far to subjective for meOriginally Posted by Orion
far to subjective for me
Kenny Pickett is who I though he was .. Eagles problem now
I put O'Donnell in the range as somebody that is like Cousins is today. Good serviceable QB that isnt going to be a Pro Bowler or MVP candidate, but give him a defense and run game and you can contend.
Kordell was a better athlete than a QB, but when he really worked on his game as a pocket passer, he improved, although he was never consistent in his mechanics and decision making, so accuracy and decision making in the clutch was never at the point that he could pass the team to victory if needed.
Both I would take any day over Mason Rudolph, but I would consider O'Donnell the better pro style QB and Stewart more in the Bob Griffin 3rd category of better athlete than QB.
sure anything that is debatable is subjective. you can check it against your own opinion by looking back 20 years in draft history and count how many you would call busts.
https://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/positions/qb
its been said to death but to this day I can not help but wonder if Bill Cowher would have used Kordell for his natural ability instead of trying to force him into being something he wasn't how that would have worked out ...
Imagine Kordell in his prime in a system such as the Ravens use Lamar ( or whomever else they put under center )
I feel like Kordell was a better passer than Lamar and as a runner every bit as dangerous
Kenny Pickett is who I though he was .. Eagles problem now
Yeah, the hand size thing was a concern for me, but I think he throws the ball really well wearing gloves. He is a good athlete and always on the balls of his feet in the pocket, not flat footed like Rudolph gets. Makes quick decisons and gets thru reads quick from what I can see.
The point of he was "just a guy" until some point is what causes some hesitation. So a guy wasnt touted much out of highschool, he has small hands and an OK arm, but then starts to suddenly put up yardage. How much is his improvement as a QB and how much is his taking to the system he was in at college. Could be Derek Carr, could be Josh Heupel or Chris Weinke.
I still like what I see from Pickett, but it will be interesting to see how he fares at the Senior Bowl under the Jets coaching staff and outside of his Pitt coaches.
The impact of the 5th year option seems to be missing from the posted analysis.
The ability to get 5 cost controlled years from a QB has pushed more guys than ever into the first round of the draft. And further, has driven more teams to get their guy early in the first round because the days of trading back into the low end of the first round and snatching a guy might just be behind us.
Does it change the results of the posted study? No idea...but it certainly is a big influence of team decision making. Or at least several things I have read over the past couple of years seem to say it is.
...was just a guy until his redshirt year , that is something I just do not trust its liken to a contract year for me ....
Kenny Pickett is who I though he was .. Eagles problem now
?
I meant the one about QB draft position numbers.
Agree what you were saying about Pickett...
seeing as they both were taken in the 2nd and 3rd round, i would say they were both hits. We got to the Super Bowl with one and the AFCCG and divisional round with the other.
I think Kordell was faster than Lamar. I agree about being a better passer too. I don't know who's idea it was to try to make him a pure pocket passer but it was a bad decision - he needed to keep that threat to run to be an effective passer. I think the desire to be great was there, he just needed good coaching.
I agree about them both being ahead of MR, i would say they were 3a and 3b after Terry and Ben. MR is Bubby Brister at this point, maybe with lesser arm strength.
I disagree that it was a bad decision to try and improve Kordell as a pocket passer. I still dont know of any QB who is a better runner than passer, who has lead his team to a Super Bowl win. Not Tarkenton, not Cunningham, Kaepernick, Vick, Jackson, Bobby Douglass, Bob Griffin, Lamar Jackson, Vince Young.
If you want your QB to run the ball a lot, you are asking to have your QB hit a lot and miss time due to injuries. DB's and LB's love when a QB takes his eyes down from his receivers and starts to run, because you just have to rally to the ball and get a hit on him.
I still enjoyed watching KS in the 90's and he took a real step to being an efficient passer one year, but in the end I dont think he could handle the pressure of being the franchise QB and making mistakes. I think he starting playing with the fear of making more mistakes and INT's and it sank his confidence.
