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Thread: NFL's best players ever at every offensive position

  1. #31
    Senior Member Array title="Mojouw has a reputation beyond repute"> Mojouw's Avatar

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    Re: NFL's best players ever at every offensive position

    Quote Originally Posted by steelreserve View Post
    I think it would probably narrow a hell of a lot. Like, there was not a lot wrong with Jim Brown by today's standards, but there was a lot wrong with defenses by today's standards, like really obvious things. You improve the competition a lot and Jim Brown a little, and I don't think you can project that he's going to be steamrolling everyone and winning rushing titles by 700 yards. Maybe he'd lead the league in rushing. Or maybe he'd get his shit ruined by 330-pound fat guys and be banged up all the time.

    How about this - take the world's best swordfighter from today and put him in 12th-century England, and he'd probably get his shit ruined too because of the difference in eras. Not because he's "bad" at swordfighting, but because there were 500 times more people doing it, and they took it fucking seriously. Could he be the best if he trained the same as them? Maybe, but the odds would be like 1 in 500. That's just how that shit works.
    RBs have been basically the same size the start of football. Bronco Nagurski was 6’3” 235. Thorpe was 6’1” and like 200. Jim Brown was 6’2” 230 something or other. LT was like 5’10” 210 or something.

    But their strength, conditioning, explosion, technique, and scheme have scaled along with the supersized defenses.

    If you could time machine 18 year old Jim Brown and he hit a major D1 program and then the NFL in contemporary times, why wouldn’t he just be stupid dominant?

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    NFL's Dirtiest Player Array title="86WARD has a reputation beyond repute"> 86WARD's Avatar

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    Re: NFL's best players ever at every offensive position

    Arguments for Sanders:

    • Brown had two HOF linemen blocking for him. Sanders…not remotely close to that.

    • Brown had a HOF running partner to help beat down defenses. Sanders…not remotely close. Sanders was pretty much alone.

    • Brown had a HOF Receiver, Warfield. Sanders had Herman Moore part of the time but he wasn’t Hall of Fame talent. He was very effective for 3-4 seasons after that he was “pedestrian”.

    • Sanders carried more, fumbled less.

    • Sanders took much more of a beating and was able to put up those numbers. Very rarely did he rest.

    Bottom line is that Brown had more help than Sanders, a lighter work load than Sanders and an easier time than Sanders.

    Both are great backs 1-2 in my opinion. I’d take Sanders over Brown but that’s personal preference. Can’t fault anyone for doing the opposite.

    The best way to compare them may actually compare them to their respective leagues to see where they rank and that may give a better idea of where they land. Yards, YPC, YPA, TDs, etc…


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    Senior Member Array title="willy has a reputation beyond repute"> willy's Avatar

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    Re: NFL's best players ever at every offensive position

    Quote Originally Posted by polamalubeast View Post
    The only 2 running back to have a argument over Jim Brown are Walter Payton and Barry Sanders
    IMO only 1 RB can say he was better than Brown but he didn't last long enough to be considered. Bo Jackson.

  4. #34
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    Re: NFL's best players ever at every offensive position

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post

    If you could time machine 18 year old Jim Brown and he hit a major D1 program and then the NFL in contemporary times, why wouldn’t he just be stupid dominant?
    It may not work like that. Maybe he does all that lifting and conditioning to come up to times and doesn’t carry it well. Maybe it causes injury or slows him down. They are two waaaaaaaaaaay different eras of football. Maybe he doesn’t even play at a major D1 program. Maybe he lands at Wisconsin and sits behind Alan Ameche or behind some other guy and never becomes “Jim Brown”…


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    Re: NFL's best players ever at every offensive position

    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
    It may not work like that. Maybe he does all that lifting and conditioning to come up to times and doesn’t carry it well. Maybe it causes injury or slows him down. They are two waaaaaaaaaaay different eras of football. Maybe he doesn’t even play at a major D1 program. Maybe he lands at Wisconsin and sits behind Alan Ameche or behind some other guy and never becomes “Jim Brown”…
    Sure. But we’re imagining wild scenarios. I see Brown being crazy dominant in any era.

    Another likely unpopular take is that Sayers belongs in the conversation.

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    Re: NFL's best players ever at every offensive position

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Sure. But we’re imagining wild scenarios. I see Brown being crazy dominant in any era.

