Fire Canada

[Mojouw]

I would really like to hear from the significant contingent of folks that were believers in a Trubisky Turnaround? What are your thoughts and reactions with a night to sleep on it?

And I am not being a jerk - at all. I am looking for some positive perspective on the QB play. Hoping you all saw some stuff that I didn't and can create a hopeful picture!

[Edman]

Guys not open or a QB who simply can't make the "big boy" throws into tight windows that playing QB in the NFL requires? Because personally, I think it was more the latter. Some of the garbage passes MT was chucking up (more often than not off his back foot) would have required guys to be WIDE open with no defenders within 10 yards of them to be successful. That's not going to happen too often in the NFL. And a number of them were so far off the mark even that wouldn't have helped.

I honestly thought I was watching the Kordell Stewart Era Redux at times during that game.

Yes indeedy, the post-Roethlisberger era has definitely started. I just hope I don't have to watch this shit for another 20+ years like last time...

Mitch was barely harassed yesterday and still he threw some horrible off target throws. George Pickens already on record being frustrated. Apparently he was beating his guy yesterday and Mitch wasn't seeing it and cannot get the ball to him. The Bengals stacked the line and dared Trubisky to beat them. He didn't.

Hey guys, it's actually possible to go from a declined QB to a QB who simply can't play. It happens. That's the tragedy of the QB conga line. Just ask the Colts and Broncos.

There's only so much we can blame OC's for. Some guys just simply can't play in the NFL.

[pczach]

I would really like to hear from the significant contingent of folks that were believers in a Trubisky Turnaround? What are your thoughts and reactions with a night to sleep on it?

And I am not being a jerk - at all. I am looking for some positive perspective on the QB play. Hoping you all saw some stuff that I didn't and can create a hopeful picture!

I was all for picking up Trubisky because I didn't believe in Rudolph, and the draft was in the future and all the uncertainty of QB availability that comes with that.

My opinion has been that I would go with Pickett, but I understand what Tomlin is thinking becuase of the experience factor and the OL situation. I don't agree with it, but I understand it.

On the surface, what we saw out of Trubisky was substandard. He looked hesitant. He was looking to see receivers open rather than anticipating or throwing them open. He was very cautious with the football, and seemed more worried about taking care of the rock than he was about making plays. I believe part of this is the limited action in preseason. All QB's go through this early in the season. Some thrive....others struggle when the action button goes to full speed. I also believe that Tomlin believes in this defense and has coached his QB's to protect the football at all costs. This type of coaching breeds what we saw yesterday. We see quarterbacks that are afraid to make throws. It makes them hesitant to try to make plays. The early lead and the great play of the defense put the coaching staff and Trubisky into full protection mode, making them far too conservative and afraid to take any risk.

I also know that no matter what, the QB is still the one with the ball in his hand. I saw some plays from Trubisky that concerned me because he had some open receivers, but either didn't see them or didn't throw them the ball. He also missed several wide-open check downs, where the RB was alone in the flat. If there is nothing open down the field, just take the safe, easy throw and take what was available. I'm not sure whether this is mostly coaching that causes paralysis, or Trubisky being unwilling to make throws in tight windows and not following his progressions. The check down is available on nearly every pass play unless there you have an empty backfield or the back stays in to block. Trubisky wasn't even taking those safe throws that are part of the progression, and he had the time and the space to get the ball to them. He was also inacurate on many throws. The receivers basically caught everything near them in that game. They were outstanding. MT has to be better than that in the execution of the offense. Period. Trubisky was at his best late in the game when he had the freedom to just let it go and create. When he had to make plays, he was able to do so, and the team got the win.

I beleive that the coaching staff has to allow Trubisky to play with that type of freedom. He also needs to use his legs more. All we heard was that they wanted a mobile quarterback, and then it's as if he was being coached to not run with the ball.

TJ Watt is going to miss significant time. Maybe the entire season. This should have a huge impact not only on the defense, but also on what is expected of the offense. The offense has to score more points. They need to be more agressive, because you could see the affect of the absence of Watt late in that game. The pass rush was not as effective. The secondary had to cover longer. The Bengals were able to run different routes because they had a little more time, and the protection was better.

The bottom line is that the coaching staff needs to ditch the game manager, play defense and don't make mistakes style of play. Trubisky then has to show that he can operate the offense with the chains off of him....or it should be Kenny Pickett time.

