t play this year then it’s doomsday and the kids career is ruined and the franchise will never rebound. Lol.

Many things can happen here:

When he plays isn’t a factor in any of them…not even a little factor according to the posts here.


Pickett sits 2022 (oh no…so much time wasted) and plays in 2023.

Pickett plays tomorrow.

He’s either going to be good or bad. Guess what, if he doesn’t play until 2023 and is the worst QB in the history of the NFL, it doesn’t matter. The rest of the team most likely improved. If Pickens turns out to be what everyone here has been clamoring about, you’re getting first round talent…Pickett pick not wasted. You’ve gotten two more first round picks and you’re picking a QB in 2024…with a potentially better roster than what you have in 2022.

There’s ample number of examples of QBs succeeding without being thrown to the wolves…no one can make an exact case about why or why he shouldn’t be starting because no one has the facts. No one has the ability to see the future. Stop whining about when he’s going to play.

NEWSFLASH: Pickett, Trubisky, Rudolph, Wilson, Howell, you pick the name…they aren’t winning this season with any QB back there…

Well not true, I think we actually win the last 2 games with Pickett in there, but that may just be me.

[DesertSteel]

Well not true, I think we actually win the last 2 games with Pickett in there, but that may just be me.

I agree that better QB play would have been enough to win both those games. That’s a fact. I think KP could have provided that. That’s my opinion too.

[steelreserve]

Well not true, I think we actually win the last 2 games with Pickett in there, but that may just be me.

Realistically, this should have been an easy 3-0. Instead we're very lucky not to be 0-3. That's the really maddening part. It's not like this is just a shitty team with shitty talent on offense, shitty defense, shitty everything. It's a winning team for sure with even an average QB and average playcalling, and that's really making the difference. This team actually has real potential, and those two assholes are holding it back. And the one guy who can do anything about it, won't.

[Craic]

Realistically, this should have been an easy 3-0. Instead we're very lucky not to be 0-3. That's the really maddening part. It's not like this is just a shitty team with shitty talent on offense, shitty defense, shitty everything. It's a winning team for sure with even an average QB and average playcalling, and that's really making the difference. This team actually has real potential, and those two assholes are holding it back. And the one guy who can do anything about it, won't.

Why is everyone continually ignoring the offensive line problems? This is not a winning team. At least, not until we fix the o line. It was much better last week but there's still a ways to go.

[DesertSteel]

Why is everyone continually ignoring the offensive line problems? This is not a winning team. At least, not until we fix the o line. It was much better last week but there's still a ways to go.

The o-line is the only unit that’s improving.

[Craic]

The o-line is the only unit that’s improving.

That doesn't change the fact this isn't a winning team until they improve quite a bit more.

[Orion]

The o-line is the only unit that’s improving.

those bigger paychecks have really improved Dionte's hands. maybe they should give Claypool more money too ...

[Edman]

The O-Line is the only unit on the team that has played with any consistency.

[Orion]

The O-Line is the only unit on the team that has played with any consistency.

hows the run game going ? if ben was still QB he would have been sacked a dozen times by now.

[polamalubeast]

hows the run game going ? if ben was still QB he would have been sacked a dozen times by now.

I don't think so since in the last few years Ben was throwing so quick

Right now, it's not impossible to have success behind that o-line.... A good QB, the steelers would be 2-1 right now, instead of being lucky not to be 0-3.

4 offensive TD in 3 games is unacceptable and it need a change quick

[86WARD]

You have 2-3 before the CBA allows an extension. Either you extend at some point in year 3/4 or you have a Baker Mayfield situation.

In terms of "wasting time" not mattering -- do you think Heyward, Watt, or other defensive vets wants to figure out if they have a partner on offense in 2025 or maybe sometime prior to that?

You have a Baker Mayfield situation. You have a LaMar Jackson situation. You have a Carson Wentz situation. You have a Jared Goff situation. All could happen. Many situations could happen. Maybe they figure it out in 2 years, 3 years, maybe 4? The bottom line is you have 5 years to figure out what you want to do with him. There’s no reason to whine about them not putting him in for the third game of his rookie season. Lol. There’s outrage from this fan base like never before about not playing Pickett in his third preseason game. It’s hilarious.

I mean are you trying to play the “sign the franchise QB at a discount” game? If so and Pickett is indeed a franchise guy, that’s not a thing. Either you are paying him or another team will. There’s no such game.

[86WARD]

Here are the facts we know for sure: Trubisky sucks ass. We've seen that, it's confirmed.

That being the case, you don't really need to know anything else. The other guy might be better or he might not, but what does that even matter. The current guy isn't any good, so get him the fuck out of there.

There is no rational situation in which the right move is to say, "this obviously sucks, but I'm going to keep doing it and I'm fine with still sucking because at least I know what it is." That's retarded.

It's not that we have to suck it up and suffer through it because it can't be helped. It's a manufactured problem because Tomlin will die on whatever hill he creates.

Not only does Trubisky suck ass, so does Canada. No one should be in a hurry to see Canada fuck Pickett up like he’s done with the rest of this high school offense. Lol.

