Russia vs Ukraine

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

disinformation campaign...hmmmm...like Saddams weapons of mass distruction ? lets be real here. Putin has long way to go to catch up with the US and NATO body count.
remember that afghan wedding obama droned ? or the yemen wedding he droned ? ?








here's a recent one for Obiden

[willy]

Putin didnt concern anyone while Trump was leader. Hmmm. Except for Romney who was laughed at by Obama. You can thank sleepy Joe for another atrocity.

Yeah, dumb shit, the war is Biden's fault.

[Mach1]

[Orion]

[willy]

Can't get more moronic than that.

[Orion]

[Mach1]

Can't get more moronic than that.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

US Citizen from Minnesota enlisting to fight in Ukraine as part of their Foreign Legion. Brave guy and definitely not a comrade of Putin like some US citizens.

[willy]

I'm sorry, this is even more moronic.

[Orion]

[Fire Goodell]

No idea what Orion is posting but it's probably brainless memes and nothing to add to the discussion

[cubanstogie]

Yeah, dumb shit, the war is Biden's fault.

You think it’s a coincidence that he waited til sleepys watch? Lmfao , you Biden voters are accountable. Freaking idiots.no way this happens if Trump in office.

- - - Updated - - -

No idea what Orion is posting but it's probably brainless memes and nothing to add to the discussion

Sounds more like Tom!

[Mojouw]

No idea what Orion is posting but it's probably brainless memes and nothing to add to the discussion

There's a shocking amount of "interesting" takes in here.

Somehow "owning the libs" justifies the support of an anti-democratic autocracy invading a sovereign democratic country.

We're really far down the rabbit hole here.

[Mach1]

The U.S. should adopt this policy.

Ukrainians Are Shrink-Wrapping Looters to Electric Poles, Sometimes ... Without Their Pants

While men are taking up arms and grandmothers are making bombs, some in Ukraine have been looting. As we've seen in this country, sometimes people use chaos as an excuse to steal things. Unlike in this country, where excuses are made for the looting, Ukrainian looters find themselves wrapped around metal poles and shamed

Occasionally, the looter will have their pants removed. Because when you are taking advantage of the start of World War III to steal while your fellow countrymen fight, sometimes being wrapped in cellophane like you were just purchased from eBay isn't embarrassing enough.

https://www.louderwithcrowder.com/uk...-looters-pants

[willy]

.............................no way this happens if Trump in office.

Right, Trump would have just given it to him.

[Orion]

[Orion]

[Mojouw]

You think it’s a coincidence that he waited til sleepys watch? Lmfao , you Biden voters are accountable. Freaking idiots.no way this happens if Trump in office.

Like when Trump withheld and delayed $400 million in military aid to Ukraine for months because Zelensky wouldn't investigate Hunter Biden? That was when the Ukraine was engaged in low-level combat with Putin's forces in the south.
Like when Trump did Putin's job for him by repeatedly stating that he would leave NATO?

There is plenty of blame to go around here on all American sides of the political spectrum. And, unfortunately, there really isn't much that any American President can do aside from sanctions and scolding. Any military action would likely engage all of NATO in combat against Russia, something that zero world leaders are willing to consider.

Which is why I asked earlier what I am missing from this argument? What could this or any other President do? Are people actually "wanting" military intervention?

[Mach1]

Like when Trump withheld and delayed $400 million in military aid to Ukraine for months because Zelensky wouldn't investigate Hunter Biden? That was when the Ukraine was engaged in low-level combat with Putin's forces in the south.
Like when Trump did Putin's job for him by repeatedly stating that he would leave NATO?

There is plenty of blame to go around here on all American sides of the political spectrum. And, unfortunately, there really isn't much that any American President can do aside from sanctions and scolding. Any military action would likely engage all of NATO in combat against Russia, something that zero world leaders are willing to consider.

Which is why I asked earlier what I am missing from this argument? What could this or any other President do? Are people actually "wanting" military intervention?

He could have sent them blankets?

I don't think anyone wants to send troops in right now. There is plenty a president could have done to prevent this whole thing from happening. Selling and sending weapons for example, not blankets. Pedo Joes weakness is not helping much either.

Sorry, Joe: Team Obama refused to arm Ukraine at all

Team Obama feared that lethal aid would provoke Moscow.

So what did the administration give him? Instead of rocket-propelled grenades, we provided food rations. As one frustrated former Pentagon official put it at the time, “What kind of message does that send anyway?”

Answer: a message of weakness

When Trump took office, he delivered a message of strength. In December 2017, the new administration announced that the United States would send the lethal aid to Ukraine that Poroshenko requested and Obama and Biden refused — the sale of $47 million worth of Javelin antitank missiles.

In May 2018, after Ukraine tested its new Javelin missiles, Poroshenko exulted on Twitter “Finally this day has come!” and personally thanked Trump “for supporting Ukraine and adopting a decision to provide Javelin antitank missile systems.”