Losing Watt could actually force the team to go to Pickett because of the urgent need for more offense. I think Trubisky can and will play better if the coaching allows it and he gets more snaps. But if he continues to leave plays on the field or is wildly inaccurate, they will need to see what Pickett is capable of. I do beleive coaching philosophy is an issue, and at some point you have to let players play.

[Mojouw]

I was all for picking up Trubisky because I didn't believe in Rudolph, and the draft was in the future and all the uncertainty of QB availability that comes with that.

My opinion has been that I would go with Pickett, but I understand what Tomlin is thinking becuase of the experience factor and the OL situation. I don't agree with it, but I understand it.

On the surface, what we saw out of Trubisky was substandard. He looked hesitant. He was looking to see receivers open rather than anticipating or throwing them open. He was very cautious with the football, and seemed more worried about taking care of the rock than he was about making plays. I believe part of this is the limited action in preseason. All QB's go through this early in the season. Some thrive....others struggle when the action button goes to full speed. I also believe that Tomlin believes in this defense and has coached his QB's to protect the football at all costs. This type of coaching breeds what we saw yesterday. We see quarterbacks that are afraid to make throws. It makes them hesitant to try to make plays. The early lead and the great play of the defense put the coaching staff and Trubisky into full protection mode, making them far too conservative and afraid to take any risk.

I also know that no matter what, the QB is still the one with the ball in his hand. I saw some plays from Trubisky that concerned me because he had some open receivers, but either didn't see them or didn't throw them the ball. He also missed several wide-open check downs, where the RB was alone in the flat. If there is nothing open down the field, just take the safe, easy throw and take what was available. I'm not sure whether this is mostly coaching that causes paralysis, or Trubisky being unwilling to make throws in tight windows and not following his progressions. The check down is available on nearly every pass play unless there you have an empty backfield or the back stays in to block. Trubisky wasn't even taking those safe throws that are part of the progression, and he had the time and the space to get the ball to them. He was also inacurate on many throws. The receivers basically caught everything near them in that game. They were outstanding. MT has to be better than that in the execution of the offense. Period. Trubisky was at his best late in the game when he had the freedom to just let it go and create. When he had to make plays, he was able to do so, and the team got the win.

I beleive that the coaching staff has to allow Trubisky to play with type of freedom. He also needs to use his legs more. All we heard was that they wanted a mobile quarterback, and then it's as if he was being coached to not run with the ball.

TJ Watt is going to miss significant time. Maybe the entire season. This should have a huge impact not only on the defense, but also on what is expected of the offense. They offense has to score more points. They need to be more agressive, because you could see the affect of the absence of Watt late in that game. The pass rush was no as effective. The secondary had to cover longer. The Bengals were able to run different routes because they had a little more time, and the protection was better.

The bottom line is that the coaching staff needs to ditch the game manager, play defense and don't make mistakes style of play. Trubisky then has to show that he can operate the offense with the chains off of him....or it should be Kenny Pickett time.

Losing Watt could actually force the team to go to Pickett because of the urgent need for more offense. I think Trubisky can and will play better if the coaching allows it and he gets more snaps. But if he continues to leave plays on the field or is wildly inaccurate, they will need to see what Pickett is capable of. I do beleive coaching philosophy is an issue, and at some point you have to let players play.

I'll buy that for a dollar!

In all seriousness, I can see what you are saying and it has an extremely high probability of being the exact situation that unfolded yesterday.

Thanks for sharing!

[polamalubeast]

I was all for picking up Trubisky because I didn't believe in Rudolph, and the draft was in the future and all the uncertainty of QB availability that comes with that.

My opinion has been that I would go with Pickett, but I understand what Tomlin is thinking becuase of the experience factor and the OL situation. I don't agree with it, but I understand it.

On the surface, what we saw out of Trubisky was substandard. He looked hesitant. He was looking to see receivers open rather than anticipating or throwing them open. He was very cautious with the football, and seemed more worried about taking care of the rock than he was about making plays. I believe part of this is the limited action in preseason. All QB's go through this early in the season. Some thrive....others struggle when the action button goes to full speed. I also believe that Tomlin believes in this defense and has coached his QB's to protect the football at all costs. This type of coaching breeds what we saw yesterday. We see quarterbacks that are afraid to make throws. It makes them hesitant to try to make plays. The early lead and the great play of the defense put the coaching staff and Trubisky into full protection mode, making them far too conservative and afraid to take any risk.