[Mojouw]

You have a Baker Mayfield situation. You have a LaMar Jackson situation. You have a Carson Wentz situation. You have a Jared Goff situation. All could happen. Many situations could happen. Maybe they figure it out in 2 years, 3 years, maybe 4? The bottom line is you have 5 years to figure out what you want to do with him. There’s no reason to whine about them not putting him in for the third game of his rookie season. Lol. There’s outrage from this fan base like never before about not playing Pickett in his third preseason game. It’s hilarious.

I mean are you trying to play the “sign the franchise QB at a discount” game? If so and Pickett is indeed a franchise guy, that’s not a thing. Either you are paying him or another team will. There’s no such game.

If you look around the league, there is a fairly common path to success with this whole "get a new QB process". The common denominator is not sitting the dude on the bench. That has happened twice in recent years. Once with Josh Allen who was coming from a lower level of competition and was not viewed as mechanically and technically ready for the NFL. The other was Mahomes, who was also viewed as not ready because his Air Raid offense background needed filled in.

What is it that KP needs to work on before he is ready? What is he learning right now?

I actually don't think KP is going to be very good as an NFL starter. I didn't think he would be prior to the draft. And I still don't.

But each year the Steelers can not decide if it is time to build around KP or they need to go another way is another year "wasted" in the cheap rookie deal QB roster building easy button. This is not a new or revolutionary idea. Numerous clever football people both inside and outside the NFL have talked extensively about it.

And honestly, if MT or some other VET BRIDGE was playing even reasonably well, I wouldn't piss and moan so much about it. While I would still strongly disagree with the approach, I would at least still see how their plan was to replicate 2019-21 and win a bunch of close ugly games get to the playoffs and see what happens. That is certainly a path to take. Get the rest of your roster valuable NFL experience at a high level while waiting on KP to come online.

But that plan has detonated. They picked the wrong VET BRIDGE and now they're at a crossroads. I see no point on doubling down on a bad decision. Roll the dice on the draft pick. Even if he loses every game, you find out alot about him and the rest of your offensive core.

I am also highly biased here. I strongly reject the VET BRIDGE plan. I think it is a CYA plan that breeds failure and indecision. I'm not sure it has ever actually worked. I also believe it just sets the timeline of your return to contention back almost by definition. And, on top of that, I couldn't have imagined a worse QB to try and pull this plan off with than MT. He's almost built in a lab to be terrible at this. So I bring some strong pre-formed opinions to the table.

Honestly, I couldn't be less impressed with every single decision the Steelers have made regarding the QB position once Ben announced his retirement. I think they got almost every one wrong.

They look to have picked the wrong coordinator.
They look to have picked a QB coach who brings very little to the table.
They choose weapons over linemen in the draft.
They picked the wrong VET BRIDGE.
They are now running the MT offense. Whatever KP needs to succeed should be a bit different...so looking at a revision of the offense -- again -- when that happens.

Honestly, it is shocking to me how little the NFL chattering classes are talking about how these are objectively poor decisions that do not seem to be following the signposts that recently successful QB development stories have laid out. Like they surveyed the coaching landscape and decided that Canada and Sullivan where the two chuckleheads to shepherd KP into the NFL? Really?

[DesertSteel]

That doesn't change the fact this isn't a winning team until they improve quite a bit more.

I'll disagree. With better QB play and better play calling, this team can definitely win with the level of o-line play so far.

[steelreserve]

Not only does Trubisky suck ass, so does Canada. No one should be in a hurry to see Canada fuck Pickett up like he’s done with the rest of this high school offense. Lol.

That's your position then - Mitch the Bitch should play the whole season, pack it in until next year? Being 1-2 by throwing away a couple easily winnable games means it's a no-hoper? But I thought "it's hilarious^TM" to be making sweeping predictions like that after just three games, what'd I miss?

Or was it that we can't risk using Pickett until everything else is absolutely perfect? Well, next year we're going to have some problems too. I know, let's sit him on the bench again next year. Maybe we should just hold him out the full five years to be safe, that would be wise and patient.

Oh wait, I forgot, your whole position is based on some ridiculous assumption that any little thing is going to ruin a rookie quarterback's career forever, when actually it just doesn't.

I don't know why you and the rest of the "it's hilarious" gang have such a preoccupation with saying "look how smart I am for sitting down and shutting up - you should shut up too." But what I would like to see is the team win some games. Which they easily could if they weren't actively shooting themselves in the ballsack every week with this garbage. This is not as complicated as you want it to be.

[86WARD]

That's your position then - Mitch the Bitch should play the whole season, pack it in until next year? Being 1-2 by throwing away a couple easily winnable games means it's a no-hoper? But I thought "it's hilarious^TM" to be making sweeping predictions like that after just three games, what'd I miss?

Or was it that we can't risk using Pickett until everything else is absolutely perfect? Well, next year we're going to have some problems too. I know, let's sit him on the bench again next year. Maybe we should just hold him out the full five years to be safe, that would be wise and patient.

