Here's a better question: Who cares?Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson
Idiots and insufferable know-it-alls, that's who.
Nothing should ever be done in the name of appeasing them, it will just encourage them to keep trying to ruin everything.
Here's a better question: Who cares?
Idiots and insufferable know-it-alls, that's who.
Nothing should ever be done in the name of appeasing them, it will just encourage them to keep trying to ruin everything.
See you Space Cowboy ...
I don't buy that analogy. If the Native Americans had been able to carve out a successful viable nation in North America there'd still be the Washington redskins, KC Chiefs and Cleveland Indians. Teams chose those names for the fighting spirit of the Native American's. They didn't choose the names as a joke. And sorry, your wrong, it is just a game. No one is making fun of anything except in the imagination of a few overly sensitive people like you. You don't like the name? fine, don't root for the team, but don't force your beliefs on the rest of us. Curious, ever write to the NFL about your dissatisfaction about the Redskins or Chiefs names in the past? Or did you just lately get on board the PC train?Just imagine that in 1890, that 20 million Chinese people came to the USA and took over, colonized the white european immigrants and became the majority race in North America. Then things evolved to the point where they had a professional Basketball or Soccer league, where some of the more successful teams were the Washington Whitefaces, the Houston Roundeyes and the New York Americans.
They had some mascots of fat white guys with a cheeseburger in their hands, bald and angry white men with a cigar in their mouths shaking their fists, etc. How do you think that white people would feel about those team names, mascots and imagery?
The Chinese people that colonized the US would just say "its just a game" and "we named the team after Xi "Roundeye" Chang, who was the mayor and had really round eyes for a Chinese man. I guess a lot of posters on this board would likely be OK being a minority race in a country where their ancestors were treated as mascots.
I love how the Nanny Police are so intent on PC and Sports Team's name changes but when it comes to the economic struggles of the middle class, soaring inflation and house prices, skyrocketing crime, or bombings of innocent people abroad (some of these ethnicities probably won't make it out of the 21st century) - they don't seem to give a shit.
Last edited by Steeler-in-west; 02-06-2022 at 02:49 AM.
As a round eyed, white faced American, I find none of those names offensive. Just like the Indians surveyed didn’t find the Redskins offensive or the Indians offensive. Maybe some African American Karen’s would start a movement to rid the Chinese of those team names.Just imagine that in 1890, that 20 million Chinese people came to the USA and took over, colonized the white european immigrants and became the majority race in North America. Then things evolved to the point where they had a professional Basketball or Soccer league, where some of the more successful teams were the Washington Whitefaces, the Houston Roundeyes and the New York Americans.
They had some mascots of fat white guys with a cheeseburger in their hands, bald and angry white men with a cigar in their mouths shaking their fists, etc. How do you think that white people would feel about those team names, mascots and imagery?
The Chinese people that colonized the US would just say "its just a game" and "we named the team after Xi "Roundeye" Chang, who was the mayor and had really round eyes for a Chinese man. I guess a lot of posters on this board would likely be OK being a minority race in a country where their ancestors were treated as mascots.
More offensive than the team names are the chants that are done by the Braves, Chiefs and Seminoles fans along with the tomahawk chop...
Depends on who you surveyed.
There’s a ton of surveys out there that indicate 60+% of Native Americans are offended by the name and more by the chants.
You can also get survey results indicating that no one cares.
It all depends on how you survey, who you survey, and how you define group membership. And defining membership among native and indigenous groups is a difficult, contentious, and unsettled issue.
Bottom line is that it’s really difficult to get survey data from Native Americans. They represent less than 2% of the population. And they’re not a unified community. Massive differences based on tribal affiliation, living on a res or not, and the standard other socio-economic factors that prevent it from being possible to say what “Hispanic” or “black” or “white” people ALL think.
Plus Snyder could’ve kept the name. But he decided the PR and $$$ were better this way.
No one forced him. The market, as one owner saw it, spoke. Isn’t that how it’s supposed to work?
True. So basically 50/50. At that point why bother changing the name unless the one 50 is louder than the other?
Or unless you have a whole other situation going on in house that you would need a distraction from like a “me too” type scandal or something worse…the. It makes sense to change it as a distraction from said issue…
I think that is why Snyder did it now rather than years ago or years from now.
His house is dirty, toxic, and starting to leak. He's likely not going to be the owner for long.
I figure that all teams should be planning for moving off these names and mascots at some point. Younger generations, both native and non-native, are starting to align on the idea that these names and mascots are less than ideal.
Seems that capitalism doesn't care what anyone over 30 thinks on anything. It is all about those "new" customers. Kinda like cable companies...
I guess the Pfizers was taken (by Congress)?
Seriously the owner should have just changed his logo to a Redskin potato and said, "There problem solved."
The way it's supposed to work is that no one listens to a bunch of freaks just because they never shut up.