I also know that no matter what, the QB is still the one with the ball in his hand. I saw some plays from Trubisky that concerned me because he had some open receivers, but either didn't see them or didn't throw them the ball. He also missed several wide-open check downs, where the RB was alone in the flat. If there is nothing open down the field, just take the safe, easy throw and take what was available. I'm not sure whether this is mostly coaching that causes paralysis, or Trubisky being unwilling to make throws in tight windows and not following his progressions. The check down is available on nearly every pass play unless there you have an empty backfield or the back stays in to block. Trubisky wasn't even taking those safe throws that are part of the progression, and he had the time and the space to get the ball to them. He was also inacurate on many throws. The receivers basically caught everything near them in that game. They were outstanding. MT has to be better than that in the execution of the offense. Period. Trubisky was at his best late in the game when he had the freedom to just let it go and create. When he had to make plays, he was able to do so, and the team got the win.

I beleive that the coaching staff has to allow Trubisky to play with type of freedom. He also needs to use his legs more. All we heard was that they wanted a mobile quarterback, and then it's as if he was being coached to not run with the ball.

TJ Watt is going to miss significant time. Maybe the entire season. This should have a huge impact not only on the defense, but also on what is expected of the offense. They offense has to score more points. They need to be more agressive, because you could see the affect of the absence of Watt late in that game. The pass rush was no as effective. The secondary had to cover longer. The Bengals were able to run different routes because they had a little more time, and the protection was better.

The bottom line is that the coaching staff needs to ditch the game manager, play defense and don't make mistakes style of play. Trubisky then has to show that he can operate the offense with the chains off of him....or it should be Kenny Pickett time.

Losing Watt could actually force the team to go to Pickett because of the urgent need for more offense. I think Trubisky can and will play better if the coaching allows it and he gets more snaps. But if he continues to leave plays on the field or is wildly inaccurate, they will need to see what Pickett is capable of. I do beleive coaching philosophy is an issue, and at some point you have to let players play.

Great point.I prefer 1-2 turnovers in a game if it means well more production on offense like yesterday.A game with only 9 first down in the first 4 quarter is just awful.The offense need to play to win!

[86WARD]

I would really like to hear from the significant contingent of folks that were believers in a Trubisky Turnaround? What are your thoughts and reactions with a night to sleep on it?

And I am not being a jerk - at all. I am looking for some positive perspective on the QB play. Hoping you all saw some stuff that I didn't and can create a hopeful picture!

I wasn’t really a supporter but wasn’t really a hater. I’m more of a Canada hater.

However, some of the positives I saw from Trubisky and this is all contingent I. The naked eye…could all change with the reviews of the film…

• Saw several times where he made a good decision to NOT throw the ball to force it and pulled it down and run.

• Was nice to see someone able to move the pocket.

• Saw a couple attempts at back shoulder throws…which didn’t really workout but that could be timing and gelling with the receivers.

• At times he seems like he knows what to do but came out with a bad throw. So mentally, maybe he’s there?

Like I’ve said many times…I really want to see what he may have missed or maybe he didn’t miss much…I don’t know. There were plenty of negatives and some stuff I saw he missed, like checkdown and some Pickens routes…but maybe they weren’t the primary receiver and the primary was “open”? I don’t know.

I’m just not a fan of the whole offense right now. From top to bottom there’s too much wrong to blame on one thing.

[pepsyman1]

I wasn’t really a supporter but wasn’t really a hater. I’m more of a Canada hater.

However, some of the positives I saw from Trubisky and this is all contingent I. The naked eye…could all change with the reviews of the film…

• Saw several times where he made a good decision to NOT throw the ball to force it and pulled it down and run.

• Was nice to see someone able to move the pocket.

• Saw a couple attempts at back shoulder throws…which didn’t really workout but that could be timing and gelling with the receivers.

• At times he seems like he knows what to do but came out with a bad throw. So mentally, maybe he’s there?

Like I’ve said many times…I really want to see what he may have missed or maybe he didn’t miss much…I don’t know. There were plenty of negatives and some stuff I saw he missed, like checkdown and some Pickens routes…but maybe they weren’t the primary receiver and the primary was “open”? I don’t know.

