"The Game?" Golf? Gin Rummy? Bare feet shuffle board?Originally Posted by polamalubeast
Array title="oneforthetoe has a reputation beyond repute">
"The Game?" Golf? Gin Rummy? Bare feet shuffle board?
Go Fish.
Array title="DesertSteel has a reputation beyond repute">
Canada plays checkers while the rest of the NFL plays chess.
Haha,too funny!
https://twitter.com/SharpFootball/st...56594458562560
if this message board is going to be shut down, we need to go out in a blaze of glory!
FIRE Matt Canada!!!!!
Array title="pczach has a reputation beyond repute">
It can't get worse than what we did when SF shut down .. Lol
"Zeds dead baby, Zeds dead." - Butch
Array title="tube517 has a reputation beyond repute">
That makes me respect Canada. Maybe this offense finally clicks and that photo becomes a classic meme
Array title="ETL has a reputation beyond repute">
So I went on a limb earlier this off season saying that Canada will be sought out as a HC
candidate after the stellar offensive season we will have this year.
after watching that preseason game - do people notice any changes for the better on the offense? I saw more throws downfield than previously. Was it just that Ben’s arm was shot and Kenny was a rookie last yr and now finally Canada can unleash his full offense?
Array title="Mach1 has a reputation beyond repute">
It's preseason, it doesn't count.
Give a lib a fish--he eats for a day
Teach a lib to fish--he is back the next day asking for more free fish.
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Offense looked less offensive. Steelers attacked middle of the field a bit more. But it always seems the opponents have open receivers with more space more often than we do. Seems Canada just might be average or below average in terms of pass route scheming or design. KP is going to have to fit a lot of passes into tight windows.
Scheme? We don’t need no stinking schemes. Austin will just blow by defenders to have five yards of separation when the ball arrives. And Pickens will just throw his defenders to the ground at the line of scrimmage. That’s better than any damn scheme.
They aren't going to run any sophisticated plays in the pre-season.
The football internet has started to pile on Canada already. JT O'Sullivan in his QB School channel on YouTUbe and PFF has something about how Canada does not use "modern" or "up to date" concepts in his route combinations and play design to get his QB "easy" completions. Basically, from what I could gather, Canada not only isn't McVay, Shanahan, or Reid but these guys are arguing that he isn't even playing football in the same decade as decent NFL level coaches.
Me? I got no idea. From the little I saw of the first drive, it looked like Canada at least had WR's moving and not stopping. That is a big improvement. Also, it is Preseason WK 1...not sure he's going to break out the fancy stuff. Of course, O'Sullivan argues that the fancy stuff for Canada is now the average paper plates for others and that is the whole problem....but whatever?
I do offer this comment....ever notice how these fancy schmancy commentators just say things like "The schemes sucks" or "Imagine if Shanahan was calling plays in Pittsburgh!" and then do not offer up any further specifics....while I suspect that O'Sullivan knows what he is talking about....the rest is starting to feel like group-think echo chamber nonsense....
I can not believe I am going to start doing this....but I kinda feel like I am wanting to root for Canada and defend him a bit...I think I see what he building towards and I am not sure all the criticism out there on the internet is totally valid.
Again, I can not believe that the internet has forced me into this position. I hate the internet sometimes.
Array title="pczach has a reputation beyond repute">
I was on Canada last season about much of this, but I have already seen at least a few things that are encouraging to me. First of all, some of this is on the quarterback having more of the playbook available to him. Pickett was not using the entire field last season. Even if it's preseason, last year it was obvious that he was limited in what he could do or was allowed to do. He was slinging it around in the first preseason game.
Second, all the young weapons are now a year better. You can see that Pickens is already running more crisp routes and we already know how insanely talented he is and his unbelievable ball skills. DJ is still running great routes and getting open. Allen Robinson is going to school many LBs, safeties, and nickel corners when he gets free releases. Calvin Austin will get some snaps and will definitely get some attention and stretch the field. Muth is awesome. The offensive line has some growing pains to get through, but I think they will be better than last year. If they stay healthy and Jones develops to start immediately or is able to start sometime this season, the possibilities are there for Moore to also be kicked over to RT and the overall OL will be better and deeper.
Third, I have already seen a few better concepts where there are receivers running off defenders and other receivers are coming around some of the routes to create some natural rubs to help guys get open. Just using the middle of the field more will give Muth and Robinson chances to gouge defenses if they play against a lot of Cover 2 like they did last year. A better run game means better play action possibilities. Getting LB's to bite on the fake draws them closer to the LOS and there will be space in the middle of the field to feast. If they can run effectively and make defenses pay by working the middle with the pass, defenses will have to start taking chances with coverage on the outside receivers and the big plays will come. It still isn't a wide-open, creative offense that I am seeing, but you could see the footprint and how it could work with some 12 personnel thrown in that really gives the defenses fits trying to figure out whether they will run or pass.
