BEEEEEEEENNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!Originally Posted by stillers4me
BEEEEEEEENNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!
Finally listened to the whole episode…it was the funniest episode.
some real gems on Canada in the latest pod cast , @ the 32:40 mark . Ben said he did not work close with Canada . like he did with all the other OC
we must never forget tell everyone you know New England cheated and might be back at it Edit 1-21-15 there back Edit #2__12-8-19 here we go again Edit #3__ 5-25-23 it never ends
I’ll listen to that one today.
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Yep and it's all over the internet. He said Canada didn't work directly with Ben. It was through the QB coach, Sullivan, in Ben's last year.
My question is Haley and Ben. Didn't Ben work directly w/Fichtner? I dunno I'm just a dumb football fan.
Likely it's been the same w/Kenny. Hopefully Sully and Kenny eliminate all those dumb plays that the opposition knows easily.
I finally watched the entire “Tomlin” episode. Not really a Tomlinism the entire show. What I completely cracked up about was when Harrison ran back the TD and was lying on the ground in the endzone and Tomlin thought he was hurt, Harrison looked up and said, “I’m tired boss”.
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Ben worked directly with all the OC's except Canada. Almost all NFL quarterbacks that I know of have direct access to the OC. It's Canada's offense. He is the only that can explain his concepts and all the nuances and adjustment within the system properly and completely. Unless of course, he didn't have any.
Canada was a disaster. For a guy that never did it in the NFL before to just be a dictator, not take any input from coaches or players, while not even working with the quarterback is pure lunacy. How much of an arrogant ass do you have to be to continue to on like that as the offense kept getting worse and worse. He didn't even consider that he was part of the problem. We've seen guys like this before, and they always go down in flames.
That's just awful coaching. Whoever allowed the Canada situation to go on that long has to get some shade. We may never know how it all went down, but either Mr. Rooney wouldn't allow Tomlin to fire Canada sooner, or Mike Tomlin is the one that stuck with him way too long.
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I’ve heard Ben say he had his guys on the sidelines. Depending on who he wanted to talk to about whatever, he just went to them. Whether OC, other QBs, QB coaches, other players. He had his guys for specific conversations. I believe Ben was so far beyond Canada, he never missed him.
That’s opposite of what Ben said. He said that the QB Coach is the in between for the QB and OC. If there’s a complaint about the QB, the OC tells the QBC and QBC tells the QB and vice versa.Ben worked directly with all the OC's except Canada. Almost all NFL quarterbacks that I know of have direct access to the OC. It's Canada's offense. He is the only that can explain his concepts and all the nuances and adjustment within the system properly and completely. Unless of course, he didn't have any.
Canada was a disaster. For a guy that never did it in the NFL before to just be a dictator, not take any input from coaches or players, while not even working with the quarterback is pure lunacy. How much of an arrogant ass do you have to be to continue to on like that as the offense kept getting worse and worse. He didn't even consider that he was part of the problem. We've seen guys like this before, and they always go down in flames.
That's just awful coaching. Whoever allowed the Canada situation to go on that long has to get some shade. We may never know how it all went down, but either Mr. Rooney wouldn't allow Tomlin to fire Canada sooner, or Mike Tomlin is the one that stuck with him way too long.
There was a lot of good material in that episode…
good gems . even throwing the Pats under the bus with the fire alarm in the hotels .
we must never forget tell everyone you know New England cheated and might be back at it Edit 1-21-15 there back Edit #2__12-8-19 here we go again Edit #3__ 5-25-23 it never ends
Yeah that was funny.
His podcast is really entertaining.
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Ben said he always worked directly with every OC except Matt Canada. Of course he always still worked with the QB coach, but there is always direct interaction with OC's.....not with Matt Canada.
https://www.si.com/nfl/steelers/news...coach%20me.%22
Ben has yes. I was saying Ben said more in general, most QBs go through the “proper channels”. Ben was different than the norm…
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I'm pretty sure that most franchise QBs work directly with the OC... a lot.
I find it funny that the "Fire Canada" Tour went to Pens games and other cities and sports altogether. Saw a fire canada sign at a soccer match somewhere. That man will NEVER see another job in the NFL....unless the Browns pick him up as HC. He is the definition of a "Laughing Stock".
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Yes, every quarterback works directly with the quarterbacks coach, but most OC's have a much more direct, hands-on relationship with the QB. Canada didn't want any interaction between them. That's how Canada wanted to operate.
I'm saying that most OC's have more interaction with the QB than Canada did. You just don't hear of an OC that wants nothing to do with the QB running his offensive system. And of course the OC is also explaining to the QB coach how he wants things done as well. Then the QB and the QB coach are on the same page with what the OC wants done and how he wants a play run.
Canada didn't want to talk to the QB? No direct contact? WTF?
Can you imagine being Sullivan, being directed by Canada to tell Pickett to do things in a way that he knows is wrong? Having to tell the quarterback that Canada doesn't want you making that read on this play or limiting where you can throw the ball. We won't take that risk with that route here. We're going to give you half a field to read. If the first read isn't there, hit the check down. It's nonsense, and Sullivan probably knew it and so did Kenny.