I’m just not a fan of the whole offense right now. From top to bottom there’s too much wrong to blame on one thing.

I think this was well stated. I saw a couple of throws that were really bad. Claypool bailed him out with a great one handed catch to a throw that was behind him (did he break in and Mitch thought we was gonna sit?). Out pattern to Pickens on the left sideline that was way wide. Saw a couple of great throws - the miss to Boykin down the sideline was a great throw, Boykin slowed down for a second and then stopped running to try to stretch out for the ball...if he just keeps running it's dead on. The flea flicker throw was mostly arm because he had defenders closing on him and he was already 15 yards behind the LOS but was a good throw.

He does a good job with screen passes. He makes sure to look elsewhere first and then come back to the screen and has good touch. The touchdown play to Najee was a good play action fake to Watt, then he looked center of the end zone first and then dropped it in nicely to Najee.

I think there were multiple times he was simply being careful.(too careful?) The corner of the end zone incomplete to Muuth...there was a small window where he was open as he boxed the defender out but it was only momentary and the defender adjusted. Mitch looked center of the end zone first when he looked toward Pat it was too late to squeeze it in so he played it safe and tossed it high and outside, the defender did actually tip it as well. Later when they had the ball deep in their own end in the 2nd quarter, the 3rd down play that Mitch ended up running, that wasn't what he wanted to do but Watt and Claypool almost ran straight into each other over the middle which screwed up the entire play so he tucked it an ran.

As it got later into the game the play calling got more conservative and you guys look and let me know if you saw the same thing....any time they went with 4 or 5 receivers, the receivers near the center of the field all ran to a spot and stopped like they expected to be in a gap in a zone but they were fully covered and didn't look to move from those spots. Plays like that didn't happen often, most of the time I didn't see any patterns down field. I saw lots of plays with no receiver routes inside the hashmarks. I think 86 and I have a similar outlook on what we're seeing out of Canada. I really didn't see any play calls designed to take advantage of Mitch's mobility (maybe the first play of the game where he rolled left and threw the shuffle pass, but it was a lame call..lol). I saw exactly the same types of play calls as we had last year.

I'll agree with what others have said that are open to giving Mitch the shot...turn him loose. He's comfortable throwing on the run but I saw nothing designed to do that yesterday. I get that plenty of people aren't confident in Mitch, but Canada GOT what he supposedly wanted, is he gonna attempt to do anything with it?

[BlackAndGold]

The entire offense besides the receivers need a reboot.

[Mojouw]

MOJOUW random thought for the day:

This and 2021 was actually intentional. Canada is limiting turnovers over EVERYTHING else. Purposely pared the offense down to screens and short YAC hopeful throws with random sideline go balls.

Make zero mistakes on offense and hope the defense can make 20 points hold up.

Eke out fugly wins and show up in the playoffs. Call it successful.

Seriously. It is an explanation that fits the available evidence.

We know from his various college days that Canada is at least aware the middle of the field exists. But that’s where INTS happen so it’s a total no go zone.

Anyways random rant.

[DuckHodges]

The entire offense besides the receivers need a reboot.

Just the OL. And who knows maybe not, they may just need time to gel. The o-line didn’t look good by any means but it was much better than what I’ve seen in the preseason. Improvement gives me room for optimism.

RBs I’m good with Najee and Warren.

Fryermouth and Gentry are a very good TE tandem

QB, eh. We know how I feel about that lol

[tube517]

MOJOUW random thought for the day:

This and 2021 was actually intentional. Canada is limiting turnovers over EVERYTHING else. Purposely pared the offense down to screens and short YAC hopeful throws with random sideline go balls.

Make zero mistakes on offense and hope the defense can make 20 points hold up.

Eke out fugly wins and show up in the playoffs. Call it successful.

Seriously. It is an explanation that fits the available evidence.

We know from his various college days that Canada is at least aware the middle of the field exists. But that’s where INTS happen so it’s a total no go zone.

Anyways random rant.

Makes sense. Don't throw over the middle. Let the defense play closer and your offense sputters. Yay Canada!

[polamalubeast]

The difference between our offensive system and the one like the chiefs are so different...Just ask to JuJu...

[Mojouw]

Makes sense. Don't throw over the middle. Let the defense play closer and your offense sputters. Yay Canada!