For Biden to now attack Trump for a temporary delay in a new round of lethal military aid reeks of hypocrisy. It was on Biden’s watch that the United States refused to deliver military aid at all. Yet the same vice president who sat there impassively while Ukraine’s president begged for weapons now dares to cite the Russian threat to Ukraine in castigating Trump?

https://nypost.com/2019/10/09/sorry-...kraine-at-all/

[Mojouw]

OK....so if sending anti-tank missiles is the key deterrent here...how come Russia invaded? Ukraine was prior to the invasion and certainly now, receiving military aid from a variety of places (we aren't the only folks that invented an anti-tank munition).

Again...it wasn't just munitions that were potentially holding Putin off. His main objective is to weaken, divide, and, ideally, dissolve NATO. The previous administration was actively talking about a US withdrawal from NATO and significant speculation that action would have been a key part of the second Trump term. That might've played a bit of a roll.

This is a military and a leader that thought they could capture Ukraine in a matter of hours with overwhelming speed and force (remember shock and awe?). I suspect that "three guys and a jeep" anti-tank doctrines were not what was holding them off from doing it.

And this isn't some "blame Trump" thing either. Other than active combat operations, I believe there is little an American President could have done to put an end to this. Besides dropping bombs, when has anyone ever stopped anyone else from invading their neighbors once that decision has been made?

[Mach1]

The decision was made when pedo joe took office. As mush as it burns your ass to admit it, if trump was still in office this wouldn't be happening.

[Mojouw]

The decision was made when pedo joe took office. As mush as it burns your ass to admit it, if trump was still in office this wouldn't be happening.

I really don't care. Maybe it was. Maybe it wasn't.

I was interested to see what the thoughts and rationale were behind the point of view expressed by yourself and others. And, it doesn't seem to be something that anyone can articulate.

Or certainly not maintain a conversation about. It is a shame because these are important issues and will be almost certainly part of American politics for the next decade plus.

[willy]

If somebody's going to give you a car obviously you wouldn't need to steal one:

A Second Trump Term Would Not Have Stopped Putin From Invading Ukraine

...............................................sni p.....................................


The only conceivable reason Putin wouldn't have invaded Ukraine under a second Trump term is that it very likely wouldn't have been necessary—with such an obsequious president who was seemingly hellbent on undermining or even withdrawing the U.S. entirely from NATO. This defense alliance, initially created to curb the expansion of the Soviet Union further into Europe, has remained the bane of Russia's existence as it has expanded east in recent years. Every time NATO adds former members of the old Soviet Union, the influence of Russia is further diminished

https://www.newsweek.com/second-trum...pinion-1682807

[willy]

[Mach1]

I really don't care. Maybe it was. Maybe it wasn't.

I was interested to see what the thoughts and rationale were behind the point of view expressed by yourself and others. And, it doesn't seem to be something that anyone can articulate.

Or certainly not maintain a conversation about. It is a shame because these are important issues and will be almost certainly part of American politics for the next decade plus.

I don't know what kind of answer your looking for. But I think you answered your own question. There isn't any good solution to this, no magic reset button.
It all depends on how far russia plans on going. Far enough to trigger article 5 of nato and wwIII?

- - - Updated - - -

Here’s Jen Psaki hugging Russia's Foreign Minister and Russia’s chief foreign affairs propagandist while wearing a pink hammer and sickle hat.

[willy]

Here’s Jen Psaki hugging Russia's Foreign Minister and Russia’s chief foreign affairs propagandist while wearing a pink hammer and sickle hat.

Trump sucking up to Putin in front of the whole world.

[steelreserve]

What could a U.S. president do to end the fighting? If he thinks Putin is bluffing about the nukes, send a small group of special forces to Kiev as "advisors" to the Ukrainian army. Then it changes the situation to: Stop shooting or you'll hit us too, and neither of us really wants to find out what happens next - your move, Russia. Of course, that's IF you know he's bluffing, but I'm not so sure he hasn't completely lost his shit, so probably not a highly recommended roll of the dice.

The real time to do this would have been weeks or months BEFORE the invasion. That effectively makes it toxic to try and invade in the first place. The Baltic states, for example, have been eager to host U.S. troops for that reason pretty much since their independence, and Russia has left them alone. I'd say that was a super-smart move, especially since they share a lot of the same characteristics that made a good excuse for invading Ukraine. So in that respect, I think both the U.S./EU and Ukraine dropped the ball on that, especially after the first invasion years ago.

If there is one thing going for us, it is that Eastern Europeans remember Russian rule, and they will not stop fighting even if they only have knives. So even just keeping them supplied with weapons for a proxy war would go a long way.

