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Thread: Trade Speculation

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    Senior Member Array title="Born2Steel has a reputation beyond repute"> Born2Steel's Avatar

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    Trade Speculation

    There is an article on the Home Page of this forum that speculates about trading DJ to the Cowboys for a 2nd round pick. I find this to be a very interesting subject for conversation actually. The Steelers are rich at WR supposedly, and trading for a 2nd round pick should help with 'rebuilding' more than a re-sign would. I am sitting here today thinking I make this trade with no regrets tomorrow. But I would love to hear any of your thoughts.

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    Senior Member Array title="DesertSteel has a reputation beyond repute"> DesertSteel's Avatar

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    Re: Trade Speculation

    A 2 is not adequate compensation for an ascending top 20 WR who's just entered his prime. Maybe a 2 and a player. That said, other than a 1, I keep DJ and roll the dice.

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    Re: Trade Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by DesertSteel View Post
    A 2 is not adequate compensation for an ascending top 20 WR who's just entered his prime. Maybe a 2 and a player. That said, other than a 1, I keep DJ and roll the dice.
    Just considering the amount it will take to re-sign him I would take a 2 in return rather than let him walk for free. If the plan is to re-sign then this is a moot discussion anyway. I don't think that is the plan though.

    A 2nd and Tony Pollard would be very nice.

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    Re: Trade Speculation

    I’d take a 2 in a heartbeat. Without Ben dumping 2 yard passes to him Im seeing a drop in receptions and being disgruntled during season. Too many other guys who will get touches plus a QB who can keep play alive opposed to getting ball out of hands in a second. I do think he’ll make bigger plays though but not enough to keep him happy.

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    Re: Trade Speculation

    I’d take it.

    My thoughts are explained (in more detail) here:
    http://www.steelersuniverse.com/foru...l=1#post802728

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    Re: Trade Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    I’d take it.

    My thoughts are explained (in more detail) here:
    http://www.steelersuniverse.com/foru...l=1#post802728
    I'd take it too. And exactly for the reasons you point out.

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    Re: Trade Speculation

    We just drafted two receivers, and we're probably going to have to let either DJ or Claypool walk due to salary, can't see us busting the bank for both. So we might as well get something in return if we can.

    In my honest opinion, DJ is good but far from irreplaceable. A second-round pick can get you a hell of a player, so it's not like we'd be dumping him for late-round trash. Maybe we could find our DE for the next 10 years.
    See you Space Cowboy ...

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    NFL's Dirtiest Player Array title="86WARD has a reputation beyond repute"> 86WARD's Avatar

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    Trade Speculation

    That’s a nonsense article. Also says DJ is disgruntled…

    Also lists Anthony Miller as a factor. Lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

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    Re: Trade Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
    That’s a nonsense article. Also says DJ is disgruntled…

    Also lists Anthony Miller as a factor. Lol.
    This was the article....https://www.si.com/nfl/steelers/news...de-speculation

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    Re: Trade Speculation

    his concentration comes and goes and he's a lazy route runner - he's got loads of talent but those two issues shouldn't be ignored. And he's a me guy (he's already publicly thrown Canada under the bus and is complaining about his contract), he's not even a bonafide star yet. i would take a 2 also.

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    Re: Trade Speculation

    I'd take the 2nd and be happy going into next year's draft. The Steelers don't typically pay WRs top dollar, McLaurin is getting something like 23 million per year with similar stats to Johnson so that is probably his starting point for negotiations. If someone would give the Steelers a 2nd for Johnson they have to consider taking the trade because its doubtful that they sign him next year to an even bigger contract. If he walks, they'll probably get a 3rd round comp pick which is essentially an early round 4 pick. Take the 2nd, move on and hope the newly drafted WRs turn out to be really good.

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    Senior Member Array title="DesertSteel has a reputation beyond repute"> DesertSteel's Avatar

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    Re: Trade Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by Born2Steel View Post
    Just considering the amount it will take to re-sign him I would take a 2 in return rather than let him walk for free. If the plan is to re-sign then this is a moot discussion anyway. I don't think that is the plan though.

    A 2nd and Tony Pollard would be very nice.
    What did Green Bay do? They let Adams play out his deal and then franchised and traded him. Why can't the Steelers do the same (for a lesser haul than Adams, of course)?