YAY!!! Canada! Canada!!

The really annoying thing is the Steelers seemed to have understood the assignment when they let Fichnter go. Motion, jet sweeps, QB roll-outs, play-action etc. All of these have helped offenses across the league achieve success. But then they face-planted and seemed to have gotten a guy who implements all the window-dressing with no substance behind it.

It is like watching someone attempt to run a version of the Shanny-McVay system that has been sweeping across the league like the Mongol hordes with no actual understanding of why it works or what it is built on. Just that it features jet sweeps and several TEs.

In contrast, got to watch the Vikings new coach utterly bamboozle the Packers defense because he knows why the system works and what is designed to do.

[polamalubeast]

[Rotorhead]

This last post shows all I need to see . . .

[DuckHodges]

i guess using the middle of the field is only allowed during the preseason lol

[86WARD]

For F-sake…is this for real??

[polamalubeast]

For F-sake…is this for real??

According to next gen stats...yes!

[Edman]

Second verse same as the first.

An OC who cannot call anything but out routes, and an extremely limited Quarterback who can't make the plays when they're there.

Don't count on things getting much better any time soon.

[pepsyman1]

MOJOUW random thought for the day:

This and 2021 was actually intentional. Canada is limiting turnovers over EVERYTHING else. Purposely pared the offense down to screens and short YAC hopeful throws with random sideline go balls.

Make zero mistakes on offense and hope the defense can make 20 points hold up.

Eke out fugly wins and show up in the playoffs. Call it successful.

Seriously. It is an explanation that fits the available evidence.

We know from his various college days that Canada is at least aware the middle of the field exists. But that’s where INTS happen so it’s a total no go zone.

Anyways random rant.

Possible, but the team can't survive that way...regardless of the QB choice. If they were gonna line Najee up 8 yards behind the line of scrimmage and put a fullback in front of him for a big percentage of their plays, MAYBE you could survive on that approach. (it would open up play action opportunities), but it's hard to believe after everything we've been told about this dynamic offense that Ben couldn't be expected to run that the choice would be to turtle it down and just depend on the D

[pepsyman1]

I knew I wasn't crazy...this was the same thing I saw the last game I went too. Maybe Canada thinks the middle of the field is LAVA. LOL

[pepsyman1]

I can't even imagine what Canada is trying to accomplish with this kind of play design and play calling. The concept totally escapes me (not that I'm any type of football guru) but anytime I've seen a really successful offensive coach you can watch their play calls over the course of a few games and get an idea of what they are trying to accomplish....with this, I've simply got no idea

[pepsyman1]

YAY!!! Canada! Canada!!

In contrast, got to watch the Vikings new coach utterly bamboozle the Packers defense because he knows why the system works and what is designed to do.

Your last statement brings up a football philosophy question. At any one time in the league there is a small handful of QB's that really elevate the team around them. In general, good QB's make the offense around them look good even when they might have questionable talent. There are a lot of people that don't think much of Kirk Cousins, but look how good the coach and system made him look yesterday. A QB is ALWAYS gonna be top position for a team but if you've got a really top notch offensive coach, does that give you a bigger margin on how good the QB has to be? Can the coach elevate the QB to be THE guy?

[Mojouw]

There were at least two other plays where mighty might Gunner was asked to seal the edge on a run play. That’s just dumb.

[Mojouw]

Your last statement brings up a football philosophy question. At any one time in the league there is a small handful of QB's that really elevate the team around them. In general, good QB's make the offense around them look good even when they might have questionable talent. There are a lot of people that don't think much of Kirk Cousins, but look how good the coach and system made him look yesterday. A QB is ALWAYS gonna be top position for a team but if you've got a really top notch offensive coach, does that give you a bigger margin on how good the QB has to be? Can the coach elevate the QB to be THE guy?

Shannahan with Garappolo and McVay with Goff and Reid with Smith would say “Yes…but”.

Yeah the system can elevate a just a guy to a dude but not enough to be the man and win a SB?

It made sense in my head.

[Mojouw]

I knew I wasn't crazy...this was the same thing I saw the last game I went too. Maybe Canada thinks the middle of the field is LAVA. LOL

All too true. Interesting to see where the other receivers were.