Rudolph I would not compare to Brister. That is a slight on Brister, who I think played in a Divisional round or AFCCG. Rudolph hasnt shown in his 4 years that he can be more productive than Kent Graham. I honestly feel that Bruce Gradkowski had better grasp of the passing game in the NFL than Mason Rudolph has shown to this point.
Steve young you could argue was a better runner, although he was a good passer too. You could say Kordell could’ve aspired to something like that, with more speed and maybe less collisions- but anyway Steve young was successful
Kordell was better early on as slash when he was always a threat to run. He needed to keep that in his Arsenal, he seems like he abandoned that later in his career. I would guess that’s where he lost his confidence- trying to be something he wasnt. He made critical passing mistakes in the AFCCG game against Denver -
as far as MR, he had half a dozen games starting in that year Ben was injured (he was basically a rookie) and he’s had 2 or 3 games to start since then, with some improvement. He’s a third round pick, like Brister. He’s pretty much where a third round pick is supposed to be. Brister to me was average and it known he struggled to read defenses. Let’s see what MR does next year. The more I think about it the more I think it’s a good idea they’re keeping Haskins. It’s an attempt to get these two guys to push each other.
Mel Kiper's Positional Rankings:
Quarterbacks
1. Kenny Pickett, Pitt
2. Malik Willis, Liberty
3. Matt Corral, Ole Miss
4. Desmond Ridder, Cincinnati
5. Sam Howell, North Carolina
6. Carson Strong, Nevada
7. Bailey Zappe, Western Kentucky
8. Kaleb Eleby, Western Michigan
9. Skylar Thompson, Kansas State
10. Dustin Crum, Kent State
Thats cool and all. I know you are just giving info. In the spirit of this thread here is Kiper's rankings from 2017.
QUARTERBACK
1. *Mitch Trubisky, North Carolina
2. **DeShone Kizer, Notre Dame
3. *Deshaun Watson, Clemson
4. *Patrick Mahomes, Texas Tech
5. *Brad Kaaya, Miami (Fla.)
https://www.windycitygridiron.com/20...-nfl-draft-bpa
ouch!
Kiper 2018 is better I think. Something likeouch!
1. Darnold
2. Rosen
3. Allen
4. Jackson
5. Mayfield
6. Rudolph
even I was smart enough to have Mahomes at the top of that list
Kenny Pickett is who I though he was .. Eagles problem now
Array title="DesertSteel has a reputation beyond repute">
If Trevor Lawrence was drafted in the 4th round, would he be a lock to start going into ‘22?
Array title="Born2Steel has a reputation beyond repute">
Tough to answer since I didn't watch any Jags games. By rookie stats alone I think so. But I have no context for his Ints or TDs either.
Array title="DesertSteel has a reputation beyond repute">
Gardner Minshew’s rookie season put Lawrence’s to shame, in every category. It didn’t help him keep the job.
Array title="Born2Steel has a reputation beyond repute">
You gave the caveat of 4th round pick. Did he do poorly enough to lose his job? Again I have no context to go with the stats.
The one stat that bugs me the most is Lawrence was responsible for 26 turnovers. I would sit him for that alone.
Belichick had the goat but drafted a QB ever other year even with Brady there. I think he figured out it’s a crapshoot.
Array title="DesertSteel has a reputation beyond repute">
Right and Minshew, as an example was a 6th. Played for the same team just 3 years apart. Pretty comparable.
As long as we get a center and a RT (and move Green to RG), even if the QB is not a "franchise" QB, if he is an upgrade over what we currently have, I would be happy.
Then, as DesertSteel said, if that rookie QB is only a C+, then we try again next year. And, if that one is only a B-, we try again and again and again... until we get the next Big Ben.
I mean, maybe not in R1 every year. But, I am all for adding a QB in every draft until we nail it.
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