[Mojouw]

What could a U.S. president do to end the fighting? If he thinks Putin is bluffing about the nukes, send a small group of special forces to Kiev as "advisors" to the Ukrainian army. Then it changes the situation to: Stop shooting or you'll hit us too, and neither of us really wants to find out what happens next - your move, Russia. Of course, that's IF you know he's bluffing, but I'm not so sure he hasn't completely lost his shit, so probably not a highly recommended roll of the dice.

The real time to do this would have been weeks or months BEFORE the invasion. That effectively makes it toxic to try and invade in the first place. The Baltic states, for example, have been eager to host U.S. troops for that reason pretty much since their independence, and Russia has left them alone. I'd say that was a super-smart move, especially since they share a lot of the same characteristics that made a good excuse for invading Ukraine. So in that respect, I think both the U.S./EU and Ukraine dropped the ball on that, especially after the first invasion years ago.

If there is one thing going for us, it is that Eastern Europeans remember Russian rule, and they will not stop fighting even if they only have knives. So even just keeping them supplied with weapons for a proxy war would go a long way.

Reasonable response with some potential actionable items.

What I hope is that the EU starts to realize that it actually needs defense spending by its member states and, additionally, it needs to deploy elements of member state's militaries outside of their borders more frequently. It can not and should not always be US troops. And, for better or worse, the rest of Europe really needs to start getting "okay" with Germany selling arms and stationing troops places. They are the one EU country both willing and financially able to pull that off.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't know what kind of answer your looking for. But I think you answered your own question. There isn't any good solution to this, no magic reset button.
It all depends on how far russia plans on going. Far enough to trigger article 5 of nato and wwIII?

I have no idea what the answer I, or anyone else is looking for. If I did, I would likely have a wall of Nobel's.

But, what I am trying to understand is how you (or anyone) can seemingly be so sure that Trump (or, again, any POTUS) would have prevented this but then are also seemingly certain there are no good solutions without WW III as an outcome. I don't understand how those things are both true. One seems to contradict the other.

I think Obama didn't handle this well. I think Trump didn't handle this well. I think Biden is not handling it well. Mostly because the sheer existence of nuclear weapons and the nature of the NATO treaty prevents the US President from doing most direct action types of things.

If Russia wasn't a nuclear power and shooting at them wouldn't cause a pan-European conflict, one could clamp a "No Fly Zone" over the Ukraine and call this a day.

[steelreserve]

Reasonable response with some potential actionable items.

What I hope is that the EU starts to realize that it actually needs defense spending by its member states and, additionally, it needs to deploy elements of member state's militaries outside of their borders more frequently. It can not and should not always be US troops. And, for better or worse, the rest of Europe really needs to start getting "okay" with Germany selling arms and stationing troops places. They are the one EU country both willing and financially able to pull that off.

Much as I would like to see the U.S. shed some of its duties as the "world's policeman," I just don't know that it would have the same effect. If there were a couple thousand German troops, or Dutch troops, or EU troops or whatever, stationed in a country, would that make a military strongman blink an eye? I don't know.

There are really only two or three places around the world where this even applies - Europe and Central Asia as a deterrent against Russia, and Japan/Korea/Taiwan as deterrent against China. And I guess maybe the Middle East, if you count stepping between whatever assholes are stirring up the conflict of the week there.

In the first two cases, I would not be that surprised if a guy like Putin or Xi looked at a European force and said, "meh. They're probably not going to do anything worse than yell at me even if I do attack." It's really only the U.S. that they have to worry about - and part of that is because we're the only ones who have shown that we're actually willing to fight if it comes down to it. Much as I dislike the wars of the past 20 years, if not for that, they'd probably look at us like a bunch of wankers too.

As for the Middle East, there are so many crazy mofos who will fight anyone just because they don't give a fuck, that I'd just as soon leave that to anyone else who is willing. That's the one place where our allies could actually help pick up the slack.

[Mach1]

Russian business tycoon places $1 million bounty on Putin's head as attacks in Ukraine escalate

A U.S.-based Russian businessman and investor has announced that he's placed a $1 million bounty on Russian President Vladimir Putin's head.
What are the details?

In a Tuesday Facebook post, Alex Konanykhin called on Russian military officers to arrest Putin as a war criminal. Their reward? One million dollars.

In his post, Konanykhin wrote, "I promise to pay $1,000,000 to the officer(s) who, complying with their constitutional duty, arrest(s) Putin as a war criminal under Russian and international laws."

"Putin," he continued, "is not the Russian president as he came to power as the result of a special operation of blowing up apartment buildings in Russia, then violated the Constitution by eliminating free elections and murdering his opponents."

He concluded, "As an ethnic Russian and a Russia citizen, I see it as my moral duty to facilitate the denazification of Russia. I will continue my assistance to Ukraine in its heroic efforts to withstand the onslaught of Putin's Orda."

https://www.theblaze.com/news/russia...on-putins-head