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    Senior Member Array title="Orion has a reputation beyond repute"> Orion's Avatar

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    Re: Trade Speculation

    if thats all i could get was a 2nd i'd take it, but i would try to get a day 3 pick in addition. maybe a 2nd and a 5th. even a day 3 pick swap would be ok. a 2nd and a 5th for DJ and a 6th.

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    Re: Trade Speculation

    That's the trouble with WRs who have been starters by the end of their rookie contracts. They all think they're going to be a top-5 guy and expect to be paid accordingly. And since they're still young, they have the "potential" label attached, which means someone will offer them twice as much money as a veteran with the same production. All they need is a change of scenery, and they'll live right up to that huge contract, guys!

    There are exceptions, but it's not usually a great move to go all-in on a WR because "maybe" he'll be a star.
    See you Space Cowboy ...

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    Senior Member Array title="DesertSteel has a reputation beyond repute"> DesertSteel's Avatar

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    Re: Trade Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by steelreserve View Post
    That's the trouble with WRs who have been starters by the end of their rookie contracts. They all think they're going to be a top-5 guy and expect to be paid accordingly. And since they're still young, they have the "potential" label attached, which means someone will offer them twice as much money as a veteran with the same production. All they need is a change of scenery, and they'll live right up to that huge contract, guys!

    There are exceptions, but it's not usually a great move to go all-in on a WR because "maybe" he'll be a star.
    So far, their theory is proving to be correct!

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    Re: Trade Speculation

    Not sure if I'd be comfortable with trading Johnson. If you do that, our most experienced guy is Chase Claypool (who really has a tendency to not show up in big moments). There's a lot of talent there, but keep in mind we're starting a new QB. Add in banking on a couple rookie receivers with no NFL experience, could be a recipe for disaster.

    Also the front office for the Steelers is always in win-now mode, so I don't see them trading their best WR for more picks, unless he plain doesn't want to be around the team, but I haven't seen anything but speculation on that end.

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    Re: Trade Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Goodell View Post
    Not sure if I'd be comfortable with trading Johnson. If you do that, our most experienced guy is Chase Claypool (who really has a tendency to not show up in big moments). There's a lot of talent there, but keep in mind we're starting a new QB. Add in banking on a couple rookie receivers with no NFL experience, could be a recipe for disaster.

    Also the front office for the Steelers is always in win-now mode, so I don't see them trading their best WR for more picks, unless he plain doesn't want to be around the team, but I haven't seen anything but speculation on that end.
    we will probably end up getting the same comp pick if he leaves in free agency as the pick we'd get for trading him now.

    might as well keep and play him for another year.

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    Senior Member Array title="DesertSteel has a reputation beyond repute"> DesertSteel's Avatar

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    Re: Trade Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by hawaiiansteeler View Post
    we will probably end up getting the same comp pick if he leaves in free agency as the pick we'd get for trading him now.

    might as well keep and play him for another year.
    Right. Even if the comp is a 3, a full year of DJ + a 3 => a 2.

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    Senior Member Array title="Orion has a reputation beyond repute"> Orion's Avatar

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    Re: Trade Speculation

    its really not even a 3rd. more like an early 4th. there's a huge gap between the 1st pick of the 3rd and a comp pick. even a dallas 2nd isnt likely going to be as valuable as say a texans 2nd or a panthers or detroit second.
    a cowboys 2nd would probably be about be 40-45 picks higher than a comp pick. thats a lot of player options to miss out on.

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    Re: Trade Speculation

    I would take the trade and receive the Cowboy's 2nd (Or as Teegre posted in a different thread, the Bears 2nd). I would go into the season planning on Pickens playing the X, Claypool and Austin both interchangeable at the Z and slot. We still have Boykin, Gunner, and Miller who all have NFL experience. I am not afraid of having a void in the WR room.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by DesertSteel View Post
    What did Green Bay do? They let Adams play out his deal and then franchised and traded him. Why can't the Steelers do the same (for a lesser haul than Adams, of course)?
    A trade now vs a trade later? I can only speculate what the difference might be. A bird in hand is my immediate goto here. I have a healthy WR with trade value that was drafted in the 3rd that brings me a 2nd. At season's end maybe he doesn't have the same value is why I trade him now rather than later. None of this is real so the scenarios spin with endless results.