Oh wait, I forgot, your whole position is based on some ridiculous assumption that any little thing is going to ruin a rookie quarterback's career forever, when actually it just doesn't.

I don't know why you and the rest of the "it's hilarious" gang have such a preoccupation with saying "look how smart I am for sitting down and shutting up - you should shut up too." But what I would like to see is the team win some games. Which they easily could if they weren't actively shooting themselves in the ballsack every week with this garbage. This is not as complicated as you want it to be.

Clearly you pick and choose what posts to read and if you’ve been here long enough you know I don’t usually shut up. Lol.

If been saying for a long time that the ideal time to start Pickett is this week against the Jets. Said it before the season started. It’s just an ideal time to start him. Mini-bye week, at home, against the Jets.

I missed where I said everything should be perfect before starting him.

It’s hilarious that you and some others are so hell bent and adamant about the process of evaluating a QB and when they should or should not be playing. The level of anger has never been higher.

[86WARD]

If you look around the league, there is a fairly common path to success with this whole "get a new QB process". The common denominator is not sitting the dude on the bench. That has happened twice in recent years. Once with Josh Allen who was coming from a lower level of competition and was not viewed as mechanically and technically ready for the NFL. The other was Mahomes, who was also viewed as not ready because his Air Raid offense background needed filled in.

What is it that KP needs to work on before he is ready? What is he learning right now?

I actually don't think KP is going to be very good as an NFL starter. I didn't think he would be prior to the draft. And I still don't.

But each year the Steelers can not decide if it is time to build around KP or they need to go another way is another year "wasted" in the cheap rookie deal QB roster building easy button. This is not a new or revolutionary idea. Numerous clever football people both inside and outside the NFL have talked extensively about it.

And honestly, if MT or some other VET BRIDGE was playing even reasonably well, I wouldn't piss and moan so much about it. While I would still strongly disagree with the approach, I would at least still see how their plan was to replicate 2019-21 and win a bunch of close ugly games get to the playoffs and see what happens. That is certainly a path to take. Get the rest of your roster valuable NFL experience at a high level while waiting on KP to come online.

But that plan has detonated. They picked the wrong VET BRIDGE and now they're at a crossroads. I see no point on doubling down on a bad decision. Roll the dice on the draft pick. Even if he loses every game, you find out alot about him and the rest of your offensive core.

I am also highly biased here. I strongly reject the VET BRIDGE plan. I think it is a CYA plan that breeds failure and indecision. I'm not sure it has ever actually worked. I also believe it just sets the timeline of your return to contention back almost by definition. And, on top of that, I couldn't have imagined a worse QB to try and pull this plan off with than MT. He's almost built in a lab to be terrible at this. So I bring some strong pre-formed opinions to the table.

Honestly, I couldn't be less impressed with every single decision the Steelers have made regarding the QB position once Ben announced his retirement. I think they got almost every one wrong.

They look to have picked the wrong coordinator.
They look to have picked a QB coach who brings very little to the table.
They choose weapons over linemen in the draft.
They picked the wrong VET BRIDGE.
They are now running the MT offense. Whatever KP needs to succeed should be a bit different...so looking at a revision of the offense -- again -- when that happens.

Honestly, it is shocking to me how little the NFL chattering classes are talking about how these are objectively poor decisions that do not seem to be following the signposts that recently successful QB development stories have laid out. Like they surveyed the coaching landscape and decided that Canada and Sullivan where the two chuckleheads to shepherd KP into the NFL? Really?

To be honest, I can’t read that novel. I don’t have the attention span to do it right now but to address the first paragraph, there’s plenty examples of players sitting for multiple games and full seasons and have worked out just as well, if not better than Josh Allen. The evaluation period is different. Did anyone honestly think that Tomlin would go with a rookie QB out of the gate? That’s just naive and not knowing Mike Tomlin if they thought that was going to be the case. This is a guy that went years not starting rookie players that probably should’ve been starting.

Each evaluation process is going to be different. We don’t know what they are doing behind closed doors. Sitting worked out well for Aaron Rodgers and Patrick Mahomes. For every example of a QB starting out of the gates, there’s an equal and opposite example of a guy sitting.

[polamalubeast]

To be honest, I can’t read that novel. I don’t have the attention span to do it right now but to address the first paragraph, there’s plenty examples of players sitting for multiple games and full seasons and have worked out just as well, if not better than Josh Allen. The evaluation period is different. Did anyone honestly think that Tomlin would go with a rookie QB out of the gate? That’s just naive and not knowing Mike Tomlin if they thought that was going to be the case. This is a guy that went years not starting rookie players that probably should’ve been starting.

Each evaluation process is going to be different. We don’t know what they are doing behind closed doors. Sitting worked out well for Aaron Rodgers and Patrick Mahomes. For every example of a QB starting out of the gates, there’s an equal and opposite example of a guy sitting.

Rodgers was behind Brett Favre and Mahomes was behind Alex Smith who both are much better that MT