And lastly, Kenny Pickett says he has more authority at the LOS to audible, change plays, make checks, line calls, protections, etc. A quarterback that knows what he is looking at can get the offense into a position to take advantage of coverage, rather than having to just run dead plays that the defenses were set up to stop last season. It looks like they are ready to threaten the entire field as we are seeing the ball go down the field more and attacking defenses. Granted it's a small sample, but the aggression was there and the areas of the field attacked are exactly what they need more of going forward.
This is still not a glowing review of Canada, but there is some growth. More growth by Canada. More growth and control at the LOS by Pickett. More improvement by all his weapons with better route trees to defeat coverage and better OL play will have this team scoring more points. Now it all has to come together once the real games start. I can't wait to see it.
I am hopeful and confident for improvement all the way around with the players. I am less confident in Canada's improvement, but there are some signs of improvement. Small signs....but signs.
Array title="Born2Steel has a reputation beyond repute">
For me it’s not about rooting for the guy. Of course I’m rooting for him. It’s not personal, I just want my team to have success.
The thing that’s frustrating with the offense so far has simply been how predictable the play calling has been. Whether that’s on the coaches, players, a combo of problems, whatever. I hope Canada succeeds because that would mean the Steelers offense is being successful.
I cannot disagree with the complaints. It’s been stupid at times. Asking guys to block bigger/better athletes than them in space is stupid. Making nearly every route a comeback is stupid. But I’m still rooting for the guy.
Both good comments.
At this point I’ve gone from thinking Canada is a moron or some sort of maniac that believes in his “system” over evidence to speculating that he knows what’s wrong/dumb but that was because he was told to design an idiot proof offense.
Designing an offense where even Trubisky can’t turn the ball over 4 times does take some doing.
But even with that, nothing excuses Gunner the Midget being asked to block DEs!
KP: ok it’s 3rd and 8, here comes the playScheme? We don’t need no stinking schemes. Austin will just blow by defenders to have five yards of separation when the ball arrives. And Pickens will just throw his defenders to the ground at the line of scrimmage. That’s better than any damn scheme.
KP: ok got it (makes a face)
PF: what’s wrong ?
KP: it’s a 5 and out to the right
Najee: jeez frikin!
CAIII: Kenny, I can blow by my guy, i can’t believe they put him on me
KP: ok, screw it, play action deep to the right
During the play
Canada: what the f is Kenny doing?
Canada: oh sh….oh yeah!!!!
gets a call from the sideline
Canada: yeah Mike? Thanks! We’ll I just trusted Kenny and Calvin to make that play
It’s just the same old critique that it has been for the past seasons…he’s not good…lol
Array title="pczach has a reputation beyond repute">
At some point, anyone can see that there are concepts that other teams are using that are tearing up the league. If Canada and, by proxy, Mike Tomlin don't see superior play design and creativity in the offenses they are playing against and incorporate some of that into their own offense, they don't deserve the jobs they have.
I understand that some people are doing this grandstanding about Canada to get clicks. They are overplaying it a bit for their own benefit, but there is much truth to the criticisms of Canada to this point. He needs to change the narrative. The talent is in place. He has talked about incorporating successful plays of other teams. He would be a fool not to. He has seen enough of that to know what works in the NFL and he now has the talent to take advantage of that. We will start to see what has been added to the arsenal in a few weeks.
Fair. I think everyone knows by this point that my opinion of Tomlin as a football coach is extremely positive. I have a hard time knowing that Tomlin can assist in designing and implementing defenses and be unaware of almost every passing concept in use in the league today. For instance, everyone credits the Chargers with exposing how to slow the Dolphins with Tua down. But the Steelers did a similar adjustment mid-game and spun MFF down into the middle of the field and Tua fell apart. My point is that is a schematically up to date whiz-bang offense and Tomlin/Austin/et al kind of figured it out.
So even if Tomlin is like "passing game design and offensive play calling scares and confuses me" (not saying that is how it is or that you were saying that) - he is clearly aware of how offenses are attacking his defenses. That leaves me with two conclusions:
1. Tomlin knows how broken Canada's offense is and is tolerating it because stability is being favored in KP's development.
2. The offense has been intentionally dumb due to poor offensive line play and the desire to limit/eliminate turnovers at all costs - the major cost being anything aside from sideline throws.
I suspect that this season will be how we, as fans, can discriminate between those two explanations. If we continue to see a bunch of Saturdays on Sundays nonsense, then we know that Canada is just out-classed. If that happens I truly hope that random college passing coach they hired late this spring is seen as a viable OC and Canada gets the boot ASAP. If we see a seemingly different offensive approach, then we know that Canada was limiting the offensive repertoire. Assume that is the outcome....then we have the entire other discussion if whether or not this was a good idea and if Canada was ever the guy to design and implement that offense.
I think I am talking myself in circles here. I suspect that 2023 will prove that Canada sucks, just less than we thought. And that after the season he will be quietly let go and someone else will be brought in to take charge of the next phase of KP's development.
Array title="pczach has a reputation beyond repute">
I don't think you are talking in circles. I love Mike Tomlin as a coach and as a man. I like everything about the man. My questions are about what is he responsible for with the offense? How much is Canada and only Canada accountable for?