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    Senior Member Array title="dislocatedday has a reputation beyond repute"> dislocatedday's Avatar

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    Re: Trade Speculation

    I'd love to keep DJ, but not at the prices that WRs are signing contracts for currently in FA. I think the Steelers are better off letting other teams sink $20M+ into WRs who are not at the elite top 5 level. TJ and Minkah signing top of the market contracts I am all for......those guys are 3 and 2 time first team All Pros, and are unequivocally elite at their positions.

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    Senior Member Array title="Orion has a reputation beyond repute"> Orion's Avatar

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    Re: Trade Speculation

    if the steelers are probably going to lose DJ next year anyway , doesn't it make sense to get the youngsters as much work in this year as possible so they can hit the ground running next year with Pickens ? as much as i would like to be wrong i dont think they are a SB contender this year with trubisky or pickens, a playoff team maybe, but a serious contender ? nope.

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    Re: Trade Speculation

    My solution would be trade Claypool and pay DJ. You're not going to pay them both and Claypool will be in a contract year next season, so you would still be saving a few $ in trading him. I don't know if you could get a 2nd out of him, but surely a third.

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    Re: Trade Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    if the steelers are probably going to lose DJ next year anyway , doesn't it make sense to get the youngsters as much work in this year as possible so they can hit the ground running next year with Pickens ? as much as i would like to be wrong i dont think they are a SB contender this year with trubisky or pickens, a playoff team maybe, but a serious contender ? nope.
    This sounds like you are just getting into a vicious cycle of playing young guys and never winning.

    It doesn’t make any sense to go into a season with that thought. What if Pickens and Austin turn out to be as talented as Dri Archer? How do we know they didn’t draft JJ Artega-Whiteside and Jalen Reagor? Then your hanging Trubisky or Pickett out to dry with nothing but Freiermuth and whatever Claypool shows up…wasting another year or the defenses life giving players “reps”.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

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    Re: Trade Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
    This sounds like you are just getting into a vicious cycle of playing young guys and never winning.

    It doesn’t make any sense to go into a season with that thought. What if Pickens and Austin turn out to be as talented as Dri Archer? How do we know they didn’t draft JJ Artega-Whiteside and Jalen Reagor? Then your hanging Trubisky or Pickett out to dry with nothing but Freiermuth and whatever Claypool shows up…wasting another year or the defenses life giving players “reps”.
    And that is what makes this an interesting discussion for me. The unknown. The risk/reward of it. What if it turns out DJ, Pickens, and Austin become the greatest 3 wide to ever play? What if Claypool and Boykin turn into the next great combo? But from a business side these guys are also tradeable commodities that have a fluctuating value. No guarantee if that value goes up or down.

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    Re: Trade Speculation

    The way I see it, you don't shell out the big bucks for a guy who "might" turn into a big-time WR, you do it for a guy you're sure will - and even then only if the deal makes sense.

    DJ is still in the "might" category, and if he goes into the "sure" category, he'll likely sign elsewhere anyway and we'll be left with our dicks in our hands, hoping the league gives us a mid-round pick two years from now. We already have his replacement on the roster, and we're no strangers to finding talented WRs in the draft every couple years and plugging them in. At this point, he is less exciting to me than several other young WRs we've had and eventually lost most of. We'll live.

    Also, banking on the compensatory pick is stupid. There's no guarantee we get anything - it'll just as likely turn out to be a 5th-rounder or no pick at all, because of course it will. So many guys come and go every year that it's basically going to be blind chance, and if we get anything at all, you might as well chalk it up to random luck.
    See you Space Cowboy ...

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    Senior Member Array title="Orion has a reputation beyond repute"> Orion's Avatar

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    Re: Trade Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
    This sounds like you are just getting into a vicious cycle of playing young guys and never winning.

    It doesn’t make any sense to go into a season with that thought. What if Pickens and Austin turn out to be as talented as Dri Archer? How do we know they didn’t draft JJ Artega-Whiteside and Jalen Reagor? Then your hanging Trubisky or Pickett out to dry with nothing but Freiermuth and whatever Claypool shows up…wasting another year or the defenses life giving players “reps”.
    so do you think this roster right now is a realistic SB contender ?
    keep in mind probably 75% of steeler fans assigned a large portion of the offensive woes last year on Canada and wanted him fired.
    myself personally i reserved judgement because of what he had to work with. how would the Sistine Chapel look if Micheal Angelo didnt have a paint brush and just used his fingers ? im not predicting canada will be a good coordinator...just saying.
    i believe there are still too many unknowns to predict anything more than a playoff spot. unless trubisky and canada has been sand bagging thus far in their careers , predicting anything greater is just homerism.
    so we keep DJ this year, go 10-7 , make the playoffs and lose 1st round , he has another 100 catch 1000 yard season, wants more than the steelers are willing to pay so they let him walk. now they are in the SAME situation except they know less about this years rookies because they got less playing time. they draft ANOTHER 2nd or 3rd round receiver, and sign ANOTHER underachieving vet for cheap how is that better ? is that not just another "viscous cycle" ?