[Edman]

Possible, but the team can't survive that way...regardless of the QB choice. If they were gonna line Najee up 8 yards behind the line of scrimmage and put a fullback in front of him for a big percentage of their plays, MAYBE you could survive on that approach. (it would open up play action opportunities), but it's hard to believe after everything we've been told about this dynamic offense that Ben couldn't be expected to run that the choice would be to turtle it down and just depend on the D.

Mojouw brings up a very interesting point. Maybe the Offense is meant to be this way. The short passes are on purpose and the offense is designed to put together long drives and possess the ball. With the Defense built the way it is, it's a fine compliment to it.

But any offense is only as effective as its quarterback. No matter who is coach, or who your playmakers are, or how well-built your Offensive Line is. And let's be real the Steelers Quarterback play has been below the league line for quite a while now and this year looks no different. Trubisky can actually move around. We can fire Canada and call for his head all he wants and question his playcalling and play design, but there were still plays to be made on the field Sunday that weren't.

Suppose we call more in routes for Johnson, fine. It's up to Trubisky to see the play and get the ball to him. The most perfect playcall ever doesn't matter if your Qb has shit mechanics and poor field vision and throwing behind his recievers or too high or way off target. Ben had the advantage of taking over playcalling to overcome his limitations, but I doubt Trubisky will.

[pepsyman1]

Mojouw brings up a very interesting point. Maybe the Offense is meant to be this way. The short passes are on purpose and the offense is designed to put together long drives and possess the ball. With the Defense built the way it is, it's a fine compliment to it.

But any offense is only as effective as its quarterback. No matter who is coach, or who your playmakers are, or how well-built your Offensive Line is. And let's be real the Steelers Quarterback play has been below the league line for quite a while now and this year looks no different. Trubisky can actually move around. We can fire Canada and call for his head all he wants and question his playcalling and play design, but there were still plays to be made on the field Sunday that weren't.

Suppose we call more in routes for Johnson, fine. It's up to Trubisky to see the play and get the ball to him. The most perfect playcall ever doesn't matter if your Qb has shit mechanics and poor field vision and throwing behind his recievers or too high or way off target. Ben had the advantage of taking over playcalling to overcome his limitations, but I doubt Trubisky will.

I know you're not a Rothlisberger fan, but I think your assessment of our QB play the last couple of years is off base. We all watched how the games played out last year. Every game was 3 quarters of crap and then magically in the 4th quarter the team would wake up. 8 of our 9 wins required coming from behind. The 4th quarter regularly became when Ben would start calling the plays and his stats very clearly reflected it:

132/189 throws (69.8% complete), 7.3 YPA, 1375 yards, 12 TD/1 INT and a QB rating of 109.6. Those are Ben's 4th qtr stats last year. If you think that those numbers are below the line then you must expect Tom Brady is the average. I really don't know what more you can ask for.

[86WARD]

I knew I wasn't crazy...this was the same thing I saw the last game I went too. Maybe Canada thinks the middle of the field is LAVA. LOL

This is what I have been saying since last year. That’s just a poorly executed and designed play. Maybe the play design isn’t bad but the personnel that is put in to run that play just doesn’t work. Gentry and Pickens should be out there where Freiermuth and Gunner are for that play to even have a chance.

[86WARD]

Mojouw brings up a very interesting point. Maybe the Offense is meant to be this way. The short passes are on purpose and the offense is designed to put together long drives and possess the ball. With the Defense built the way it is, it's a fine compliment to it.

But any offense is only as effective as its quarterback. No matter who is coach, or who your playmakers are, or how well-built your Offensive Line is. And let's be real the Steelers Quarterback play has been below the league line for quite a while now and this year looks no different. Trubisky can actually move around. We can fire Canada and call for his head all he wants and question his playcalling and play design, but there were still plays to be made on the field Sunday that weren't.

Suppose we call more in routes for Johnson, fine. It's up to Trubisky to see the play and get the ball to him. The most perfect playcall ever doesn't matter if your Qb has shit mechanics and poor field vision and throwing behind his recievers or too high or way off target. Ben had the advantage of taking over playcalling to overcome his limitations, but I doubt Trubisky will.

So you purposely take away 50% of the field and add two more defenders. So now you’re playing 11 on 13 on a split (far split) field? I’d need way more explanation for that to even come into the realm of possibly making a little bit of sense.