Kenny must have been asking Sullivan if Canada was kidding with these lame restrictions. That has to be so frustrating having to play in that system with no input and limitations on what you could do, knowing it would fail.
You've been saying these things for some time now and I just wasn't able to believe it. It is now pretty clear that I was just off base with that reaction.
All I can figure is that Canada just wasn't able to get out a of a college mode. Where he felt the best path was to make it so simply that some 18 year old fresh out of high school football could come in and run the offense. I am struggling to come up with a rationale. But everyone has one. Even when people are doing a poor job, they have reasons and plans for why they are approaching things in a particular manner.
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A little bit of knowledge and experience helps me see some of this stuff. To the casual observer that doesn't recognize issues, everything looks like a normal NFL offense. I get it. There are experts that watch this stuff that still thought Pickett was the biggest problem. And don't get me wrong, like I told you in the game day thread.....This is only one game. Kenny Pickett has a lot more work to do. But anyone can see that he played the Bengals game with so much more freedom and confidence that everyone can see it. The way the entire field was used. At least he now has a chance to succeed.
You could see Kenny in preseason looking off safeties and his eyes going where they were supposed to go. Why did Pickett doing those things stop so suddenly? It seemed clear to me that he was being limited by his coaches. I didn't know who for sure. Tomlin must have had some input, but this was Canada's offense. So much of what was happening on the field didn't make sense. So many things just looked wrong and so much of it didn't work.
Now let's hope that we continue to see Pickett improve and we see the offense become a consistent threat and a unit that begins to score more points. If that happens and the defense gets as healthy as possible going into the home stretch, much more becomes possible for this team.
Yes. Imageee with that. We are on the same page there.
It had to be hard on Sullivan. There’s only one reason why Kenny can do some things one way and the. Not be able to do it later…he’s being told/coached to do that. He was being coached to only look to one side or to only look at certain progression and get the ball out. Ben was doing the same thing…although Ben would go off script because he was only a hall of fame qb. Canada was stifling and I find it shocking that he was here for the amount of time he was. His offense started under Fichtner and that was a disaster from the get go.
Most QB's in general probably work with the OC a lot. The QB is the extension of the OC on the field IMO. So when a play goes bad or an offensive series goes bad, the OC doesnt goto the star receiver or veteran O lineman to talk it thru, so that he can relay the proper information to the rest of the offense.
If there wasnt great communication between Canada and his QB's, whether it be Ben, Trubisky or Pickett....that should have been a red flag.
According to Ben, most QBs go through the QB Coach to the OC and vice versa.
I guess I should listen to his podcast to understand the point of reference.
At the highschool level and lower, every OC is communicating with his QB at install period and during the game, with regards to reads of the defense, fronts and counts, audibles and protection calls if that is on the QB. Film that I have seen at clinics of college coaches seems to follow the same protocol. If the Oc doesnt like the timing or needs to coach up a correction, I havent seen them talk to the QB coach, so that he can communicate to the QB.
What does a QB coach do that’s different from the OC? Coach specific mechanics like throwing motion, footwork? Sounds like having a tutor for your math class. In that case maybe they’re more suitable for younger QB’s if anything rather than vets… Then there’s your assistant OC…
So it wasn't just that Canada was calling bad plays, he was also telling Kenny not to read the defenses and just throw the pass that was called??? Wow.
All season I've wondered why Kenny's play looked so different from last year. Could this be the reason? I actually hope it is, because this has now been fixed.
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I don't think anyone has come out and said it but if you put a bunch of things we know together, that's how it appears it was operating. It's pretty obvious when Tomlin was saying that audibles and checks weren't things that Kenny Pickett would be doing. That stuff would be coming from the sideline. You could also see that in preseason, Kenny was moving safeties with his eyes and throwing to the entire field. That all stopped once they got to the regular season. You could see that often times it looked like Pickett had one read or was only working one side of the field.
The other huge thing we learned is that Canada didn't want to talk to his quarterback directly. I've never heard of that before. There is so much that goes into building an offense and so much of the offense should include a huge amount of nuance and detail about things within each play. How much depth do you get here. If we get this look, we need to run this route this way by pressing closer to the hash. Things like that.
If Canada didn't have details like that built into this offense, it explains why so many of his plays have been so bad besides the fact that the design of much of it was flawed. It only makes everything harder.
If Canada did have details built into his offense but was never able to coach that to his quarterback or quarterback coach, then he can't coach...which seems to be obvious at this point.
If he did have useful information about his struggling offense and his struggling QB and he wasn't even willing to talk to him directly, that's just criminally stupid and irresponsible. Acting like a dictator is fine when everything is going great. When it's not, everything is on the person responsible for the offense. That was Canada.
You could see that now Canada is gone, the plays are coming in much more quickly. That means Pickett has much more time to call the play, look over the defense and process the information, and any checks and audibles have more time to get done without rushing the play and having the play clock count down to nothing so you are rushing the snap. That stuff is huge for a quarterback still learning.
No matter how you look at it, Canada was a disaster on multiple fronts.
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