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    Re: Trade Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    so do you think this roster right now is a realistic SB contender ?
    keep in mind probably 75% of steeler fans assigned a large portion of the offensive woes last year on Canada and wanted him fired.
    myself personally i reserved judgement because of what he had to work with. how would the Sistine Chapel look if Micheal Angelo didnt have a paint brush and just used his fingers ? im not predicting canada will be a good coordinator...just saying.
    i believe there are still too many unknowns to predict anything more than a playoff spot. unless trubisky and canada has been sand bagging thus far in their careers , predicting anything greater is just homerism.
    so we keep DJ this year, go 10-7 , make the playoffs and lose 1st round , he has another 100 catch 1000 yard season, wants more than the steelers are willing to pay so they let him walk. now they are in the SAME situation except they know less about this years rookies because they got less playing time. they draft ANOTHER 2nd or 3rd round receiver, and sign ANOTHER underachieving vet for cheap how is that better ? is that not just another "viscous cycle" ?
    There are so many “ifs” that if they all lined up, this team could be as good as any in the league.

    If all these “ifs” everyone is throwing around workout, Chase Claypool reaches his potential, Kenny Pickett or Trubisky become and NFL QB, the O-Line becomes a Top-10 line…what’s going to stop them?

    What if Canada’s super cool offense is ground breaking?

    Stranger shit has happened in the NFL.

    None of that will probably happen but as an NFL franchise, you can’t think that maybe we should trade a guy now and just call this a “rep year” to set up for 2023. What if Pickens blows out a knee during his reps? Then you’re going to throw Pickett out there throwing to Claypool and a bunch of mediocre what ifs? Welcome to Cleveland…

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

  29. #29
    Senior Member Array title="teegre has a reputation beyond repute"> teegre's Avatar

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    Re: Trade Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by Istina View Post
    I'd take the 2nd and be happy going into next year's draft. The Steelers don't typically pay WRs top dollar, McLaurin is getting something like 23 million per year with similar stats to Johnson so that is probably his starting point for negotiations. If someone would give the Steelers a 2nd for Johnson they have to consider taking the trade because its doubtful that they sign him next year to an even bigger contract. If he walks, they'll probably get a 3rd round comp pick which is essentially an early round 4 pick. Take the 2nd, move on and hope the newly drafted WRs turn out to be really good.
    ^^^pretty much this^^^

    This does NOT mean that I’m giving up on this season. I think drafting TWO receivers in the first four picks was a sign that they were preparing for DJ to possibly hold out. He hasn’t said that, but since the Steelers are prepared for DJ not being on the team, they “could” to trade him.

    Pick 100 versus Pick 50 is HUGE​.

    Plus, as steelreserve said, you know that someone will find a way to drop that R3 comp pick from R3 to R4 (or even R5). So, take a R2… and go with Claypool, Muth, and the two rookies.

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    Re: Trade Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
    This sounds like you are just getting into a vicious cycle of playing young guys and never winning.

    It doesn’t make any sense to go into a season with that thought. What if Pickens and Austin turn out to be as talented as Dri Archer? How do we know they didn’t draft JJ Artega-Whiteside and Jalen Reagor? Then your hanging Trubisky or Pickett out to dry with nothing but Freiermuth and whatever Claypool shows up…wasting another year or the defenses life giving players “reps”.
    This year will tell us a lot. If Pickett, Austin and Pickens are all what they can be then DJ is expendable and you roll with them and Claypool as your starting three going forward especially if DJ wants a Brinks truck worth of money. If our three new players struggle then you have to pay DJ and fix the holes again. But if DJ and Pickens/Austin dominate this year then you let Claypool walk or trade him after the season. We have two QB's for cheap the next few years so now is the window to do something. Let's hope Pickett turns into Burrow and we make a run in the next few years like the Bengals did this year.

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