    Another likely unpopular take is that Sayers belongs in the conversation.
    Do you think Sanders would be dominant in any era? Here's a thought: I don't see Jerry Rice being dominant in any era (I think he could be manhandled in ome other eras) but I do see John Stallworth being able to play at a very high level in any era.


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    Re: NFL's best players ever at every offensive position

    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
    Do you think Sanders would be dominant in any era? Here's a thought: I don't see Jerry Rice being dominant in any era (I think he could be manhandled in ome other eras) but I do see John Stallworth being able to play at a very high level in any era.
    I think both Rice and Sanders would be dominant in any time.

    Don’t know enough about Stallworth.

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    Re: NFL's best players ever at every offensive position

    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
    Arguments for Sanders:

    • Brown had two HOF linemen blocking for him. Sanders…not remotely close to that.

    • Brown had a HOF running partner to help beat down defenses. Sanders…not remotely close. Sanders was pretty much alone.

    • Brown had a HOF Receiver, Warfield. Sanders had Herman Moore part of the time but he wasn’t Hall of Fame talent. He was very effective for 3-4 seasons after that he was “pedestrian”.

    • Sanders carried more, fumbled less.

    • Sanders took much more of a beating and was able to put up those numbers. Very rarely did he rest.

    Bottom line is that Brown had more help than Sanders, a lighter work load than Sanders and an easier time than Sanders.

    Both are great backs 1-2 in my opinion. I’d take Sanders over Brown but that’s personal preference. Can’t fault anyone for doing the opposite.

    The best way to compare them may actually compare them to their respective leagues to see where they rank and that may give a better idea of where they land. Yards, YPC, YPA, TDs, etc…

    I don't know how you can say Sanders had an easier time than Brown? They swarmed all over Brown play after play, game after game, and Brown didn't miss a game in 9 years in the NFL.

    He (Paul Brown) was being criticized for using Jim Brown as a runner too often. His reply was, “When you have a big gun, you shoot it.”

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    Re: NFL's best players ever at every offensive position

    Quote Originally Posted by willy View Post
    I don't know how you can say Sanders had an easier time than Brown? They swarmed all over Brown play after play, game after game, and Brown didn't miss a game in 9 years in the NFL.

    He (Paul Brown) was being criticized for using Jim Brown as a runner too often. His reply was, “When you have a big gun, you shoot it.”
    Brown had two hall of fame blockers and a hall of fame RB to relieve him and a hall of fame WR on the outside. Sanders had none of that. Teams would swarm sanders as well and sanders had longevity.


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    Re: NFL's best players ever at every offensive position

    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
    Brown had two hall of fame blockers and a hall of fame RB to relieve him and a hall of fame WR on the outside. Sanders had none of that. Teams would swarm sanders as well and sanders had longevity.
    Ok, well, I'm certainly not going to knock Sanders. He was an amazing running back.

  11. #41
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    Re: NFL's best players ever at every offensive position

    Quote Originally Posted by willy View Post
    Ok, well, I'm certainly not going to knock Sanders. He was an amazing running back.
    I just prefer Sanders and there are arguments in his favor. Like I said, you really can’t go wrong either way.


  12. #42
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    Re: NFL's best players ever at every offensive position

    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
    I just prefer Sanders and there are arguments in his favor. Like I said, you really can’t go wrong either way.
    I loved Sanders. But he had too many stops for no gain or loss for me to put him as the GOAT. He's definitely Mt. Rushmore, which I always find a more interesting conversation than the GOAT anyway.

  13. #43
    Senior Member Array title="teegre has a reputation beyond repute"> teegre's Avatar

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    Re: NFL's best players ever at every offensive position

    Very interesting points. I’ll add a few things:

    It’s more than just size & strength. There are plenty of guys who have elite measurables, but simply cannot play. The way that Barry moved translates to ANY era. Jim Brown’s ability to withstand pain, to break opponents’ wills, his will to win (plus his vision) is what made him elite… and translates to ANY era.

    Two examples.

    In the early 90s, Joe Greene was in his forties and 100 pounds overweight when he was coaching the Eagles. Mike Golic has told the story about how the players weren’t doing a drill correctly, so Greee got pissed and lined up across from them and knocked one after another on their asses. Greene told them that I’d even ONE of them could beat him, they’d get the rest of the day off. None of them could. As Golic said: He dominated guys twenty years younger than him… and could only imagine how good Joe Greene was in his prime.

    At 59, Satchel Paige pitched three innings of shutout baseball.

    SUMMATION:
    If you have “it”, you have “it”.

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