We all think we know something, but we don't know everything. This whole thing has to play out to really know. My hope is that Tomlin isn't doing what you mention and knows the offense is broken but wants stability for Kenny Pickett. That would make zero sense if this isn't the system Pickett is going to be playing in for some time. Pickett is already in his mid 20's and doesn't need a few more wasted years learning a new system and be ready to roll into the next phase when he's pushing 30. He needs to be put in the best position possible to succeed in an offense now. If Tomlin really is doing this and wasting time in a system he believes is a dead end...shame on him.
I can't stand the way Canada has been doing things the last couple years, but in the second half of last season, you could see some things happening. Then the team goes out and kills it in free agency and crushes the draft, and there is a clear direction that they are going. Big and physical, with skill position players that can make plays and compliment the style of play. As I said in my post above, there is clearly something positive going on, but it isn't apparent. I see the entire idea of big, physical, play action, upgraded middle of the field players to compliment the outside threats, and an upgraded OL to push people around and hopefully protect the QB better. I see what could be, but I don't trust the implementation of it by Canada.
I think I know what they are doing and the direction they are taking, but I still have that lingering doubt about Canada based on the garbage offensive game plans he has been rolling out. I think it has to get better, but I really don't know it.
I think that is literally everyone's hangup. We really don't know yet. I am doubting Mike Tomlin if he allows a very basic offense to undermine this complete rebuild with a new quarterback. He gets the benefit of the doubt from me, but if it all goes to shit.....he has to answer for it because he was orchestrating all of this and had full knowledge of the shortcomings of Canada....or he didn't, which is just as bad.
That's why this whole thing better work out or Mike Tomlin is going to look very bad if it doesn't.
Not wanting to type on my phone a bunch. But summarizing some of my thoughts:
1. Tomlin has to know how bad it is.
2. Tomlin does not seem to be a big believer in our scheming opponents. He’s more of a play some simple stuff, flawlessly execute each play, and then sprinkle in some ludicrous athletes.
3. Steelers are tougher to judge than most. They honestly believe every season is a SB run. I would argue that 30-50% of the league isn’t planning on going past the wildcard round if that in a given year. So these fancy “Year 1 we do this and Year 2 we add this and Year 3 we try and compete” just isn’t a realistic comparison. Tomlin May very well be telling coaches to come up with the BEST turnover averse offense based on the roster each year. Could lead to some rough looking game plans.
4. I think KP may have to grow and thrive in spite of Steelers coaching not because of it. The Trubisky 4 game starter and KP gets 3rd team reps all preseason was just total out of date nonsense and wasted time. This season’s time wasting nonsense seems to be dithering around with Canada’s offense instead of trying and find a legitimate steward for KP’s development.
Array title="pczach has a reputation beyond repute">
I agree with most of what you said.
I'm not sure Tomlin knows how good or bad it is. That's what I'm concerned about.
You are correct about scheming opponents. I have questioned it myself at times. They play the team with the best secondary in football and worst run defense...and they throw the ball 50 times! Or just the opposite. I know they have to do some scheming, but it's not often that they really do something out of character to attack a team's weakness. Hey, they win a lot of games, but I wonder if they can do a little better by tailoring game plans.
They are difficult to judge because they never throw in the towel, and Tomlin gets absolutely everything out of undermanned teams. It's his superpower. It almost works to the detriment of the team and draft position, but I don't believe in backing off. Always play to win. I will never fault him for that. I don't think there is any doubt that he can go into the same shell Bill Cowher used to do offensively rather than take risks. It is very hard to watch at times, and I think that's why so many people turn of them at times. They always believe they can tough their way out of anything and will their way to victory.
I agree about Pickett. I think at times he overcame limitations put upon him by Canada/Tomlin. They should have given him more reps in preseason. When you draft a guy to be the future, the future should start sooner rather than later. Studying your playbook, watching film, and watching other people play does not help without actual reinforcement and learning by actually getting reps.
I will hold off on shoveling dirt on Canada for now, but I certainly wouldn't be giving him a long leash. I don't pretend to know how much Mr Rooney or Khan have to say about coaching hires/firings, but if it goes sideways, something needs to be done before too much time is wasted with what looks to be a great, young roster and a quarterback on a rookie contract. You show patience with a young quarterback, not the coaching staff with talent everywhere and the clock ticking on a window to be great.
So at this stage…
The season is all on Canada. They have everything in place and pretty much all you can ask for for an OC. It’s now 100% on Canada to get the blocking schemes down, to get the run game going, to scheme the receivers open. Any failures in the offense will be on Canada.
Agreed. Preseason was great against vanilla defense. With coordinator planning a game , I believe it will take good players overcoming a bad scheme
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Merry Christmas
Array title="Rotorhead has a reputation beyond repute">
Well, I am not one that ever liked Crapnada. We have seen in the preseason that KP can make all the throws, across the middle, dropping dimes on WRs in stride, great placement for Pickens jump balls, etc. we we see 10 screens, 15 sideline passes short of the sticks and no open WRs again, he needs to go ASAP. If we see plays like we did in the preseason, then I will start calling him Canada again.
Array title="pczach has a reputation beyond repute">
Sounds reasonable!
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