Liberals only invoke "the market" the same way they invoke Jesus. "I have nothing but scorn and contempt for your point of view, but I will throw out a 'Jesus would have said X,' or a 'that's how the free market works, cope' every once in a while and maybe you will do what I say."
You have to remember that, here in the real world, where people can see that a dog is still a dog, and a cat is still a cat, and bullshit is still bullshit - that kind of shallow switcheroo doesn't earn you any points, and people aren't taken in by the same disingenious mind games liberals play on themselves, and they don't appreciate it.
See you Space Cowboy ...
The pressure to change these names for years came from small groups, making less than 10 percent of people with Native American heritage (from what I know there are no full blooded Native Americans left in the US). All that changed after the Floyd killing and the wave of statues and flags being removed. Walmart and Nike started pulling Redskin merchandise from their shelves and Snyder got a lot of increased pressure. Loss of revenue talks…
definitely seems most kids are more liberal these days. That’s the trend, Schools have a big hand in that
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If the owner of the Redskins/WFT/Commanders changes the name of his team every 5-10 years that's his business. If he bent to economic pressure, peer pressure from other owners each for their own reasons, some change of heart or conviction on how important is the name exactly, whatever....it's ok. Everything will be ok.
It will be ok, but you still shouldn't listen to freaks.
Plus, look at some of the other things those same freaks have done. Those are not so ok.
Basically: Fuck them and everything they want, forever.
See you Space Cowboy ...
No one forced Snyder to do anything. He got worried about the loss of revenue and the fact that he is most likely guilty of naughty weiner stuff caused him to decide to make a change.
The Chiefs aren't thinking of doing the same because they sell out a massive stadium every home game, are appearing in SBs, and none of their top franchise officials are purported sex criminals that are allowing raw sewage to flow through the stadium on game days.
Oddly enough...they don't feel any pressure to change snot.
Snyder wasn't pressured into anything by anyone...he is a multi-billionaire that took the lowest up-front cost change to try to improve public perception of his crap-fest of a franchise.
It is straight out of the "bad responses to basic economics by a rich guy who thinks the luck he had once will keep happening again" playbook.
Snyder's a moron doing moron things. I wouldn't read the decay of modern society into it.
Native Americans have been super pissed about this issues for decades. No one reported on it for a long time because when the people who care are not watching the news or subscribing to your newspaper...the story doesn't get covered. And honestly, most Native groups have kinda taken a pass on this issue because they have bigger problems that are being ignored, dismissed, and remain unaddressed.
If all these groups that are so into "honoring Native peoples" really gave a crap...they would help tribal groups get the various bills and laws passed that would address the crisis in murdered and missing indigenous women. A non-native can commit various crimes, including murder, on reservation lands, leave, and be protected from investigation and persecution by jurisdictional restrictions. It is sad and gross.
Anyways....random rant over.
And "kids" get more liberal every generation. That's been going on since there was time and people. My parents thought my peers were more liberal than they were when we were in college. I teach college students currently and they seem comically liberal. You can read people in like the ancient Babylonian times making the same comments about goofy liberal youngings doing silly stuff.
Well I certainly wouldn't call it progress.
See you Space Cowboy ...
Maybe not. Maybe it is. I have no idea.
I know that I wouldn't be super keen on sports teams called the "Daegos, Micks, Wops, Honkies, or Peckerwoods"...always thought the elimination of racial slurs from the names of stuff was a reasonable goal.
The Chiefs, The Braves. Those are slurs? The Indians maybe, but even that is innocuous, IMO.
Why do so many high schools around the country still have those names? Just in my area we have the Indians, Warriors, Appaches, Mowhawks, Braves, Chieftons, Redmen, Redskins, Seminoles and Senacas. When do high schools have to change names... or is it just pro teams?
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The highschool I graduated from was called the Rebels. Today they are the Wolverines. Stupid Empire!
Never said they were.
Redskins is absolutely a slur. Redmen is pretty bad as well.
Indians, Braves, Chiefs, Seminole, Warriors, etc are less blatantly offensive and certainly cover far more of unclear middle ground.
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I think the point of where do you draw the line is the main objective. Having a Native American mascot and calling yourself the Redskins or Redmen is going to get a lot of pushback. That's straight up a racial slur by every definition. Being a Chief or a Warrior or a Brave or even the name of a tribe doesn't carry nearly the same controversy, at least in my mind. If the Seminoles had had an issue with FSU, then FSU would have changed. But it is representative of that people and a proud thing for that tribe. The problems lie in that the vast majority of people crying and fussing over the names don't even have a claim themselves other than 'somebody might be offended'. In this case they should just move along and mind their own business, again my opinion. To me it's no different than the Spartans, Aztecs, or Cowboys.
FSU, Vancouver Canucks, and Seattle Seahawks are all sports teams that use Native American names and/or imagery but have entered into a proactive and positive relationship with local indigenous communities that provide a "seat at the table" and allow marginalized voices to be heard and actually listened to. Honestly, it seems that whenever a sports team actually tries (and this usually requires like zero actual effort) buy-in from tribal groups is usually readily given. Seems that it can be rewarding for all parties.
I'm curious, outside of social media...where does all this vocal discussion about sports mascots take place? I never see it outside of tribal activism spaces and this message board. I suspect that it is because I avoid the spaces that all the shouting takes place in but....everyone seems to feel there is a vocal outcry against all this...wondering where it takes place.
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Not sure the 100% true answer but I remember 'Redskins' backlash in the 80s. So pre-internet at least.
Usually it starts with some liberal columnist or commentator white-knighting for some cause that s/he has nothing to to do with. A little bitching and moaning in the media is all it takes to get a high school or college to change its name, especially since guess which kind of people usually run high schools and colleges. I would say this one is almost an entirely media-driven cause. And a real softball in that all they usually have to do is nudge the issue toward school administrators who welcome it with open arms. With pro teams it's understandably more difficult, but of course given the higher profile, more media activists jump on the dogpile.
As you said, very few people are actually affected by it, and even fewer care very much. But it is certainly possible to leverage the power of a media platform to make "pressure" materialize out of thin air. One of the reasons why that profession attracts so many liberal crazies. It gives them an oversized mouthpiece for their activism without the hard work of accomplishing anything important, which is the usual way of acquiring influence; and it simultaneously is a great way of stroking their massive egos so they can feel like
See you Space Cowboy ...
So no one is talking about it but there’s irresistible pressure?
This seems to go in an odd circle.
I suspect there’s only two groups of people who really care about this. Actual native peoples and angry radicalized dudes on the internet.
I’ll never understand why people like to get angry when an oppressed group tells you you’re being offensive. What’s the vested interest in being a prejudiced clod? Not saying that’s what anyone here is or is doing but many sputtering away about the issues just seem to want to be able to say offensive stuff because it makes them feel good.
Like the previous poster said, Native American groups have been telling the rest of this is offensive for 4 decades at least. Seems like a fairly consistent thing that’s pretty easy to listen to.
It falls under the category of "a sad commentary." People in favor of things like this tend to be in favor of other things that are a lot worse.
Angry radicalized dudes mostly seem to be in favor of changing team names, so not sure I see your point?
See you Space Cowboy ...
No, only a small minority group has been pissed about this for decades. This issue just got absorbed into the recent PC - cancel culture and companies that support the pro teams are getting onboard
Fans are honoring the fighting spirit when cheering for their team. Just because they do that doesn't mean they should be obligated to support Native American organizations although it would be good if they did. Those that claim to support the common folk (the democrats mainly) are obligated to do that. But they seem more concerned about imposing cultural changes, demonizing the right and anyone who questions they're stances. Where are the cries from people like AOC or Pelosi about combating inflation, regulating banks again, bringing manufacturing jobs back to the US (including to Indian Reservations)....crickets.....
Regarding liberalism, I don't think this is a normal generation to generation thing, our kids have taken the liberal thing to a whole knew stratospheric level, for instance, they won’t even eat beef because cows harm the environment, and this is not just a couple or a few kids, its all over the place and it’s all coming from public school.
That’s rough on the beef thing. Try meeting them where they’re at right now? I hate approaching sustainability with the position that you have to stop doing x because it is currently bad for z. That’s just ignoring the entire history of humans. We just figure out better ways of doing stuff. Many beef suppliers are now raising animals in a way that goes beyond carbon neutral and actually ends up being a carbon sink. Can’t remember who it was. But I bet the American Beef council lists it online.
Reminds me of when my brother and I made my parents get rid of aerosols and styrofoam!!
You try to support kids in this because it is tied to health but its expensive; forget 'organic' that doesn't mean anything to them, it has to be grass fed beef (more expensive) so cows don't release harmful gasses into the atmosphere....makes your head spin, I just don't hear anything coming from the schools about not drinking sodas, or sweets, balanced meals, keep a healthy weight, pinch an inch, all that....that's not PC either i guess
Redskin isn’t a slur either, but that’s jut my opinion.
who are the commanders anyway? The commander in chief or ‘the commanders’ in Washington? Doesn’t seem completely innocent
Fortunately not there on the home front, but I feel your pain. The info on the sustainability front is typically super prospective one size fits none nonsense. It’s possible to do it but for too many, the market isn’t there yet so everything is grossly over expensive.
We’re all gonna be eating lab grown synth meat in some Matrix style future soon anyways!
I guess no one in the D.C. liked my idea of the Washington Hard Rs. Oh well, I guess that I will try to persuade Clark Hunt.
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